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(National Review)   It is painful to watch defenders of Barack Obama tying themselves into knots trying to evade the obvious   (article.nationalreview.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious  
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5986 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Mar 2008 at 1:32 PM (8 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-03-26 02:02:33 PM  
LibertyFirst: Maybe America deserves to be damned by God because of what it did to African slaves? Maybe most white churches in America should be damned as well since they were complicit with slavery?

It should be pointed out that Wright's (and Obama's, and Howard Dean's) mostly-white denomination (the Congregationalists, now merged in the UCC) was actively abolitionist. They sent people out here to Kansas to fight and die to prevent the expansion of slavery. After the Civil war, they founded several Universities for freedmen.
 
2008-03-26 02:02:41 PM  
Code_Archeologist: Jaboobinator: And who is Shelby Steele, Danielle Steele's bastard daughter?

More like Uncle Ruckus' with a writing contract.


images.starpulse.com

"Colored folks talkin' about 'Save Me!' / Wasn't nothin' wrong with slavery! / At least we got good food back then -- uh huh, uh huh! / White man sho could be yo friend."
 
2008-03-26 02:03:49 PM  
LibertyFirst: Nobody is even asking this. The narrative is that the pastor is a nut, and Obama hadn't a clue of what what going on in his church of 20 years.

I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy. For some, nagging questions remain. Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely - just as I'm sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed.


The narrative is, you suck at narratives.
 
2008-03-26 02:05:35 PM  
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2008-03-26 02:06:15 PM  
Since all things are the same, except for the differences, and different except for the similarities, it is always possible to make things look similar verbally, however different they are in the real world.

That's some real deep thinking right there. This guy can't understand English, and sure as hell shouldn't be writing anything for public comsumption. What a maroon.
 
2008-03-26 02:06:41 PM  
I have to recycle this from the other thread, as it may get more mileage here:

barjockey: The point is, in what realm of possibility would Obama ever admit that he heard THOSE® remarks? He heard controversial remarks for years to the point of which he responded "Sure" rather non-chalantly given the frequency of Rev. Wright's inflammatory rhetoric. But somehow, he was mysteriously absent on the seperate occasions in which THOSE® remarks were made. He never heard THOSE® remarks second-hand either. Had no clue.

YEAH FARKING RIGHT!
 
2008-03-26 02:07:28 PM  
I'm not sure why canyoneer has singled out Obama.

I reckon it's something about taxes.
 
2008-03-26 02:08:46 PM  
Scrotar: I'm not sure why canyoneer has singled out Obama.

I reckon it's something about taxes.


I don't even know what he's doing here. Usually he only comes out from under his bridge when the headline has something to do with oil, and even then it's only to point out the obvious fact that we all use it.
 
2008-03-26 02:08:58 PM  
barjockey: I have to recycle this from the other thread, as it may get more mileage here:

'THIS'ing yourself should never be allowed to get mileage. Sorry.
 
2008-03-26 02:09:05 PM  
Remember kids, distrusting the government and fraternizing with angry Christians is only okay when WE do it!
 
2008-03-26 02:09:08 PM  
barjockey: I have to recycle this from the other thread, as it may get more mileage here:

So you are an admitted troll now?
 
2008-03-26 02:09:26 PM  
barjockey: I have to recycle this from the other thread, as it may get more mileage here

Nah, how about I just block you instead?
 
2008-03-26 02:10:41 PM  
DrZiffle: You know what Thomas Sowell's nieces and nephews call him?


Well played!
 
2008-03-26 02:10:53 PM  
DamnYankees: There is one thing that people on the right are completely incapable of understanding, and a lot of it stems from puritan and religious notions:

It is possible, and even good, to expose yourself to things you don't agree with. To never mingle with people who are different than you and who disagree with you is the height of intellectual and cultural cowardice.


Umm, isn't that what Sowell is saying, that Obama doesn't talk to anyone but leftists?

Either way, I'm glad that he doesn't. There is no point in arguing with moronic right-wingers. Of course, who is surprised that they sent out their "black" "economist" out to attack Obama?
 
2008-03-26 02:11:43 PM  
Mother Jones seems to have not paid their ISP fees, I'm getting one of those crappy ad-filled placeholder pages. What's up with that?
 
2008-03-26 02:12:08 PM  
Relatively Obscure: 'THIS'ing yourself should never be allowed to get mileage. Sorry.

I stated my final opinion on the matter without re-typing the whole thing. Not "THIS" ing as you put it.

DaSwankOne: So you are an admitted troll now?

Uh - no? Huh? See above.

Donald_McRonald: Nah, how about I just block you instead?

If words on a computer screen offend and threaten you to that degree - I would count it as an honor.
 
2008-03-26 02:12:52 PM  
Lionel Mandrake:

i159.photobucket.com

I never knew so much blubber could packed onto one face.
 
2008-03-26 02:13:30 PM  
barjockey so you decided to expand your horizons from abortion to political and evolution threads too? I sincerely hope you earn yourself a Summon Barjockey card. Keep up the good work.
 
2008-03-26 02:14:54 PM  
Egalitarian: barjockey so you decided to expand your horizons from abortion to political and evolution threads too? I sincerely hope you earn yourself a Summon Barjockey card. Keep up the good work.

A good troll's work is never done.
 
2008-03-26 02:15:31 PM  
Egalitarian: barjockey so you decided to expand your horizons from abortion to political and evolution threads too? I sincerely hope you earn yourself a Summon Barjockey card. Keep up the good work.

Yeah, like 5 years ago - where have you been?
 
2008-03-26 02:15:35 PM  
Jaboobinator: This article is offensive.

In Shelby Steele's brilliantly insightful book about Barack Obama - A Bound Man - it is painfully clear that Obama was one of those people seeking a racial identity that he had never really experienced in growing up in a white world. He was trying to become a convert to blackness, as it were - and, like many converts, he went overboard.

He converted to being black? Really? I didn't know you could do that. I'm becoming Japanese!

And who is Shelby Steele, Danielle Steele's bastard daughter?


Well Sowell does have a point. Obama is half white and half black. His only connection with the African American community was a very tenuous genetic one through his absent Kenyan father. Obama had very little that culturally linked him to most blacks in America. He didn't speak African American English, didn't inherit the same legacy of slavery and discrimination and he himself didn't even live in America for much of his youth.

That given, I still despise Sowell. I can't believe I used to like him and even read a couple of his books.
 
2008-03-26 02:15:36 PM  
barjockey, you ignorant slut.
 
2008-03-26 02:16:59 PM  
Donald_McRonald: Egalitarian: barjockey so you decided to expand your horizons from abortion to political and evolution threads too? I sincerely hope you earn yourself a Summon Barjockey card. Keep up the good work.

A good troll's work is never done.


Troll = one with a differing opinion from a dude named Donald_McRonald
 
2008-03-26 02:17:41 PM  
Seriously, If you give this guy any credibility remember that he wrote a book called Ethnic America where he broke down all people down by country of Origin and race and used economic data to support the stereotypes that we all have heard about inner city blacks. He created a racial ladder where he placed blacks one rung above Indians. He even tried to tie the discrimination both blacks and Jews have faced and then point out that Jewish families are more successful than blacks. This is definitely the guy you want to go to if you are looking for someone that is color blind and does not perpetuate stereotypes. Mr. Sowell, you are officially an asshole.
 
2008-03-26 02:17:42 PM  
If Obama gets the nomination, I would bet that the republicans will go into Willy Horton overdrive. I'll bet they will turn off many voters by going over the top on race baiting adds.

Oh yeah, when they rag on their own religious nuts who said the US deserved 9/11 I will put some credence into their complaints about rev Wright, until then they are just a bunch of pious phony baloneys.
 
2008-03-26 02:20:31 PM  
Scrotar

I'm indifferent to Obama. It's his fan boys that I find comical - and dangerous - in a lukewarm, disheartening sort of way.
 
2008-03-26 02:21:43 PM  
It is painful to watch defenders of Barack Obama tying themselves into knots trying to evade the obvious.

Some are saying that Senator Obama cannot be held responsible for what his pastor, Jeremiah Wright, said. In their version of events, Barack Obama just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time - and a bunch of mean-spirited people are trying to make something out of it.

It makes a good story, but it won't stand up under scrutiny.


↓ Keep reading this article ↓

How about... no.
 
2008-03-26 02:24:46 PM  
Paedophile_Deluxe: Jeremiah Wright is in the same mold as the kinds of people Barack Obama began seeking out in college - members of the anti-American, counter-cultural Left.

God, can we stop this idiotic trend of calling people "anti-American" or "America haters"? How many Americans hate America? Calling people "anti-American" who obviously aren't is moronic, and makes you look like a seven year old, or Joe McCarthy.


You would be genuinely surprised how many people that live in this country hate what this country stands for. Go to an anti-war rally sometime, and look at the sponsors of the rallies and who they are connected to. The normal person protesting war? Not an America hater. The people behind the scenes who are sponsoring these rallies? Big time. A good example of this is @ Zombietime.com (new window). Great photographic evidence of a lot of what goes on.
 
2008-03-26 02:25:25 PM  
Donald_McRonald: I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy. For some, nagging questions remain. Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely - just as I'm sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed.

Thank you. I had missed this somehow. I have more respect for Obama now. Seriously.

I don't totally disagree with what his pastor said BTW. America has done some really terrible things to all sorts of people throughout the years.

The reason this is so controversial is a) I'm surprised that Obama didn't think that this stuff would come back to bite him b) white Christians/America do not want to confront or admit for one moment that their precious country might have made mistakes in regards to race.

The one question I still have is why didn't he leave the church? If my pastor race baited during a sermon it would be the last Sunday I was there until he left. That's why I think he did agree with some of it at least, but to what extent we will never know.
 
2008-03-26 02:25:33 PM  
If you close your eyes, block your ears, smoke a bunch of crack, drop acid, and beat your head against the sidewalk for 2 hours, Obama almost seems sincere! Almost.

/try it!
 
2008-03-26 02:25:56 PM  
ifarkthereforiam: If Obama gets the nomination, I would bet that the republicans will go into Willy Horton overdrive. I'll bet they will turn off many voters by going over the top on race baiting adds.

The 527's are doing this already.
 
2008-03-26 02:26:50 PM  
____ __ barjockey ___ ____

Monospaced font to keep it easy.

/bold text isn't very bold in monospace
 
2008-03-26 02:27:10 PM  
According to this Link (new window), Obama continued going to Trinity because his wife made him.

/still voting for Obama cause I don't care what his pastor said
//gay Southern Baptist (born into both) so I disagree with 99.2% of my church's leadership
 
2008-03-26 02:27:11 PM  
Humean_Nature: 1. Anyone who says that "The Left" does anything is clearly as big a moron as anyone who claims that they know anything about "the Right".



Agreed. It's a very conspiratorial mindset that leads one to believe in a unified and cohesive "left". It's about as silly as those who talk about epochal conflicts between the "the west" and "the east". Maybe it's because right wingers tend to adore authority and hierarchy a lot more than most liberals.
 
2008-03-26 02:27:34 PM  
LibertyFirst: This is the question nobody is asking:

Did Obama actually believe to be true what his pastor says and believes?


you're right.

no one has asked that question yet. not a single person. nope. not once.
 
2008-03-26 02:27:36 PM  
..and I forgot a comma. Crap.
 
2008-03-26 02:28:05 PM  
spiritual adviser to the president says 9/11 was caused by gays and abortions? cool.

spiritual adviser to the president says Katrina was caused by atheists, and gays? oh well, crazy reverends are just like that.

spiritual adviser to a presidential candidate says 9/11 was caused by our thoughtless foreign policy? WTF!

I think most of what wright said was some dumb, tin foil hat lunacy (the government created AIDS, come on man), but I don't think obama is being treated evenly. none of these people crying foul over wright's bullshiat were too concerned about farwell or robertson saying crazy assed hateful shiat.

why would that be?
 
2008-03-26 02:28:23 PM  
Call_me_Madame: //gay Southern Baptist (born into both)

Being a Southerner is a choice.
 
2008-03-26 02:28:40 PM  
The tortured logic of this NRO piece is not just FAIL. But EPIC FAIL.

I think they got them all. Obama is not black enough to offend white people, so that means he's betrayed the black community; therefore, his eloquent speaking style is synonyms with American Fascism.

Beautiful piece of work.
 
2008-03-26 02:29:14 PM  
The Billdozer: You would be genuinely surprised how many people that live in this country hate what this country stands for. Go to an anti-war rally sometime, and look at the sponsors of the rallies and who they are connected to.

It's a clear sign that some people haven't been brainwashed into the typical "America good, others bad, white good, others bad" crap that the US tries to spread.
 
2008-03-26 02:29:27 PM  
"We have been told that we cannot do this by a chorus of cynics, that will only grow louder and more dissonant."
 
F42
2008-03-26 02:29:57 PM  
LibertyFirst: America has done some really terrible things to all sorts of people throughout the years.

You hate America and are a traitor if you think America is anything but the paragon of perfection.

Why do you hate America, you islamo-fascist-pinko-commie, you?
 
2008-03-26 02:30:04 PM  
I love how the author manages to, at the same time, use the conservative line about Obama being a black extremist, and the Liberal line of him not being black enough. Talk about tying himself into knots.
 
2008-03-26 02:30:25 PM  
burndtdan: LibertyFirst: This is the question nobody is asking:

Did Obama actually believe to be true what his pastor says and believes?

you're right.

no one has asked that question yet. not a single person. nope. not once.


It's not relevant. Why should it matter what Obama's pastor thinks or what he himself thinks? His politics are good for us, so we should vote for him.
 
2008-03-26 02:31:19 PM  
barjockey: If you close your eyes, block your ears, smoke a bunch of crack, drop acid, and beat your head against the sidewalk for 2 hours, Obama almost seems sincere! Almost.

/try it!


Barf.
 
2008-03-26 02:32:05 PM  
Nabb1: True, but generally people don't pick out a church and go there for two decades because they disagree with what's being preached. God, when is anyone going to admit maybe he made a mistake? He's just human, for crying out loud. Everyone has faults and Obama's no exception. Or, maybe he didn't make a mistake. Maybe he believes all that nonsense.

If the church was largely based on these controversial stances that would be true. But, as Obama has said, the church is not about that stuff. It's about inclusion, not about divisiveness. So these two or three taped sermons are not (or were not) the norm of that church. You can choose not to believe Obama on his word if you like, but I believe him when he says this. Obama has made it to where he is today by being an inclusive person, so why would he attend a church that was largely divisive, week after week? It doesn't make a lot of sense.
 
2008-03-26 02:32:21 PM  
This controversy is not going away. When you base your campaign on positive rhetoric, and then are closely connected with someone who spews hateful/negative rhetoric, you have a large problem that a speech can't fix. Obama doesn't look so hopeful based on the company he keeps.

/threadjack
Funny/interesting article
Link (new window)
/end threadjack
 
2008-03-26 02:32:27 PM  
Remove all Republicans: The Billdozer: You would be genuinely surprised how many people that live in this country hate what this country stands for. Go to an anti-war rally sometime, and look at the sponsors of the rallies and who they are connected to.

It's a clear sign that some people haven't been brainwashed into the typical "America good, others bad, white good, others bad" crap that the US tries to spread.


Yeah, I guess its much better that some of them think the "Free Tibet" movement is just a scheme to undermine the great socialist/Communist Utopian ideas that China is supposed to live under, right?
 
2008-03-26 02:32:41 PM  
funmonger: barjockey: If you close your eyes, block your ears, smoke a bunch of crack, drop acid, and beat your head against the sidewalk for 2 hours, Obama almost seems sincere! Almost.

/try it!

Barf.


So you tried it - I forgot to tell you that vomitting was an undesirable side effect...
 
2008-03-26 02:34:45 PM  
My point by point retort to TFA
In their version of events, Barack Obama just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time

I don't think any Obama supporters are saying this. No one is denying that Rev Wright was a mentor and close friend to Obama. I believe the general understand from Obama's supporters are that Obama should be judged on what he's said, not on what someone else has said.

These friends included "Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk rock performance poets" - in Obama's own words - as well as the "more politically active black students." He later visited a former member of the terrorist Weatherman Underground, who endorsed him when he ran for state senator.

I'll concede the point about the Weatherman Underground (afterall, thanks to those farkers I got rained on today and didn't have an umbrella). However to chastise ANYONE for their friends and associates in COLLEGE is shear lunacy. "There's a time and place for everything, and it's called college."

In Shelby Steele's brilliantly insightful book about Barack Obama - A Bound Man - it is painfully clear that Obama was one of those people seeking a racial identity that he had never really experienced in growing up in a white world. He was trying to become a convert to blackness, as it were - and, like many converts, he went overboard.

I believe Obama had some racial identity issues. How could he not considering his childhood? But to assume YOU know how he dealt with those issues is speculation, and to say Obama was trying to "become a convert to blackness" is borderline libelous.

The irony is that Obama's sudden rise politically to the level of being the leading contender for his party's presidential nomination has required him to project an entirely different persona, that of a post-racial leader who can heal divisiveness and bring us all together.

Maybe it's just me, but Obama's speech on race seemed to show he is indeed a post-racial leader and he spoke very eloquently about healing divisiveness to bring people together. So I would this identity that Sowell claims is a very genuine one. I don't think anyone BUT a post-racial leader could have given a speech like that.

There is no evidence that Obama ever sought to educate himself on the views of people on the other end of the political spectrum, much less reach out to them. He reached out from the Left to the Far Left. That's bringing us all together?


Puh-lease. A quick look at Obama's Wiki page (new window) blows this tripe out of the water. He's worked with McCain, Lugar, Coburn, and Bond.

One sign of Obama's verbal virtuosity was his equating a passing comment by his grandmother - "a typical white person," he says - with an organized campaign of public vilification of America in general and white America in particular, by Jeremiah Wright.

Why is so hard for the far-right to get this point? Obama was pointing out the inate flaws in all of us. His point was that even decent people, like Wright, or GREAT people, like his grandmother, have thoughts and feelings based on negative stereotypes. However having those flawes does not automatically make one a "racist."

There was a time when the Ku Klux Klan's words had a resonance among whites, not only in the South but in other states. Some people joined the KKK in order to advance their political careers. Did that make it OK? Is it all just a matter of whose ox is gored?

I hate this comparison of Wright's church to the KKK. They are MILES apart. While Rev Wright certainly made some stupid inflamatory comments, the goal of his church was to spiritally save people throught Christianity and to help the poor in his community. The KKK weren't trying to save or help anyone.

Why should young blacks be expected to work to meet educational standards, or even behavioral standards, if they believe the message that all their problems are caused by whites, that the deck is stacked against them? That is ultimately a message of hopelessness, however much audacity it may have.

Obviously someone didn't read or listen to Obama's speech. This post is already long enough, so I won't post the text. But Obama's message was that we must OVERCOME such thoughts by bettering ourselves and trying to work through our complex issues within and without our respective races.

Again, the far-right fail so misserably at understanding the message Obama has been trying to give about the Wright situation that it is OBVIOUS that they are purposely feigning ignorance for the sake of attention.
 
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