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twobux:How? Did MLK Jr. give the "I have a dream" speech with the top 2 inches of his boxers showing?
No, but there is almost always a tinge of bigotry behind sumptuary laws. The zoot suit ban, for instance, was directed at hispanics - the people who could often be found wearing them.
"Low pants" laws are in themselves sumptuary laws. So the NAACP is correct, even if they do sound like whiners.
twobux:FTFA: NAACP President Adora Obi Nweze called it a "clearly discriminatory bill.''
How? Did MLK Jr. give the "I have a dream" speech with the top 2 inches of his boxers showing?
How DARE you question the NAACP?! Obviously it IS discriminatory because they SAID it was! Are you racist? Cos just the fact that you question the NAACP's stance on something makes you SEEM racist!!!
Lord knows I've never seen white boys in low baggy pants. Hell no. Never. Ever. Even at the shopping mall. All the kids are wearing drainpipe trousers with Creepers, now, and quiff their hair up like Elvis.
I say let them dress however they like. It makes it easier for me to determine who I need to watch closely to make sure they don't steal my wallet/ turn down for interviews.
MrKraclenutz:I say let them dress however they like. It makes it easier for me to determine who I need to watch closely to make sure they don't steal my wallet/ turn down for interviews.
Exactly. Much easier to spot the stupid ones from a safe distance.
Nestea Plunge:Lord knows I've never seen white boys in low baggy pants. Hell no. Never. Ever. Even at the shopping mall. All the kids are wearing drainpipe trousers with Creepers, now, and quiff their hair up like Elvis.
A law can be racially motivated and improperly target individuals on the basis of race notwithstanding the fact that it also pulls in individuals not of that targeted race. I'm not saying this one is racially motivated, but just sayin'.
kronicfeld:A law can be racially motivated and improperly target individuals on the basis of race notwithstanding the fact that it also pulls in individuals not of that targeted race. I'm not saying this one is racially motivated, but just sayin'.
The white boys, IMHO, are worse. They should know better.
I came in here to talk about just that. And many of these proposed laws also carry a "no baggy pants" ban. Which would mean I couldn't wear MY zoot suit.
Fark that noise. I'm tired of scared old people telling me how to dress, act, and who's culture reigns supreme.
MrKraclenutz:The white boys, IMHO, are worse. They should know better.
What the f*ck does that mean? Why?
Anyway, nobody knows better. People emulate pop culture stars. The kids don't know that sagging your pants is also called jailin' because the roots of it go back to prison. Inmates get pants issued that don't fit and they don't have belts so the pants sag.
These high school kids, for the most part, don't know that. It's another example of crime culture infecting pop culture and the people setting trends are accountable for that. There's usually a white record exec at the top of that pecking order.
With all the stories of read (mostly here on FARK) of some baggy pants criminal trying to outrun the cops and ending up with his face on the ground and pants around his ankles, you'd think the police unions would be fighting the low pants bill tooth and nail.
GWShenlong05:No, but there is almost always a tinge of bigotry behind sumptuary laws. The zoot suit ban, for instance, was directed at hispanics - the people who could often be found wearing them.
"Low pants" laws are in themselves sumptuary laws. So the NAACP is correct, even if they do sound like whiners.
True, but you're right at the bottom of a slippery slope. If a law is broken most often by a minority group, do we not enforce it for fear of being discriminatory (the advisability of the law notwithstanding)?
Sybarite:With all the stories of read (mostly here on FARK) of some baggy pants criminal trying to outrun the cops and ending up with his face on the ground and pants around his ankles, you'd think the police unions would be fighting the low pants bill tooth and nail.
I was driving down a road and watched as some baggy-pants kid riding his bike have his pants get caught in the chain and pull them completely down (while he practically went over the handlebars). I felt like stopping and giving him a Nelsonesque "HA ha!"
I don't see a law being enforced at the mall which targets, intentionally or not, hot little white chicks for walking around with the bottom part of their ass showing.
Diogenes:True, but you're right at the bottom of a slippery slope. If a law is broken most often by a minority group, do we not enforce it for fear of being discriminatory (the advisability of the law notwithstanding)?
No one is going to consider anti-rape laws as being discriminatory, even if blacks or hispanics commit more per capita (disclaimer: I have no idea whether they do). It's when you get into criminalizing arbitrary behaviors, like types of music, clothing styles, etc., that you start to have an issue.
acurus:Oh, I figured it out. I just wanted to see if you had the conviction to eschew obfuscation.
Nope, I'm being forthright in my assertion that dressing like this is a willful act of ignorance. If you want to dress like a complete retard, fine. By all means do so. Just don't come crying to me when the inevitable consequences rear their ugly heads.
People (like me) are going to look at you as a thug.
MrKraclenutz:acurus: Oh, I figured it out. I just wanted to see if you had the conviction to eschew obfuscation.
Nope, I'm being forthright in my assertion that dressing like this is a willful act of ignorance. If you want to dress like a complete retard, fine. By all means do so. Just don't come crying to me when the inevitable consequences rear their ugly heads.
People (like me) are going to look at you as a thug.
You've utterly failed to explain why white boys should know better.
kronicfeld:No one is going to consider anti-rape laws as being discriminatory, even if blacks or hispanics commit more per capita (disclaimer: I have no idea whether they do). It's when you get into criminalizing arbitrary behaviors, like types of music, clothing styles, etc., that you start to have an issue.
I don't disagree at all. Just playing devil's advocate. But I wouldn't put it past the NAACP to try such a strategy.
Other than that, NAACP should learn to pick their battles. I'm sure the black community has bigger problems than idiots with their asses hanging out of their pants. If it was white/Asian/hispanic kids doing instead of black kids, the point would still stand.
Diogenes:True, but you're right at the bottom of a slippery slope. If a law is broken most often by a minority group, do we not enforce it for fear of being discriminatory (the advisability of the law notwithstanding)?
Well that's pretty silly.
Rape is illegal for the obvious damage it causes to the victim, the victim's family, the community, etc.
Low Pants laws do not demonstrate any damage to anyone besides the fashion sense of the retards who wear their pants below their asscracks. And maybe the sensibilities of the people who care that much about the way other people dress.
Come on. The only thing you can compare one sumptuary law to, is another sumptuary law. And in principle, sumptuary laws are on their face nonsensical and betray bigoted intent in the people who pass them.
Rape is illegal for the obvious damage it causes to the victim, the victim's family, the community, etc.
Low Pants laws do not demonstrate any damage to anyone besides the fashion sense of the retards who wear their pants below their asscracks. And maybe the sensibilities of the people who care that much about the way other people dress.
Come on. The only thing you can compare one sumptuary law to, is another sumptuary law. And in principle, sumptuary laws are on their face nonsensical and betray bigoted intent in the people who pass them.
Well, if I can mix metaphors, I was playing devil's advocate by proposing a slippery slope argument. But again, we have seen incidents of advocacy groups try to employ just such a tactic.
This law in particular is silly, and perhaps discriminatory (I don't think the low pants thing is "owned" by the black community -- not anymore). The thing is they might actually get it passed because the supporters have the whole public decency angle. Very much like a "but it's for the children" thing.
Kyosuke:MrKraclenutz: I say let them dress however they like. It makes it easier for me to determine who I need to watch closely to make sure they don't steal my wallet/ turn down for interviews.
Exactly. Much easier to spot the stupid ones from a safe distance.
Also makes it easier for the police to catch them because you can't run real fast with your pants at your knees.
Diogenes:The thing is they might actually get it passed because the supporters have the whole public decency angle. Very much like a "but it's for the children" thing.
Even worse, IMHO. If the naughty bits are properly covered, then why is it the government's business how many layers of fabric cover them? Will going commando be outlawed next?
MrKraclenutz: I'm sorry. Did I say something that you were unaware of? Did you just now figure out that people tend to react poorly to willful displays of thuggery?
I'm with you on this. This isn't discrimination against blacks. I know lots of very respectable black people and let me tell you, not one of them wears their pants below their crack. Exactly like MrKraclenutz said, it's a "willful display of thuggery."
The type of people who wear their pants like that, weather they be black, mexican, OR white typically have that asshole, thug attitude. Just like you could safely assume the young "hot" white girls who wear skirts and shorts that show their asscheeks, and flashy their boobies for Girls Gone Wild are slutty.
I DO think that all of this is stupid however. If someone wants to look like a douchebag, let them. It'll make it easier for the rest of us to tell the difference.
Pink4Flower:Just like you could safely assume the young "hot" white girls who wear skirts and shorts that show their asscheeks, and flashy their boobies for Girls Gone Wild are slutty.
Yea, if that were only true. Nearly all the sluts I've ever known do not dress like this.
GWShenlong05:No, but there is almost always a tinge of bigotry behind sumptuary laws. The zoot suit ban, for instance, was directed at hispanics - the people who could often be found wearing them.
"Low pants" laws are in themselves sumptuary laws. So the NAACP is correct, even if they do sound like whiners.
Pretty much this.
It's discriminatory by intent, and it doesn't have any tangible public benefit.
The personal satisfaction I'd get out of seeing kids (and some adults) actually have to dress in a half-way decent manner isn't enough to stop me from opposing a law like this.
Now if we can just outlaw the 99 cent doo rag! And the sideways baseball cap. And those grillz things. I just have those farking things. But, I digress.
GWShenlong05:twobux: How? Did MLK Jr. give the "I have a dream" speech with the top 2 inches of his boxers showing?
No, but there is almost always a tinge of bigotry behind sumptuary laws. The zoot suit ban, for instance, was directed at hispanics - the people who could often be found wearing them.
"Low pants" laws are in themselves sumptuary laws. So the NAACP is correct, even if they do sound like whiners.
It's aimed at preventing UNDERGARMENTS from being shown. More importantly, it's probably aimed at the local losers who lack respect for themselves, the schools and society.
When the school system adopted a "social development" approach to teaching, they also were forced to take these new snowflakes and their social well being and make them productive. Good luck now!
The schools have so screwed society that you can no longer tell student's they are WRONG or their behaviors are unacceptable, for fear they may sue you. So if you want your little shiate bag kid to dress like an asshat, go right ahead, but home school the little prick and keep him away from students who are trying to LEARN in school.
I pray for the day that we have institutionalized dress codes for all school students. It'll take the emphasis off of designer clothes and socializing in schools and put it back on education. Not to mention, no one can claim "racism" if everyone is forced to wear the dress code.
SchlingFo:The personal satisfaction I'd get out of seeing kids (and some adults) actually have to dress in a half-way decent manner isn't enough to stop me from opposing a law like this.
What adults are going to school? Or did you not notice this is only for kids going to school and at most they are going to be suspended after being told twice to quit it?
consciousNOT:Now if we can just outlaw the 99 cent doo rag! And the sideways baseball cap. And those grillz things. I just have those farking things. But, I digress.
Whoa whoa whoa. Blacks are dropping out of high school in record numbers*, so we create a bill SUSPENDING them from school for wearing pants a certain way??
Can we pick and choose our battles here, people?? Or at least get some kind of better punishment?
consciousNOT:Now if we can just outlaw the 99 cent doo rag! And the sideways baseball cap. And those grillz things. I just have those farking things. But, I digress.
I have 99 cent grillz with baseball cap patterns, and I'm slightly dark skinned, so you'll be hearing from my lawyer about that reply.
MrKraclenutz:kronicfeld: A law can be racially motivated and improperly target individuals on the basis of race notwithstanding the fact that it also pulls in individuals not of that targeted race. I'm not saying this one is racially motivated, but just sayin'.
The white boys, IMHO, are worse. They should know better.
Ryan2065:What adults are going to school? Or did you not notice this is only for kids going to school and at most they are going to be suspended after being told twice to quit it?
Sorry, I consider 18 to be an adult.
If you're old enough to be drafted, you've reached the adult world. Welcome to it. Now pull up your pants and get a job, hippie.
New phrase and concept for me, I can't imagine when I'll use it, but I thank you for the interesting google diversion.
(It may just be the benefit of 60 years of culture and my memories of James Edward Olmos trailers for the movie, but Zoot Suits looked cool, boxers and bagging not so much.)
As whiny as it sounds, they do have a point, although this does not reflect very well on the black community, even if it's just one part of it (young black males) that usually does it.
Then again...what about any other race that does this? It's not intentionally discriminatory, but the NAACP's angle is easy to see.
How? Did MLK Jr. give the "I have a dream" speech with the top 2 inches of his boxers showing?
I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to wear baggy pants.
AAH! I can't stand when people say any law is discriminatory when it covers everyone! There's a rule where I live at a mall that children under 16 can't be there after 5pm on weekends without a parent because of recent violence and shoplifting. Of course, "It's discriminating against blacks!" What? The law is children under 16, not black children under 16.
How can a law that protects equally be discriminatory? By the very definition of the word?
If drug dealers wore tighter clothing, the silhouette of a gun could much more easily be identified by passing police. With saggy, baggy pants and shirts hanging out, it is impossible. This is also why you see so many coats with hoods, in drug-infested areas. It's another case of form fitting function. Big Brother puts up cameras, so the drug dealers put up their hoods when they are doing a deal.
Of course, there are others who follow the lead of gun-carrying drug dealers and wear this fashion, even though they aren't dealing drugs or carrying drugs, but in the neighborhoods they live in, they sure better look like they are carrying. Otherwise, who is going to protect them, when they come across a true gangster, the police? Not likely. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. In the hood, do as the government-created gangsters do.
GWShenlong05:twobux: How? Did MLK Jr. give the "I have a dream" speech with the top 2 inches of his boxers showing?
No, but there is almost always a tinge of bigotry behind sumptuary laws. The zoot suit ban, for instance, was directed at hispanics - the people who could often be found wearing them.
"Low pants" laws are in themselves sumptuary laws. So the NAACP is correct, even if they do sound like whiners.
This is Gary Silpan, the Senator who is sponsoring this bill:
consciousNOT:Now if we can just outlaw the 99 cent doo rag! And the sideways baseball cap. And those grillz things. I just have those farking things. But, I digress.
drjekel_mrhyde:consciousNOT: Now if we can just outlaw the 99 cent doo rag! And the sideways baseball cap. And those grillz things. I just have those farking things. But, I digress.
acurus:I don't see a law being enforced at the mall which targets, intentionally or not, hot little white chicks for walking around with the bottom part of their ass showing.
So then go complain about it...
At that point, I'm sure that -someone- will listen and actually try to get that law passed.
--I swear - someone always gets upset with freaking everything.
Sybarite:With all the stories of read (mostly here on FARK) of some baggy pants criminal trying to outrun the cops and ending up with his face on the ground and pants around his ankles, you'd think the police unions would be fighting the low pants bill tooth and nail.
No kidding. It's a lot easier to chase someone who's spending half their time making sure you can read the label on their boxers.
If you're old enough to be drafted, you've reached the adult world. Welcome to it. Now pull up your pants and get a job, hippie.
Being an adult isn't only measured by how old you are. I highly doubt many 18 year olds showing their ass as a fashion statement can be considered adults mentally.
Diogenes:It is the right of all African Americans to look like they don't know how to dress themselves!
/silly legislation //sillier naacp response
If not for the "silly legislation" there would be no "silly response" and therefore, no "silly discrimination"
I live in a hotbed of this "anti-sag lawmaking" and even i can see clearly this is all 100% discriminatory... Whether it's racial, cultural, or just plain ignorance, it's all "discrimination" under the constitutional rights of this great country we live in.
Too bad people can't read/comprehend simple concepts laid out by brilliant men some 232 years ago.
(witntv.com) NAACP Says "Low Pants Bill" Is Discriminatory
Sooooooo.... only colored people sag their pants?
/That's certainly going to help advancement; and by the way...NAACP Wiki (new window) Maybe time for a name change? //The NAACP will never be satisfied because if "colored" people have advanced beyond advocacy, their organization ceases to be relevant.
Sybarite:With all the stories of read (mostly here on FARK) of some baggy pants criminal trying to outrun the cops and ending up with his face on the ground and pants around his ankles, you'd think the police unions would be fighting the low pants bill tooth and nail.
We all know that REAL police work these days is about busting people for chickenshiat speeding tickets... and no level of baggy pants will make up for lardass traffic cops eating too many donuts.
Serious question that I and my friends always ask each other when we see some guy, no matter what his skin color, wearing these:
How the hell do you run in those things if you're chasing someone, being chased, trying to catch a bus, etc? Keerist, I would fall on my face if I took three steps at anything more than a walk. I saw one guy and the crotch was below his kneecaps! Also, what keeps those suckers up? If the pants waist is below ass crack, well, how do the things not just fall down to the guy's ankles?
yeah, because it's the " black way " to dress like a slob with their draws sticking out above their pants. I guess part of the problem is that they're too stupid to know what size to buy in the first place.
Oh, wait, it ISN'T a black thing. I see plenty of young white punks dressing the same way. in addition, I've seen plenty of young girls with the low rize jeans and their thong riding above.
Stupid law? maybe
Stupid response? absolutely.
stupid fashion statement? Indeed
The problem is that when these stupid kids dress like this and receive nothing but disrespect from adult society, they are upset and can't understand why they're being " dissed. "
They'll also whine when they have trouble getting a job and demand those of us who know how to dress properly pay them some unemployment or Welfare.
...but it's such a great fashion statement..............
............For the Society of the perpetually unemployed dumbasses anyway.
GWShenlong05 No, but there is almost always a tinge of bigotry behind sumptuary laws.
You maked me use a dictionary:
"Laws made for the purpose of restraining luxury or extravagance, particularly against inordinate expenditures in the matter of apparel, food, furniture, etc."
Hmm. I'm not getting the race card here. I deal with this fashion vomit all the time in the classroom, and it's ALWAYS a white kid showing off his underwear. I just point and tell him there's a huge skid mark. The pants go up before the the class is finished laughing at him. If we all just pointed and laughed this nonsense would go away.
kc987654:xanadian: FTFA: The bill calls for no criminal sanctions, but it would prohibit students from wearing pants low so that they expose undergarments.
I think the answer here is simple, really...
Don't wear undergarments.
Hey, some of us have a hard enough time not looking at (older) teen boy's underwear.
They perfected anti-gravity about fifteen years ago. All the gangster stuff is just a front to conceal their plans to leave Earth in a low-riding spacecraft powered by Olde English.
If I read it correctly it was directed at schools.
I don't have a problem with that.
On one hand I think it is a waste of time, on the other I think setting a state standard for how kids are allowed to dress witll free up school s to do what they are supposed to do teach. Deciding if some little slutina is showing too much underwear or if some thug wannabe is distracting class by having his pants halfway down won't take as much time. And with it being a state law the state not the schools or school district will have to worry about the court cases.
Fact Man:AAH! I can't stand when people say any law is discriminatory when it covers everyone!
How can a law that protects equally be discriminatory? By the very definition of the word?
Illegal to marry someone of your same gender. Illegal to marry outside of your race. Illegal to wear your hair in cornrows or dreadlocks. Illegal to urinate outside (that one was once used to justify locking up all the homeless people in Miami).
1. A particular fashion is popular among black males. 2. Said fashion is banned by Florida(who would have thought).
Black males had their fashion banned. What's so hard about that?
If khaki shorts and pastel polo shirts were banned, you know damn well all us pale-ass farkers would be up in arms.
I don't care what hugh the man sponsoring this bill is, KevinC. It's not going to change the fact that this is going to affect black males (and probably young women) the most. It's one group of people telling another group of people what to do, and that ain't right.
SchlingFo:Fact Man: But that law involved racial separation. A ban on showing your ass in public doesn't.
I was addressing your question as to how a law could be discriminatory if it applies to everyone equally.
I provided an example of a law that applied to everyone equally and was discriminatory.
I see. Well that does do it.
I live in St. Louis, where there are neighborhoods with mansions five blocks away from ghettos, and every time a law is passed to try to better a crime-affected area, there are board meetings trying to shut it down because it's discriminatory and targeting races (see my mall example above).
I was driving home from a holiday fireworks show in downtown Cincinnati one night, and stopped at a red light in the worst neighborhood in town. A black guy, probably around 20, walked across the cross walk with "low pants" that were low enough to expose pubes, ass crack, and ass pubes as he passed. I had an urge to run him over.
I'm not racist, but neither I, my friend, nor our girlfriends want to see that crap.
ZachF81:I was driving home from a holiday fireworks show in downtown Cincinnati one night, and stopped at a red light in the worst neighborhood in town. A black guy, probably around 20, walked across the cross walk with "low pants" that were low enough to expose pubes, ass crack, and ass pubes as he passed. I had an urge to run him over.
I'm not racist, but neither I, my friend, nor our girlfriends want to see that crap.
ZachF81:A black guy, probably around 20, walked across the cross walk with "low pants" that were low enough to expose pubes, ass crack, and ass pubes as he passed. I had an urge to run him over.
I'm pretty sure that sort of thing is already indecent exposure.
SchlingFo:Fact Man: But that law involved racial separation. A ban on showing your ass in public doesn't.
I was addressing your question as to how a law could be discriminatory if it applies to everyone equally.
I provided an example of a law that applied to everyone equally and was discriminatory.
That's kinda different, assuming this law is actually being used to prevent "indecent exposure," which would be a crime. If it's something that's already a crime (granted, wear)
You can't exactly call anti murder laws drisciminatory because more people of some ethnic group perform murders (You'll probably find that every law is broken by a different ratio of ethnicities). It has to be racially motivated. Stupid whites and blacks do this. Not racial (but unless there's performing indecent exposure, not really enforceable either).
liam76:Deciding if some little slutina is showing too much underwear or if some thug wannabe is distracting class by having his pants halfway down won't take as much time.
What's wrong with you that the level at which a guy wears his belts is distracting to you in class? Are you just staring at his crack? If his behavior is distracting, there are already ways to deal with it. But short of a battery-operated propeller beanie or a blinkenlight shirt, clothing shouldn't distract you for more than a second or two.
whatever. if these hoodlums would quit trying to act like thug naggers then they wouldnt have a problem. i guarantee if you walk into a NAACP office no one is dressed with their ass hanging out.
Fact Man:I live in St. Louis, where there are neighborhoods with mansions five blocks away from ghettos, and every time a law is passed to try to better a crime-affected area, there are board meetings trying to shut it down because it's discriminatory and targeting races (see my mall example above).
I think that's probably due to them seeing it as an effort from an outside group of people to control them.
They'd probably meet with more success if they went into the neighborhood, asked them how they can help them to help themselves improve the neighborhood, and provide them with the tools and funding necessary.
ZachF81:I was driving home from a holiday fireworks show in downtown Cincinnati one night, and stopped at a red light in the worst neighborhood in town. A black guy, probably around 20, walked across the cross walk with "low pants" that were low enough to expose pubes, ass crack, and ass pubes as he passed. I had an urge to run him over.
I'm not racist, but neither I, my friend, nor our girlfriends want to see that crap.
You just don't want your girlfriends knowing he was hung much better than you...
Theaetetus:If his behavior is distracting, there are already ways to deal with it. But short of a battery-operated propeller beanie or a blinkenlight shirt, clothing shouldn't distract you for more than a second or two.
Idunno, I often find certain women's outfits (or lack their of) very distracting. Guys, not so much.
Hibno 2008-03-27 12:40:41 PM Wow, the NAACP is not too popular on fark.
I can see their point, though.
1. A particular fashion is popular among black males. 2. Said fashion is banned by Florida(who would have thought).
Black males had their fashion banned. What's so hard about that?
If khaki shorts and pastel polo shirts were banned, you know damn well all us pale-ass farkers would be up in arms.
I don't care what hugh the man sponsoring this bill is, KevinC. It's not going to change the fact that this is going to affect black males (and probably young women) the most. It's one group of people telling another group of people what to do, and that ain't right.
it isn't a black thing, it's what's appropriate. Making this all about race is ignorant unless what you're saying is that black kids are so stupid that they don't even know what size pants to buy. Yeah, I know it started with rappers and the whole prisoner deal but the bottom line is that it's nothing more than jeans hanging below the ass. I don't give a rats ass if someone has so little respect for themselves that they would dress that way, but I have no problem forcing them to show some respect for others in society.
We already have plenty of laws for that very reason.
Disparate impact arguments are retarded. A law that is this facially neutral is by definition not discriminatory. At the same time, allowing stupid people to be stupid serves a valuable sorting function. Those people who want to cut themselves out of the job market, housing market, and polite society can go ahead and do so.
ya know. I'm the average white guy, 26 yo good job, kid, and girlfriend. I like guns, cars, and the occasional beer, I am not a big fan of rap, I don't wear my pants saggy, I wear them comfortable. And I just came in here to say, I don't like ties, all of you old assholes who wear these multi colored ties, you distract me from my work and your ties look like shiat, I myself am going to campaign and enact a law that would prohibit all of you farktards from wearing ties, if you chose to wear a tie you get one warning. After that one warning you will be sent home from work. If you chose to disobey you will be labeled a troublemaker and arrested for disturbing my peace. I don't like ties therefor ties = banned
SchlingFo:Fact Man: I live in St. Louis, where there are neighborhoods with mansions five blocks away from ghettos, and every time a law is passed to try to better a crime-affected area, there are board meetings trying to shut it down because it's discriminatory and targeting races (see my mall example above).
I think that's probably due to them seeing it as an effort from an outside group of people to control them.
They'd probably meet with more success if they went into the neighborhood, asked them how they can help them to help themselves improve the neighborhood, and provide them with the tools and funding necessary.
.02
That sounds nice, but that's assuming they want help in the first place. If you've lived around these areas, you know that an outside source has to help them.
90supraT:ya know. I'm the average white guy, 26 yo good job, kid, and girlfriend. I like guns, cars, and the occasional beer, I am not a big fan of rap, I don't wear my pants saggy, I wear them comfortable. And I just came in here to say, I don't like ties, all of you old assholes who wear these multi colored ties, you distract me from my work and your ties look like shiat, I myself am going to campaign and enact a law that would prohibit all of you farktards from wearing ties, if you chose to wear a tie you get one warning. After that one warning you will be sent home from work. If you chose to disobey you will be labeled a troublemaker and arrested for disturbing my peace. I don't like ties therefor ties = banned
/I see what I did there
I hope the Burger King where you work isn't in a downtown business area...
Doubleodoug:This IS discriminatory against plumbers everywhere. I'd like to see what the plumber's union has to say about this!!
You think you're joking, but the plumber's did protest when Florida passed a law against saggy pants. They argued that their profession required that they wear heavy toolbelts which tend to cause pants to sag. Two senators proposed an amendment exempting plumbers from the law, but it didn't pass.
You can read about it here: (Scroll down a few stories on the page) http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Quirks/2008/03/13/jockstrip_the_world_as_we_know_it /8121/
My suggestion: Get a bunch of old Jewish dudes to walk around saggin'. A bunch of middle-aged crackers, too, saggin' around. Teen agers be sportin' a suit & tie in a month.
Theaetetus:Barakku: That's kinda different, assuming this law is actually being used to prevent "indecent exposure," which would be a crime.
So this law has an exception if the low-pants-wearer has his boxers pulled up normally? It's really about exposed skin rather than pants height?
I'm reasonably sure that underwear counts as indecent exposure though, if worn like that. Someone head for the police station in tighty whities to be sure.
Wearing your pants low. Its not just a stupid trend. Its a sign of stupidity.
I'm pretty sure the dirty pigs prefer chasing after these dumbasses who constantly have to drag their pants while running away from the cops. The dirty pigs could beat these idiots for all I care.
Rich enough to show off your trendy boxers, but broke enough that you can't afford a decent belt.
whitefangz:Doubleodoug: This IS discriminatory against plumbers everywhere. I'd like to see what the plumber's union has to say about this!!
You think you're joking, but the plumber's did protest when Florida passed a law against saggy pants. They argued that their profession required that they wear heavy toolbelts which tend to cause pants to sag. Two senators proposed an amendment exempting plumbers from the law, but it didn't pass.
You can read about it here: (Scroll down a few stories on the page) http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Quirks/2008/03/13/jockstrip_the_world_as_we_know_it /8121/
Dubya's_Coke_Dealer 2008-03-27 12:48:49 PM My suggestion: Get a bunch of old Jewish dudes to walk around saggin'. A bunch of middle-aged crackers, too, saggin' around. Teen agers be sportin' a suit & tie in a month.
dallashockey:whatever. if these hoodlums would quit trying to act like thug naggers then they wouldnt have a problem. i guarantee if you walk into a NAACP office no one is dressed with their ass hanging out.
How do you know they are "hoodlums" and "are trying to act like ____" you don't know shiat.
People like you should be banned, imo. Should that mean we should enact a law, because of your own ignorance and inner hate? I think that would be more relevant.
GET OVER IT!
Things like this only make people want to do it more, just to piss you off because it obviously really bothers you THAT MUCH and you need to be taught a lesson in "mind your own freaking business, loser"
So suggesting that blacks are more likely to follow a certain trend is racist, but suggesting that a trend will disproportionately affect blacks is not hypocritical? Got it!
Fark U:I live in a hotbed of this "anti-sag lawmaking" and even i can see clearly this is all 100% discriminatory... Whether it's racial, cultural, or just plain ignorance, it's all "discrimination" under the constitutional rights of this great country we live in.
Dress codes are allowed in schools. I think there is a legit complaint of being able to see underwear being a distraction in the classroom.
As I said earlier part of me thinks it is stupid, but the state having the law alleviates the school worrying about where to draw the line and being concerned over lawsuits.
I was talking to my cousin who used to work gang related homicides, and he said that the majority of the time they would find these kids shot in the back with their pants around their ankles.
He firmly believed that if they had been wearing their pants normally, they would have been able to run away.
sigdiamond2000:I tell ya, it warms my heart to see Fark's resident "small" government "conservatives" up in arms over this useless and unnecessary law.
What integrity!
Since we insist on keeping government in control of schools, it's within the government's rights to determine the school's dress code. If all schools were private, they could ban this style of dress as they see fit, or not.
mrsirjojo:So suggesting that blacks are more likely to follow a certain trend is racist, but suggesting that a trend will disproportionately affect blacks is not hypocritical? Got it!
suggesting that blacks are more likely to follow a certain trend is not, in any way shape or form "racist". Actually singling them out for punishment for following said trend is, by definition "racist"
Whoopty Rape Angel:1) The bill is discriminatory. Any argument to the contrary is intellectually dishonest.
2) The bill is a stupid waste of legislative time (and our money)
3) The NAACP does not deserve all of the derision heaped upon it by whiney white guys (and gals)
4) Pull up your damn pants! You look like an idiot!
Um...Name one thing the NAACP has done in recent years except make blacks look pathetic? All they do is try and support the very worst of people from the law, under the guise of usually utterly fabricated racism. They seem to have a fetish for picking the worst possible dregs of society, and acting like that's the typical black person, and they're their to help in their assault trial because the victim was white.
If I were black I'd be pissed as hell at these idiots representing me. They're like Obama's preacher, but enough to fark over every black person in America.
/When people see a successful black person, they think affirmative action; thanks, NAACP, for keeping it real //Like in the 50's
sigdiamond2000:I tell ya, it warms my heart to see Fark's resident "small" government "conservatives" up in arms over this useless and unnecessary law.
What integrity!
Hey! I'm a small government conservative, and I do not want to see this law.
rewind2846:If they really want to make a difference why don't they include whaletails, "juicy" sweatpants on underage girls, and tramp-stamps in the bill?
kc987654:90supraT: ya know. I'm the average white guy, 26 yo good job, kid, and girlfriend. I like guns, cars, and the occasional beer, I am not a big fan of rap, I don't wear my pants saggy, I wear them comfortable. And I just came in here to say, I don't like ties, all of you old assholes who wear these multi colored ties, you distract me from my work and your ties look like shiat, I myself am going to campaign and enact a law that would prohibit all of you farktards from wearing ties, if you chose to wear a tie you get one warning. After that one warning you will be sent home from work. If you chose to disobey you will be labeled a troublemaker and arrested for disturbing my peace. I don't like ties therefor ties = banned
/I see what I did there
I hope the Burger King where you work isn't in a downtown business area...
actually I wear a tie to work, I was just proving a point.
mrsirjojo:So suggesting that blacks are more likely to follow a certain trend is racist, but suggesting that a trend will disproportionately affect blacks is not hypocritical? Got it!
This originated in the prison system. Guys were forced to wear their pants this way to show that they were "biatches", the lowered pants symbolizing an always-ready anus.
So that's what these kids are emulating. Being arse-whores. That's so gangsta!
FTA:Other groups such as the Advancement Project, a Washington social advocacy organization, say the proposal is directed primarily at black males and could lead to arrests.
This is not racially discriminatory. It is discrimination, but against idiots, not blacks.
Whoopty Rape Angel:mrsirjojo: So suggesting that blacks are more likely to follow a certain trend is racist, but suggesting that a trend will disproportionately affect blacks is not hypocritical? Got it!
suggesting that blacks are more likely to follow a certain trend is not, in any way shape or form "racist". Actually singling them out for punishment for following said trend is, by definition "racist"
clear things up for you?
racial =/ racist
Taxes disproportionately affect white people since we have jobs but you don't see us crying racism.
Um...Name one thing the NAACP has done in recent years except make blacks look pathetic? All they do is try and support the very worst of people from the law, under the guise of usually utterly fabricated racism. They seem to have a fetish for picking the worst possible dregs of society, and acting like that's the typical black person, and they're their to help in their assault trial because the victim was white.
If I were black I'd be pissed as hell at these idiots representing me. They're like Obama's preacher, but enough to fark over every black person in America.
/When people see a successful black person, they think affirmative action; thanks, NAACP, for keeping it real //Like in the 50's
Sadly, this is very, very true. Take for example, Bill Cosby, toured, encouraging black youth to start to value education more, stop trying to live and value the "gangsta rap" lifestyle, stop dressing like you don't belong in sophisticated society, etc., and of course the NAACP applauded his efforts to encourage these kids ostracized and condemned him.
90supraT:ya know. I'm the average white guy, 26 yo good job, kid, and girlfriend. I like guns, cars, and the occasional beer, I am not a big fan of rap, I don't wear my pants saggy, I wear them comfortable. And I just came in here to say, I don't like ties, all of you old assholes who wear these multi colored ties, you distract me from my work and your ties look like shiat, I myself am going to campaign and enact a law that would prohibit all of you farktards from wearing ties, if you chose to wear a tie you get one warning. After that one warning you will be sent home from work. If you chose to disobey you will be labeled a troublemaker and arrested for disturbing my peace. I don't like ties therefor ties = banned
/I see what I did there
Except this isn't a public ban. It is a ban in school.
vonster:If onlymostly black kids shot peoplesold crack, would it be racist to prosecute them for shootingselling crack people?
you are an idiot. why on earth would you support hoodlums. oh. maybe one of them is your offspring. ANYONE who wears their pants like that is an absolute moron. no questions.
Barakku:Whoopty Rape Angel: 1) The bill is discriminatory. Any argument to the contrary is intellectually dishonest.
2) The bill is a stupid waste of legislative time (and our money)
3) The NAACP does not deserve all of the derision heaped upon it by whiney white guys (and gals)
4) Pull up your damn pants! You look like an idiot!
Um...Name one thing the NAACP has done in recent years except make blacks look pathetic? All they do is try and support the very worst of people from the law, under the guise of usually utterly fabricated racism. They seem to have a fetish for picking the worst possible dregs of society, and acting like that's the typical black person, and they're their to help in their assault trial because the victim was white.
If I were black I'd be pissed as hell at these idiots representing me. They're like Obama's preacher, but enough to fark over every black person in America.
/When people see a successful black person, they think affirmative action; thanks, NAACP, for keeping it real //Like in the 50's
I see that you have had your fair share of the FARK Kool-Aid regarding the NAACP. While it is true that they do take some objectionable cases (the only ones you hear about, btw) the vast majority of their work involves real cases of racial discrimination.
They work for the betterment of our country, not against it.
Diogenes:GWShenlong05: No, but there is almost always a tinge of bigotry behind sumptuary laws. The zoot suit ban, for instance, was directed at hispanics - the people who could often be found wearing them.
"Low pants" laws are in themselves sumptuary laws. So the NAACP is correct, even if they do sound like whiners.
True, but you're right at the bottom of a slippery slope. If a law is broken most often by a minority group, do we not enforce it for fear of being discriminatory (the advisability of the law notwithstanding)?
I think the real slippery slope is when communities make laws regarding how clothing should or shouldn't be worn. There are already laws covering indecent exposure.
hard2bnice:Instead of making laws like this, why don't they just make school uniforms mandatory and call it a day?
They tried that here in Dekalb County (Metro ATL) but the successful and attractive African-American babymommas raised such a stink and asked for so many exceptions that the idea was abandoned. Many of them flat out refused to comply.
you are an idiot. why on earth would you support hoodlums. oh. maybe one of them is your offspring. ANYONE who wears their pants like that is an absolute moron. no questions.
Good thing being stupid is legal. Otherwise most of you would be in prison.
spacechicken170am:Whoopty Rape Angel: mrsirjojo: So suggesting that blacks are more likely to follow a certain trend is racist, but suggesting that a trend will disproportionately affect blacks is not hypocritical? Got it!
suggesting that blacks are more likely to follow a certain trend is not, in any way shape or form "racist". Actually singling them out for punishment for following said trend is, by definition "racist"
clear things up for you?
racial =/ racist
Taxes disproportionately affect white people since we have jobs but you don't see us crying racism.
/yeah I went there /it's true /pull up your pants
do you know what the employment rate is for African-Americans?
Thought not. Deal with your ignorance before you post again. kthnxbai!
Whoopty Rape Angel:suggesting that blacks are more likely to follow a certain trend is not, in any way shape or form "racist". Actually singling them out for punishment for following said trend is, by definition "racist"
clear things up for you?
racial =/ racist
They aren't being singled out. The law isn't only for black people.
Whoopty Rape Angel:spacechicken170am: Whoopty Rape Angel: mrsirjojo: So suggesting that blacks are more likely to follow a certain trend is racist, but suggesting that a trend will disproportionately affect blacks is not hypocritical? Got it!
suggesting that blacks are more likely to follow a certain trend is not, in any way shape or form "racist". Actually singling them out for punishment for following said trend is, by definition "racist"
clear things up for you?
racial =/ racist
Taxes disproportionately affect white people since we have jobs but you don't see us crying racism.
/yeah I went there /it's true /pull up your pants
do you know what the employment rate is for African-Americans?
Thought not. Deal with your ignorance before you post again. kthnxbai!
Almost 10% compared to roughly 5% for whites and a little over 3% for Asians. kthanxgofarkurself
A large case of LOSE for the NAACP. How unsavory must it be for the NAACP to defend the classless culture of low pants and showing off your underoos? Defending this is like defending racism. A black man walks into a job interview with his pants sagging down to his ankles showing off is oh-so-uncool boxers. You think he'll get the job? No. It only gives racists ammo when they see this kind of idiotic "culture".
If the NAACP actually wanted the ADVANCEMENT of COLORED PEOPLE they would be all in favor of the bill outlawing a cultural phenomoenon which ONLY holds colored people back.
The NAACP has NO clue about doing what they intend to do. In fact they do the exact opposite.
Barakku:I'm reasonably sure that underwear counts as indecent exposure though, if worn like that. Someone head for the police station in tighty whities to be sure.
Define underwear. Some normal fashions look a lot like underwear.
nmiguy:A large case of LOSE for the NAACP. How unsavory must it be for the NAACP to defend the classless culture of low pants and showing off your underoos? Defending this is like defending racism. A black man walks into a job interview with his pants sagging down to his ankles showing off is oh-so-uncool boxers. You think he'll get the job? No. It only gives racists ammo when they see this kind of idiotic "culture".
If the NAACP actually wanted the ADVANCEMENT of COLORED PEOPLE they would be all in favor of the bill outlawing a cultural phenomoenon which ONLY holds colored people back.
The NAACP has NO clue about doing what they intend to do. In fact they do the exact opposite.
liam76:Whoopty Rape Angel: suggesting that blacks are more likely to follow a certain trend is not, in any way shape or form "racist". Actually singling them out for punishment for following said trend is, by definition "racist"
clear things up for you?
racial =/ racist
They aren't being singled out. The law isn't only for black people.
Nestea Plunge:Lord knows I've never seen white boys in low baggy pants. Hell no. Never. Ever. Even at the shopping mall. All the kids are wearing drainpipe trousers with Creepers, now, and quiff their hair up like Elvis.
MrKraclenutz:I say let them dress however they like. It makes it easier for me to determine who I need to watch closely to make sure they don't steal my wallet/ turn down for interviews.
Fact Man:Take for example, Bill Cosby, toured, encouraging black youth to start to value education more, stop trying to live and value the "gangsta rap" lifestyle, stop dressing like you don't belong in sophisticated society, etc., and of course the NAACP applauded his efforts to encourage these kids ostracized and condemned him.
And where did Bill Cosby tour? Soulja Boy album release parties? Def Comedy Jam audiences? Crack houses? No. He "toured" safe places to say those things, usually college audiences where people are already on the right track and interested in furthering themselves.
I'd like to see Bill Cosby spew his pudding-pop horseshiat on some Compton street corner.
So if we had a bill that just banned white males from wearing their pants too low, would that be okay with the NAACP? Also, shouldn't they change their name from the National Association for the Advancement of COLORED PEOPLE to the National Association for the Advancement of African-Americans, as to call a black person "colored" is usually considered to be an archaic yet still racist term?
I'd be okay with not having to see those white guys wearing a 2-sizes-too-large basketball jersey, a sideways hat, pants that could conceal a civil war gattling gun, and sporting a moustache with less than a dozen hairs.
I know what to expect when I read threads like this, I know how most farkers stand on this and similar issues, but it's just so damn disheartening. It's farking sad, this isn't about respect, it is about race. It's the same sickening feeling I get watching "Cops", or the nightly news for that matter.
spacechicken170am:Whoopty Rape Angel: spacechicken170am: Whoopty Rape Angel: mrsirjojo: So suggesting that blacks are more likely to follow a certain trend is racist, but suggesting that a trend will disproportionately affect blacks is not hypocritical? Got it!
suggesting that blacks are more likely to follow a certain trend is not, in any way shape or form "racist". Actually singling them out for punishment for following said trend is, by definition "racist"
clear things up for you?
racial =/ racist
Taxes disproportionately affect white people since we have jobs but you don't see us crying racism.
/yeah I went there /it's true /pull up your pants
do you know what the employment rate is for African-Americans?
Thought not. Deal with your ignorance before you post again. kthnxbai!
Almost 10% compared to roughly 5% for whites and a little over 3% for Asians. kthanxgofarkurself
Don't get mad at me, racist boy. I'm just pointing out the racist idiocy of your post by showing that 90% of African Americans are employed, making your "they don't work" comment patently foolish.
If they are going to pass this bill, then why don't they pass one that bans old men from hiking their trousers up past their belly buttons and exposing their old man junk. Guh.
libbynomore2:it isn't a black thing, it's what's appropriate. Making this all about race is ignorant unless what you're saying is that black kids are so stupid that they don't even know what size pants to buy. Yeah, I know it started with rappers and the whole prisoner deal but the bottom line is that it's nothing more than jeans hanging below the ass. I don't give a rats ass if someone has so little respect for themselves that they would dress that way, but I have no problem forcing them to show some respect for others in society.
We already have plenty of laws for that very reason.
How the hell does a person's pants cause you disrespect? Maybe you just need to mind your own business and swtich to decaf.
Ryan2065: I see enough white kids with that fashion to know it is also done by the white boys.
Plus I have no problem with schools having this kind of dress code.
Yeah, neither do I. I am all for school uniforms in some schools, but I think it's the job of indivisdual school boards, super-intendents, and principals to decide. Not a state legislature.
And you're right about white kids. It is negative for them, too. I still think the law is discriminatory, because unless the school a uniform policy anybody has a right to dress like that, and the state shouldn't be minding its own business.
My pants hang low. I'm smart and a good person. People tell me I'm white. This thread is more stupider than the NAACPs complaint. I don't know why i still come to fark.
nmiguy 2008-03-27 01:04:40 PM A large case of LOSE for the NAACP. How unsavory must it be for the NAACP to defend the classless culture of low pants and showing off your underoos? Defending this is like defending racism. A black man walks into a job interview with his pants sagging down to his ankles showing off is oh-so-uncool boxers. You think he'll get the job? No. It only gives racists ammo when they see this kind of idiotic "culture".
PRECISELY!
I would never hire someone who dresses this way. Not just because it's totally inappropriate, but because it's a clear sign self-loathing and lack of respect for one's self.
The irony is that the very same NAACP would accuse me of racial discrimination for refusing to hire these idiots. I will admit that I DO discriminate in hiring but it's not racial. I discriminate against stupid morons who think this type of dress is in any way acceptable and appropriate and like nearly every owner of a business, I always will.
Raccoonacorn:Man, let people wear what they want to wear.
If they are going to pass this bill, then why don't they pass one that bans old men from hiking their trousers up past their belly buttons and exposing their old man junk. Guh.
Not to mention fat girls with muffin-top bellies. Talk about offensive.
Hector Remarkable:I always thought the whole thing started as a way to conceal a weapon, and wearing them like that implied that you might be carrying.
Nope, started as a reference to prison, where clothes were uniformly ill-made and baggy.
Whoopty Rape Angel: They work for the betterment of our country, not against it.
Are you black? I'm just curious. You don't seem to understand why white people get so upset over the NAACPs actions. To us, they perpetuate the stereotype that all white people are racist and hate blacks and will do everything we can to keep them down.
This is completely untrue. I know plenty of people who come across as racist, myself included sometimes, that are not. There is a huge difference between gang-banging thugs and Obama and Condoleeza. Just because I can't stand the type of young black guy with his pants around his knees and chains around his neck who jaywalks slowly in front of my car, staring me down, does NOT mean I can't stand black people.
And i'm SICK of black people screaming "RACIST!" because "that is a part of their culture".. And i'm SICK of black people who call people like Obama or Condoleeza or Oprah "too white". WTF does that mean!? Smart, educated, sucessful black people are "too white"?? I didn't know that being smart, educated and sucessful was exclusive to the white population.
Diogenes:GWShenlong05: No, but there is almost always a tinge of bigotry behind sumptuary laws. The zoot suit ban, for instance, was directed at hispanics - the people who could often be found wearing them.
"Low pants" laws are in themselves sumptuary laws. So the NAACP is correct, even if they do sound like whiners.
True, but you're right at the bottom of a slippery slope. If a law is broken most often by a minority group, do we not enforce it for fear of being discriminatory (the advisability of the law notwithstanding)?
I'm curious that "minority group this" and "African American that" is being thrown about as folks verbally dance around this issue.
We've blurred racial discrimination and cultural discrimination. The NAACP automatically assumes that anything which attacks the culture adopted heavily by (but not solely) by African-American individuals automatically qualifies as racial discrimination.
This is cultural discrimination. I'm not sure a sumptuary law not specifically aimed at nationalistic emblems qualifies as racial discrimination. Instead, this law seems to go after the "gangsta" culture, a culture that spans multiple racial groups.
Let's face it - any form of sumptuary law that goes beyond "no shirt, no shoes, no service" is stupid in this day and age. We have far too many cultures mixing together to try and dictate a friggin' dress code. I'm just tired of hearing old white people try and comfort themselves by preventing "scary people" from being as visible. I don't care if your gang wears a suit and a tie with wingtips - it's still a gang. Outlawing one form of dress will simply make the gangs adopt different symbols.
xaks:People that dress like that are asshats, of some degree or another.
Here's the problem - are you against it because of your cultural sensibilities? Because you think anybody who dresses like that is an asshat?
Try and isolate why you detest the low-pants thing. I know why I hate it - because it glorifies being a stupid thug. It's not the pants, it's the thuggishness. So banning the pants is asinine.
Kyosuke:Even worse, IMHO. If the naughty bits are properly covered, then why is it the government's business how many layers of fabric cover them? Will going commando be outlawed next?
Sadly, yes. Many workplaces have skivvy codes which, granted, are quite different than even stupider laws. I wanted an idiot temp job while I finished up a degree, so I went to work schlepping around in a call center. First day of "training" included a lengthy section on dress code nonsense, much of which pertained to and revealed the prudish nature of the owners and their fretting over naughty bits. Underwear was a must.
Now, who's tasked with enforcing that rule and how they go about hiring that individual is beyond me.
GWShenlong05:twobux: How? Did MLK Jr. give the "I have a dream" speech with the top 2 inches of his boxers showing?
No, but there is almost always a tinge of bigotry behind sumptuary laws. The zoot suit ban, for instance, was directed at hispanics - the people who could often be found wearing them.
"Low pants" laws are in themselves sumptuary laws. So the NAACP is correct, even if they do sound like whiners.
+1 for proper use of the term "Sumptuary"
+ several thousand for properly understanding the issue. Law regulating dress are 99.99999% of the time aimed at clothes closely tied with an indentifiable minority group.
Whoopty Rape Angel: Don't get mad at me, racist boy. I'm just pointing out the racist idiocy of your post by showing that 90% of African Americans are employed, making your "they don't work" comment patently foolish.
Aren't you late for your Klan meeting?
Actually I was replying to your position that this law disproportionately affects black people by saying that taxes disproportionately affect white people but go ahead and call me names instead of actually arguing the issue at hand. You go you race crusader, you go. Stamp out racism wherever you find it and follow the path to righteousness. I'll convert myself to a life of tolerance and just disregard those evil real life statistics.
/aren't you racist by inferring that I'm white and a member of the klan? /o yes, yes you are /stupid hypocrite
Pontus and the Nail Drivers:Raccoonacorn: Man, let people wear what they want to wear.
If they are going to pass this bill, then why don't they pass one that bans old men from hiking their trousers up past their belly buttons and exposing their old man junk. Guh.
Not to mention fat girls with muffin-top bellies. Talk about offensive.
That mental image sent lunch to tomorrow, dinner tonight might be pushing it too.
Pink4Flower Whoopty Rape Angel: They work for the betterment of our country, not against it.
Are you black? I'm just curious. You don't seem to understand why white people get so upset over the NAACPs actions. To us, they perpetuate the stereotype that all white people are racist and hate blacks and will do everything we can to keep them down.
This is completely untrue. I know plenty of people who come across as racist, myself included sometimes, that are not. There is a huge difference between gang-banging thugs and Obama and Condoleeza. Just because I can't stand the type of young black guy with his pants around his knees and chains around his neck who jaywalks slowly in front of my car, staring me down, does NOT mean I can't stand black people.
And i'm SICK of black people screaming "RACIST!" because "that is a part of their culture".. And i'm SICK of black people who call people like Obama or Condoleeza or Oprah "too white". WTF does that mean!? Smart, educated, sucessful black people are "too white"?? I didn't know that being smart, educated and sucessful was exclusive to the white population.
/most people who think you're racist most likely aren't black
libbynomore2:I would never hire someone who dresses this way. Not just because it's totally inappropriate, but because it's a clear sign self-loathing and lack of respect for one's self.
Idunno, I feel a lot more self-loathing when I put on yet-another-ironed shirt to go work in a cubicle. My morning "I am a corporate whore" moment. I'd feel a lot more respect for myself if I could go to work in what I considered "good" clothes.
Hibno 2008-03-27 01:11:55 PM libbynomore2: it isn't a black thing, it's what's appropriate. Making this all about race is ignorant unless what you're saying is that black kids are so stupid that they don't even know what size pants to buy. Yeah, I know it started with rappers and the whole prisoner deal but the bottom line is that it's nothing more than jeans hanging below the ass. I don't give a rats ass if someone has so little respect for themselves that they would dress that way, but I have no problem forcing them to show some respect for others in society.
We already have plenty of laws for that very reason.
How the hell does a person's pants cause you disrespect? Maybe you just need to mind your own business and swtich to decaf.
What a stupid response to a reasoned point. I guess what you're saying that people should be able to just walk around wearing nothing but underwear? Yeah, and I suppose in your ignorance you think that makes you enlightened and open-minded?
No, it just makes you a classless and clueless idiot.
But fine, I'll mind my own business and NOT hire any of these morons to work for me, and I'll fight tooth and nail to ensure they receive not ONE DIME of taxpayer money because they are unable to get a job as a reault of their unbelieveable stupidity.
Maechyll:cubsfan07: I'd like to see Bill Cosby spew his pudding-pop horseshiat on some Compton street corner.
He couldn't. I think that's the point. ================================
Because all of the people on the "Compton street corner" think alike. Just like all of the people in YOUR neighborhood, right?
/all black people are not the same based on geography //don't know why this has to be explained repeatedly to a group of supposedly intelligent individuals
Pink4Flower:Whoopty Rape Angel: They work for the betterment of our country, not against it.
Are you black? I'm just curious. You don't seem to understand why white people get so upset over the NAACPs actions. To us, they perpetuate the stereotype that all white people are racist and hate blacks and will do everything we can to keep them down.
This is completely untrue. I know plenty of people who come across as racist, myself included sometimes, that are not. There is a huge difference between gang-banging thugs and Obama and Condoleeza. Just because I can't stand the type of young black guy with his pants around his knees and chains around his neck who jaywalks slowly in front of my car, staring me down, does NOT mean I can't stand black people.
And i'm SICK of black people screaming "RACIST!" because "that is a part of their culture".. And i'm SICK of black people who call people like Obama or Condoleeza or Oprah "too white". WTF does that mean!? Smart, educated, sucessful black people are "too white"?? I didn't know that being smart, educated and sucessful was exclusive to the white population.
I'm a 30 year old white male. I'm not talking about sitting around a campfire and singing kumaya(sp?) with all races represented here. I'm not talking about individuals and their feelings.
I'm taking issue with LAWS being passed that are directed at a specific group of people. As was stated earlier, would it be okay to outlaw khakis and polos if those in power decided that they didn't like their appearance?
The NAACP has had its foibles, but by and large they attempt to redress injustices perpetrated against blacks in a society that is, I'm sorry to say, still quite racist.
note: when I talk about racism I'm referring to the use of power to affect the lives of the non-dominant racial groups.
I'll leave race out of this story but it's still funny.
my step dad said he was walking out of a store once and here comes some guy with a drink in one hand, bags of stuff in another talking on his cell.... look'n cool as ice...
his pants were already low, but when he stepped over a curb they fell, and fell more and more with each step after that.... until there he was, trying not to drop the drink, cell phone to his ear holding it with his shoulder, bags in the other hand and trying to pull up his pants that now made it down past his knees.
WCHeadhunter:They tried that here in Dekalb County (Metro ATL) but the successful and attractive African-American babymommas raised such a stink and asked for so many exceptions that the idea was abandoned. Many of them flat out refused to comply.
I see the police also like to dress like Darth Donut against peaceful demonstrators. Is it something in the drinking water there?
But fine, I'll mind my own business and NOT hire any of these morons to work for me, and I'll fight tooth and nail to ensure they receive not ONE DIME of taxpayer money because they are unable to get a job as a reault of their unbelieveable stupidity.
You need a hobby. Good luck with saving the world.
vonster:If only black kids shot people, would it be racist to prosecute them for shooting people?
well along those same lines, it sure seems racist to make the penalties for crack possession exponentially worse than that of coke possession. does it not? see what i am getting at here?
I would never hire someone who dresses this way. Not just because it's totally inappropriate, but because it's a clear sign self-loathing and lack of respect for one's self.
The irony is that the very same NAACP would accuse me of racial discrimination for refusing to hire these idiots. I will admit that I DO discriminate in hiring but it's not racial. I discriminate against stupid morons who think this type of dress is in any way acceptable and appropriate and like nearly every owner of a business, I always will.
If anyone walked into an interview wearing saggy pants, and used pop-culture slang to communicate then they are destined for... well nothing.
Funny how inner-city ghetto, and country trash look and sound so similar yet seem to have the greatest loathing for each other.
wilfridcyrus:My pants hang low. I'm smart and a good person. People tell me I'm white. This thread is more stupider than the NAACPs complaint. I don't know why i still come to fark.
FormlessOne: I don't care if your gang wears a suit and a tie with wingtips - it's still a gang. Outlawing one form of dress will simply make the gangs adopt different symbols.?
Ladies and gentlemen, listen to these people. They are showing you what's wrong. People putting their clothes on backwards. Isn't that a sign of something going on wrong? Are you not paying attention? People with their hat on backwards, pants down around the crack. Isn't that a sign of something or are you waiting for Jesus to pull his pants up? Isn't it a sign of something when she's got her dress all the way up to the crack -- and got all kinds of needles and things going through her body. What part of Africa did this come from? We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans; they don't know a damned thing about Africa.
Milpool:NAACP needs to focus more on advancing colored people and not defending their animalistic tendencies.
On the second bit there, I'll just say that I agree with Bill Cosby, and that it's not all blacks.
But I'd like to ask; how the hell are they advancing black people at this point? All they seem to do to me is make sure race stays in everyone's mind, and that anytime two people of different races interact, racism will occur. Bringing racism to light was important 50+ years ago, when there was real racism, and rampant acts of discrimination based on that. Now the NAACP fosters probably the majority of remaining racism, through the culture of guilt inflicted on whites, and culture of victimization inflicted on blacks.
If you want to advance people, the best way is through education and jobs; why isn't the NAACP a large scale Negro college fund or something (does that still exist)? If every dollar they spent on furthering the cause of racial politics were used on education, blacks and the US as a whole would benefit greatly.
This 2008-03-27 01:16:18 PM libbynomore2: I would never hire someone who dresses this way. Not just because it's totally inappropriate, but because it's a clear sign self-loathing and lack of respect for one's self.
Idunno, I feel a lot more self-loathing when I put on yet-another-ironed shirt to go work in a cubicle. My morning "I am a corporate whore" moment. I'd feel a lot more respect for myself if I could go to work in what I considered "good" clothes.
yeah, you're probably right, wearing an ironed shirt with slacks and ( gulp ) maybe even a tie and going to work to pay your own way is a clear sign of self-loathing.
Sheesh.
Tell you what, if you feel so bad about yourself for doing that, just quit and move in to your card board box condo under a bridge somewhere and feel good about yourself.
better yet, why not start your own business and then you can let your employess dress any damn way they please....then, when you go out of business, at least you can say " you did it your ( stupid ) way. "
Barakku:You can't exactly call anti murder laws drisciminatory because more people of some ethnic group perform murders (You'll probably find that every law is broken by a different ratio of ethnicities). It has to be racially motivated. Stupid whites and blacks do this. Not racial (but unless there's performing indecent exposure, not really enforceable either).
yah, i would say making it illegal to kill another person is akin to showing your boxers. I can see how one would make that argument
Barakku:Milpool: NAACP needs to focus more on advancing colored people and not defending their animalistic tendencies.
On the second bit there, I'll just say that I agree with Bill Cosby, and that it's not all blacks.
But I'd like to ask; how the hell are they advancing black people at this point? All they seem to do to me is make sure race stays in everyone's mind, and that anytime two people of different races interact, racism will occur. Bringing racism to light was important 50+ years ago, when there was real racism, and rampant acts of discrimination based on that. Now the NAACP fosters probably the majority of remaining racism, through the culture of guilt inflicted on whites, and culture of victimization inflicted on blacks.
If you want to advance people, the best way is through education and jobs; why isn't the NAACP a large scale Negro college fund or something (does that still exist)? If every dollar they spent on furthering the cause of racial politics were used on education, blacks and the US as a whole would benefit greatly.
I know you're not a racist, but you are wrong about the NAACP. They fight a lot of good fights. Read up on them. We only hear about the dumb stuff, which can be very damning.
Barakku:If you want to advance people, the best way is through education and jobs; why isn't the NAACP a large scale Negro college fund or something (does that still exist)?
Whoopty Rape Angel:liam76: Whoopty Rape Angel: suggesting that blacks are more likely to follow a certain trend is not, in any way shape or form "racist". Actually singling them out for punishment for following said trend is, by definition "racist"
clear things up for you?
racial =/ racist
They aren't being singled out. The law isn't only for black people.
go hit Google and look up "sumptuary laws"
History is your friend.
I am familiar with sumptuary laws. They are not intrinsicly tied to race, in fact off the top of my head more of them had to do with social standing and behavior than race.
I am talking about your attempt to draw a line on what is and what isn't racist. You said it is racist because the law singles out blacks, which it doesn't.
SirGunslinger:If anyone walked into an interview wearing saggy pants, and used pop-culture slang to communicate then they are destined for... well nothing. 4Chan
Maybe it's for their own good. It can't be good for your posture to have to hold your pants up with one hand with your baby under your arm and your cell phone in the other hand.
Then if you have to go for your gat, you have one hell of a decision to make.
AlwaysRightBoy:Hairfool: Has anyone mentioned that wearing baggy pants makes it harder for people to run away?
I like the stories of the yuths that trip up after they rob a store. /make's me Hah Ha
We all like those stories, but the amount of people who don't read the thread and then post repeatedly the same one line with no amusing story to back it up pisses me off.
/cue people posting "wearing baggy pants makes it harder for people to run away"
liam76:Whoopty Rape Angel: liam76: Whoopty Rape Angel: suggesting that blacks are more likely to follow a certain trend is not, in any way shape or form "racist". Actually singling them out for punishment for following said trend is, by definition "racist"
clear things up for you?
racial =/ racist
They aren't being singled out. The law isn't only for black people.
go hit Google and look up "sumptuary laws"
History is your friend.
I am familiar with sumptuary laws. They are not intrinsicly tied to race, in fact off the top of my head more of them had to do with social standing and behavior than race.
I am talking about your attempt to draw a line on what is and what isn't racist. You said it is racist because the law singles out blacks, which it doesn't.
yes it does. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise. Do you really think this would be an issue if it were a "white" thing? No, it would not.
acurus:MrKraclenutz: acurus: Oh, I figured it out. I just wanted to see if you had the conviction to eschew obfuscation.
Nope, I'm being forthright in my assertion that dressing like this is a willful act of ignorance. If you want to dress like a complete retard, fine. By all means do so. Just don't come crying to me when the inevitable consequences rear their ugly heads.
People (like me) are going to look at you as a thug.
You've utterly failed to explain why white boys should know better.
Well duh! Thuggery isn't on the White boy model as standard, it is an aftermarket option unlike the darkeys! Jeebus boy, what you stupid????
\Somebody call the man \\Tired of him keeping us down \\\That was an assinine comment all around \\\\Big baggy drawers are no different \\Then bellbottoms or parachute pants \\\\Get over it \\\Get hip \\Bought to get me \A gold tooth
"I am talking about your attempt to draw a line on what is and what isn't racist. You said it is racist because the law singles out blacks, which it doesn't."
It should. It should exempt black people and make it actually CRIMINAL for white people. Damn Afro-Saxons piss me off.
papabusche:vonster: If only black kids shot people, would it be racist to prosecute them for shooting people?
well along those same lines, it sure seems racist to make the penalties for crack possession exponentially worse than that of coke possession. does it not? see what i am getting at here?
Watching COPS it seems most of the users are white.
Whoopty Rape Angel 2008-03-27 01:28:10 PM Barakku: Derek313: This reminds me of a Sanford and Son episode I watched the other day.
"I'll never donate to the NAACP!"-Hobo "Good,and I'll never donate to the KKK!"-Fred
To restate my points about the NAACP, This.
/Sanford & Son FTW //You big dummy
The NAACP is the same as the KKK?
A group fighting for the rights of an oppressed group is the same as a band of murdering cowards who terrorized the population for decades?
OK, I'm with you on trying to compare the NAACP to the KKK. but PLEASE, with regard to defending dressing like a slob and/or a gang banger is " fighting for the rights of an oppressed group ???"
Marla Singer's Laundry:More like, "I'm having hot flashes! Cover up, you little harlot!"
It is a little awkward to have a woody in public, you know. I mean, if I were allowed to just enjoy the sight, that'd be one thing - but being attracted to a woman means you're a pervert unless the feeling is mutual.
Hell yes, I enjoy the sight of a nice ass... but nobody enjoys the sight of me enjoying the sight of the nice ass. And since it's actively frustrating to avoid enjoying the sight of the nice ass, I'd rather the nice ass wasn't visible.
I'll be happy to see exposed thongs once staring stops being a taboo.
Pink4Flower:Whoopty Rape Angel: They work for the betterment of our country, not against it.
Are you black? I'm just curious. You don't seem to understand why white people get so upset over the NAACPs actions. To us, they perpetuate the stereotype that all white people are racist and hate blacks and will do everything we can to keep them down.
Do you really think that black people need the NAACP to tell us the state of race relations? You're young and kind of dumb, so you assume the average black person is in tune with the NAACP, Farrakhan, and the ghost of Malcolm X and we're all just waiting for the right moment to go to war for reperations. Your idiotic, uneducated assumption is incorrect. I would bet my sons college fund that there aren't two people in my extended family who know or care about low pants legislation. And my 25 year old BLACK co-worker, who I just told about this story, thinks the law is a GOOD IDEA because SHE'S "tired of looking at people's asses". Black people are not a singular entity with one mind. Stop being so intellectually lazy and lumping us all in for the sake of your tired argument.
This is completely untrue. I know plenty of people who come across as racist, myself included sometimes, that are not. There is a huge difference between gang-banging thugs and Obama and Condoleeza. Just because I can't stand the type of young black guy with his pants around his knees and chains around his neck who jaywalks slowly in front of my car, staring me down, does NOT mean I can't stand black people. And i'm SICK of black people screaming "RACIST!" because "that is a part of their culture".. And i'm SICK of black people who call people like Obama or Condoleeza or Oprah "too white". WTF does that mean!? Smart, educated, sucessful black people are "too white"?? I didn't know that being smart, educated and sucessful was exclusive to the white population.
Babygirl, it's time to go back and get some new talking points. The myth of the "good Negro" should be debunked in your mind when you realize that Barack Obama was once a coke snorting, weed smoking, young black man. And had you met him 25 years ago he would be on your list of the type of black people to hate. And stop making shiat up. Black people LOVE Oprah, are voting in record numbers for Obama, and hate Condeleeza because she is a Republican. The concensus attitude is not to hate their success, as you alleged.
This:Marla Singer's Laundry: More like, "I'm having hot flashes! Cover up, you little harlot!"
It is a little awkward to have a woody in public, you know. I mean, if I were allowed to just enjoy the sight, that'd be one thing - but being attracted to a woman means you're a pervert unless the feeling is mutual.
Hell yes, I enjoy the sight of a nice ass... but nobody enjoys the sight of me enjoying the sight of the nice ass. And since it's actively frustrating to avoid enjoying the sight of the nice ass, I'd rather the nice ass wasn't visible. .
Marla Singer's Laundry:jynxyu: Marla Singer's Laundry: You guys are wrong about the prison thing. It's because they take your belt away in holding...suicide, etc.
You'll get a uniform when you end up in the pen. Just like on TV.
I love the slip on sneakers too!
/good to see you back, was ya hiding?
Dude, I've been so busy.
People are still posting on the SJP thread. My finest hour.
Don't tell anyone we were in the mixed-sex cell. Could ruin the fun.
Was that a cat running past me? Why are you holding a bag?
/you're always great to watch... //on fark ///would watch you if i knew where you lived, need a personal stalker?
none of those pictures show their faces. They could be ugly girls. So, we need more pictures of hot asses with g-strings sticking out, I mean their faces
I really don't care what people wear on their own time, but when I see somebody defending wanting to wear their clubbing clothes to work, I know I'm dealing with someone destined to fight losing battles. And it's not about baggy pants, it's about this asinine notion that work is the place where you go to express yourself.
So if you don't know any better than to show up to a job interview with your undies sticking out the top of your pants, you don't really deserve a job.
Do you know how many murders are committed by black males a year? Thought not, just half of the 17000 each year, make 9/11 look like a cake walk.
http://www.thugreport.com/
If the truth makes one an asshole then yes, I'm an asshole too.
Where's 9/11? Is that a place where an entire race of people where forced into slavery then after a civil war where segregated and are still systematically denied the same treatment from legislators and lawmakers? Wow, then you're right, black males are horrible people.
/If the numbers don't make sense to you, then don't try to think "freely"
What is wrong with putting on a belt? If you go to work or court you are expected to look professional. Yeah my job allows me to wear jeans and a T-shirt but if I wore my pants around my ankles that policy would probably be changed and ruin it for everyone. Of course I could probably get away with having my pants around my ankles if I was a governor for New York or something.
/Oh no he did not just go there! //Oh yes he did ///Oh Snap!!
This:Marla Singer's Laundry: More like, "I'm having hot flashes! Cover up, you little harlot!"
It is a little awkward to have a woody in public, you know. I mean, if I were allowed to just enjoy the sight, that'd be one thing - but being attracted to a woman means you're a pervert unless the feeling is mutual.
Hell yes, I enjoy the sight of a nice ass... but nobody enjoys the sight of me enjoying the sight of the nice ass. And since it's actively frustrating to avoid enjoying the sight of the nice ass, I'd rather the nice ass wasn't visible.
I'll be happy to see exposed thongs once staring stops being a taboo.
I think you need to start wearing lab coats in public, I already do. We could start a new trend?
Baggie pants became "attributable" to blacks not from a fashion motivator but an economic one. Black parents would buy their children's clothes sized two or three years beyond their current need. So kids regularly had baggy clothes.
Eventually, over time, outsiders who witnessed this mistook it for a "statement" and as such took-off with it as a fashion meme. It wasn't until later that black fashion, FUBU, etc, would partially recapture the trend for themselves but by that time the traditionally white retailers like Gap and white textile conglomerates a la Levi's Jeans had already co-opted the look.
You'd have to ask my wife. Who, by the way, also does not enjoy the sight of me enjoying a sight.
I suck.
Either way, it kinda reaffirms my point - if you're going to dress for show, it's hardly fair to be choosy about who takes a gander.
I mean, it's one thing if a creepy freaky guy starts spanking it in public - but if Joe blue-collar-schmuck stares at your ass when you walk by, it's not really fair to stare daggers back at him.
Let me just be clear: I think that neither pervert, nor slut, should be bad words. It's just not fair to have one without the other. You can't let men be letches without letting women exploit that, and you can't let woman dress slutty without letting men enjoy the show.
They want attention, we're giving it to them. I just spent a year in county jail awaiting jury trial. (Not Guilty, by the way) What started as an advertisement for sex is now just another way to pis* everyone else off by showing them something you know irritates them and they do not want to see.
BUT... if YOU say something about it, then YOU are the one with the problem, YOU are the agitator, and YOU are the racist. ALWAYS, and I mean ALWAYS, THE RACE CARD!
And if you don't agree, or at least say you agree, with them, then they'll run up on you with their brothers, cousins, uncles, and fellow "organization" members and make sure you see things their way.
Then they steal your commissary and go back to the domino table looking for the next victim. (Usually their brother, cousin, uncle or fellow "member").
It is dicriminatory. Boxers are not genitals. Undergarments cover your body as much as swimwear does, so unless we are going to ban going to a public beach in ones swim trunks or a bikini, no one has the right to ban sagging pants, whether worn by blacks or whites. It is a matter of taste, and taste is not a matter for legislation. Furthermore, it is and ought remain perfectly legal for me to walk down the side of the road in a pair of boxers and nothing else, so how could it be less legal for a black man to walk down the road in boxers that are only partially obscured by his pants?
OK, where does this low pants thing come from anyways? It comes from prison. When someone is taken to prison their belt is taken away from them so their pants will hang low on their hips. So by wearing your pants low it is to say that you have more street cred because you are in or just recently in prison. Oh boy, sign me up! I want to be more popular because I am a criminal. And people that dress like this wonder why they cannot hold a decent job.
Bukharin:Ladies and gentlemen, listen to these people. They are showing you what's wrong. People putting their clothes on backwards. Isn't that a sign of something going on wrong? Are you not paying attention? People with their hat on backwards, pants down around the crack. Isn't that a sign of something or are you waiting for Jesus to pull his pants up? Isn't it a sign of something when she's got her dress all the way up to the crack -- and got all kinds of needles and things going through her body. What part of Africa did this come from? We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans; they don't know a damned thing about Africa.
More: I'm talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit. Where were you when he was two? Where were you when he was twelve? Where were you when he was eighteen, and how come you don't know he had a pistol? And where is his father, and why don't you know where he is? And why doesn't the father show up to talk to this boy?
God I love that guy. He's really got it on the ball.
This speech, in some ways, applies to more than just the black community. *EVERYONE* should be parenting their kids. Good parenting is pan-racial (if that's even a word...if not, it should be). It's not just a black thing, it's a human thing.
All right, the heck with you guys -- I hope I don't get fired now... You kept talking about Clinton being "Low Pants Bill", and now every time I see the headline (or THINK of the headline), I think of good ol' Low Pants Bill and start snickering uncontrollably. At work. In a cube. Surrounded by -- everyone.
::snickering again:: But it's damn funny.
/'Low Pants Bill' //...goin' around glad-handing it up ///......must.... stop..... laughing...
Whoopty Rape Angel:I'm taking issue with LAWS being passed that are directed at a specific group of people.
It is not directed a specific group of people because it is not only a specific group of people who dress like this (unless by specific group you mean asshats)
As was stated earlier, would it be okay to outlaw khakis and polos if those in power decided that they didn't like their appearance?
You have a point here, but lets take a step back. They aren't outlawing anything. They are saying you can't wear it to school.
Now we have to answer two questions. Are dress codes ok, and what should they be able to allow/disallow.
I have no problems with dress codes, and haven't heard any soild arguments against them.
As to what they should be able to allow and disallow, it is very subjective. I don't find a rule that makes you keep your pants above you underwear as an overwhelming burden, or even as a burden. I don't see it flying the face of professional dress, cultural norms, or religiou beliefs. I do see it better preparing kids for looking for or having jobs in the real world. There is no clear moral right or wrong on this issue, imho. If elected lawmakers passed it then let the public have it. If they dislike it that much the lawmakers won't be re-elected and it will be repealed.
Whoopty Rape Angel:yes it does. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise. Do you really think this would be an issue if it were a "white" thing? No, it would not.
I do not see how you can convince yourself of that. I see no difference based on race. Where I live you are much more likely to see the top three inches of boxers on white guys then black guys.
I remember when I was in high school in the 60s. There was an attempt to ban long hair for males. Definitely a white thing (blame the Beatles). Blacks did not get into the big hair trend for another couple of years.
DROxINxTHExWIND: Do you really think that black people need the NAACP to tell us the state of race relations? You're young and kind of dumb, so you assume the average black person is in tune with the NAACP, Farrakhan, and the ghost of Malcolm X and we're all just waiting for the right moment to go to war for reperations. Your idiotic, uneducated assumption is incorrect. I would bet my sons college fund that there aren't two people in my extended family who know or care about low pants legislation. And my 25 year old BLACK co-worker, who I just told about this story, thinks the law is a GOOD IDEA because SHE'S "tired of looking at people's asses". Black people are not a singular entity with one mind. Stop being so intellectually lazy and lumping us all in for the sake of your tired argument.
I'm not saying that every black person is in tune with the NAACP, but when this type of shiat is flashed all over the news, and word spreads, to me, as a white girl, it feels like they are trying to perpetuate that all whites are out to keep the black man down. I'm not saying that all blacks are going to listen and agree.
Babygirl, it's time to go back and get some new talking points. The myth of the "good Negro" should be debunked in your mind when you realize that Barack Obama was once a coke snorting, weed smoking, young black man. And had you met him 25 years ago he would be on your list of the type of black people to hate. And stop making shiat up. Black people LOVE Oprah, are voting in record numbers for Obama, and hate Condeleeza because she is a Republican. The concensus attitude is not to hate their success, as you alleged.
I'm not lumping all black people in that catagory. I tried to get that across multiple times. Thats why I said "black people who" and not "all black people".. OBVIOUSLY not all black people think Oprah and Condeleeza and Obama are "too white" as they are black themselves. I'm talking about the type that DO say that. And trust me, they are out there and you know it. This came directly from an old black friend of mine. We got onto the subject of race, and I used them as examples of highly successful black people. This person then discredited it, because "they are too white".. Which I thought was STUPID.
I'm not saying I agree with this law. What i'm talking about doesn't really pertain to this law very much. I just think it's stupid to classify something as racist that isn't. Someone else pointed out, it is a subculture. There are thug white people, there are thug mexican people, there are thug black people. There is a difference between anger against thugs and anger against all blacks.
PeriRies:I really don't care what people wear on their own time, but when I see somebody defending wanting to wear their clubbing clothes to work, I know I'm dealing with someone destined to fight losing battles. And it's not about baggy pants, it's about this asinine notion that work is the place where you go to express yourself.
So if you don't know any better than to show up to a job interview with your undies sticking out the top of your pants, you don't really deserve a job.
/rant over //get off my lawn =====================================
Ok. Okaaaay! Fark! We all agree that there is a certain way that people should dress for a job interview. Now, STFU with this idiotic position. NOT ONE of you has ever gone to a job interview and seen a candidate dressed like a gangster. It's just something for you to say.
Pontus and the Nail Drivers:I know you're not a racist, but you are wrong about the NAACP. They fight a lot of good fights. Read up on them. We only hear about the dumb stuff, which can be very damning.
That goes for any organization with an agreeable set of ideals and a highly polarized, fanatic subset of members. PETA, NOW, NAACP, and so on. They start out well, but there's always a bunch of frothing freaks willing to take any idea, no matter how laudable, to an incredulous extreme.
But, I don't think the NAACP is doing that here. I do believe that the NAACP is confusing racial with cultural discrimination - the fact that the culture in question lines up well with the racial demographic that they're trying to support is unfortunate. Instead of claiming racism, I'd push for a clear legal justification as to why this particular sumptuary law is required and force the proponents to explain themselves.
drunkennewfiemidget:I see way more white kids doing this than black ones.
farking sheep.
Do you even know any black kids? Do they even have those in Ontario (outside of TO)?
Tommy Moo:It is dicriminatory. Boxers are not genitals. Undergarments cover your body as much as swimwear does, so unless we are going to ban going to a public beach in ones swim trunks or a bikini, no one has the right to ban sagging pants, whether worn by blacks or whites. It is a matter of taste, and taste is not a matter for legislation. Furthermore, it is and ought remain perfectly legal for me to walk down the side of the road in a pair of boxers and nothing else, so how could it be less legal for a black man to walk down the road in boxers that are only partially obscured by his pants?
My only question is why doesn't the NAACP support this instead of opposing it? Don't they want their youth to look and act more business like or educated so they can better themselves as a whole?
Fark-the-FnordOK, where does this low pants thing come from anyways? It comes from prison. When someone is taken to prison their belt is taken away from them so their pants will hang low on their hips. So by wearing your pants low it is to say that you have more street cred because you are in or just recently in prison. Oh boy, sign me up! I want to be more popular because I am a criminal. And people that dress like this wonder why they cannot hold a decent job.
No "they" don't, they've most likely already given up on the dream that they might ever have a decent job, and why should they. If you never show a man respect, why would a person ever think it will magically appear? But who will show these men respect? Their peers, or the people in the community who dress in the same way. Furthermore, within the past few decades "sagging" has become a tailored (no pun intended) style, you'll notice thin girls wear suspenders; these aren't to keep their size 2 shorts up.
Fark-the-Fnord:OK, where does this low pants thing come from anyways? It comes from prison. When someone is taken to prison their belt is taken away from them so their pants will hang low on their hips. So by wearing your pants low it is to say that you have more street cred because you are in or just recently in prison. Oh boy, sign me up! I want to be more popular because I am a criminal. And people that dress like this wonder why they cannot hold a decent job.
Christ, the ignorance in this thread is staggering... I had very baggy pants growing up. Want to know why? I was poor and would wear hand-me-downs, just like a lot of my other black friends. I have no idea where this whole theory of imitating "prison culture" came from, but it makes the people who push it look shockingly out of touch.
I believe the day will come that the NAACP will believe that african american males are just as capable as people of other ethnic backgrounds at pulling up their pants.
By the way, us older white males are automatically arrested for walking around in public with our pants around our knees (umm, so I've heard anyway). I think we can hold everyone to the same standards.
Fark U:Diogenes: It is the right of all African Americans to look like they don't know how to dress themselves!
/silly legislation //sillier naacp response
If not for the "silly legislation" there would be no "silly response" and therefore, no "silly discrimination"
I live in a hotbed of this "anti-sag lawmaking" and even i can see clearly this is all 100% discriminatory... Whether it's racial, cultural, or just plain ignorance, it's all "discrimination" under the constitutional rights of this great country we live in.
Too bad people can't read/comprehend simple concepts laid out by brilliant men some 232 years ago.
Well, they had slavery back then, so those brilliant men of yore may have had some comprehension problems themselves. Or could it be you?
Rev. WRight is no racist. In order to be a racist you have to be a member of the dominant racial group. It's about power.
According to the dictionary you're retarded.
Noun1.racist - a person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others
It's about superiority. No wonder you think all white people are racist. You don't know the definition of racist. You're just a crappy ripoff of the original Whoopty. If you believe that whites are the dominate or superior race then you are a racist.
This:drunkennewfiemidget: I see way more white kids doing this than black ones.
farking sheep.
Do you even know any black kids? Do they even have those in Ontario (outside of TO)?
Don't let the name confuse you; I'm sitting in an office at Spadina and Richmond right now in downtown Toronto.
That being said, I live in Cambridge -- southwest Galt -- which is whitetown Ontario (something like 98% white catholics; freaky I know.), but there's plenty of black people in the rest of Ontario (outside of galt, that is.) Frankly, I know it's entirely anecdotal, but I find black kid and teenagers to generally be more respectful, decent human beings than the average white kids I see today.
"Rev. WRight is no racist. In order to be a racist you have to be a member of the dominant racial group. It's about power."
Oh... Ahahahahahaha! Stop... LOL... Ahahahaha!
Ok... Ok... {Catching my breath...} Got it...
You've GOTTA be kidding me! What kind of Newspeak is this? THIS is how you simply explain away the good Rev.'s comments?
Well then, I'm of English and Germanic descent. Does that brand me to be an automatic racist now? shiate, you don't KNOW racism until you've heard the way hispanics talk about their sub-groups. Or Italians. Or Haitians. Or - guess what? ANYBODY.
Racism is picking a preference for a race - that's it. You're honestly going to tell me that 'African-Americans' don't take sides? Give me a break. You are totally delusional - stop drinking that Kool-Aid man! Clearly you can't look at this objectively, why not let the grownups solve this one for you?
Pink4Flower:I'm not saying that every black person is in tune with the NAACP, but when this type of shiat is flashed all over the news, and word spreads, to me, as a white girl, it feels like they are trying to perpetuate that all whites are out to keep the black man down. I'm not saying that all blacks are going to listen and agree.
I'm just curious... why is it that in most instances fark seems to agree that the media should be taken with a large grain of salt *except* when it comes to its portrayal of black people or the NAACP? The media always seems to have an agenda or pushing an opinion, but they are telling the truth about blacks?
A silly as the ban sounds, I fully support it. It's a retarded look and I'm sick of seeing young men walk around with their asses hanging out. And if it's aimed at black men, so what? It'll only serve to make black men not look like morons who can't afford a belt. Or worse, morons who can afford a belt but don't know how to properly use it.
It's effin ridiculous for the NAACP to get involved with this. Defending the right for black men to dress like that? Seriously? They need to learn how to pick their battles.
DROxINxTHExWIND:PeriRies: I really don't care what people wear on their own time, but when I see somebody defending wanting to wear their clubbing clothes to work, I know I'm dealing with someone destined to fight losing battles. And it's not about baggy pants, it's about this asinine notion that work is the place where you go to express yourself.
So if you don't know any better than to show up to a job interview with your undies sticking out the top of your pants, you don't really deserve a job.
/rant over //get off my lawn =====================================
Ok. Okaaaay! Fark! We all agree that there is a certain way that people should dress for a job interview. Now, STFU with this idiotic position. NOT ONE of you has ever gone to a job interview and seen a candidate dressed like a gangster. It's just something for you to say.
Idiotic position? You agree with me and then call my position idiotic? Forget your meds today or something? Calm down.
And fwiw, i've seen a girl sent home from work for wearing her clubbing clothes to work, and she argued with the people in HR. She was wearing a partially see-through camisole ffs. Not that I minded, but I understand why she got sent home.
DROxINxTHExWIND:NOT ONE of you has ever gone to a job interview and seen a candidate dressed like a gangster.
My mom - in- law works for Social Services as a job placement counsellor. She had to make up a diagram describing what not to wear to an interview and what to wear to an interview. This is because she would call the potential employers to ask why the people she had sent to them never got hired. Turns out most of them were going to the interview in, for lack of a better term, street clothes... which around here usually means a pair of tight fitting acid washed jeans with holes in them and either a beat up big johnson tee or a hooters wife beater. One should never give people to much credit.
So if I treat the people of one race differently than the people of another race, I am racist.
Unless you're closing a gap artificially placed between the races by past policies.
How would you feel if you were in a race and the leader cheated himself half-way round the track but, once discovered, he wasn't required to relinquish the lead?
How about adding "popped collars" to "baggy pants" in the list of things they need to ban in public schools?
Some people are taking this stuff way too personal. This isn't an "attack" on anyone. It's a counter-action to what the local school system deems "inappropriate". If they have to throw khakis and a polo in that conversation, then good for them.
I just think it's hilarious how one must automatically be "racist" because they think it's stupid for people to wear their damn pants around their knees. It's not me being racist - it's me saying you're stupid. My younger brother used to do the same thing because he thought it was cool. I reminded him that he just looked like a dumbass. Not because I'm racist - because he looked like an idiot. Trust me - there are just as many white people doing this.
Whoopty Rape Angel:Rev. WRight is no racist. In order to be a racist you have to be a member of the dominant racial group. It's about power.
This is just the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
The dictionary disagrees with you. Maybe you need a new word to define what you want to say.
What happens when three black guys get pissed at one white guy? Are the black guys racist then. The answer is maybe. It depends on why they are pissed.
Rev. WRight is no racist. In order to be a racist you have to be a member of the dominant racial group. It's about power.
According to the dictionary you're retarded.
Noun1.racist - a person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others
It's about superiority. No wonder you think all white people are racist. You don't know the definition of racist. You're just a crappy ripoff of the original Whoopty. If you believe that whites are the dominate or superior race then you are a racist.
I believe he's using the accepted definition of racism is sociology. In that in order to actually act on racist tendencies, one has to be the dominant race in a culture. Much like fireclown stated, the ability to be an effective racist.
All I have to say, is that the government should not be telling me or anyone else how to dress. At all period. Black, white, blue or whatever color they are. They have no say in what I should wear. Could you imagine (no because it would never happen) if it was ties? This should be an ACLU issue and not an NAACP issue.
spacechicken: Educate yourself. Not watching Oprah, I mean really get out in the middle of it and learn something besides rhetoric. Anyone can be a racists, and usually the ones crying the loudest and always blaming other people for their problems (and expecting compensation) are the biggest reacists.
Excuse me for now, I have to go get in line for my free check , butter and cheese. And listen to Jeremiah Wrong.
wilfridcyrus:My pants hang low. I'm smart and a good person. People tell me I'm white. This thread is more stupider than the NAACPs complaint. I don't know why i still come to fark.
I have doubts about the truthfulness of your statements. If you were smart, people wouldn't have to tell you that you are white. If you can point out the three grammatical errors in your post, I'll retract my (asinine) assertion.
Fact Man:AAH! I can't stand when people say any law is discriminatory when it covers everyone! There's a rule where I live at a mall that children under 16 can't be there after 5pm on weekends without a parent because of recent violence and shoplifting. Of course, "It's discriminating against blacks!" What? The law is children under 16, not black children under 16.
How can a law that protects equally be discriminatory? By the very definition of the word?
Well.. How are they supposed to get their low riders if they can shoplift them on the weekends>?
No, but there is almost always a tinge of bigotry behind sumptuary laws. The zoot suit ban, for instance, was directed at hispanics - the people who could often be found wearing them. Wrong: the Zoot Suit began as an African American trend that was later copped by Latinos. The look reflected a culture unfortunately linked to criminal activity, and conveniently (for law enforcement) consisting of 80% non-whites. The suits were regarded as excessive, using much more fabric than needed while everyone else was sacrificing for the war effort. "Low pants" laws are in themselves sumptuary laws. So the NAACP is correct, even if they do sound like whiners. Wrong: Again, "low pants" reflect a culture of thug lifestyle (the look is actually taken from prison life, indicating the "availability" of someone), affiliated with criminal activity, and consisting of an almost even number of members of different ethnicities.
Get your history straight and your paranoia in order.
Whoopty Rape Angel:yes it does. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise. Do you really think this would be an issue if it were a "white" thing? No, it would not.
/I can do this all day.
You said the law was signaling out black people. It isn't signling them out if whites are effected too, you are kidding yourself if you think this is a black only issue.
Whoopty Rape Angel:In order to be a racist you have to be a member of the dominant racial group. It's about power.
haha, ok
If a korean gas station owner will only let in one black person at a time is he racist?
If a mexican won't sit a black person at his restaurant because of the color of his skin is he racist?
What about if a black mechanic makes mexicans pay before working on his car?
Those are all the acts of a racist. If you treat people worse or have different standards for someone because of their race you are a racist.
Are you really trying to say that if someone worked in a fast food restaurant and spat in the drinks of everyone who wasn't their skin color that they are only racist if they are white? If you are really trying to make that argument you are a racist. You are judging people based on the color of their skin. You have a different standard depending on skin tone. I bet MLK would be proud of that reasoning.
Unless you're closing a gap artificially placed between the races by past policies.
No, that is still racism. Two people go for a job, white person is better qualified, black person gets it because of slavery 150 years ago, that is still blatant racism.
danlpoon:Baggie pants became "attributable" to blacks not from a fashion motivator but an economic one. Black parents would buy their children's clothes sized two or three years beyond their current need. So kids regularly had baggy clothes.
Eventually, over time, outsiders who witnessed this mistook it for a "statement" and as such took-off with it as a fashion meme. It wasn't until later that black fashion, FUBU, etc, would partially recapture the trend for themselves but by that time the traditionally white retailers like Gap and white textile conglomerates a la Levi's Jeans had already co-opted the look. ===================================
LOL. This mutherfarker just made this shiat up. Cite the source, please.
If you want to know why "baggy" pants became fashionable why not ask a black guy who came of age during the period instead of pulling shiat from your ass?
Answer: We like them.
Fashion is cyclical. If everyone is wearing their hair short, someone will wear their hair long, and people will follow. An example is the way cornrows and braids are slowly going the way of the dinosaur. I actually saw a kid with a high-top fade on ESPN last night.
Music videos had the most influence because they brought regional fashions to other places. Once the Hip-Hop community began to embrace a looser style of dress, people followed. The funny thing is that while they're passing this legislation, the kids are moving on to the next thing. The NEW trend is actually to wear fitting jeans ala Kanye West or the black dude from N.E.R.D. Because once everyone gets onto something it gets stale and people do the opposite. So, the answer to the question, "what do we do about these baggy pants" is - Shut the fark up and wait for the kids to change their minds.
I'm waiting for the new "anti-tight pants" legislation that will be coming in the Summer of '09
dagatekeeper:acechicken: Educate yourself. Not watching Oprah, I mean really get out in the middle of it and learn something besides rhetoric. Anyone can be a racists, and usually the ones crying the loudest and always blaming other people for their problems (and expecting compensation) are the biggest reacists.
Excuse me for now, I have to go g
What the hell are you talking about? This is exactly what I'm saying. I think you either quoted the wrong person or took some or my post out of context.
DROxINxTHExWIND:NOT ONE of you has ever gone to a job interview and seen a candidate dressed like a gangster. It's just something for you to say.
Actually I did, but in all fairness it was for a job working on oil rigs. The guy spoke better english than the mexican dressed up like a cowboy so he got the job.
Dancin_In_Anson:drunkennewfiemidget: I'm not sure if it's racism, but it's definitely retarded.
How so?
Because deciding on your safety based on the colour of skin of the person walking behind you is idiotic if there's no other indication as to their intentions.
DROxINxTHExWIND:If you want to know why "baggy" pants became fashionable why not ask a black guy who came of age during the period instead of pulling shiat from your ass?
Answer: We like them.
No, no, no...don't you realize everything in the black community must be somehow connected to poverty, jail or gang life? Get with the program!
I'm not sure how people even wear their pants like that.. I did it once at home as part of a joke (mostly to piss off my wife) and it actually hurt my hips to walk in a way that would keep them from falling to my ankles.
Not to chicken-and-egg this topic but you like them because your Mom bought them for you. This trend started in the Seventies while you were still playing with your EZ Bake Oven sans light bulb.
This:Nutsac_Jim: //thread needs more thongs coming out the top of shorts pics.
Daisy Dukes and minis that allow the thongs to be visible out the bottom are also acceptable.
The downside to that are all the chicks that most guys would say, "NO! AHHH! KILL IT WITH FIRE" to also follow that, and I've seen some things that all the mindbleach in the world can't undo.
drunkennewfiemidget:Because deciding on your safety based on the colour of skin of the person walking behind you is idiotic if there's no other indication as to their intentions.
So this would apply to anyone that makes that connection?
"Rev. WRight is no racist. In order to be a racist you have to be a member of the dominant racial group. It's about power."
You sad little person: From the American Heritage Dictionary... Rac-ism n. 1) The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. 2) Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
Note the lack of qualifiers about dominance and power. You know that racism is what humans of all colors have in common, right?
"Once the Hip-Hop community began to embrace a looser style of dress..."
I love this assertion that there's some sort of 'community', some sort of unity with the hip-hop crowd. The way they beat the shiat out of each other, that's nothing further from the truth.
Can you not understand why clubs are starting to have dress codes that exclude hip-hop / gang colors (or oversized teamwear) / wife beater style clothing? It's because 9 out of 10 times it's the black guy in 'low riders' or the white guy in a wife beater t-shirt that causes the trouble. The dress codes are there to make the place SAFER for the other patrons who just want to have a drink and a good time.
It's not about race, it's about class. So pull up your farking pants and get some!
FormlessOne:I do believe that the NAACP is confusing racial with cultural discrimination
A lot of people confuse criticism of culture with racism. If I say black people tend to yell at the screen at the movies, I'm not saying that blacks are genetically predisposed to yelling in a movie theater. I'm observing that a certain segment of black culture condones it. Same with the pants thing.
Dancin_In_Anson:drunkennewfiemidget: Because deciding on your safety based on the colour of skin of the person walking behind you is idiotic if there's no other indication as to their intentions.
So this would apply to anyone that makes that connection?
drunkennewfiemidget:FZ6: How about adding "popped collars" to "baggy pants" in the list of things they need to ban in public schools?
A-farkin-men.
Sweet - glad to see I'm not the only one. ;)
Unhip1:GWShenlong05
No, but there is almost always a tinge of bigotry behind sumptuary laws. The zoot suit ban, for instance, was directed at hispanics - the people who could often be found wearing them. Wrong: the Zoot Suit began as an African American trend that was later copped by Latinos. The look reflected a culture unfortunately linked to criminal activity, and conveniently (for law enforcement) consisting of 80% non-whites. The suits were regarded as excessive, using much more fabric than needed while everyone else was sacrificing for the war effort.
"Low pants" laws are in themselves sumptuary laws. So the NAACP is correct, even if they do sound like whiners. Wrong: Again, "low pants" reflect a culture of thug lifestyle (the look is actually taken from prison life, indicating the "availability" of someone), affiliated with criminal activity, and consisting of an almost even number of members of different ethnicities.
Get your history straight and your paranoia in order.
But it's so much easier to just yell "Racism!". :)
DROxINxTHExWIND:danlpoon: Baggie pants became "attributable" to blacks not from a fashion motivator but an economic one. Black parents would buy their children's clothes sized two or three years beyond their current need. So kids regularly had baggy clothes.
Eventually, over time, outsiders who witnessed this mistook it for a "statement" and as such took-off with it as a fashion meme. It wasn't until later that black fashion, FUBU, etc, would partially recapture the trend for themselves but by that time the traditionally white retailers like Gap and white textile conglomerates a la Levi's Jeans had already co-opted the look. ===================================
LOL. This mutherfarker just made this shiat up. Cite the source, please.
If you want to know why "baggy" pants became fashionable why not ask a black guy who came of age during the period instead of pulling shiat from your ass?
Answer: We like them.
Fashion is cyclical. If everyone is wearing their hair short, someone will wear their hair long, and people will follow. An example is the way cornrows and braids are slowly going the way of the dinosaur. I actually saw a kid with a high-top fade on ESPN last night.
Music videos had the most influence because they brought regional fashions to other places. Once the Hip-Hop community began to embrace a looser style of dress, people followed. The funny thing is that while they're passing this legislation, the kids are moving on to the next thing. The NEW trend is actually to wear fitting jeans ala Kanye West or the black dude from N.E.R.D. Because once everyone gets onto something it gets stale and people do the opposite. So, the answer to the question, "what do we do about these baggy pants" is - Shut the fark up and wait for the kids to change their minds.
I'm waiting for the new "anti-tight pants" legislation that will be coming in the Summer of '09
No worries Dro you know we wanna see you in those tight pants.
Really, I can't believe either side has gotten this up in arms over this issue. For jeepers sake.
drunkennewfiemidget:Dancin_In_Anson: drunkennewfiemidget: Because deciding on your safety based on the colour of skin of the person walking behind you is idiotic if there's no other indication as to their intentions.
So this would apply to anyone that makes that connection?
Yes.
And what if crime statistics clearly show you are more in danger of a black guy with pants around his knees, than of a white guy in a suit and tie? It is not racism to use common sense.
danlpoon:How would you feel if you were in a race and the leader cheated himself half-way round the track but, once discovered, he wasn't required to relinquish the lead?
Would that be fair?
That would make sense if all white people were on group that shared everything equally, but that isn't the case.
Giving blanket advantages to black people doesn't help anything.
Affirmative action doesn't do shiat for some kid in the ghetto, and the middle class black kid who works hard to get into college, a job etc will always have the taint of not really earning it.
I have a lot of sympathy for people who grow up in shiatty neighborhoods with single parents surrounded by crime in schools with old books. But I don't have more sympathy for if their grand parents couldn't vote.
"And what if crime statistics clearly show you are more in danger of a black guy with pants around his knees, than of a white guy in a suit and tie? It is not racism to use common sense."
Marla Singer's Laundry:GlassHouses: I'd be psyched to see a low-pants bill in my office so I don't have to keep looking at the thongs of the junior staff.
//My lawn. Off. Now!
More like, "I'm having hot flashes! Cover up, you little harlot!"
Nah, I just don't like looking at their underwear...Call me crazy, but I think showing your underwear (for either gender) should not be an "office" thing. :) No droopy pants on the guys, no thongs showing on the girls.
Raikus:You can all thank the original African American who started this craze.
Your statement is not as ridiculous as some may think. Of course, there were other reasons (hand-me-downs, etc.) why people wore their pants sagging but a lot of this coordinated around showing off the boxers, too. And Marky Mark was one of the folks who started got recognition for that.
Surool:"Rev. WRight is no racist. In order to be a racist you have to be a member of the dominant racial group. It's about power."
You sad little person: From the American Heritage Dictionary... Rac-ism n. 1) The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. 2) Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
Note the lack of qualifiers about dominance and power. You know that racism is what humans of all colors have in common, right?
my PhD in Sociology says otherwise. If all you have to refute my position is the dictionary then I guess we're done here.
UnkleKrakker:DROxINxTHExWIND: If you want to know why "baggy" pants became fashionable why not ask a black guy who came of age during the period instead of pulling shiat from your ass?
Answer: We like them.
DROxINxTHExWIND:Because all of the people on the "Compton street corner" think alike. Just like all of the people in YOUR neighborhood, right?
UnkleKrakker:In that in order to actually act on racist tendencies, one has to be the dominant race in a culture.
That is simply false. How about when a big black guy decides to push around a small white guy, just because he is white. That would be effective wouldn't it? How does culture mater?
There is no such thing as a sociologically accepted definition of racism that is different than the one in the dictionary.
Thunderpipes:drunkennewfiemidget: Dancin_In_Anson: drunkennewfiemidget: Because deciding on your safety based on the colour of skin of the person walking behind you is idiotic if there's no other indication as to their intentions.
So this would apply to anyone that makes that connection?
Yes.
And what if crime statistics clearly show you are more in danger of a black guy with pants around his knees, than of a white guy in a suit and tie? It is not racism to use common sense.
common sense should tell you that if you judge people simply by the color of their skin, you're wrong. Serial killer tend to be white males, and Dahmer was a snappy dresser.
Burn98:UnkleKrakker: In that in order to actually act on racist tendencies, one has to be the dominant race in a culture.
That is simply false. How about when a big black guy decides to push around a small white guy, just because he is white. That would be effective wouldn't it? How does culture mater?
There is no such thing as a sociologically accepted definition of racism that is different than the one in the dictionary.
you are confusing discrimination based on race with racism... I could suggest some books if you are truly interested.
The "Low pants in Prison means you want Deeck" story is a myth. A myth created by a white guy to humiliate blacks. Nice. Low pants are just convenience cum habit cum fashion.
One thing I would like to understand. How can black dudes wear full-on winter coats in the dead of summer? And how come I see so many black people wearing these really colorful NASCAR jackets? That seems...surreal.
Maechyll:UnkleKrakker: DROxINxTHExWIND: If you want to know why "baggy" pants became fashionable why not ask a black guy who came of age during the period instead of pulling shiat from your ass?
Answer: We like them.
DROxINxTHExWIND: Because all of the people on the "Compton street corner" think alike. Just like all of the people in YOUR neighborhood, right?
xenocide:Christ, the ignorance in this thread is staggering... I had very baggy pants growing up. Want to know why? I was poor and would wear hand-me-downs, just like a lot of my other black friends. I have no idea where this whole theory of imitating "prison culture" came from, but it makes the people who push it look shockingly out of touch.
So, in either case, why is this something the kids want to emulate?
I mean, it's your right to look silly and all, but I'm just curious as to why that look got popularized in the media.
Affirmative action doesn't do shiat for some kid in the ghetto, and the middle class black kid who works hard to get into college, a job etc will always have the taint of not really earning it.
Burn98:UnkleKrakker: In that in order to actually act on racist tendencies, one has to be the dominant race in a culture.
That is simply false. How about when a big black guy decides to push around a small white guy, just because he is white. That would be effective wouldn't it? How does culture mater?
There is no such thing as a sociologically accepted definition of racism that is different than the one in the dictionary.
Perhaps you should pick up a book occasionally. There is a very strong definition in Sociology that racism is only able to be carried out by the dominant group. This would be called 'the big picture', so racism really can only be praticed by those in power. I didn't say the dictionary definition was wrong, I simply said there was another, accepted definition. That happens in the world outside sometimes, people redefine things and don't get everyone's permission.
fireclown UnkleKrakker: Rev. WRight is no racist. In order to be a racist you have to be a member of the dominant racial group. It's about power.
No. That is the requirement to be an EFFECTIVE racist.
Glad to clear that up for ya.
Okay... then if Rev Wright is as "ineffective" as you say he is, then why do those like you even pay attention? What difference does he make to you?
I mean, if someone just stands around and talks a bunch of shiat, so what? If that same person prevents me from getting a job, an apartment, a loan... then that person needs to be dealt with.
Thunderpipes:Unless you're closing a gap artificially placed between the races by past policies.
No, that is still racism. Two people go for a job, white person is better qualified, black person gets it because of slavery 150 years ago, that is still blatant racism.
I disagree. The playing field is slanted. You just can not leave that fact out of your analysis.
One team gets to advance the ball downhill while the other team has to advance the ball uphill. The uphill team deserves some kind of break to make up for the slant
So we give them an extra down that they can use but the other team cannot.
Now the downhill team screams that the uphill team has an unfair advantage, ignoring the advantage they have had all along.
You can argue that it is a stupid way to try to even things out and I would agree with you. But it is an attempt to make things more fair.
Giving blanket advantages to black people doesn't help anything.
It was a blanket disadvantage that Jim Crow put on blacks. Near enough, anyway. Affirmative Action isn't a blanket advantage. As you mentioned it comes at a price and isn't available to many blacks. So in that sense Affirmative Action doesn't go far enough.
Maechyll:UnkleKrakker: DROxINxTHExWIND: If you want to know why "baggy" pants became fashionable why not ask a black guy who came of age during the period instead of pulling shiat from your ass?
Answer: We like them.
DROxINxTHExWIND: Because all of the people on the "Compton street corner" think alike. Just like all of the people in YOUR neighborhood, right?
As a self-admitted old fart (over 40 at least) I guess I can kinda see the attraction of showing underwear. There's at least a tie-in their to something sexual.
But the low-riders that are cut to join the pant-legs a foot below the crotch - that has GOT to be the dumbest looking fashion trend in history - including bell bottoms and zoot suits.
It pretty much announces to the world that the wearer is an absolutely unredeemable moron. Add a few piercings and you're basically looking at a lobotomized gibbon walking around (regardless of race - I ain't going there).
GWShenlong05:twobux: How? Did MLK Jr. give the "I have a dream" speech with the top 2 inches of his boxers showing?
No, but there is almost always a tinge of bigotry behind sumptuary laws. The zoot suit ban, for instance, was directed at hispanics - the people who could often be found wearing them.
"Low pants" laws are in themselves sumptuary laws. So the NAACP is correct, even if they do sound like whiners.
So they are trying to discrimainate against souther white trash? I see more 19yr old, wife beater wearing, pant sagging rednecks running around than black youth.
UnkleKrakker:Burn98: UnkleKrakker: In that in order to actually act on racist tendencies, one has to be the dominant race in a culture.
That is simply false. How about when a big black guy decides to push around a small white guy, just because he is white. That would be effective wouldn't it? How does culture mater?
There is no such thing as a sociologically accepted definition of racism that is different than the one in the dictionary.
Perhaps you should pick up a book occasionally. There is a very strong definition in Sociology that racism is only able to be carried out by the dominant group. This would be called 'the big picture', so racism really can only be praticed by those in power. I didn't say the dictionary definition was wrong, I simply said there was another, accepted definition. That happens in the world outside sometimes, people redefine things and don't get everyone's permission.
look into the works Joe Feagin or Claude Levi-Strauss on the topic.
Burn98:One team gets to advance the ball downhill while the other team has to advance the ball uphill. The uphill team deserves some kind of break to make up for the slant
It is racist to see us as "teams" instead of individuals who happen to have traits in common.
rewind2846:Okay... then if Rev Wright is as "ineffective" as you say he is, then why do those like you even pay attention? What difference does he make to you?
I mean, if someone just stands around and talks a bunch of shiat, so what? If that same person prevents me from getting a job, an apartment, a loan... then that person needs to be dealt with. In all fairness, he doesn't really keep me awake at night as I claw at my eyes crying to the heavens "OH WHY DOES REVREND WRIGHT TORMENT ME THUS!?!?!?!"
/That's certainly going to help advancement; and by the way...NAACP Wiki (new window) Maybe time for a name change? //The NAACP will never be satisfied because if "colored" people have advanced beyond advocacy, their organization ceases to be relevant.
OOOO you're so smart. you know what NAACP stands for.
The word colored is used because it is an organization for ALL people of color.
/America Ferrera (Ugly Betty) just won a NAACP image award //As well as Jimmy Smits
Burn98:I disagree. The playing field is slanted. You just can not leave that fact out of your analysis.
One team gets to advance the ball downhill while the other team has to advance the ball uphill. The uphill team deserves some kind of break to make up for the slant
So we give them an extra down that they can use but the other team cannot.
Now the downhill team screams that the uphill team has an unfair advantage, ignoring the advantage they have had all along.
You can argue that it is a stupid way to try to even things out and I would agree with you. But it is an attempt to make things more fair.
Therefore it is not racist.
Sorry but we aren;t teams.
If whitey incfome goes up 20% it doesn't mean I make more money.
I am all about helping economically depressed areas, the fed spending more money on failing inner city schools, fixing bad neighborhoods etc, but the standard for which schools or people to help shoulcn;t be based on skin color.
Whoopty Rape Angel:Surool: "Rev. WRight is no racist. In order to be a racist you have to be a member of the dominant racial group. It's about power."
You sad little person: From the American Heritage Dictionary... Rac-ism n. 1) The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. 2) Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
Note the lack of qualifiers about dominance and power. You know that racism is what humans of all colors have in common, right?
my PhD in Sociology says otherwise. If all you have to refute my position is the dictionary then I guess we're done here.
Ooooo a PHD in Sociology! That and a dollar will buy you a cup of coffee. Seriously though, does your sociological definition take into account the protected classes? Right now African Americans are considered a protected class and will dominate any discussion involving race. They are free to call whites crackers, honkeys, and anything else and resort to physical violence when called names. Wouldn't this put them as the dominant race in this case? How exactly do you define the dominant race? Do you just mean economically dominant? Do you mean population percentage dominant? Or do you mean ability to act on racial tendency dominant?
UnkleKrakker:Thunderpipes: drunkennewfiemidget: Dancin_In_Anson: drunkennewfiemidget: Because deciding on your safety based on the colour of skin of the person walking behind you is idiotic if there's no other indication as to their intentions.
So this would apply to anyone that makes that connection?
Yes.
And what if crime statistics clearly show you are more in danger of a black guy with pants around his knees, than of a white guy in a suit and tie? It is not racism to use common sense.
common sense should tell you that if you judge people simply by the color of their skin, you're wrong. Serial killer tend to be white males, and Dahmer was a snappy dresser.
Serial killers also tend not to just randomly do violence in public. Black thugs have no problem busting a cap in somone because they want too.
I wish there was just one time when I've spoken to a non-idiot wearing sagging pants. I really do, but they're all suffering from what must be (at best) minor brain damage. I try to have sympathy for them, but they just act like morons all the time. *sigh*
Just yesterday a neighbor was out trying out his bicycle in the parking lot and his pants kept getting caught on the FRONT of his seat, pulling them down so he was riding with his farking tighty-whity ass sticking out behind him. None of us wanted to see that.
Perhaps you should pick up a book occasionally. There is a very strong definition in Sociology that racism is only able to be carried out by the dominant group
This is the lame excuse and semantics that black people play to justify their own BIGOTRY.
bigotry and racism are not different. It's all about intolerance and stereotyping people who don't look like you, or sound like you or maybe of a different gender or sexual orientation.
All of that considered. Blacks are among the most bigoted race of people on this planet.
So they are trying to discrimainate against souther white trash? I see more 19yr old, wife beater wearing, pant sagging rednecks running around than black youth.
Around here, we have a name for the people you describe: tapeworms. Skinny little rednecks with pot bellies, a wife beater Nascar shirt, and a perpetual dip in mouth. You can find them in droves at Wal-Mart, Check-Into-Cash, or TitleMax.
spacechicken170am:Whoopty Rape Angel: Surool: "Rev. WRight is no racist. In order to be a racist you have to be a member of the dominant racial group. It's about power."
You sad little person: From the American Heritage Dictionary... Rac-ism n. 1) The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. 2) Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
Note the lack of qualifiers about dominance and power. You know that racism is what humans of all colors have in common, right?
my PhD in Sociology says otherwise. If all you have to refute my position is the dictionary then I guess we're done here.
Ooooo a PHD in Sociology! That and a dollar will buy you a cup of coffee. Seriously though, does your sociological definition take into account the protected classes? Right now African Americans are considered a protected class and will dominate any discussion involving race. They are free to call whites crackers, honkeys, and anything else and resort to physical violence when called names. Wouldn't this put them as the dominant race in this case? How exactly do you define the dominant race? Do you just mean economically dominant? Do you mean population percentage dominant? Or do you mean ability to act on racial tendency dominant?
Hey I worked hard for my doctorate and have a nice job as a result, don't give me that bullshiat you anti-intellectual goon.
1) physical violence is always illegal, you're creating a red herring 2) I mean economically and politically dominant (you know, "power") 3) equating honkey with racial slurs aimed at black people ignores U.S. history in its entirety.
Read a book.
I have no idea what you mean by "act on racial tendency" Who's making up words now?
BlippityBleep:I wish there was just one time when I've spoken to a non-idiot wearing sagging pants. I really do, but they're all suffering from what must be (at best) minor brain damage. I try to have sympathy for them, but they just act like morons all the time. *sigh*
In my undergrad I knew some Engineering students who dressed like that. On the one hand, they were still goof-offs.... but who wasn't? And besides, they graduated, so they couldn't have been that dense.
Dancin_In_Anson:Whoopty Rape Angel: some people go further in their educations than simply picking up a dictionary. see my previous post for some authors to look into.
Just depends on what the definition of "is" is, eh?
Pxtl:BlippityBleep: I wish there was just one time when I've spoken to a non-idiot wearing sagging pants. I really do, but they're all suffering from what must be (at best) minor brain damage. I try to have sympathy for them, but they just act like morons all the time. *sigh*
In my undergrad I knew some Engineering students who dressed like that. On the one hand, they were still goof-offs.... but who wasn't? And besides, they graduated, so they couldn't have been that dense.
Well, they've obviously done a heckuva job designing bridges as we've seen recently.
Not to chicken-and-egg this topic but you like them because your Mom bought them for you. This trend started in the Seventies while you were still playing with your EZ Bake Oven sans light bulb.
I was there, Bucko. =================================
No, actually in the 70s when I was playing with my Lite-Brite my father was wearing his ball-hugging bell bottoms. But, I'm sure you know what black people were doing, better than I.
Whoopty Rape Angel:some people go further in their educations than simply picking up a dictionary. see my previous post for some authors to look into.
You never responed to my earlier questions.
What would you call a mexican who wouldn't serve black people in his restaurant? He is acting on racist tendencies, how is he not a racist? What is the point of changing the meaning of the word from its older more widely accepted meaning?
What word would you use to describe a mexican ideology that encouraged treating blacks as inferior? I can't think of a better word than racist, but since that goes against the accepted meaning in the sociology world, why don't you provide me with the correct verbage.
/i have trouble accepting that the definition you present is the only one used by people who study sociology, but i will take it in this conversation as it isn;t my are of study.
No, actually in the 70s when I was playing with my Lite-Brite my father was wearing his ball-hugging bell bottoms. But, I'm sure you know what black people were doing, better than I.
Oh. Your black? I didn't pick up on that after the ten trillion times you said it. Sorry.
Plus if you want people to believe your black don't post memories of your father.
Everybody's prejudiced to an extent. The only question is how big is that extent and how honest you are about it.
I used to be so anti-racist and anti-prejudice when i was in high school in a small town (with no black people).
Then I moved to the city and embraced my prejudices. Though I wouldn't call myself a racist my any means but I do have prejudices, mostly those that have been backed up by personal experiences.
As far as this ban goes, if you want to dress like a douche, you're more than welcome to. It's not going to keep anyone from being in a gang or anything. If anything it makes the gang members more visible. I kinda like it that way.
All of that considered. Blacks are among the most bigoted race of people on this planet.
They had top-notch training.
That's right. Their own reatives and neighbors helped capture them and turned them over for trinkets. Sounds like a good old-fashioned turf-war training program to me.
Whoopty Rape Angel:Surool: "Rev. WRight is no racist. In order to be a racist you have to be a member of the dominant racial group. It's about power."
You sad little person: From the American Heritage Dictionary... Rac-ism n. 1) The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. 2) Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
Note the lack of qualifiers about dominance and power. You know that racism is what humans of all colors have in common, right?
my PhD in Sociology says otherwise. If all you have to refute my position is the dictionary then I guess we're done here.
I'm sure your PHD gifted you with the knowledge that when there is dominance and power by an ethnic group, the effect of racism os oppression. Sure the dominant group oppress the other groups, but that doesn't mean the other groups aren't racist as well.
You might want to get a partial refund on that degree. Linguistic definitions are put together over centuries of time by countless scholars.
Burn98: There is no such thing as a sociologically accepted definition of racism that is different than the one in the dictionary.
Perhaps you should pick up a book occasionally.
You accuse me of ignorance even while you display your own.
There is a very strong definition in Sociology that racism is only able to be carried out by the dominant group.
There has been a few articles and books written that advocate this point view. They have been rejected by the majority of sociologists. Some have made some valid points about what factors are necessary to be successful as a racist. But there is simply no strong belief that minorities cannot be racist. This argument is generally used to excuse bad behavior by minorities.
This would be called 'the big picture', so racism really can only be praticed by those in power.
So what happens when a bigger black man beats up a smaller white? The black man has the power then does he not? I agree that in the "Big Picture" minorities suffer more. But there is nothing that prevent minorities from practicing racism. Everyone has some power. All blacks need to do is spit in the white man's food, and they are racist.
Also you can be racist without practicing racism. You can hate on the basis of race even if you do nothing about it.
I didn't say the dictionary definition was wrong, I simply said there was another, accepted definition. That happens in the world outside sometimes, people redefine things and don't get everyone's permission.
You would have a point if your definition really was accepted. I just is not. And you can use an "special" definition you want.
I can redefine the word "crime" so that nothing I do is ever criminal. But I doubt I could convince the police not to arrest me.
coordman:I'm confused. In order for the bill to be discriminatory, doesn't it have to single out a group? This bill says no low pants for anyone.
/Not yours. //Don't want to see your nasty ass hanging out anyway
Well, technically a law can be discriminatory in its application, even if its wording is race neutral. For instance, all the laws which require a test to vote...at the time, the recently freed black community was significantly less likely to be able to pass a test to vote than the average white person. The result was that, in effect, the laws hurt blacks significantly more in their effect...even though the law mentioned race no where.
Don't really buy it here, but one could make the argument.
FarkleMatter Can they outlaw fanny packs next? FZ6: How about adding "popped collars" 90supraT I don't like ties therefor ties = banned
I'll add a couple points and then clear the way for everyone to call me a racist...
1. If they tried to enact laws against fashion statements made by the dregs of the white community, the white community would probably support them. The white community doesn't like fashion statements made by a small subculture that makes everyone else look stupid (that includes mullets, acid wash jeans with holes in the knees, tank tops, and anything that says "lumberjack" if you're not holding an axe).
2. As this is a state assembly issue (in the article) and not a specific school issue, this would impact the whole state. If they were to enact a statewide dress code / uniform for schools, you'd raise the ire of the impoverished as it's hard enough to afford baggy pants, let alone clean uniforms. Uniforms would likely overrule hand-me-downs.
If that wasn't abrasive, how about this...
3. Shortly after the episode with Bernhard Goetz, NYC saw a pretty significant decline in violent crimes. Many attributed it to his vigilante-ism, but that's not the case. They'd recently installed a new police chief who had some unorthodox methods. He stepped up enforcement of minor crimes in order to create a culture that would discourage violent crimes. NYPD completely cracked down on three seemingly insignificant areas...subway toll jumpers, graffiti and squeegies at red lights.
To simplify, potential criminals saw that the police weren't playing games and weren't going to let anyone get away with anything (even the insignificant stuff) so they thought twice about doing the major stuff. Believe it or not (I'm expecting not), but it did have a profound effect on violent crime in NYC.
Now, I doubt the Florida state legislature has this kind of forethought...I mean, they are elected officials from Florida FFS...but supporting such a sumptuary law (esp one with no criminal consequences) might not be such a bad idea.
Some fun reading on the subject: Link (new window)
UnkleKrakker:liam76: Whoopty Rape Angel: you are confusing discrimination based on race with racism... I could suggest some books if you are truly interested.
I guess the dictionary is confused by that as well.
Well, to help you undertand let's take "Liam"
Origin: Germanic Meaning: Will, desire and helmet, protection
Origin: Hebrew Meaning: My people
One name, two meanings (at least)
Fine a word can have two meanings. In the more common and popular meaning of racist judging people on their race is racist. Adhering to an ideology that says you must swear alliegance to a leader of a particular color is racist.
That's right. Their own relatives and neighbors helped capture them and turned them over for trinkets. Sounds like a good old-fashioned turf-war training program to me.
xenocide Christ, the ignorance in this thread is staggering... I had very baggy pants growing up. Want to know why? I was poor and would wear hand-me-downs, just like a lot of my other black friends. I have no idea where this whole theory of imitating "prison culture" came from, but it makes the people who push it look shockingly out of touch.
Yeah the ignorance of this thread is staggering...and you are helping it. The baggy pants, that is one thing but that is not what these guys are wearing, they are wearing normal (and baggy) pants and they are just loose in the waits and they hang lower on the waist.
danlpoon:No, actually in the 70s when I was playing with my Lite-Brite my father was wearing his ball-hugging bell bottoms. But, I'm sure you know what black people were doing, better than I.
Oh. Your black? I didn't pick up on that after the ten trillion times you said it. Sorry.
Plus if you want people to believe your black don't post memories of your father. =====================================
Translation: I'm wrong and I gots nothing.
/still waiting for your source on the origin of baggy pants. //what's the bibliography number for the crack of your ass?
UnkleKrakker:Perhaps you should pick up a book occasionally. There is a very strong definition in Sociology that OPPRESSION BASED ON racism is only able to be carried out by the dominant group. This would be called 'the big picture', so racism really can only be praticed by those in power.
atate_esq:Well, technically a law can be discriminatory in its application, even if its wording is race neutral. For instance, all the laws which require a test to vote...at the time, the recently freed black community was significantly less likely to be able to pass a test to vote than the average white person. The result was that, in effect, the laws hurt blacks significantly more in their effect...even though the law mentioned race no where.
Don't really buy it here, but one could make the argument.
Ok, I guess what I meant was 'I don't understand how it's racially discriminitory'.
If it discriminates against anyone, it's people with poor fashion sense, plumbers, and John Goodman.
PsyLord:coordman: I'm confused. In order for the bill to be discriminatory, doesn't it have to single out a group? This bill says no low pants for anyone.
/Not yours. //Don't want to see your nasty ass hanging out anyway.
It discriminates against people with no waists.
...in addition to appliance repairmen and plumbers.
Uh, isn't the article about being at school, where they can say no hats, no eating, no swearing, etc. They certainly wouldn't let you walk around in just your underwear or a bra, so why is a different form of regulated dress such a bad thing? They ban t-shirts with naughty stuff on them, does that mean they are racist against douchey white guys? I think a few more rules at school could be a good thing. And whoever made that argument at the top that this would make blacks drop out at a faster rate, your retarded.
Surool:Whoopty Rape Angel: Surool: "Rev. WRight is no racist. In order to be a racist you have to be a member of the dominant racial group. It's about power."
You sad little person: From the American Heritage Dictionary... Rac-ism n. 1) The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. 2) Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
Note the lack of qualifiers about dominance and power. You know that racism is what humans of all colors have in common, right?
my PhD in Sociology says otherwise. If all you have to refute my position is the dictionary then I guess we're done here.
I'm sure your PHD gifted you with the knowledge that when there is dominance and power by an ethnic group, the effect of racism os oppression. Sure the dominant group oppress the other groups, but that doesn't mean the other groups aren't racist as well.
You might want to get a partial refund on that degree. Linguistic definitions are put together over centuries of time by countless scholars.
What you fail to grasp is that one needs power in order to affect their racist agendas. You cannot honestly compare Korean shop owners' behavior and the history of U.S. racial oppression.
You are confused. Come to my class, I'll set you straight.
Sorry but no matter how much you want to be just you and nothing else, people will still notice that you have a race, as gender, a language, and a few other things.
You are going to be treated as a member of a group whether you want be be or not. Other people have the same problem.
GWShenlong05:twobux: How? Did MLK Jr. give the "I have a dream" speech with the top 2 inches of his boxers showing?
No, but there is almost always a tinge of bigotry behind sumptuary laws. The zoot suit ban, for instance, was directed at hispanics - the people who could often be found wearing them.
"Low pants" laws are in themselves sumptuary laws. So the NAACP is correct, even if they do sound like whiners.
Excuse me while I clean off all the bull-shiat that i just waded through to read your post.
I do like your dotted lines, though. If you ever disappear I may steal that look. Hey- Don't forget I'm on your side against all these racist MF'ers. Me and you. Like DuBois and Booker T. Like Tyson and Givens.
Thunderpipes:UnkleKrakker: Thunderpipes: drunkennewfiemidget: Dancin_In_Anson: drunkennewfiemidget: Because deciding on your safety based on the colour of skin of the person walking behind you is idiotic if there's no other indication as to their intentions.
So this would apply to anyone that makes that connection?
Yes.
And what if crime statistics clearly show you are more in danger of a black guy with pants around his knees, than of a white guy in a suit and tie? It is not racism to use common sense.
common sense should tell you that if you judge people simply by the color of their skin, you're wrong. Serial killer tend to be white males, and Dahmer was a snappy dresser.
Serial killers also tend not to just randomly do violence in public. Black thugs have no problem busting a cap in somone because they want too.
Really, and you've witnessed this "cap in someone' personally?
UnkleKrakker: Perhaps you should pick up a book occasionally. There is a very strong definition in Sociology that OPPRESSION BASED ON racism is only able to be carried out by the dominant group. This would be called 'the big picture', so racism really can only be praticed by those in power.
Blacks own businesses that hire white people. Blacks are elected officials who have white servants on their staffs. Rich blacks 9 of which there are many ) have maids, butlers and yard keepers who are likely NOT black.
THEREFORE, blacks are in positions of power and ( by your wack standard ) can be as racist as anyone else.
I loved this case, so classic. Black person assaults white woman, white husband screams the "N" word, is charged with a felony hate crime for his words.
coordman:Ok, I guess what I meant was 'I don't understand how it's racially discriminitory'.
If it discriminates against anyone, it's people with poor fashion sense, plumbers, and John Goodman.
If the law is used to disproportionately weed out young black men from the job pool or to unduely harrass young black me, then the statute (not as written, but as applied) could be considered discriminatory in application.
Of course, there would have to be proof that young black men would suffer disproportionately to young white men...it's all very complicated. Can it be done? Sure, but I'm not confident it would be a successful challenge.
I think the real issue here is that this is just a stupid thing to outlaw. It's just kinda dumb.
Whoopty Rape Angel: Hey I worked hard for my doctorate and have a nice job as a result, don't give me that bullshiat you anti-intellectual goon.
1) physical violence is always illegal, you're creating a red herring 2) I mean economically and politically dominant (you know, "power") 3) equating honkey with racial slurs aimed at black people ignores U.S. history in its entirety.
Read a book.
I have no idea what you mean by "act on racial tendency" Who's making up words now?
This is an internet news blog most of the people on here have degrees. I have a degree in software engineering but I don't use it to try to qualify my arguments. You are simply trying to imply that you are smarter than the people you're arguing with instead of attacking their points. You imply that African Americans are not racists because they are not part of the dominant race. You imply that they lack the power to be racists. I'm saying that they do have the power to be racists since they are a protected class. Now argue my point instead of my useless knowledge of a stupid messed up language that nobody really cares about.
1) Motive is always taken into account when punishments are dealt out, therefore my point is valid. I'm implying that they will receive less punishment for punching a white person who used a racial slur towards them than a white man would receive in a similar situation.
2) Power comes in many forms and since we're discussing racism I thought that maybe power could mean the ability to exhibit racial behaviors.
3) Calling me a cracker also ignores history as well. The word implies that my ancestors were whipcrackers (former slave owners hired whipcrackers or overseers to keep the slaves in line). My ancestors came over right before the civil war and fought for the North. They were never slave owners.
Finally, if you really want to argue over stupid crap then which word did I make up?
"act on racial tendency" All of those words are valid words. If you said I made up the phrase then yes you would be correct.
and yeah very much so the roots are prison chic. No belt=pants hang off your ass. EOS. Been around this way forever. Men used to be ashamed or have pride or whatever.
Thunderpipes And what if crime statistics clearly show you are more in danger of a black guy with pants around his knees, than of a white guy in a suit and tie? It is not racism to use common sense. Michael Coley Original Charge: Criminal Possession Of A Controlled Substance, 5th and Resisting Arrest Wanted For: Violation of Probation Jeffrey McMahon, Raymond M. Bowen Jr., Ben Glisan Jr., and Greg Whalley, Robbed thousands. Stole Millions.
/which of these people has caused more real harm to society?
1) Motive is always taken into account when punishments are dealt out, therefore my point is valid. I'm implying that they will receive less punishment for punching a white person who used a racial slur towards them than a white man would receive in a similar situation.
read my above post and link, simply calling a black person a name can get a white guy charged with a felony, while a black man can assault and injure a white guy's wife and recieve nothing.
Link again
http://www.vdare.com/fulford/rae.htm
scary how anti-white the establishment is, sucks to be a white guy in a black man's world.
/which of these people has caused more real harm to society?
I'm not arguing that white people don't do really bad things, but you can't compare a black man who violated his probation to some white guys that stole millions.
I would like to thank Fark.com. See, I used to think racism was a problem of the past,and people who spoke of it as a contemporary problem were just making shiat up.
liam76:UnkleKrakker: liam76: Whoopty Rape Angel: you are confusing discrimination based on race with racism... I could suggest some books if you are truly interested.
I guess the dictionary is confused by that as well.
Well, to help you undertand let's take "Liam"
Origin: Germanic Meaning: Will, desire and helmet, protection
Origin: Hebrew Meaning: My people
One name, two meanings (at least)
Fine a word can have two meanings. In the more common and popular meaning of racist judging people on their race is racist. Adhering to an ideology that says you must swear alliegance to a leader of a particular color is racist.
You're STILL whining about a different thread? You really are a sad, one truck pony. Sorry for encouraging you to post.
In May 2004 in Louisiana, state legislator Derrick Shepherd proposed a bill that would make it a crime to appear in public wearing trousers below the waist and thereby exposing one's skin or "intimate clothing".[3] The Louisiana bill was retracted after negative public reaction.
In February 2005, Virginia legislators tried to pass a similar law that would have made punishable by a $50 fine: "any person who, while in a public place, intentionally wears and displays his below-waist undergarments, intended to cover a person's intimate parts, in a lewd or indecent manner".
It is not clear whether, with the same coverage by the trousers, exposing underwear was considered worse than exposing bare skin, or that the latter was already covered by another law.
It passed in the Virginia House of Delegates. However, various criticisms to it arose. For example, newspaper columnists and radio talk show hosts consistently said that since most people that would be penalized under the law would be young African-American men, the law would thus be a form of discrimination against them. Virginia's state senators voted against passing the law.[4][5]
A US mayor plans to pass a law banning the wearing of saggy trousers in his Louisiana town. Carol Broussard, mayor of Delcambre, said that he will sign the proposal unanimously passed by town councillors. Wearing trousers that reveal your underwear will lead to a $500 penalty and the risk of six months in jail. "If you expose your private parts, you'll get a fine," said Mr Broussard. He told the Associated Press that people wearing low-slung trousers are "better off taking the pants off and wearing a dress." Ted Ayo, town attorney, said that the new legislation would expand on existing indecent exposure laws in Louisiana: "This is a new ordinance that deals specifically with sagging pants. It's about showing off your underwear in public".
Mr Broussard has received local criticism for the ordinance, with some Delcambre residents claiming that the proposal is racially motivated, due to the popularity of "sagging pants" among black hip-hop fans. However, he responded: "White people wear sagging pants, too."
White America is happy to let them steal their stuff, after all we have insurance and jobs, we'll get more/better stuff, just don't do it while we're home. Don't beat it out of us. Just ask. We're nice.
Whoopty Rape Angel:What you fail to grasp is that one needs power in order to affect their racist agendas. You cannot honestly compare Korean shop owners' behavior and the history of U.S. racial oppression.
You are confused. Come to my class, I'll set you straight.
/you do have a point about linguistic murkiness.
If you are talking about society as a whole, you have a point, but on one on one or in smaller groups minorities can and do have power. The maid in a hotel has power.
I am not saying the korean and the US are comprabale in what they have done, I am saying the school of thought that they used to justify it is the same. I am saying their behavior is the same.
spacechicken170am:Whoopty Rape Angel: Hey I worked hard for my doctorate and have a nice job as a result, don't give me that bullshiat you anti-intellectual goon.
1) physical violence is always illegal, you're creating a red herring 2) I mean economically and politically dominant (you know, "power") 3) equating honkey with racial slurs aimed at black people ignores U.S. history in its entirety.
Read a book.
I have no idea what you mean by "act on racial tendency" Who's making up words now?
This is an internet news blog most of the people on here have degrees. I have a degree in software engineering but I don't use it to try to qualify my arguments. You are simply trying to imply that you are smarter than the people you're arguing with instead of attacking their points. You imply that African Americans are not racists because they are not part of the dominant race. You imply that they lack the power to be racists. I'm saying that they do have the power to be racists since they are a protected class. Now argue my point instead of my useless knowledge of a stupid messed up language that nobody really cares about.
1) Motive is always taken into account when punishments are dealt out, therefore my point is valid. I'm implying that they will receive less punishment for punching a white person who used a racial slur towards them than a white man would receive in a similar situation.
2) Power comes in many forms and since we're discussing racism I thought that maybe power could mean the ability to exhibit racial behaviors.
3) Calling me a cracker also ignores history as well. The word implies that my ancestors were whipcrackers (former slave owners hired whipcrackers or overseers to keep the slaves in line). My ancestors came over right before the civil war and fought for the North. They were never slave owners.
Finally, if you really want to argue over stupid crap then which word did I make up?
"act on racial tendency" All of those words are valid words. If you said I made up the phrase then yes you would be correct.
where do you get this "protected class" idea from? If their so protected how come bills like this are being bandied about?
as for point #1, you are wrong. You assault someone, you're in for it, regardless if someone was calling you names.
I bring up my degree on this very subject because it is germane. When the primary source of most posters' socio-political understanding is Mirram Webster and Freeper talking points I do feel the need to try to inject some higher-end knowledge.
I still don't know what you mean by "act on racial tendency"?
rewind2846:Thunderpipes And what if crime statistics clearly show you are more in danger of a black guy with pants around his knees, than of a white guy in a suit and tie? It is not racism to use common sense.
Michael Coley Original Charge: Criminal Possession Of A Controlled Substance, 5th and Resisting Arrest Wanted For: Violation of Probation
Jeffrey McMahon, Raymond M. Bowen Jr., Ben Glisan Jr., and Greg Whalley, Robbed thousands. Stole Millions.
/which of these people has caused more real harm to society?
Don't be a silly. If you want to compare that, which has caused more harm to society, corporate scandals which is rare, or massive amounts of murder, assault, drugs, and social problems caused by black culture?
And besides, none of those white guys would cause me concern on a subway, the black guy, yes, yes he would. White guy in a tie won't knife you for crack money, not all black people would either, but the chances are much, much, much, much higher.
Whoopty Rape Angel:my PhD in Sociology says otherwise. If all you have to refute my position is the dictionary then I guess we're done here.
Thats interesting. My father taught Sociology at a local college for 35 years. He disagrees with your PhD.
But help me out here. Let us assume for the sake of argument that you are right. It is not possible for minorities to be racist because they have little power as a group.
In that case we need a new word.
We need some word that describes blacks when they beat up someone white, just because they are white.
We need a word for black employers who will not hire anyone white no matter how great their need or how qualified the applicant.
We need a word for minorities who hate members of the majority just because they have a particular skin tone.
Because those things happen, and sometimes we need to talk about them. According to you, these things are not racism. Then what are they?
Whoopty Rape Angel:where do you get this "protected class" idea from?
Ok....not in agreement with the person that posted the idea of protected class, but he does have it right that blacks are a protected class.
By law (Title VII) it is called, race is a protected status. Any race but Caucasian receives that protected status without further discussion. Caucasians can be considered a protected class where the employer in question has a history of discriminating against whites (reverse racism).
atate_esq:coordman: Ok, I guess what I meant was 'I don't understand how it's racially discriminitory'.
If it discriminates against anyone, it's people with poor fashion sense, plumbers, and John Goodman.
If the law is used to disproportionately weed out young black men from the job pool or to unduely harrass young black me, then the statute (not as written, but as applied) could be considered discriminatory in application.
Of course, there would have to be proof that young black men would suffer disproportionately to young white men...it's all very complicated. Can it be done? Sure, but I'm not confident it would be a successful challenge.
I think the real issue here is that this is just a stupid thing to outlaw. It's just kinda dumb.
Why does it have to be black men and white men? What about mexicans? Or asians? I'm pretty sure if I go back and watch Fast And The Furious I can pick out a few Japanese dudes busting sags. It's really not about race, it's about the culture. To call it racially motivated is just.. I don't know... ignorant.
Whoopty Rape Angel:You might want to get a partial refund on that degree. Linguistic definitions are put together over centuries of time by countless scholars.
What you fail to grasp is that one needs power in order to affect their racist agendas. You cannot honestly compare Korean shop owners' behavior and the history of U.S. racial oppression.
You are confused. Come to my class, I'll set you straight.
/you do have a point about linguistic murkiness.
Thank you for acknowledging that point. I agree that "one needs power in order to affect their racist agendas". I'm not arguing that. You're saying on a national level one group needs dominance over the other to oppress them. That's fine. We were talking about one person. Any one person of any color is a racist for believing that any other person is inferior to them in any way based on ethnicity. That, applies to anyone who believes that whites are racists, and the only racists. They are the only racists in this country in a position to oppress on an institutional scale. There's plenty of racism around the world (institutional even) that has nothing to do with those of european decent.
Whoopty Rape Angel:I'm just working with what you give me.
I see. So how exactly would you characterize your attempt to twist a given definition of a word found in Websters? Is this the same methodology that you used in your dissertation? I would have loved to hear your defense..."Yes Professor So and So, I know what you think the definition of the words I used are but they actually mean something completely different from the accepted definitions.
liam76:Whoopty Rape Angel: What you fail to grasp is that one needs power in order to affect their racist agendas. You cannot honestly compare Korean shop owners' behavior and the history of U.S. racial oppression.
You are confused. Come to my class, I'll set you straight.
/you do have a point about linguistic murkiness.
If you are talking about society as a whole, you have a point, but on one on one or in smaller groups minorities can and do have power. The maid in a hotel has power.
I am not saying the korean and the US are comprabale in what they have done, I am saying the school of thought that they used to justify it is the same. I am saying their behavior is the same.
holy shiat, i think we're about to come to an understanding.
Yes, I am talking about the whole of society (as us sociologists sometimes do). I agree that there is a shared school of thought-one of racial superiority-at play in both scenarios.
The distinction I'm trying to make is that societal-level racism is different from interpersonal asshattery and the the former is the real problem, the latter more of an annoyance. The problem is that people often like to use the latter to justify the former, resulting in threads like the one you see before you (and myriad other social problems)
coordman:Why does it have to be black men and white men? What about mexicans? Or asians? I'm pretty sure if I go back and watch Fast And The Furious I can pick out a few Japanese dudes busting sags. It's really not about race, it's about the culture. To call it racially motivated is just.. I don't know... ignorant.
It doesn't. Any minority race can make the claim. In this instance though, we are talking about the NAACP and they are likely to be concerned with or discussing blacks.
Egad, there are too many ill-informed people on here to respond to, so I'll respond to this here racist troll:
danlpoon The "Low pants in Prison means you want Deeck" story is a myth. A myth created by a white guy to humiliate blacks. Nice. Low pants are just convenience cum habit cum fashion.
a) NOT a myth b) Take your "da white man be keepin' a brotha' DOWN" troll and go DIAF.
Snopes is wrong in this case. It doesn't mean that you WANT it, it means that you are willing to take it in exchange for favors, protection, etc.(A fine distinction, I know, but there really aren't that many gay men in prison, and fewer still actively pursue sodomy for sexual pleasure.)
I've had a close friend that did time in federal prison. I've worked on many state, and county jails in my capacity as a practicing locksmith. My brother-in-law was a policeman for a decade.
From all of these sources(particularly the first one), the answer has been the same; regardless of whether the trend was inspired by prisoners(which I believe it was), that is EXACTLY what wearing your pants around your hips means on the "inside". It means you are a biatch, and "ready for it". Don't hand me that whole "ill-fitting" explanation, either. Most of the prison-issue pants have some sort of short drawstring(typically two pieces between three and six inches long, doublestitched to either side of a break in the waistband) to bring the waist in. You should go look at some prisoners some time, and see how many are NOT wearing their pants below their waists. The ones that aren't looking to be bent over something, typically cinch their pants up almost to the point of cutting off circulation, and KNOT them.
So.. Believe me or don't, I don't care, but you can see for yourself by passing by a prison institution, and looking at the prisoners to see which ones sag, and which ones don't.
Surool:Thank you for acknowledging that point. I agree that "one needs power in order to affect their racist agendas". I'm not arguing that. You're saying on a national level one group needs dominance over the other to oppress them. That's fine. We were talking about one person. Any one person of any color is a racist for believing that any other person is inferior to them in any way based on ethnicity. That, applies to anyone who believes that whites are racists, and the only racists. They are the only racists in this country in a position to oppress on an institutional scale. There's plenty of racism around the world (institutional even) that has nothing to do with those of european decent.
Early last year, I wrote an article entitled "Who's Afraid of Black Men?", which raised the issue of how society views black men as criminals, regardless of their true nature. After posting the feature, I received tons of email. While most African Americans praised my comments, many non-blacks agreed that black men are generally violent and aggressive law breakers. After all, one just has to look at the statistics. In all fairness, I decided to do just that and discovered some very interesting details:
Among men, blacks (28.5%) are about six times more likely than whites (4.4%) to be admitted to prison during their life. Among women, 3.6% of blacks and 0.5% of whites will enter prison at least once. (U.S. Department of Justice) Based on current rates of incarceration, an estimated 7.9% of black males compared to 0.7% of white males will enter State of Federal prison by the time they are age 20 and 21.4% of black males versus 1.4% of white males will be incarcerated by age 30. (U.S. Department of Justice) Some have noted that more black men are in prison in America than are in college. (The Black and White of Justice, Freedom Magazine, Volume 128)
Statistics on black crime are, on the surface, very bleak. There are, however, some very important factors that help to influence the numbers. Consider those and a strong case for a much different view unfolds. Since 62% of persons admitted to Federal prison and 31.1% of those admitted to State prison for the first time were sentenced because of drug offenses, let us first take a look at the racial disparity in the war on drugs:
The National Institute of Drug Abuse estimated that while 12 percent of drug users are black, they make up nearly 50 percent of all drug possession arrests in the U.S. (The Black and White of Justice, Freedom Magazine, Volume 128) According to the National Drug Strategy Network, although African Americans make up less than one-third of the population in Georgia, the black arrest rate for drugs is five times greater than the white arrest rate. In addition, since 1990, African Americans have accounted for more than 75% of persons incarcerated for drug offenses in Georgia and make up 97.7% of the people in that state who are given life sentences for drug offenses.
In six California counties independently surveyed in 1995, 100% of those individuals sent to trial on drug charges were minorities, while the drug-using population in those same counties was more than 60% white. (The Black and White of Justice, Freedom Magazine, Volume 128) A CNN article in 1996 sited U.S. government figures that show more than 90 percent of all federal prosecutions for crack cocaine in 1995 were of African American defendants. In addition, unlike convictions for powered cocaine and other drugs (which wealthy, Caucasian defendants are more likely to use), a conviction for selling crack cocaine can carry a lengthy prison term without benefit of parole.
I know some people might think that African Americans are arrested so often for drug offenses because police officers target drug dealers and most blacks fit that profile. If that is indeed the case, why did an analysis by the Georgia State Board of Pardons and Paroles find that 77% of the offenses leading to the first conviction and 79% of the offenses leading to a second drug conviction involved less than one gram of a controlled substance. In addition, that same study found that 60% of the cases involved drug values of less than $50. I'm sure Georgia isn't the only state in which such statistics hold true.
What about figures for other types of crimes? According to the U.S. Department on Justice, property and drug offenses account for 76.4 % and 56.4% respectively of crimes by individuals admitted to Federal and State prison for the first time. Most criminal convictions are, therefore, not for violent crimes. Even still, there is evidence to suggest that race also plays a factor in those types of cases:
In 1997, the American Bar Association observed that quite often public defenders, who are most likely to be assigned to poor and largely minority defendants, are inexperienced, underpaid, overworked, and largely indifferent to their client's plight. (Philadelphia Bar Association Calls for Moratorium on Death, A-Infos News Service, 12/19/97) Even though it is illegal, throughout the nation, there are incidents of local officials influencing jury selection to include mostly white males. This is done mainly because local police and law officials are afraid that randomly selected jurors will be more liberal and less likely to convict defendants. (Prosecutors Object to New Method of Jury Selection, St. Petersburg Times, 12/28/98 and The Race of Decision Makers, RSTL Study) A 1990 study by The U.S. General Accounting Office, indicated that racial bias has influenced prosecutors' decisions to charge a defendant with a capital offense and/or to proceed to trial rather than plea bargain. (U.S. General Accounting Office Report, Death Penalty Sentencing, 1990)
What do all of these findings suggest? For starters, we cannot conclude how many African Americans or black males are actually guilty of committing crimes. We can only obtain data on the number of black males who are arrested for and convicted of a crime. While arrest rates are highly subjective, one could argue that a conviction is a guilty sentence in the eyes of the law. Though that is true, given the racial undertones and biases still present in the American judicial system, it seems highly unjust to assume that black crime statistics are a valid indication of the state of the entire community of African American males.
Am I implying that African American males do not commit crimes? Not at all. In my opinion, there is an equal distribution of criminals (and law abiding citizens) among all racial and ethnic groups and blacks are no more likely to be criminals than are whites. The data shows, however, that African Americans more likely than others to be arrested and convicted. It is for that reason that I propose we use our intelligence and humanity to look beyond the numbers. Even though it has been shown time and time again that racial discrimination still exists in almost every segment of our society, (Driving While Black, Police & Civil Rights Leaders Sit Down to Build Bridges, Painting Insanity Black, Avis Charged with Discrimination, The New Face of Racism, Race & The Death Penalty, Bell Atlantic Sued for Discrimination, Judge OKs Boeing Bias Settlement, Black Customers Sue Denny's) why do some people find it impossible to consider that it also exists in our judicial process?
Will we ever be able to agree on the truth about black crime (or know the real story on white crime) in this nation? I doubt it. I do hope we will open the lines of communication and learn to discuss all of the facts. Only then will we be able to make changes and overcome the tremendous effect that race continues to have on the perception of black males in America.
libbynomore2: What a stupid response to a reasoned point. I guess what you're saying that people should be able to just walk around wearing nothing but underwear? Yeah, and I suppose in your ignorance you think that makes you enlightened and open-minded?
No, it just makes you a classless and clueless idiot.
But fine, I'll mind my own business and NOT hire any of these morons to work for me, and I'll fight tooth and nail to ensure they receive not ONE DIME of taxpayer money because they are unable to get a job as a reault of their unbelieveable stupidity.
I really do think you need to swtich to decaf, for your own health. Stress is a major cause of helth problems, and I think you need to do anything you can to calm down a bit. Your entire argument was based on of putting words in my mouth. You've probably been on fark long enough to know the term "strawman." I know it gets thrown around a lot, but I think it is applicable in this situation. The logical fallacy farkers can correct me if I am wrong.
I never once said it was okay to walk around in your underwear.(Btw, ever been to the beach? Most people's bathing suits are far more revealing than their underwear. I always thought that was kinda funny.)
I never recommended somebody dress for a job interview the same way they dress on the street. Nobody would hire anybody who wore their street clothes to an interview.
What exactly is a "classless and clueless idiot"?
I just think the government should not be telling people how to dress. If you are from Florida they probably spent that "ONE PENNY" of your taxpayer money that is so precious just to get this bill into deliberation.
I've had a close friend that did time in federal prison. I've worked on many state, and county jails in my capacity as a practicing locksmith. My brother-in-law was a policeman for a decade.
Locksmith? I was a warden, douche. For 13 years. Programs and Security. Public and Private. Jail and Prison. Min and Max. Male and Female. I still do security audits in TX.
Dancin_In_Anson:Whoopty Rape Angel: I'm just working with what you give me.
I see. So how exactly would you characterize your attempt to twist a given definition of a word found in Websters? Is this the same methodology that you used in your dissertation? I would have loved to hear your defense..."Yes Professor So and So, I know what you think the definition of the words I used are but they actually mean something completely different from the accepted definitions.
Yes, in graduate work one often does use novel definitions of words. Since when is the dictionary the be all end all of word definition?
Whoopty Rape Angel:The distinction I'm trying to make is that societal-level racism is different from interpersonal asshattery and the the former is the real problem, the latter more of an annoyance. The problem is that people often like to use the latter to justify the former, resulting in threads like the one you see before you (and myriad other social problems)
The distinction really makes no sense though. The societal-level racism is only possible because of the individual form of it. The only think that makes it societal is that a group of people do it. Aren't there a group of blacks, Hispanics, Native Americans, women, gays, etc. this country? Can't those groups join together and make group decisions based on individual, but common prejudices?
I remember the video of black guys breaking bricks on that trucker's head during the LA riots. They were having a blast, doing serious harm to a defenseless white guy. According to some of you, this is not racism?
atate_esq 2008-03-27 03:09:21 PM Caucasians can be considered a protected class where the employer in question has a history of discriminating against whites (reverse racism).
Sorry, there's no such thing as " reverse racism. " Racism is racism. To use the term " reverse " when talking about black racism against whites presumes that racism applies to whites only and anything different is " reverse. "
Not true. Again, Racism is Racism and black people are not only just as capable of committing it as whites, but because they think they are immune from the charge, are quite comfortable in their racism and/or bigotry.
Burn98:Whoopty Rape Angel: my PhD in Sociology says otherwise. If all you have to refute my position is the dictionary then I guess we're done here.
Thats interesting. My father taught Sociology at a local college for 35 years. He disagrees with your PhD.
But help me out here. Let us assume for the sake of argument that you are right. It is not possible for minorities to be racist because they have little power as a group.
In that case we need a new word.
We need some word that describes blacks when they beat up someone white, just because they are white.
We need a word for black employers who will not hire anyone white no matter how great their need or how qualified the applicant.
We need a word for minorities who hate members of the majority just because they have a particular skin tone.
Because those things happen, and sometimes we need to talk about them. According to you, these things are not racism. Then what are they?
I think the term you are looking for is "racism". Sorry Whoopty Rape Angel.
Burn98:You are trying to tell me that it depends on what color the hater is.
I said no such thing. What I said is that there are accepted definitions about racism, the one liam76 obsesses over is true, so is the one used in sociology. They can both exist and not negate the meaning of the other. Anyone can be a racist. In order to carry out racist policies effectively, the offender has to be in the dominant group. What group that is depends on population, location, sample size. Pick one. It doesn't mean only one group is racist.
atate_esq:Whoopty Rape Angel: The distinction I'm trying to make is that societal-level racism is different from interpersonal asshattery and the the former is the real problem, the latter more of an annoyance. The problem is that people often like to use the latter to justify the former, resulting in threads like the one you see before you (and myriad other social problems)
The distinction really makes no sense though. The societal-level racism is only possible because of the individual form of it. The only think that makes it societal is that a group of people do it. Aren't there a group of blacks, Hispanics, Native Americans, women, gays, etc. this country? Can't those groups join together and make group decisions based on individual, but common prejudices?
I don't have the time for this one, but it is a good question.
libbynomore2:Sorry, there's no such thing as " reverse racism. " Racism is racism. To use the term " reverse " when talking about black racism against whites presumes that racism applies to whites only and anything different is " reverse.
Yes there is...in the law. Reverse racism has to be discussed in the law, because Title VII was not originally intended to deal with prejudices against whites. Therefore, whites must prove an additional element in civil actions under Title VII claiming racism that minorities don't have to prove.
/Learn what the ESQ means before arguing with me about law. Thanks
danlpoon:I've had a close friend that did time in federal prison. I've worked on many state, and county jails in my capacity as a practicing locksmith. My brother-in-law was a policeman for a decade.
Locksmith? I was a warden, douche. For 13 years. Programs and Security. Public and Private. Jail and Prison. Min and Max. Male and Female. I still do security audits in TX.
Locksmith...geezus H. CHRIST!
Look, Mr Know it all, I once knew a guy who drove by what might have been a jail every day, and he sez you should be posting MILFy pictures.
Hibno: I really do think you need to swtich to decaf, for your own health. Stress is a major cause of helth problems, and I think you need to do anything you can to calm down a bit. Your entire argument was based on of putting words in my mouth. You've probably been on fark long enough to know the term "strawmanAd Hominem." I know it gets thrown around a lot, but I think it is applicable in this situation. The logical fallacy farkers can correct me if I am wrong.
An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting).
Hibno 2008-03-27 03:14:58 PM Btw, ever been to the beach? Most people's bathing suits are far more revealing than their underwear. I always thought that was kinda funny.)
interesting. So what is your expectation when you go to the beach? If you say anything but a bathing suit you're an idiot. On the other hand, if I take my kids to the mall, I have every right to expect that NO skimpy bathing suits would be worn by those mall patrons. If really cannot understand the difference there....again.....idiot
yet another bad analogy. hey, maybe you NEED some Caffeine. Maybe it will help you to be as thoughtful reasoned as I am.
Redtailhawk:All I have to say, is that the government should not be telling me or anyone else how to dress. At all period.
The government isn't telling anyone how to dress. They're allowing schools to ban clothing styles according to their dress code guidelines.
That's the part of the story people seem to be overlooking. This is an issue about how students dress in schools. Not they way you dress on your own time.
Whoopty Rape Angel:Since when is the dictionary the be all end all of word definition?
Yeah. I guess you're right. We should just do away with them and let everyone come up with their own definitions of words. I know my kid will be thrilled to know that he won't have to do vocabulary words in English anymore.
Whoopty Rape Angel:The distinction I'm trying to make is that societal-level racism is different from interpersonal asshattery and the the former is the real problem, the latter more of an annoyance. The problem is that people often like to use the latter to justify the former, resulting in threads like the one you see before you (and myriad other social problems)
I would like to point out that discrimination on the basis of race is illegal in all 50 states. Therefore based on your definition, there is no racism is the USA. Our society has outlawed it.
We do have a lot of individuals illegally discriminating against other individuals because of race. But according to you that is not racism, just asshattery.
Cmalta:Redtailhawk: All I have to say, is that the government should not be telling me or anyone else how to dress. At all period.
The government isn't telling anyone how to dress. They're allowing schools to ban clothing styles according to their dress code guidelines.
That's the part of the story people seem to be overlooking. This is an issue about how students dress in schools. Not they way you dress on your own time.
Then the school boards should be addressing it, not the State Senate. If they were going to pass a law, I still think they could have avoided all the BS by simply requiring school uniforms statewide.
atate_esq 2008-03-27 03:20:58 PM libbynomore2: Sorry, there's no such thing as " reverse racism. " Racism is racism. To use the term " reverse " when talking about black racism against whites presumes that racism applies to whites only and anything different is " reverse.
Yes there is...in the law. Reverse racism has to be discussed in the law, because Title VII was not originally intended to deal with prejudices against whites. Therefore, whites must prove an additional element in civil actions under Title VII claiming racism that minorities don't have to prove.
/Learn what the ESQ means before arguing with me about law. Thanks
Sorry.....your explanation only proved that RACISM is harder to prove for whites than blacks, you explain or justify " reverse ' racism.
Racism is Racism. The definition is the same regardless of which race is commiting the act.
libbynomore2:Sorry.....your explanation only proved that RACISM is harder to prove for whites than blacks, you explain or justify " reverse ' racism.
Racism is Racism. The definition is the same regardless of which race is commiting the act.
period
Blah blah blah.
You'd go a lot farther in life if you didn't argue with everyone about everything.
You are wrong. There is a legally defined term known as reverse racism. It has it's on law, it's on cases and it requires difference elements than straight racism (that means the definition is different).
Is that right or fair? I don't think so and a few Courts of Appeals agree, but the SCOTUS hasn't addressed it yet.
DROxINxTHExWIND:NOT ONE of you has ever gone to a job interview and seen a candidate dressed like a gangster. It's just something for you to say.
Wrong. I was in Toys R Us not too long ago standing in line at the customer service desk and a kid dressed in such a fashion walked in. He went up to one of the kids working there and said he was here for his job interview. He had the baggy pants, crooked hat, fake limp. I was pretty shocked that he showed up dressed like that. I don't know if he got the job.
mrshowrules:Burn98: Whoopty Rape Angel: my PhD in Sociology says otherwise. If all you have to refute my position is the dictionary then I guess we're done here.
Thats interesting. My father taught Sociology at a local college for 35 years. He disagrees with your PhD.
But help me out here. Let us assume for the sake of argument that you are right. It is not possible for minorities to be racist because they have little power as a group.
In that case we need a new word.
We need some word that describes blacks when they beat up someone white, just because they are white.
We need a word for black employers who will not hire anyone white no matter how great their need or how qualified the applicant.
We need a word for minorities who hate members of the majority just because they have a particular skin tone.
Because those things happen, and sometimes we need to talk about them. According to you, these things are not racism. Then what are they?
I think the term you are looking for is "racism". Sorry Whoopty Rape Angel.
you are using psychological definitions of racism, not a sociological one. I'm not talking about attitudes, I'm referring to the use of race as a means of organizing social institutions. In this case, marginalizing black youths by utilizing arbitrary rules/laws pertaining to how they dress as the mechanism.
GlassHouses:Marla Singer's Laundry: GlassHouses: I'd be psyched to see a low-pants bill in my office so I don't have to keep looking at the thongs of the junior staff.
//My lawn. Off. Now!
More like, "I'm having hot flashes! Cover up, you little harlot!"
Nah, I just don't like looking at their underwear...Call me crazy, but I think showing your underwear (for either gender) should not be an "office" thing. :) No droopy pants on the guys, no thongs showing on the girls.
Yeah, I'm with you on that. Not very professional.
Whoopty Rape Angel:The distinction I'm trying to make is that societal-level racism is different from interpersonal asshattery and the the former is the real problem, the latter more of an annoyance. The problem is that people often like to use the latter to justify the former, resulting in threads like the one you see before you (and myriad other social problems)
Well first off I don't think there is such a stark difference. In a mostly black neighborhood a white person is going to face (or is just as likely to face) the same that black person would if the roles were reversed.
I don't think I have ever heard someone justifying the thoughts of the KKK, or discriminating against hiring someone because of Louis Farrakhan.
Also when it comes to societal level racism, it is debatable to say how much of a problem it is. Crime, lack of education, illegitimate children can't just be pinned on racism.
What specific social problems are caused by putting all racist acts under the same umbrella? by saying they are all wrong? I can see more problems caused by saying only white people are racist.
Burn98:Whoopty Rape Angel: The distinction I'm trying to make is that societal-level racism is different from interpersonal asshattery and the the former is the real problem, the latter more of an annoyance. The problem is that people often like to use the latter to justify the former, resulting in threads like the one you see before you (and myriad other social problems)
I would like to point out that discrimination on the basis of race is illegal in all 50 states. Therefore based on your definition, there is no racism is the USA. Our society has outlawed it.
We do have a lot of individuals illegally discriminating against other individuals because of race. But according to you that is not racism, just asshattery.
Right. It's illegal so it doesn't happen. One stroke of the legislative pen undid hundreds of years of systematic oppression and they should just get with the program, right?
You'd go a lot farther in life if you didn't argue with everyone about everything.
You are wrong. There is a legally defined term known as reverse racism. It has it's on law, it's on cases and it requires difference elements than straight racism (that means the definition is different).
I only argue with people that I just can't believe or who say things that I just don't believe to be true.
Racism is but one act and has one definition regardless of the race of the perp. or vic. HOWEVER, if you are actually saying that there is a legal statute that defines " REVERSE RACISM " as a specific and unique crime I think we'd all like see that statute. Nothing personal, but your word alone on fark isn't nearly enough.
That is all I have been trying to say. Yet this Sociological definition Whoopty Rape Angel has been defending says that Rev. Wright can not be racist because he is not a member of the dominant group.
That is what I was responding to. If you do not disagree with me on that, then why did you respond to me defending that definition?
you are using psychological definitions of racism, not a sociological one. I'm not talking about attitudes, I'm referring to the use of race as a means of organizing social institutions. In this case, marginalizing black youths by utilizing arbitrary rules/laws pertaining to how they dress as the mechanism.
NOT ONE of you has ever gone to a job interview and seen a candidate dressed like a gangster. It's just something for you to say.
I have a dude here who wears that gear nearly everyday. Nice kid, young. He does our scanning and reproduction. He's pretty serious about music so we give him a break.
It's pretty funny, we'll be having dignitaries in for whatever and here saunters Robby to set up the recorder with baggy pants, the hat, etc. He can't help but talk, that''s the kind of guy he is.
I remember once we had Connie Francis in our office and he knew she was "in music" and he wrangled a Nashville contact out of her like a pro.
He made more of an impact on her than anyone else around here.
We also have a lot of employees who wear traditional African clothes. Very cool. I don't see much difference, frankly.
That is all I have been trying to say. Yet this Sociological definition Whoopty Rape Angel has been defending says that Rev. Wright can not be racist because he is not a member of the dominant group.
That is what I was responding to. If you do not disagree with me on that, then why did you respond to me defending that definition?
Okay, fine, then lets all indulge Whoopty Rage Angel and say that Rev. Wright is not practicing institutionalized racism, but in fact, a bigotted, small-minded purveyor of prejudiced hate. Happy now?
liam76:Whoopty Rape Angel: The distinction I'm trying to make is that societal-level racism is different from interpersonal asshattery and the the former is the real problem, the latter more of an annoyance. The problem is that people often like to use the latter to justify the former, resulting in threads like the one you see before you (and myriad other social problems)
Well first off I don't think there is such a stark difference. In a mostly black neighborhood a white person is going to face (or is just as likely to face) the same that black person would if the roles were reversed.
I don't think I have ever heard someone justifying the thoughts of the KKK, or discriminating against hiring someone because of Louis Farrakhan.
Also when it comes to societal level racism, it is debatable to say how much of a problem it is. Crime, lack of education, illegitimate children can't just be pinned on racism.
What specific social problems are caused by putting all racist acts under the same umbrella? by saying they are all wrong? I can see more problems caused by saying only white people are racist.
I would argue that this macro-level racism IS the REAL problem. Who gives a damn if someone calls you nasty names.
Mortgage companies red-lining (racial segregating neighborhoods) and the ghettoization that follows
Lack of funding for poor schools (black, white and other, admittedly)
Lack of Blacks in positions of political power
Whites denying the existence of a racist society to justify their privileged positions.
These are problems
/for the record, if you are going to be assaulted/killed the overwhelming odds on favorite is someone of your own race.
I don't care how someone wears their pants, as long as it's not one of my kids, because I have much more important and meaninful things to concern myself with. The TRULY UNFORTUNATE aspect of this story, is that those from the NAACP aren't saying EXACTLY the same thing!!!
That is all I have been trying to say. Yet this Sociological definition Whoopty Rape Angel has been defending says that Rev. Wright can not be racist because he is not a member of the dominant group.
That is what I was responding to. If you do not disagree with me on that, then why did you respond to me defending that definition?
Because it really is a definition used in Sociology. I know, I had pretty much the same heated argument in class when they used it as you're having now. The thing is, as I see it, Sociology tends to usurp words from other fields and redefine them. When speaking with Sociologists, keep in mind that they are talking on a much larger scale, it will help to keep you sane.