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(NBC4.com)   While waiting for SCOTUS' ruling on the D.C. gun ban, D.C. police while away the time by asking all law-abiding citizens to submit to voluntary searches for firearms. Resistance is futile, citizens   (nbc4.com) divider line 254
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8085 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Mar 2008 at 10:45 PM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-03-26 02:10:30 AM
Where to begin?

Maynard: We care about the environment, more than liberals sometimes. The difference is, we know the difference between pollution and climate change. Drink your Al Gore koolaid and go to bed.

SharkInfested: In almost every case, cities and towns with strict gun laws have higher crime. Cities and towns without the strict gun laws have lower crime. Click here and be educated. (new window)

Cops DO NOT have the right to do this. I, as a gun owner and a NRA member, care about all the Amendments, not just the odd ones, like most liberals.

I say tell the cops NO, then make them come up with a "probable cause".

You could tell them that they could search on one condition. Right after, we all go to the cops house and search it. Maybe it would make them think that sometimes, people just don't want other people looking through there shiat.
 
2008-03-26 02:15:52 AM
vegasj: cops searched my place once without me knowing it. I was out at the lake with my girl at the time, someone was screaming rape, neighbor called the cops and told them it sounded like it came form my condo.

So they called a locksmith and searched my place, left a card on my staircase letting me know with a cell number of the cop that responded.

I couldn't believe it, I called my brother, who works for LVMPD and asked if they could legally do this. "probable cause", a witness stated screams were coming from my place, there's probable cause to warrent a search...

tell them no, and I bet they find some kind of "probable cause" to search anyway.

/I'd still tell them no


Sounds more like they'll claim exigent circumstances.
 
2008-03-26 02:17:41 AM
Sabyen91: They came for the terrorists and I didn't say anything because I am not a terrorist. They came for the rest of the brown people and I didn't say anything because I am not brown. They came for the liberals but I didn't say anything because I am not a liberal. They came for my guns...oh, no they di'int. It would be nice of you guys cared about the 4th amendment before it pertained to you.

You are apparently not up on the modern pro-gun movement.

The "authoritarianism is good" contingent is not a clear majority. The leaders of the movement, like the activists who drove the Heller case and including many leaders in the NRA, tend to be (for example) anti-Patriot Act / Real ID / registration of anyone for anything for the very reason that the BOR stands or falls as a unified whole.

I only wish the ACLU on the national level (for example) had as good a record of respecting all the rights of men.

Don't let your prejudice blind you to reality. Gun rights supporters have been opposing tyranny in all its forms a lot longer than many of their critics.

Nice to see the rest of the rights crowd get on board.
 
2008-03-26 02:21:28 AM
meofcourse77: I say tell the cops NO, then make them come up with a "probable cause".

Do you really think you'd be allowed to say "no?"

If they're really going to everyone's door, they'd probably just lie and say that you consented or make up exigent circumstances. If they're targeting particular households, refusing the search might lead to a beatdown and prison for "resisting arrest."
 
2008-03-26 02:25:26 AM
Scutter: syrynxx:
I wonder if you could shoot one of the policemen searching your house in the head, then claim amnesty if you hand over the gun.

Let us know how that works out for you. We'll be the ones over here, not being tased and beaten to death by angry cops.


I lol'd.
 
2008-03-26 02:27:45 AM
Maybe the police could spend their time solving crimes instead of rooting through ordinary people's stuff...

The cops are probably hoping that they can get in to at least 5% of all homes or some low number like that. I'm sure that the information regarding how many people submit is of some use for "crisis management" (read: house-to-house prison style shakedowns like post-Katrina) and so even though they know they are going to fail they will go ahead with it anyway.

Plus, this D.C. Police Dept action helps reinforce the mistaken idea that it is a crime to simply own a gun among those foolish enough to believe that and among those wishing that to be true.
 
2008-03-26 02:27:57 AM
Only ex-convicts already know their rights; everyone else

...didn't get taught jack-shiat in school. Seriously.

/you should not be able to graduate with out a fundamental and WORKING knowledge of your rights as a citizen.
 
2008-03-26 02:51:41 AM
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Not satisfied with blatant disregard for the 2nd Amendment, they've decided to shiat all over 4th Amendment too. IF ONLY there was an original copy of the U.S. Constitution conveniently located in the Nation's Capitol, available for asshat viewing between 10:00 a.m. and 7:00 p.m.we could call it the National Archives (pops)

If they are deleting every other component of the Bill of Rights, then the 6th Amendment will be next on the chopping block:

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
 
2008-03-26 03:03:49 AM
If they are deleting every other component of the Bill of Rights, then the 6th Amendment will be next on the chopping block:

You think you still have it? In martial law, not so much, nor in Guantanamo, nor if you're designed a foreign terrorist, even if you're an american citizen.
 
2008-03-26 03:06:38 AM

How apropos, I just made this earlier this morning:

lh6.google.com
 
2008-03-26 04:01:17 AM
A police spokeswoman said that if evidence of other crimes is found during voluntary searches, amnesty will be granted for that crime as well.


"OK folks thanks for letting me search, holy crap that's a nice meth lab, and hey could you move these bales of coke so I can open the door? And that dead body.

OK no guns, we're all finished, thanks for your time, bye now."

Yeah..
 
2008-03-26 04:29:51 AM
@ jaderaven

I know what you're talking about. I had the luxury of having a fasha that was a piggy and a few friends as well. It's funny, my first girl friend ever is now a deputy and I told her I usta sell weed. It was the classic hand over the ears with the "la la la" going on. Yeah, she was/is hot.

/off topic?
 
2008-03-26 05:43:08 AM
2wolves: Which part of "voluntary" didn't you butt munchers comprehend?

FTA: Ron Hampton, of the Black Police Officers Association, said he doesn't expect many in the community to comply.

Using the word comply sounds more like an order, not a pretty please, may we come in, doesn't it???
 
2008-03-26 06:39:04 AM
The Grinch: ...if they try to force their way in, isn't that what your gun is for in the first place? To defend yourself against unwarranted (no pun intended) intrusions upon your person, home, or effects?

Ladies and gentlemen, the Internet Tough Guy...

2wolves: Outstanding misdemeanor warrant and you do that? Guess what? I own you, I own your department, I am now a majority stockholder in your state/jurisdiction.

...and his lawyer!

I have plenty of large-caliber, loaded guns and my wife is a lawyer, so I really got a kick out of those replies.

Bottom line: use force to resist the search, and they will kill you (and your family, and your cats). Sue after an "illegal" search, and the (sad, cruel, and costly) joke's on you.
 
2008-03-26 07:15:07 AM
img120.imageshack.us

You have the right to bare arms.

/sorry..every time I hear the bare arms thing, this is what pops into my sick mind.
 
2008-03-26 08:05:59 AM
Stratigus64: Why a second amendment? Because an armed populous is the only way to guarantee freedom. That's why.


Not quite true. You need weapons and the will to use them to be an effective check on government. One or the other is missing and you're screwed. In these days, we're more or less devoid of the "will to use them" as a group.
 
2008-03-26 08:19:49 AM
cache.viewimages.com

"FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS"
 
2008-03-26 08:35:21 AM
Wow. Someone was predicting this the other day in a thread about a similar program in Boston. Don't know who it was, but I'd like them to suggest some winning lottery numbers for me.
 
2008-03-26 08:39:28 AM
"Chief Lanier has been clear," Traci Hughes said. "Amnesty means amnesty."

If the consequences of having little girls run the Police Dep't. are not clear yet: amnesty is not within their authority.
It doesn't matter what they say.
The prosecutor has the only say on this - and they have said nothing.

Re: "mistaken idea that it is a crime to simply own a gun"
In DC: private ownership of handguns is completely forbidden - except to Nancy Reagan (no, I'm not kidding).
 
2008-03-26 08:41:03 AM
Sabyen91: It would be nice of you guys cared about the 4th amendment before it pertained to you.

Fark off. As a gun nut who has been in a shouting match with police over an attempted illegal search (yes, I won the match), and has asserted my rights to privacy on a number of traffic stops, I can tell you for fact that there are some of us who care about ALL our rights.

And yes, I call/write my representatives. Do you?
 
2008-03-26 08:45:39 AM
paygun: I don't think they exist, not any more than the militant gays who want to convert our children to the evil ways of the buttsex.

Uh, I actually knew one of those... but I agree that I've never met a gun nut that wasn't at least somewhat interested in the rest of our rights. I've met gun OWNERS that didn't know the 5th amendment from a 5th of Jack... plenty of them, but not any gun nuts that weren't aware.
 
2008-03-26 08:51:29 AM
Why can't we be more like Switzerland?
 
2008-03-26 08:54:55 AM
Burninate: actually submitter it would appear that resistance is anything but futile

The Borg disagrees with you.
 
2008-03-26 09:07:14 AM
meofcourse77: Maynard: We care about the environment, more than liberals sometimes. The difference is, we know the difference between pollution and climate change.

Somehow, I think your relationship between "pollution" and "climate change" is not completely unlike the relationship between "evolution" and "intelligent design."

Drink your Al Gore koolaid and go to bed.

And may I suggest YOU drink your NeoCon Binaryberry Capri Sun. Vice President Gore's heart may be in the right place, but he in no way represents my interests.
 
2008-03-26 09:10:57 AM
Animatronik: Maynard: [insert Animatronik's reasonable, balanced, thoughtful points]

Take that bullshiat and get the F out of here. This is Fark, dagnabit!
 
2008-03-26 09:17:12 AM
OK, listen up. The cops can do whatever they want, you can't stop them. The can AND DO lie in court, lie to judges that issue ANY warrant they want (judges are shielded from lawsuits) and invent or plant "evidence" when it suits them to do so. One cop will lie and six more will swear to the lie. You don't have a chance against them. If you are stupid enough to invite them in you deserve whatever they do to you. If you don't invite them in make sure you have a HIDDEN video camera to record their next actions. The chances are.....If they knock on your door they are coming in no matter what you say or do. Remember, video and audio recordings are your friends, cops aren't.
 
2008-03-26 09:33:50 AM
Do they really think people are going to just go along with this shiat? I would think that as a decent parent, grandparent, guardian, whatever, if you know your kid has a gun, you take care of that yourself. Without asshat D.C. police involvement. Oh, wait...this IS D.C we're talking about...
 
2008-03-26 09:38:44 AM
gcc: short story:
I once got stopped at one of those stop-everybody-and-see-who's-drunk 'driver's license checkpoints'. They stopped me and asked for my driver's license, which I handed to them, then asked if they could search my car. I told them that unless they had a warrant, the answer was no. I was then told that such behavior was 'suspicious enough to get a warrant' and that I was 'wasting everybody's time'. To which I replied that last time I checked, refusing an illegal search was not grounds for a legal one.
Six hours later, probably after calling every judge they could get in touch with, and walking drug dogs around the car twice, I was on my way. But what if I hadn't had six hours to spare to protect my rights? How many people would just cave in, thinking that the wait was a worse punishment than they would get for anything the police found?
It makes me worry.


And your lucky they didn't plant anything. You should have sued.
 
2008-03-26 09:39:26 AM
great, now I can't put the word 'you're' together right anymore....I blame Bush!
 
2008-03-26 09:40:25 AM
Maybe I'm just daft this morning... but I can't figure out this whole "voluntary search" thing.

Why would they have to search? If I own guns, and decide I no longer want them, wouldn't I just hand them over? Or better yet, I'd be selling them (those farkers cost me a few hundred dollars Mr pig). Either way, I know where they are, I don't have to search. Or are you not supposed to tell them? It's like a big hide'n'seek game?

Are they trying to convince people that guns are spontaneously appearing in our homes, without our knowledge, and that we need professional police help to find them? What morons would actually fall for this?
 
2008-03-26 09:58:45 AM
Here is my question scenario:

-Lets say someone dressed in what looks like a Police Officer uniform knocks on your door and asks to search your home.

-You ask to see a warrant with your name and address and a description of what items they are looking for.

-They say that they do not have a warrant but would like to enter with your permission.

-You decline.

-Then the supposed Police Officer attempts to enter your home.

-You run and get your firearm to protect you, your family, and your home.

-You shoot and kill the supposed Police Officer.

-It turns out the Police Officer was real and doing voluntary searches for firearms.


What do you think will happen to you?

You're probably either dead within 24 hours, or in jail for life.
 
2008-03-26 10:16:02 AM
matthew8762: Sabyen91: They came for the terrorists and I didn't say anything because I am not a terrorist. They came for the rest of the brown people and I didn't say anything because I am not brown. They came for the liberals but I didn't say anything because I am not a liberal. They came for my guns...oh, no they di'int. It would be nice of you guys cared about the 4th amendment before it pertained to you.

You are apparently not up on the modern pro-gun movement.

The "authoritarianism is good" contingent is not a clear majority. The leaders of the movement, like the activists who drove the Heller case and including many leaders in the NRA, tend to be (for example) anti-Patriot Act / Real ID / registration of anyone for anything for the very reason that the BOR stands or falls as a unified whole.

I only wish the ACLU on the national level (for example) had as good a record of respecting all the rights of men.

Don't let your prejudice blind you to reality. Gun rights supporters have been opposing tyranny in all its forms a lot longer than many of their critics.

Nice to see the rest of the rights crowd get on board.


agree.
 
2008-03-26 10:47:56 AM
RockyMtnMan: Here is my question scenario:

-Lets say someone dressed in what looks like a Police Officer uniform knocks on your door and asks to search your home.

-You ask to see a warrant with your name and address and a description of what items they are looking for.

-They say that they do not have a warrant but would like to enter with your permission.

-You decline.

-Then the supposed Police Officer attempts to enter your home.

-You run and get your firearm to protect you, your family, and your home.

-You shoot and kill the supposed Police Officer.

-It turns out the Police Officer was real and doing voluntary searches for firearms.


What do you think will happen to you?

You're probably either dead within 24 hours, or in jail for life.


Almost this exact scenario has played out before, wish I could remember the case. The shooter (who only wounded the police officer in that case) was acquitted via self-defense. A killing, however, might be a tougher sell.
 
2008-03-26 11:07:07 AM
I Said: Eh, they are within their rights to ask as the citizen is within his/her right to deny entry, no?

In theory, yes.

In practice, if cops want to search your home, they're going to find a justification/excuse. They can always find one.

And, if they find a gun, you'll be sitting in jail.

Sure, you may win a judgment against them after years in jail. That'll make it all worth it.

Voluntary searches of your home by police are NEVER voluntary.
 
2008-03-26 11:25:31 AM
I see you all havent brought up this gem... FTFA: Police Chief Cathy L. Lanier said the "safe homes initiative" is aimed at residents who want to cooperate with police. She gave the example of parents or grandparents who know or suspect their children have guns in the home.

Really great society we have here when parents fear their children in their own home. I feel as if this line was total made up BS. If you suspect your child has a gun, you lock them in a separate room after strip searching them and tear there room piece by piece, you see, you don't have 4th amendment rights when you live in your parents' house. Am i right?
 
2008-03-26 11:27:23 AM
can't spell 'their' either I see...
 
2008-03-26 12:08:49 PM
lajimi

OK, we get it. You don't like cops. Can we move on now?
 
2008-03-26 12:29:49 PM
dj_bigbird: Because it's not necessarily "voluntary" when cops show up at your door and ask to go rummaging thru your stuff.

Except for the part where unless they have probable cause and a warrant, you can refuse to let them in.

No "quotes" needed. This is voluntary.
 
2008-03-26 12:36:43 PM
Why is it that the police are always at odds with your basic human rights??? Just whose side are the police on, anyways?

/Hint: it isn't you, sucka.
//Answer: their own side.
 
2008-03-26 12:37:52 PM
Maj. Kong: lajimi

OK, we get it. You don't like cops. Can we move on now?


You're free to skip past my posts as often as you like. Move on, citizen, nothing to see here.

/Badge kisser
 
2008-03-26 01:17:02 PM
And they was using up all kinds of cop equipment that they had hanging around the police officer's station.
They was taking plaster tire tracks, foot prints, dog smelling prints, and they took twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be used as evidence against us.

Took pictures of the approach, the getaway, the northwest corner the southwest corner and that's not to mention the aerial photography.
 
2008-03-26 01:22:12 PM
Space_Poet: If you suspect your child has a gun, you lock them in a separate room after strip searching them and tear there room piece by piece, you see, you don't have 4th amendment rights when you live in your parents' house. Am i right?

Yes. Only the homeowner really has those rights.
And even then, the rights apply to government or law enforcement attempting searches, not private citizens. There is no amendment to prevent a private citizen from searching his property that he has rented to you.
 
2008-03-26 01:27:29 PM
quizzical: gcc: Six hours later, probably after calling every judge they could get in touch with, and walking drug dogs around the car twice, I was on my way. But what if I hadn't had six hours to spare to protect my rights? How many people would just cave in, thinking that the wait was a worse punishment than they would get for anything the police found?
It makes me worry.

I'm in law school right now, and taking criminal procedure this term. I have four police officers - one retired, two current, and part-time volunteer - in my class. Sadly, they would have all been cheering for the cops in your story. For the first five weeks, EVERY SINGLE CASE was a digression into "But I've done [insert violation of the 4th amendment here] before, and it turned out the suspect had [insert weapon or drug of choice]! He broke the law and shouldn't we have put him in jail for that?" My professor finally flat out told them this wasn't a police training course, but a law school where they would learn to CORRECTLY apply the law.


Cops who don't know the law and think the ends justify the means? I'm shocked. SHOCKED.
 
2008-03-26 02:23:19 PM
Malcom Tent:
Cops who don't know the law and think the ends justify the means? I'm shocked. SHOCKED.

You can has don't taze me bro?
 
2008-03-26 03:21:00 PM
The LooseCannon: You're right. I could see a very reasonable challenge to this on Fourth Amendment rights, ensure that the officers have a script to read, similar to the Miranda Warning.

Or maybe a FARKING WARRANT like they're SUPPOSED TO! Unless the script says something like "Here are your rights under the US Constitution: [blah]. Do you wish to waive them so that I may illegally search your house? You are free to deny the search and no further effort will be made to harass you if you refuse." And they'd better be telling the gospel truth with that last part. Even then, they're not even supposed to be out there attempting things like this.

Sabyen91: This won't be the last time. No knock warrants are ridiculous (and unamerican) and only puts law enforcement officers in danger.

I agree that no-knocks are Unamerican, but I think it's been shown (anecdotally?) that they endanger the hell out of everyone involved, not just officers. People get can and do get shot by cops for simply moving during what is, to them, an armed home invasion in the middle of the night. Any and all danger to an officer involved in conducting an illegal search like that is deserved. They shouldn't be there doing what they're doing to begin with, and at that point they're little more than a criminal backed by a corrupt government.

bonefish: Taxation without representation, trying to ban guns. I would say that it seems DC residents aren't treated like US citizens at times.

To be fair, neither is anyone else these days.
 
2008-03-26 03:45:32 PM
If a cop came to my door and asked to search my home I would say that maybe I would if I could ransack through and search his home first.
 
2008-03-26 07:02:56 PM
Sabyen91: I am talking about those who think the 2nd amendment is a license to own Abrahms tanks and stinger missles.

Umm, you can legally own tanks in the US. There is a dealer down the road from me with 2 for sale, plus a half dozen armored cars and APCs

I have to pay an extra $200 fee to the BATF for owning a destructive device (The tank cannon), but if I can afford the price, he will sell them to me.
 
2008-03-26 07:49:37 PM
ReverendJasen: There is no amendment to prevent a private citizen from searching his property that he has rented to you.

There is no amendment, but there are laws out the ying-yang that deal with when and how a landlord can enter a tenants apartment space, even if its just a room.
 
2008-03-26 07:51:22 PM
Wasserspeier: If a cop came to my door and asked to search my home I would say that maybe I would if I could ransack through and search his home first.

I would just say "No, but thank you for asking. Have a good day." Then its back to whatever I was doing with entertaining a whole lot of "but but I asked you" conversation.
 
2008-03-26 09:29:26 PM
As soon as you let them in, there is nothing stopping them from going through everything you own to see what they might find.

Even IF it stuff meant to be in "plain site" all they have to say is that the drawer was open and we saw a "white bag"
 
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