Train is $10 round trip from where I live.

/just sayin

schnarff: BBRModitha: $2?

3.25 in pittsburgh.

pussies

It can get up to $4.50 in the DC area, depending on how far you're going and when you're going there (I got that figure for Vienna - Union Station during rush hour, for any curious DC-area farkers). The sick thing is, if you figure on two people commuting in to the Hill from the just-barely-outside-the-Beltway 'burbs (which is nowhere near the edge of suburban sprawl), you're looking at $22.50 total, between two round-trip rush-hour fares and parking, which is comparable in price to getting a monthly parking space downtown and just driving. Isn't public transit supposed to be cheaper?

Or you can get a 7 day Fastpass for $39. I'm not sure where you're parking in DC that is only $22.50, as an ancient story from 2006 pegs the cost at about $230.

http://www.wmata.com/riding/passes.cfm
http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/stories/2006/07/17/daily36.html?from_rss= 1

the low income drivers don't need to park in Manhattan, they just need to cross the island to get to work without having a 2-3 hour public transport trip each way.

FarkinFarker: I'll never understand the big city mindset. Not only do you guys pay completely retarded amounts of money for tiny apartments, but you'll pay an equally retarded amount of money to park your car, all the while having access to a cheap and functional public transportation system. Not to mention the fact that during the times you're most likely to be driving, you can walk almost as fast as the traffic moves.

FIFY

harlock_jds: the low income drivers don't need to park in Manhattan, they just need to cross the island to get to work without having a 2-3 hour public transport trip each way.

My solution has always been "live closer to where I work."

harlock_jds: the low income drivers don't need to park in Manhattan, they just need to cross the island to get to work without having a 2-3 hour public transport trip each way.

Low income drivers need to find a loser job closer to home.

LordPistachio: T.M.S.: I only pay $550 a month to park in midtown.

You "only" pay more to park your car than I pay in rent. As in rent on my apartment. That I live in.

I live in a city where the income potential is much higher than the rest of the country. That's the offset.

Funk Brothers:
//Besides who needs a farking car in New York City?

I do. Try bringing 1000 pounds of scuba gear on the subway.

In Baltimore, mass transit is pretty pointless for most of the east half of the city, with one north-south light rail line and a subway that starts downtown and shoots off to nowhere. Compare that to nearby DC's system, which I also use once in a while, so in need of federal funds a day-pass can run you like $8.

The moral--Take what you can get.

Considering that NYC has some of the best mass transit options, why would one consider driving in?

When I worked in NY, I did a few times only because there was an emergency at work and I thought driving would be faster.

Driving during peak hours, I don't recall ever getting to the city much faster if I took mass transit.

Metro-North and the LIRR run all the time except for a small window on the overnight and the subways are usually running, getting you close if not right to where you need to be.

aresef: In Baltimore, mass transit is pretty pointless for most of the east half of the city, with one north-south light rail line and a subway that starts downtown and shoots off to nowhere. Compare that to nearby DC's system, which I also use once in a while, so in need of federal funds a day-pass can run you like $8.

The moral--Take what you can get.

$8 for access to the entire DC area is an awesome deal. I'd pay a lot more for the day pass, especially if it meant that the Metro system did not require federal bailouts.

EbolaNYC: Bullshiat. You don't live in this area and have a car if you are low income.

Generally speaking, high rents (aka "gentrification" whatever-t-f that means) travel right down the subway lines to the neighborhoods with decent public transportation. There are huge swathes of Brooklyn and Queens that are poorly served by public transit, and these are usually the neighborhoods that are (somewhat) affordable for low-income residents. Keeping a car is expensive, but if it saves you $500 a month in rent it might be worth it.

(Agree with jacobdev that these are probably not the people commuting to downtown Manhattan, but depending on the wording of the plan, which seems to be different every time it's announced, they could still get charged riding the FDR between, say, Bronx and Brooklyn.)

Paris is in a similar situation -- you have to be rich to live in the inner city. The rich create a lot of service jobs, which are staffed by immigrants who live in an ever-expanding ring of affordable-but-long-commute housing. But NYC is a tougher nut because, between the ocean and the tony ex-burbs on Long Island and north of the Bronx, there's really only one direction for the laborers to move. "Hello, Jersey!"

And naturally, the towns along the PATH are already pretty pricey, so "Hello automobile!"

>My solution has always been "live closer to where I work."

assuming you can afford to live where you work... or that the jobs where you live pay enough to live there.

That's may not be the case in the NYC metro area.

Sabalo: schnarff: BBRModitha: $2?

3.25 in pittsburgh.

pussies

It can get up to $4.50 in the DC area, depending on how far you're going and when you're going there (I got that figure for Vienna - Union Station during rush hour, for any curious DC-area farkers). The sick thing is, if you figure on two people commuting in to the Hill from the just-barely-outside-the-Beltway 'burbs (which is nowhere near the edge of suburban sprawl), you're looking at $22.50 total, between two round-trip rush-hour fares and parking, which is comparable in price to getting a monthly parking space downtown and just driving. Isn't public transit supposed to be cheaper?

Or you can get a 7 day Fastpass for $39. I'm not sure where you're parking in DC that is only $22.50, as an ancient story from 2006 pegs the cost at about $230.

http://www.wmata.com/riding/passes.cfm
http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/stories/2006/07/17/daily36.html?from_rss= 1

Ummm...if you assume an average of 4 weeks in a month, and 5 working days each week, you get $230 / 20 = $11.50/day. There are *all kinds* of parking places throughout the city below $300/month, which ensures they're still below $15/day.

Prime example: my old office at 1850 K has 5 garages within ~0.1 miles ranging from $210 to $255/month...and you don't get a lot more core downtown than International Square, directly atop Farragut West. Even Capitol Hill is $214.24:

http://www.ecolonial.com/location.pl?addr=1850+K+Street%2C+NW%2C+Washington%2C+D C&x=16&y=5
http://www.ecolonial.com/location.pl?location=127

I never drive into Manhattan any more. It's impossible to drive in from any tunnel or bridge without sitting in bumper to bumper traffic for hours. Then you get into the city and can't park anywhere for less than $35 - or FAR more if it's for longer than a few hours.

It's really insane. And it's getting worse all the time.

Nowadays, I take the train. It costs me ~$20 round trip, plus $6 for parking. And trains are never more than 20 minutes apart or so...
Plus, Penn Station is right in the middle of most of the places you'd go to the city for anyway. For the ones that are further out, take the subway or spring for a cab.

In any case, it all beats driving in there.

Sabalo: aresef: In Baltimore, mass transit is pretty pointless for most of the east half of the city, with one north-south light rail line and a subway that starts downtown and shoots off to nowhere. Compare that to nearby DC's system, which I also use once in a while, so in need of federal funds a day-pass can run you like $8.

The moral--Take what you can get.

$8 for access to the entire DC area is an awesome deal. I'd pay a lot more for the day pass, especially if it meant that the Metro system did not require federal bailouts.

They still really need a federal bailout. It's just the feds are being slow about it, when like half of the people using DC's Metro are federal employees. The fare hike was a by-product of the slowness. And $8...eh. Baltimore it's $3.50 a day for everything, which regardless of how bare-bones the system is, that's a pretty sweet deal.

Why do people live in New York again?

Best thing about DC is that they have a subway station named "Foggy Bottom"

The other thing that needs to be done is to remove all free parking (with the exception of residential parking permits in certain areas), and to make the meters more competitive with garage rates. A large portion of side-street traffic are creeps cruising for free parking.

http://www.transalt.org/newsroom/media/1113

crackhead: A large portion of side-street traffic are creeps cruising for free parking.

Not wanting to pay some garage $20 to park for an hour makes you a creep? That's an... interesting.. point of view.

aresef: In Baltimore, mass transit is pretty pointless for most of the east half of the city, with one north-south light rail line and a subway that starts downtown and shoots off to nowhere.

You know, I still haven't been on the subway around here. I may have to get on it one day just to see where I end up.

schnarff: Sabalo: schnarff: BBRModitha: $2?

3.25 in pittsburgh.

pussies

It can get up to $4.50 in the DC area, depending on how far you're going and when you're going there (I got that figure for Vienna - Union Station during rush hour, for any curious DC-area farkers). The sick thing is, if you figure on two people commuting in to the Hill from the just-barely-outside-the-Beltway 'burbs (which is nowhere near the edge of suburban sprawl), you're looking at $22.50 total, between two round-trip rush-hour fares and parking, which is comparable in price to getting a monthly parking space downtown and just driving. Isn't public transit supposed to be cheaper?

Or you can get a 7 day Fastpass for $39. I'm not sure where you're parking in DC that is only $22.50, as an ancient story from 2006 pegs the cost at about $230.

http://www.wmata.com/riding/passes.cfm
http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/stories/2006/07/17/daily36.html?from_rss= 1

Ummm...if you assume an average of 4 weeks in a month, and 5 working days each week, you get $230 / 20 = $11.50/day. There are *all kinds* of parking places throughout the city below $300/month, which ensures they're still below $15/day.

Prime example: my old office at 1850 K has 5 garages within ~0.1 miles ranging from $210 to $255/month...and you don't get a lot more core downtown than International Square, directly atop Farragut West. Even Capitol Hill is $214.24:

http://www.ecolonial.com/location.pl?addr=1850+K+Street%2C+NW%2C+Washington%2C+D C&x=16&y=5
http://www.ecolonial.com/location.pl?location=127

We're not figuring gas either... but more than that, I think it worth the money to take the metro into the city, as I don't have to deal with traffic! There may be better parking if you're semi-permanent, but for me, I was paying $6.50 a day to park at Howard U when I could get a spot, plus gas into the city from Alexandria, plus the 30-45 minutes of traffic and BS I had to sit through. Even with the cost being a wash, there's something to be said for the system.

One time a break in the fence along my drive to work allowed cattle onto the road.


However, many of the people who suggest that you live closer to where you work forget that living closer often means costing more. I made that decision at my old job when I was faced with living 26 miles away but saving nearly $600/month in rent or a 5 mile drive. Public transportation wasn't an option and there were no apartments w/i range that were available. Even with today's gas prices, I would have saved a lot more on rent than I paid in gas even with my fuel inefficient vehicle.

When I made my decision to accept the job and move into the area, I had to factor in these costs. It would be pretty damned annoying to find out there is another cost unless you want to pay off your mortgage and move (into a more expensive area)


Even if there was a real option with public transportation, I'm not sure if I could go back to that. When I did work a low paying job, I rode the bus. $2 each way, and it only came w/i a mile of me once every 2 hours. Miss the bus, and you could be up to 3 hours late for work. (The bus never kept to its schedule).

So you show up 20-30 minutes ahead of the bus schedule, ride on it for another 30 minutes to 1 hour and hope your work schedule isn't an hour off of your arrival time. On some of the bad days I could easily waste 4 hours just waiting and riding the bus.

I quit bothering with public transportation when they cancelled the bus service last minute for almost any weather problem. It only takes getting stranded 15 miles from home in a heavy rain once or twice at 8pm before you swear off the whole damned thing.

Took up a job in upstate NY, I live closer to work, and pay less on my mortgage than I used to pay for rent and a tractor or a cow is our idea of a traffic jam. (Get paid more too)


Back on topic...

A congestion tax would be very annoying/painful for the people who have already budgeted the cost of driving into the city vs living closer or near public transportation. In my case, at my old job I would have probably left the area had such a fee been instituted.

I just wouldn't want to live in a place that would implement such a costly tax and expect me to sell my house and move closer, or suck up the new tax applied only to me. That, and I probably wouldn't be too keen on paying additional taxes that often come from living in a city (Wage taxes, etc).

The bottom line is: The city wants more money, and this is a politically safe way to raise taxes.

- I can't take public transit because I'm too scared
- I can't bike because I'm too weak
- I can't walk because I'm too impatient

When the energy crisis hits (and it is a when), the people that fall into the above categories are in for a rude, painful surprise.

What about "I can't always walk, drive, or bike because my job requires me to carry anywhere from 20 to 350 pounds of computer equipment with me, at times?"

thestr1ker: Why do people live in New York again?

The real question is why do people in New York need cars? IIt's one of the most walkable cities I've ever experienced.

I pay $15 to park in Manhattan. Right next to Times Square. Used to pay $12 when i was on the westside.

I really don't know what they're gonna do with all these extra people riding the trains. They're already way over-crowded and you'd be lucky to only get squished up against the door and not a bunch of loud annoying f'n assholes

/fark the train
//fark the train again

Nightjars: Best thing about DC is that they have a subway station named "Foggy Bottom"

Not just a subway station...an entire neighborhood (home to a bunch of old people complaining about how GWU is buying up the neighborhood). They even used to have Foggy Bottom Pale Ale, though it was an awful green bunch of fail that no one I knew could stand.

thestr1ker: Why do people live in New York again?

Cause someone has to pay for your stop signs.

Nightjars: crackhead: A large portion of side-street traffic are creeps cruising for free parking.

Not wanting to pay some garage $20 to park for an hour makes you a creep? That's an... interesting.. point of view.

THIS. If you can get on-street parking, go for it.

schnarff: Nightjars: Best thing about DC is that they have a subway station named "Foggy Bottom"

Not just a subway station...an entire neighborhood (home to a bunch of old people complaining about how GWU is buying up the neighborhood). They even used to have Foggy Bottom Pale Ale, though it was an awful green bunch of fail that no one I knew could stand.

I work next to the FB station, so I'm really getting a kick...and so on.

nightjars well to be fair I said non-residents. It's not like the people who want to park close to home shouldn't be able to. And yeah "creeps" may have been strong language. But the fact remains that the hordes of people who drive in from outside the city who could easily do a park and ride but instead gum up the roads as they cruise for free parking are somewhat creepish.

Why do people who don't reside here feel they have the right to tell us how to live?

Tell you what.

You all stop spending the tax revenue this city generates and you get a say.

crackhead: gum up the roads as they cruise for free parking are somewhat creepish.

If by "creep" you mean "are barely moving", then, yes, that would be correct.. :)

nightjars: hah hah. touche.

Sabalo
harlock_jds: the low income drivers don't need to park in Manhattan, they just need to cross the island to get to work without having a 2-3 hour public transport trip each way.

My solution has always been "live closer to where I work."

If they could afford to "live closer to where they worked", they wouldn't be "low income", would they?

/someone has to clean up after the rich
//dee dee dee

It's MUCH faster and cheaper to drive from Westchester to Brooklyn via the Sprainbrook/87/FDR. Mass transit the whole way would take me ~3 hours round trip and cost about 35 bucks. Driving takes about half that time and I fill my car up about once every three weeks. I still think it'd be cheaper to drive if they ended up putting a toll on the FDR.

nijika: thestr1ker: Why do people live in New York again?

The real question is why do people in New York need cars? IIt's one of the most walkable cities I've ever experienced.

i'm guessing you didn't try and walk from Queens to Manhattan...

NYC!=Manhattan.

durbnpoisn-

I have to disagree with some of your points


I never drive into Manhattan any more. It's impossible to drive in from any tunnel or bridge without sitting in bumper to bumper traffic for hours. Then you get into the city and can't park anywhere for less than $35 - or FAR more if it's for longer than a few hours.

As I said in the thread above I just move to NJ. I live about 5 minutes from the Pennsylvania border 15 minutes south of Rt. 78. I drove in this morning left my house at 6:10am got into the city around 7:45. I sat in a little traffic near the holland tunnel but an hour and a half from the other side of the state doesn't seem to be hours of trafic. I got my work done in there and headed back at around 12pm. I was home in 1 hour 15 minutes.


It's really insane. And it's getting worse all the time.

It surely can be if you don't know anything about trafic don't listen to traric radio and drive at the wrong times

Nowadays, I take the train. It costs me ~$20 round trip, plus $6 for parking. And trains are never more than 20 minutes apart or so...
Plus, Penn Station is right in the middle of most of the places you'd go to the city for anyway. For the ones that are further out, take the subway or spring for a cab.

I'm coming from rt78 and going to downtown. Its costs me 10 bucks for tolls and gas for my prius is about 10 bucks round trip. The train ride from here would take me about 2 hours with all the stops and then I find myself in Penn so thats another train ride or cab thats going to take at least 20 minutes.

In any case, it all beats driving in there.

For you maybe. For me? No question I have to drive. Don't get me wrong. I am all for congestion pricing in some way. There is plenty of traffic to biatch about if you go the wrong way or go the wrong time.

I'm just saying public transit isn't going to work for everyone.

I forgot to mention before i get flamed about parking. You can park for 15 bucks for most of the day at one of the piers downtown. As I said in my other posts you can find parking on the streets if you are patient.

Now That's What I Call a Taco!: Haven't been following this too closely since I don't own a car, but wasn't the original plan to create this fee for just lower Manhattan? They've now changed it to the entire island?

And will some of this money go towards more subway cars? Cause it's already crowded enough.

'lower Manhattan' now means all of Manhattan below 86th street, which means everything from the Guggenheim to battery park. so, unless you're driving on 95, or visiting Sylvia's Soul food, you're screwed.

It would be nice if they made the tolls 1$ for Motorbikes, 3$ for cars that get more than 45 mpg and 10$ for everyone driving a sedan or coupe and 25$ for everyone driving a light truck or SUV. and 1$ for Taxis or Busses.

nijika: thestr1ker: Why do people live in New York again?

The real question is why do people in New York need cars? IIt's one of the most walkable cities I've ever experienced.

Because It's nice to leave the island once in a while.

/Go Sox!

Sabalo: What about "I can't always walk, drive, or bike because my job requires me to carry anywhere from 20 to 350 pounds of computer equipment with me, at times?"

Well you've got a good excuse. Prepare your expense sheets. I'm talking about the single-occupant in the empty Escalade. When you look around stuck in traffic, as someone who needs a car (really needs, you're not going to lug around 350 pounds of anything on foot!), and the guy in front of you is in an empty truck, and the guy behind you is in an empty sedan, and the hundred people who are stopping you from getting to your destination are almost all the same, single-occupancy vehicles just sitting there, don't you get frustrated?

I'm all for cars on the road that NEED to be there, but simple commuting is not enough of an excuse anymore. It never was, and it was always a decadence. We're starting to pay the price for it now, at the pumps and in tolls.

I pay $700 a month to park my car in Knoxville, TN.

Of course the $700 covers not only the cost of the parking space, but also the house to which it is attached. I can't immagine paying more than my monthly rent just to park a car.

+1 for bicycles!

HandsomeRyan: I pay $700 a month to park my car in Knoxville, TN.

Of course the $700 covers not only the cost of the parking space, but also the house to which it is attached. I can't immagine paying more than my monthly rent just to park a car.

+1 for bicycles!

Can you imaging doing it in a place you can earn $1M a year with a HS education?

Last time I parked in Manhattan, in the theatre district, for the whole dang night, in a brand name garage, I payed a total of: Eight dollars. And yes it was this year.

Driving into nyc from ct:

no road tolls of any kind (thats right, its a CONNECTICUT thing) if you take the 3rd ave willis bridge. Same thing on your way out, if you take the merritt instead of 95, then switch over to 95 ala the rt7 connector if you need back on 95. For parking - go online for a friggin' parking coupon before you get in the car. If you do you can usually find a place for the whole night for under $20 for anywhere on the island.

So you're looking at about 5 or 6 gallons in gas, round trip, and 20 buckaroos for parking. Add the $8 on for the 86th street fee and you're at a grand total of $43 round trip.

Two round trip train tickets would set you back $54.

Plus the last train leaves prior to 2am so you cant stay out *that* late and you always have to watch the clock. Not to mention being on a local train at 2 in the morning sucks monkey breath. Not to mention being in your own vehicle and in a controlled space is way better than a dirty, smelly, over populated train.

Thanks, I'll drive.

//My GPS routes me around the traffic, too.
///ct is a great state
////except for the taxes!
///slashies!

Pav: durbnpoisn-

I have to disagree with some of your points


I never drive into Manhattan any more. It's impossible to drive in from any tunnel or bridge without sitting in bumper to bumper traffic for hours. Then you get into the city and can't park anywhere for less than $35 - or FAR more if it's for longer than a few hours.

As I said in the thread above I just move to NJ. I live about 5 minutes from the Pennsylvania border 15 minutes south of Rt. 78. I drove in this morning left my house at 6:10am got into the city around 7:45. I sat in a little traffic near the holland tunnel but an hour and a half from the other side of the state doesn't seem to be hours of trafic. I got my work done in there and headed back at around 12pm. I was home in 1 hour 15 minutes.


It's really insane. And it's getting worse all the time.

It surely can be if you don't know anything about trafic don't listen to traric radio and drive at the wrong times

Nowadays, I take the train. It costs me ~$20 round trip, plus $6 for parking. And trains are never more than 20 minutes apart or so...
Plus, Penn Station is right in the middle of most of the places you'd go to the city for anyway. For the ones that are further out, take the subway or spring for a cab.

I'm coming from rt78 and going to downtown. Its costs me 10 bucks for tolls and gas for my prius is about 10 bucks round trip. The train ride from here would take me about 2 hours with all the stops and then I find myself in Penn so thats another train ride or cab thats going to take at least 20 minutes.

In any case, it all beats driving in there.

For you maybe. For me? No question I have to drive. Don't get me wrong. I am all for congestion pricing in some way. There is plenty of traffic to biatch about if you go the wrong way or go the wrong time.

I'm just saying public transit isn't going to work for everyone.

I currently work right out in the area that you are driving into the city from (I work in Hackettstown).
So, yeah, I see what you mean. You don't have the convenience of the NJT Northeast Corridor line like I do.

Another thing to consider is what time you drive into the city. I couldn't start my commute at 6:00 AM. I have a hard enough time starting at 7:00! :D