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(Some Guy)   Microsoft still too busy fixing Vista bugs to shed any light on the 235 patents it claims are infringed by Linux   (regdeveloper.co.uk) divider line 48
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1215 clicks; posted to Geek » on 27 Mar 2008 at 11:03 AM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



48 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread
 
2008-03-27 11:11:34 AM  
If there were any they would have stated them already. Micorsoft is full of bs, and afraid of Linux.

/Hardy Heron Rawks
 
2008-03-27 11:11:59 AM  
Wow. Pure FUD.

"Microsoft patents attorney Jim Markwith justified the reason not to publish the claimed patents saying it was 'administratively impossible'."

Translation- we're not going to tell you what you're doing wrong, but- trust us, you're doing it wrong.
 
2008-03-27 11:20:53 AM  
Question:

Since Linux is free and from what I understand, the only thing you "can" charge for is support...what is MSFT's issue?
 
2008-03-27 11:23:09 AM  
M$ SUCKS!

LINUX RULES!


/there. thread summarized and over before it even really started.
 
2008-03-27 11:25:31 AM  
I read that as:

patients are singed.
 
2008-03-27 11:25:57 AM  
CheeseEatingBulldog: If there were any they would have stated them already. Micorsoft is full of bs, and afraid of Linux.

/Hardy Heron Rawks


Yeah, right. Microsoft will not fear Linux, at least in the home computer market, until they make it easy enough for the average user.

And by average user, I mean the numbskulls who think you can pick up the mouse and use it like the Wii-mote. THAT'S the caliber of users you need to design around to take on the house that Gates built.

And as a matter of point, when are these "Vista sux LOL" posts gonna get old for you Linux/MacOS fans? Vista is a pretty good system so long as you have a computer that can run it. If you're trying to run it on a 1.2GH processor with 512MB of RAM, then yeah, you're gonna have performance issues.

It's not for everyone, but if you've got the horsepower and a little patients to learn a new system other than XP, it's quite handy.
 
2008-03-27 11:27:34 AM  
nkanofolives: Question:

Since Linux is free and from what I understand, the only thing you "can" charge for is support...what is MSFT's issue?


They want to lock in users to their suck, so that when their new modular / subscription OS comes out you won't have any say in what they charge or what they do. Linux (check out Hardy Heron) is doing really well with things like parralells, plug and play video / printers etc and windows is now seeing a threat, especially as their latest demonbaby has epic fail.
 
2008-03-27 11:37:31 AM  
FTFA: Smith claimed patents foster innovation and Microsoft would charge for cross licensing of its patents according to each patent's value.

WTF? Since when is claiming an idea as your own, suing everyone who may accidentally create something close to being almost similar, and charging everyone else to use it "fostering innovation"?

/Well, it is Microsoft we're talking about...
 
2008-03-27 11:43:44 AM  
Gonz: "Microsoft patents attorney Jim Markwith justified the reason not to publish the claimed patents saying it was 'administratively impossible'."


Even more curious: Apparently it's not impossible to count them, just impossible to write them down.

=Smidge=
 
2008-03-27 11:48:45 AM  
Shadowknight: Vista is a pretty good system so long as you have a computer that can run it.

A 747 jet is a pretty good vehicle to own so long as you have 1/2 a mile of tarmac to land it on.
 
2008-03-27 11:58:56 AM  
Shadowknight:
Yeah, right. Microsoft will not fear Linux, at least in the home computer market, until they make it easy enough for the average user.

And by average user, I mean the numbskulls who think you can pick up the mouse and use it like the Wii-mote. THATS the caliber of users you need to design around to take on the house that Gates built.


My parents are computer illiterate. They have been using XP for about 3 months. I switched it to ubuntu hardy heron (dual boot). Not much difficulty since all they use is firefox. They find firefox icon on desktop, double click and go from there. I dont have to worry about viruses, or spyware (or running those programs). Ill eventually customize it so it runs faster (maybe xubuntu). Or maybe have the OS/firefox run in the ram somehow when starting up.

The computer is pentium 4 1.7ghz, 768 ram (was 512), 32mb nvidia tnt2. No way Im going to purchase vista to put on it.
Im not going to put vista on my new (Jan 2007) computer either. No point or advantage in doing so. Ive seen vista run on 2 laptops and one tower (low end computers) and it ran just as good as XP on a 4 year old computer. So no improvement for low end computers (intel 915/945 chipset) that came with vista preinstalled over low end computers 4 years ago with XP preinstalled.
To actually make the low end intel chipset and vista work good you need to disable aero, which was one of the much advertised improvements (\"the wow starts now\").

Shadowknight: Vista is a pretty good system so long as you have a computer that can run it.
Yet it comes preinstalled on computers that should not be running it. So that is the manufacturers and microsofts fault.
But I agree, with 2 gb ram, nice processor, nice video card, it should run fine. But not everyone buys that, nor knows that they need to have certain hardware to run vista properly when buying a computer.
 
2008-03-27 11:59:08 AM  
Shadowknight: It's not for everyone, but if you've got the horsepower and a little patients to learn a new system other than XP, it's quite handy.

Name one major enhancement that makes Vista desirable compared to XP. Difficulty: that's attractive to the average user you used as your example, that confuses mice with wiimotes.

nkanofolives: Since Linux is free and from what I understand, the only thing you "can" charge for is support...what is MSFT's issue?

Basically, Microsoft (and many other software companies) abuse the patent system with a special subset of patents of "business process" patents.

Basically, if you come up with a new way of making burgers for your fastfood joint (put the ketchup on BEFORE the mustard), you can patent it. That's bad enough, but since software is all a business process, people decided that you can patent software like it was some physical invention (traditionally, creative works are protected by copyright, not patent law).

Microsoft has a bunch of software related patents, and basically- anybody who does anything covered by the patent is violating MS's intellectual property.
 
2008-03-27 12:00:15 PM  
FTFA: "Microsoft patents attorney Jim Markwith justified the reason not to publish the claimed patents saying it was 'administratively impossible'."

Wow. That's some crappy administration they're working with. Can I really rely on their products? Maybe I should give this 'Open Source' thing a look.
 
2008-03-27 12:02:47 PM  
andrewabc: But not everyone buys that, nor knows that they need to have certain hardware to run vista properly when buying a computer.

Not to play the fanboi card, but each version of OSX has been a performance improvement over the last. Apple cuts support for the lowest end hardware (usually really old- Leopard still supports G4s, but not G3s), and everyone else gets a more responsive computer. The jump from Panther to Tiger was dramatic, the jump between Tiger and Leopard less so. In both cases, however, new software makes my machine run faster with the same hardware.

Vista's requirements come from overly complex design, driven by management demands, and not reality.
 
2008-03-27 12:06:29 PM  
To take t3knomanser's post even further, the problem with these types of patents is that you could do just about anything remotely related to the patented software and still be in violation. If you use similar enough code to do something completely different, you're in violation. If you use different code but achieve a similar result, you're still in violation. These patents are the exact opposite of "fostering innovation".
 
2008-03-27 12:13:23 PM  
Shadowknight: And by average user, I mean the numbskulls who think you can pick up the mouse and use it like the Wii-mote. THAT'S the caliber of users you need to design around to take on the house that Gates built.

A lot of people say this, but I think it's completely untrue - if all you use a computer for is to access gmail then you can pretty much run anything you like and be just as happy. The comparative advantage to Windows is when you're trying to do relatively complex things: Word / Open Office / Google Docs look the same until you start needing the more advanced features. A Windows network is more attractive when you have hundreds of users over multiple sites. .net is probably the best solution to write your custom business software, and so on...
 
2008-03-27 12:15:35 PM  
pjc51: .net is probably the best solution to write your custom business software, and so on...

I'm a .NET developer, so I'm really getting a kick out of that reply.

It's okay. It's better than Java, but the CLS is pretty limited. Mind you, it's the only halfway decent OOP tool with major corporate support, but I'd love something else a bit more Ruby/LISP like.

//Ruby, just LISP with dot-notation. LISP is the programmatic language of Eden.
 
2008-03-27 12:17:58 PM  
I wonder how many of these patents existed before Linux implemented the "offending" code. I'm guessing a rather low percentage.
 
2008-03-27 12:19:29 PM  
Saborlas: I wonder how many of these patents existed before Linux implemented the "offending" code. I'm guessing a rather low percentage.

Probably a lot, actually. Big companies tend to patent troll- have an idea, patent it! Just in case.
 
2008-03-27 12:51:12 PM  
Shadowknight: CheeseEatingBulldog: If there were any they would have stated them already. Micorsoft is full of bs, and afraid of Linux.

/Hardy Heron Rawks

Yeah, right. Microsoft will not fear Linux, at least in the home computer market, until they make it easy enough for the average user.

And by average user, I mean the numbskulls who think you can pick up the mouse and use it like the Wii-mote. THAT'S the caliber of users you need to design around to take on the house that Gates built.

And as a matter of point, when are these "Vista sux LOL" posts gonna get old for you Linux/MacOS fans? Vista is a pretty good system so long as you have a computer that can run it. If you're trying to run it on a 1.2GH processor with 512MB of RAM, then yeah, you're gonna have performance issues.

It's not for everyone, but if you've got the horsepower and a little patients to learn a new system other than XP, it's quite handy.


So you think your grampa can use Windows Vista with no problems? Especially when microsoft rolls out updates that disable his internet or slow the computer to a stall? I'm just asking because I've not had this happen on linux but both sets of my grand parents have had these issues with vista.
 
2008-03-27 01:27:34 PM  
I'm not normally one to harp on what a hellish OS Windows is, but I do notice that Windows and Linux seem to have differing approaches to things like Error handling.

Typical Windows error-message:

"Inverse-Relation Tesseract Induction Mode!

totallypointlessandemptyfile32.dll Could Not be Found.

Vaporize C:?"


Press Any Key/Flinch/Breathe to Vaporize C: [OK]

Ubuntu, on the other hand, just last night gave me some error about my DVD drive not having some mode or other enabled and that my drive is going to operate in SlooooooooooMo until I do enable it. DMA mode or DNA mode... BBQ Mode ... Something like that. It then provided me with the exact syntax I need to enter in a Terminal to correct the problem.

And people say Linux is for hardcore geeks only?
 
2008-03-27 01:34:28 PM  
Shadowknight: Yeah, right. Microsoft will not fear Linux, at least in the home computer market, until they make it easy enough for the average user.

...

It's not for everyone, but if you've got the horsepower and a little patients to learn a new system other than XP, it's quite handy.


Aside from your premise being false, it's off topic.

The point is that Microsoft DOES fear Linux because it's using patent FUD by scaring corporations away from Linux for fear of being sued by Microsoft because of those patents. Never mind what those patents are... they have them and they're not afraid to use them. There is no other explanation for Microsoft's patent FUD besides fear of Linux.

There's a similar situation with HTML5 that kinda pisses me off. HTML5 wanted to make Ogg/Vorbis/Theora (iirc) required codecs for browsers to support when supporting <audio> and <video>. Then Nokia wrote a letter saying that we can't have that because someone, somewhere might have a relevant patent. (The rumor being it might be Nokia, but they won't say) Next it gets taken out of the spec, and no one yet has been able to find a decent codec that's popular, open source, and free from patent fears.

The idea that the vague notion that a patent might exist can scare companies away from something useful (and free!) is indicative of a very screwed up patent system.
 
2008-03-27 01:47:24 PM  
they're just bent cause they are witnessing the downfall of their mighty empire
 
2008-03-27 02:48:13 PM  
Wogus: I'm not normally one to harp on what a hellish OS Windows is, but I do notice that Windows and Linux seem to have differing approaches to things like Error handling.

Typical Windows error-message:

"Inverse-Relation Tesseract Induction Mode!

totallypointlessandemptyfile32.dll Could Not be Found.

Vaporize C:?"

Press Any Key/Flinch/Breathe to Vaporize C: [OK]

Ubuntu, on the other hand, just last night gave me some error about my DVD drive not having some mode or other enabled and that my drive is going to operate in SlooooooooooMo until I do enable it. DMA mode or DNA mode... BBQ Mode ... Something like that. It then provided me with the exact syntax I need to enter in a Terminal to correct the problem.

And people say Linux is for hardcore geeks only?


Ubuntu is, from what I understand, designed to be rather friendly to new users and those not familiar with Linux. The process on a distro like, say, Gentoo or Slackware would be considerably less n00b-friendly.

/Ubuntu 7.10 (GG)
//Waiting for my new hdd to update to 8.04 HH
 
2008-03-27 02:55:51 PM  
Shadowknight: And by average user, I mean the numbskulls who think you can pick up the mouse and use it like the Wii-mote. THAT'S the caliber of users you need to design around to take on the house that Gates built.

Isn't that Apple's business plan?
 
2008-03-27 02:59:58 PM  
t3knomanser: Saborlas: I wonder how many of these patents existed before Linux implemented the "offending" code. I'm guessing a rather low percentage.

Probably a lot, actually. Big companies tend to patent troll- have an idea, patent it! Just in case.


I'd call that patent-squatting, myself.

Time to switch to an actionable "Prove to us that you're gonna DO something with this idea" patent system.

Wogus: Ubuntu, on the other hand, just last night gave me some error about my DVD drive not having some mode or other enabled and that my drive is going to operate in SlooooooooooMo until I do enable it. DMA mode or DNA mode... BBQ Mode ... Something like that. It then provided me with the exact syntax I need to enter in a Terminal to correct the problem.

And people say Linux is for hardcore geeks only?


Not for long, considering the leaps and bounds I've seen it take in the last year alone. Someone actually ditched standard "This is how we've always done it" Linux thinking and addressed the problems most Windows users have with Linux. I just wonder why it took so long.
 
2008-03-27 03:34:54 PM  
What is this, a kinder, gentler SCO?
 
2008-03-27 04:01:13 PM  
Wow - if Linux could just figure out how to use my wireless adapter; it'd rock.
 
2008-03-27 04:46:30 PM  
t3knomanser: Name one major enhancement that makes Vista desirable compared to XP. Difficulty: that's attractive to the average user you used as your example, that confuses mice with wiimotes.

Well, I for one find explorer to be much easier to use and much much nicer for cusomization. I keep my files very neatly organized, and the explorer in Vista makes finding my files, setting favorite folders, and combining folders/moving files really easy and fast.

For example, you copy a folder into a directory that already contains a folder of the same name. It'll ask if you want to replace, rename, or combine the folders into one. Cant do that last option in XP and I've used it many times. It's nice.

Yeah, Vista is a bit of a resource hog, but with that extra RAM used, I find that my most common programs open in an instant. Firefox is up and fully loaded less than a second after I click to open it. It surely helps that I have a nice machine to run it on, and they SHOULD have programmed it to run this smoothly on average systems. But for what it is, and for what I have., I like it, and I will never switch back to XP. Hell, I'm so used to Vista now that I find working with XP to be kind of a pain in some aspects.

Oh yeah, and my system has been nice and stable, never crashes, and I have yet to encounter a hardware issue.
 
2008-03-27 05:00:25 PM  
blahpers: What is this, a kinder, gentler SCO?

FTFY
 
2008-03-27 05:34:44 PM  
Ubuntu Hardy Heron 8.04 beta. Four weeks until it's officially released. And this is coming from a 25-year Microsoft fanboy who'd finally had it with the crap... Vista was the last straw for me.

To everybody that can still tolerate it, I wish you the best of luck. You know it's only going to get worse for you. The opposite is true of Ubuntu.
 
2008-03-27 05:36:44 PM  
Twigz221: Well, I for one find explorer to be much easier to use and much much nicer for cusomization.

Not something your average user cares about. The Explorer has a lot of really counterintuitive UI mistakes. Like the fact that you have to click all the way at the right edge of the address bar to be able to type a path. The lack of a clear "Up one level" button, and the expander-triangles that vanish when your mouse isn't over the tree pane.

Twigz221: and the explorer in Vista makes finding my files, setting favorite folders, and combining folders/moving files really easy and fast.

The find is okay, but the advanced find is a mess. It's embarrassing. Seriously, it's one of the most user-hostile screens I've seen come out of Microsoft.

Twigz221: It'll ask if you want to replace, rename, or combine the folders into one.

That is nice. I don't think that, alone, justifies the new OS, but that is an attractive feature.

Twigz221: I find that my most common programs open in an instant. Firefox is up and fully loaded less than a second after I click to open it.

My experience is quite different. What I find interesting is the level of variation I see between Vista machines in performance. I had to throw (3Ghz processor) 3GB of RAM to get it decent, and it still bogs down when I turn eye candy back on.

Mind you, my machine was forcibly upgraded from Win2000, so my perceptions may be skewed.

Twigz221: Oh yeah, and my system has been nice and stable, never crashes, and I have yet to encounter a hardware issue.

That was usually true when I used XP. Not really a "new" feature.

The point I'm making is that there's nothing about Vista that makes it a must have upgrade.

Not to play the fanboi card, the same isn't true in MacLand. Every version boosts performance, every version has some key new features (Spotlight and Dashboard in Tiger, TimeMachine and CoreAnimation in Leopard) that make them really desirable.

Considering the gap between XP and Vista, one would have expected a bit more advancement.

//And don't get me started on that damn Sidebar. It's like someone at Microsoft said, "What's the most retarded way to clutter the screen and imitate the OSX dashboard we can think of?"
 
2008-03-27 06:14:01 PM  
Shadowknight: And by average user, I mean the numbskulls who think you can pick up the mouse and use it like the Wii-mote. THAT'S the caliber of users you need to design around to take on the house that Gates built.

Why? It's not like Windows has done a bang-up job addressing that sort of user either.

/"Computer wants me to file an error report and I haven't heard from IT all day so are you going to get on it or what?"
 
2008-03-27 06:22:15 PM  
t3knomanser: Not something your average user cares about. The Explorer has a lot of really counterintuitive UI mistakes.

God (or lack thereof), I hate IE7. Speaking of counterintuitive UI, what does this mean?

power-operations.net

Because I thought it meant "Power on/off" but it turns out it means something else in Vista, which was a fun little surprise.
 
2008-03-27 07:27:29 PM  
SCO lost this battle, hopefully Microcrap will too.

Granted they have a lot more money.

"I'm sorry I patented the Start Button",

"We don't call it start"

"I don't care, the button there!!!!"
 
2008-03-27 07:49:49 PM  
t3knomanser: Shadowknight: It's not for everyone, but if you've got the horsepower and a little patients to learn a new system other than XP, it's quite handy.

Name one major enhancement that makes Vista desirable compared to XP. Difficulty: that's attractive to the average user you used as your example, that confuses mice with wiimotes.


Quite easy. The new menu browsing system. Just to type in the name of your program, and it finds it real time with every letter you type.

My dad (a Wii-moter only a few years removed) switched to Vista and LOVES that feature. No more having to "...go through a million menu, arrow things to get to the program I want."

If you want one that the average goober doesn't know about, how about memory sector usage randomization? That's pretty handy, as any virus that wants to run has to scan the memory for the active sector it needs. And that scan is like sending up a flare to the OS, making it a lot easier to identify, warn the user, and shut down.

I'm not saying it doesn't have it's drawbacks. It took a little while to get used to the way they messed with the control panel. I got annoyed with the constant administrator warning and confirmation boxes until I disabled it. And the fact that PeerGuardian still doesn't have a working Vista client that keeps my old XP Pro box still hooked up.

But you guys make it out to be some sort of digital herpes. It's not bad, and most of all the bad stuff you hear about it is nothing but internet FUD.

Incidentally, I liked Linux when I was running my own Enemy Territory (original) server. But for average, every day use and gaming? I'll take Vista and/or XP, though I never have yet to have any issue with Vista for gaming purposes. Even some of my old legacy games (had an itch to play X-COM the other day.)Smidge204: Gonz: "Microsoft patents attorney Jim Markwith justified the reason not to publish the claimed patents saying it was 'administratively impossible'."


Even more curious: Apparently it's not impossible to count them, just impossible to write them down.

=Smidge=


A couple gigs of RAM would cost you a $60-$90. Or, even better, just wait until you have the need to build/buy a new computer. I bet by then, you'll have one that would run Vista just fine.

I agree that there is no need to upgrade right now if you are happy with XP or Linux, outside of a few extra security upgrades (yes, it is more secure.) But if you have a computer that can run it, it will win you over if you give it half a chance.
 
2008-03-27 07:59:00 PM  
Oops, replied to the wrong guy.

Try this again.

syrtis: Shadowknight: Vista is a pretty good system so long as you have a computer that can run it.

A 747 jet is a pretty good vehicle to own so long as you have 1/2 a mile of tarmac to land it on.


A couple gigs of RAM would cost you a $60-$90. Or, even better, just wait until you have the need to build/buy a new computer. I bet by then, you'll have one that would run Vista just fine.

I agree that there is no need to upgrade right now if you are happy with XP or Linux, outside of a few extra security upgrades (yes, it is more secure.) But if you have a computer that can run it, it will win you over if you give it half a chance.
 
2008-03-27 08:03:32 PM  
MusicMakeMyHeadPound: t3knomanser: Not something your average user cares about. The Explorer has a lot of really counterintuitive UI mistakes.

God (or lack thereof), I hate IE7. Speaking of counterintuitive UI, what does this mean?



Because I thought it meant "Power on/off" but it turns out it means something else in Vista, which was a fun little surprise.


Yeah.. thats my only real complaint with Vista is that i cant do an easy Windowskey>u>u to shutdown or restart and the like. I hate having to click to restart my computer. What bright individual thought that was good idea?
 
2008-03-27 08:07:28 PM  
Shadowknight

http://phrosty.phoenixlabs.org/pg2-rc1/ (new window)

You are welcome. Ive had it running for a few months and it seems to work well enough to block those mean ol p2p adulteraters just fine.
 
2008-03-27 08:30:20 PM  
lewismarktwo: Shadowknight

http://phrosty.phoenixlabs.org/pg2-rc1/ (new window)

You are welcome. Ive had it running for a few months and it seems to work well enough to block those mean ol p2p adulteraters just fine.


Hey, that's pretty cool. Though, I have to say I'll still be using my old XP box for general downloading purposes, as my Vista system is my laptop that is used for school work primarily. I don't want to keep shutting down my downloads to take the thing to class.

Good knowledge for the future, though. Thanks again.
 
2008-03-27 09:09:34 PM  
Shadowknight: Quite easy. The new menu browsing system. Just to type in the name of your program, and it finds it real time with every letter you type.

Heh, I don't use that, but I installed Launchy.

But yeah, that is nice, considering we've been punished with the start menu for over a decade, it's about time they did something to mitigate the damage. Then again, when you don't use he keyboard search, the start menu is even more hostile than ever. I actually had mine break, no lie. You'd click on things and nothing would happen. Right click would only give you one option- "Properties". I was blown away by watching the Start Menu break.

Shadowknight: If you want one that the average goober doesn't know about, how about memory sector usage randomization?

Which is broken. It's not reliably random, but points for trying, I guess.
 
2008-03-27 10:01:52 PM  
t3knomanser: Shadowknight: Quite easy. The new menu browsing system. Just to type in the name of your program, and it finds it real time with every letter you type.

Heh, I don't use that, but I installed Launchy.

But yeah, that is nice, considering we've been punished with the start menu for over a decade, it's about time they did something to mitigate the damage. Then again, when you don't use he keyboard search, the start menu is even more hostile than ever. I actually had mine break, no lie. You'd click on things and nothing would happen. Right click would only give you one option- "Properties". I was blown away by watching the Start Menu break.

Shadowknight: If you want one that the average goober doesn't know about, how about memory sector usage randomization?

Which is broken. It's not reliably random, but points for trying, I guess.


So long as it changes the sector usage around upon each start up, the virus will have to do a memory scan to find where it needs to set up shop. And so long as it needs to do that, it can and will be found much easier than it has in the past.

Windows, so long as it's the leading OS, will always be attacked endlessly from all sides. At least this system adds a nice extra step the programmers need to go around, and it's one that can be easily traced.
 
2008-03-28 12:13:22 AM  
Not possible to publish the patents? Does he realize anyone can get a copy of a full patent application from the patent office?

And MS needs to get over itself with the attempts to claim patent infringement by Linux.

Of course, patents shouldn't apply to software in the first place. Copyrights, yes, patents? No way.
 
2008-03-28 01:43:12 AM  
The Vista hate will die down as more people get off their high horses and actually use the damn thing.

/has Vista installed on both home computers
//not top of the range, in fact just average consumer comps
///run just fine, smoother and easier than XP ever did
 
2008-03-28 02:53:26 AM  
danduran

The Vista hate will die down as more people get off their high horses and actually use the damn thing.

Wow. What about the people that have to deal with it on a daily basis, and still concede that it's absolute crap?

I've worked on literally hundreds of Vista machines, and I've yet to see one that performs better than XP, not even remotely close.

/the crack, get off of it.
 
2008-03-28 08:29:48 AM  
danduran: The Vista hate will die down as more people get off their high horses and actually use the damn thing.

I am using the damn thing. And it is damned. The person who conceived UAC needs to be shot. And no, I can't "just turn it off".
 
2008-03-28 12:07:43 PM  
Shadowknight: Yeah, right. Microsoft will not fear Linux, at least in the home computer market, until they make it easy enough for the average user.

First of all, halloween documents, moran. Microsoft has feared Linux (and open source in general) for a long time. Second of all, there are many linux distros that are easier than windows in many ways.

Robo Beat: Ubuntu is, from what I understand, designed to be rather friendly to new users and those not familiar with Linux. The process on a distro like, say, Gentoo or Slackware would be considerably less n00b-friendly.

And I have to imagine that Windows Server is a fair bit more complicated, not to mention DOS, but you don't judge end user Windows off it because stupid users won't be using it.

Shadowknight: Quite easy. The new menu browsing system. Just to type in the name of your program, and it finds it real time with every letter you type.

So, what, quicksilver/gnome-do/doubtlessotherapplicationsforanyotherOSyouhappentouse? not impressed. There are much better launchers out there.
 
2008-03-28 03:31:39 PM  
Shadowknight:
syrtis: Shadowknight: Vista is a pretty good system so long as you have a computer that can run it.

A 747 jet is a pretty good vehicle to own so long as you have 1/2 a mile of tarmac to land it on.

A couple gigs of RAM would cost you a $60-$90. Or, even better, just wait until you have the need to build/buy a new computer. I bet by then, you'll have one that would run Vista just fine.


Hey, I'm just sayin' the 747 is a fine vehicle, it goes further, higher and carries more people than any other vehicles that came before it. Although it can land on 1/2 a mile of tarmac, it lands much easier on 2 miles of tarmac, like I got just recently. I say to 747-haters: Don't be hatin' on the 747 just because you're happy with your primitive, puny "car".
 
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