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(ABC News)   Independent filmmaker and professional attention getter learns that despite catering to the lowest common denominator and leveling numerous ad hominem attacks at a world religion, nobody really seems to care what he thinks   (abcnews.go.com ) divider line 150
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15503 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Mar 2008 at 9:10 PM (7 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-03-28 06:47:05 PM  
"falls flat"

yeah. today live leak took the video off its site because of credible death threats against its employees.

(obvious tag) muslims don't like free expression when it disses mohammed, allah, or the koran.
 
2008-03-28 06:50:25 PM  
Remove the first three words of that headline and it applies to half of Fark.
 
nrw
2008-03-28 07:35:12 PM  
I saw the video before it was taken down. I wasn't terribly impressed with it, but if there wasnt a ring of truth to it, everyone involved in the slightest way wouldnt be getting death threats.

Now normally you can just take a death threat and assume its just bullshiat posturing, but they have followed through before, and there is no reason to doubt they wouldnt now.

I think the religion is controlled by the crazies, and it will get a lot worse before it gets any better.

/probably all religions for that matter.
 
2008-03-28 08:45:13 PM  
I think I've discovered the disconnect between Islam and the West:

ABC News spoke to a Quran expert to investigate what the verses in Wilders' film mean. Below are expert Mohammad Al-Hayek's translations of the meanings of the verses used in "Fitna."

Verse from Fitna: (Chapter 8; Verse 6) Prepare for them whatever force and cavalry ye are able of gathering to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies of Allah and your enemies.

Al-Hayek: The purpose of this verse is to urge Muslim governments to be militarily strong in order to intimidate its enemies. Building up power is meant to serve as a deterrent to those wanting to attack Muslims.


The term "Muslim Government", for better or worse, implies a differing line of thought than most Western democracies adhere to. An explicitly religious government is frowned upon, which is why people get up in such arms over Israel. If the US actively refused to let someone serve as a government official based on religion, we'd go batshiat.

Of course in practice a democracy is going to have more representatives of major groups when compared to smaller ones, which can create what seems like a discriminatory system. However, we are getting better, and we finally have a Muslim in Congress. Islamic countries do not offer the same level of opportunity.
 
2008-03-28 09:15:02 PM  
The scariest part of the story was these two words:

Dutch rapper
 
2008-03-28 09:17:11 PM  
Darn, I was hoping a parade of trashbags would crawl its way through the streets.
 
2008-03-28 09:17:42 PM  
Wow. Sounds like Islam is the AIDs of the various diseases we call religion.
 
2008-03-28 09:22:14 PM  
aerojockey

Dutch Rudder?
 
2008-03-28 09:22:32 PM  
Geert Wilders, posted an anti-Islam film Thursday that was expected to raise an uproar among Muslims. So far, the fallout has fallen flat.

Do you know how I know you're gay? You make an anti-islam movie and it fails to cause a riot.
 
2008-03-28 09:22:41 PM  
Riiiiiiiight, Subby.

People like the film's creator are doing what the majority of the Muslim world is too scared to do. Standing up and saying that extremism of the Islamic religion is a load of horse shiat. He's right.
 
2008-03-28 09:22:44 PM  
m2313: Wow. Sounds like Islam is the AIDs of the various diseases we call religion.

I've seen this about five times over the course of the last couple weeks or so on Fark. What is with this recent trend of using a lower case "s" in "AIDS"?
 
2008-03-28 09:22:47 PM  
aerojockey: The scariest part of the story was these two words:

Dutch rapper



uwstopia.nl
GIS for Dutch rapper
 
2008-03-28 09:23:01 PM  
ad hominem, I do not think this means what you think it means...
 
2008-03-28 09:23:28 PM  
Vman: aerojockey

Dutch Rudder?


Dutch wrapper.
 
2008-03-28 09:24:44 PM  
How can you have an "ad hominem attack" against a religion?
 
2008-03-28 09:24:53 PM  
Lol. I guess the people that sent the threats to live leak cared about it.
 
2008-03-28 09:24:59 PM  
I don't know... it spurred a letter from the UN. Either that means it's very relevant or very irrelevant. Probably the latter.
 
2008-03-28 09:31:03 PM  
Alien Robot: How can you have an "ad hominem attack" against a religion?

Ad hominem logical fallacy is massively misunderstood and misused often on Fark.

Ad hominem is not simply "You are stoopid" but rather an attempt to discredit the person by attacking his character or characteristic.

For example:

Bob the Farmer: I think that airplane security needs to be reviewed.

Jim the Banker: Bob is just a farmer. Thus, airplane security is fine.
 
2008-03-28 09:31:36 PM  
Wow, a whopping 33 word headline with only one comma...
 
2008-03-28 09:31:49 PM  
In 10 years, Islamic countries will have nuclear weapons. Then the real fun begins. Hope you like your virgins well done.
 
2008-03-28 09:32:53 PM  
firstfriday.files.wordpress.com
 
2008-03-28 09:34:45 PM  
Falls flat? I can hardly avoid reading/hearing about this film today. Me thinks subby is full of shiate.
 
2008-03-28 09:35:05 PM  
I care
 
2008-03-28 09:37:03 PM  
The Koran is the only book I have ever read that I threw away afterwards. It is an evil book in my opinion, the worst of the Abrahemic religions.

I am beginning to understand that the reason why they punish those who try to convert people from Islam with death is because when you compare Islam to other religions it is left wanting.

It's not something any compassionate person would ever follow unless you held a knife to their throat, which they did.
 
2008-03-28 09:37:41 PM  
PC LOAD LETTER: In 10 years, Islamic countries will have nuclear weapons. Then the real fun begins. Hope you like your virgins well done.

Pakistan already has nukes. So what was your point again?
 
2008-03-28 09:37:54 PM  
albo: "falls flat"

yeah. today live leak took the video off its site because of credible death threats against its employees.

(obvious tag) muslims don't like free expression when it disses mohammed, allah, or the koran.


SUBBY is wrong

Quote from Liveleak:
Following threats to our staff of a very serious nature, and some ill informed reports from certain corners of the British media that could directly lead to the harm of some of our staff, Liveleak.com has been left with no other choice but to remove Fitna from our servers.
This is a sad day for freedom of speech on the net but we have to place the safety and well being of our staff above all else. We would like to thank the thousands of people, from all backgrounds and religions, who gave us their support. They realised LiveLeak.com is a vehicle for many opinions and not just for the support of one.
Perhaps there is still hope that this situation may produce a discussion that could benefit and educate all of us as to how we can accept one anothers culture.
We stood for what we believe in, the ability to be heard, but in the end the price was too high
 
2008-03-28 09:38:22 PM  
Ad hominem attacks are never compelling. And the fact that this idiot uses them PROVES that his points are wrong.
 
2008-03-28 09:38:41 PM  
bingo the psych-o: The Koran is the only book I have ever read that I threw away afterwards. It is an evil book in my opinion, the worst of the Abrahemic religions.

I am beginning to understand that the reason why they punish those who try to convert people from Islam with death is because when you compare Islam to other religions it is left wanting.

It's not something any compassionate person would ever follow unless you held a knife to their throat, which they did.


Fixed that for me.
 
2008-03-28 09:39:13 PM  
Allah sucks lobster balls
 
2008-03-28 09:40:14 PM  
jpbreon: Ad hominem is not simply "You are stoopid" but rather an attempt to discredit the person by attacking his character or characteristic

Actually, and ad hominem attack is an attempt to discredit an argument by attacking the person presenting it. The concept rests upon the basic principle that an argument stands solely on its own merits.
 
2008-03-28 09:40:28 PM  
sigdiamond2000: m2313: Wow. Sounds like Islam is the AIDs of the various diseases we call religion.

I've seen this about five times over the course of the last couple weeks or so on Fark. What is with this recent trend of using a lower case "s" in "AIDS"?


FARKers want everyone to have aides. If they had the money they'd start by giving the children aides.
 
2008-03-28 09:40:30 PM  
He made a movie about dangerous verses in the Koran. Fine.
A Muslim expert on the Koran said these verses may have been interpreted out of context. Fine.
Some people who may have been ding-dongs made death threats against the people who ran the film online. Not so fine, but that's what happens on the Internet.
The people who ran the website pulled the movie. And this is why those ding-dong death threats work.

Anyone who has access to a computer can post a death threat on a website; I've certainly run my share. People tend to run crazy scared when said death threat is posted in relation to anything Islamic these days, but folks, they're really no more credible than any death threat pre-9/11. If Osama bin Laden or the Grand Ayatollah appears on al-Jazeerah and declares a fatwah against you, you may have reason for alarm, but if "al keda" says "you die western imperialist wer'e coming for yu" you don't need to worry much.
 
2008-03-28 09:41:25 PM  
In case anyone at all read the article, I found it interesting how the person interviewed contextualized the quotes used in the video and notes how the selected quotes were selected and translated in a deliberately deceptive manner.

No, no one would ever take something wildly out of original context for personal gain. Certainly not any of the wise folks who are not part of the Muslim world.
 
2008-03-28 09:44:10 PM  
I thought it was a well done video.

The Koran and the Bible both share some pretty outrageous passages. There was a time when Christians took things way too seriously and persecuted those who were perceived to have 'crossed the line'. Now the Islamic Fundies are doing the same thing.

Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and Buddhists all share one thing in common: an erroneous belief in the supernatural that isn't supported by anything other than faith. This belief does nothing more than separate people into opposing groups.
 
2008-03-28 09:44:13 PM  
Can we have a moment of silence for Theo van Gogh, murdered by Mohammed Bouyeri for making a film that accurately depicts the treatment of women in Muslim countries.

Bouyeri shot him eight times, slit his throat, and then used a second knife to affix a five-page death threat for Ayaan Hirsi Ali to his chest.

If you say Muslims are violent, they will be so offended by your slander that they will kill you.

FARKizens, most of them, live in a country where such things never happen, and can afford the luxury of hip irony and jaded cynicism.

But in the real world it takes real bravery and real courage to stand up to Muslim extremists.
 
2008-03-28 09:46:31 PM  
Dances-With-Lobster: Ad hominem attacks are never compelling. And the fact that this idiot uses them PROVES that his points are wrong.

Nice!
 
2008-03-28 09:46:47 PM  
It's ten minutes long. If I can miss the whole thing because of a bran muffin induced trip to the can, it's not a farking "film", OK?

Distributors wouldn't release it? Do people in Holland actually stand in line and pay to see 10 minute "films"? Even the IMAX deals at museums are like 20-25 minutes FFS.
 
2008-03-28 09:48:01 PM  
I predict that the failing of this film will spur this Farktard to even greater heights of idiocy. He's sniffed the sweet smell of fame, and 15 minutes won't be enough for him. You heard it hear first.
 
2008-03-28 09:48:25 PM  
Shrikeangel: Can we have a moment of silence for Theo van Gogh, murdered by Mohammed Bouyeri for making a film that accurately depicts the treatment of women in Muslim countries.

Was he an attention getter.
 
2008-03-28 09:49:14 PM  
Shrikeangel:

But in the real world it takes real bravery and real courage to stand up to Muslim extremists.

Maybe so. But then, why did he feel the need to gather out-of-context quotes to make his point?
 
2008-03-28 09:49:33 PM  
The irony of making death threats to those who call you violent is completely lost on Muslim leaders. It's downright funny.
 
2008-03-28 09:49:59 PM  
jpbreon: Alien Robot: How can you have an "ad hominem attack" against a religion?

Ad hominem logical fallacy is massively misunderstood and misused often on Fark.

Ad hominem is not simply "You are stoopid" but rather an attempt to discredit the person by attacking his character or characteristic.

For example:

Bob the Farmer: I think that airplane security needs to be reviewed.

Jim the Banker: Bob is just a farmer. Thus, airplane security is fine.


Actually, it's more like "Bob is a communist." His being a farmer isn't an irrelevant piece of information (whereas his being communist is). What makes something a fallacy is that it is irrelevant.

(But, me, I'm in the pragma-dialectical school, rather than the Tarski-type, so whadoIknow?)
 
2008-03-28 09:51:40 PM  
michaelgvh: The irony of making death threats to those who call you violent is completely lost on Muslim leaders. It's downright funny.

Was there any death threats against this guy from Muslim leaders?
 
2008-03-28 09:52:13 PM  
Religion=mass psychosis.
 
2008-03-28 09:53:35 PM  
Mauvais Voisin: notes how the selected quotes were selected and translated in a deliberately deceptive manner.

Welcome to misrepresentation of Islam and the Koran 101. Some English translations of the Koran itself are a bit dubious as is. What some people make from it, egads.

Of course there was, and to a limited extent still is, a market in totally mispreresenting some of the policies of the Catholic church. So it's not like there's not a supply of people who distort things for their own attempts to inculcate fear into people.
 
2008-03-28 09:54:30 PM  
zopi: Religion=mass psychosis.

*facepalm*

michaelgvh: is completely lost on Muslim leaders. It'

accept for all the leaders who decry violence and don't get their dander up over cartoons and such.
 
2008-03-28 09:56:39 PM  
Fart_Machine: Pakistan already has nukes. So what was your point again?

That is my point. Do you think Pakistan is a stable country? It was a horrible idea for them to get Nuclear capability. The ISI has a long history of infiltration by more radical elements. They helped the Taleban rise to power, for example.

Do you think it would be good for Iran and Syria to get nuclear weapons? You know, to "balance things out"? Or do you think one day, New York, London, Moscow or Jerusalem will wake up with a second sun? I barely trust the nations that have nuclear weapons currently to keep them safe. We really do not need any more proliferation. There are people in this world who very much would like to see NYC destroyed who have the organization, firepower, and connections to make it happen in certain countries. And it won't be from a long-range, easily tracked missile. It will be in a plane or a cargo container. And there will be no idea which of the nations actually supplied it. That's my personal WW3 scenario.

I like my virgins medium rare, personally.
 
2008-03-28 09:58:53 PM  
For those of you who haven't seen it take the 10 minutes and 13 seconds to watch Fitna on YouTube. I would link it but I fear the ban would be swift no matter how bold the NSFW warning.
 
F42
2008-03-28 10:00:00 PM  
The Duke of Carrot Flowers: Maybe so. But then, why did he feel the need to gather out-of-context quotes to make his point?

When did this thread become about Bevets?
 
2008-03-28 10:02:46 PM  
Fart_Machine: PC LOAD LETTER: In 10 years, Islamic countries will have nuclear weapons. Then the real fun begins. Hope you like your virgins well done.

Pakistan already has nukes. So what was your point again?


Yeah, you're right. Iran, Hamas, Al Qaeda (I know, not a govt.), Fatah etc., would act just like Pakistan if they had nukes.
 
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