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(NBC4.com)   While waiting for SCOTUS' ruling on the D.C. gun ban, D.C. police while away the time by asking all law-abiding citizens to submit to voluntary searches for firearms. Resistance is futile, citizens   (nbc4.com) divider line 253
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8085 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Mar 2008 at 10:45 PM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-03-26 12:09:15 AM
quizzical: My professor finally flat out told them this wasn't a police training course, but a law school where they would learn to CORRECTLY apply the law.

Oh snap!
 
2008-03-26 12:09:22 AM
Christian Republican Gun Slinger: I'm gonna go hang my head in shame.

home.swipnet.se
(new window)
 
2008-03-26 12:09:55 AM
Well, now, I thought that gun nuts was narrow enough. I didn't say gun owners. I am talking about those who think the 2nd amendment is a license to own Abrahms tanks and stinger missles. The ones that don't believe in registration. The ones that think every Tom, Dick and Harry should have a gun, whether they are suicidal bi-polar or not. In other words the Wayne LaPierre crazies. And I don't know if these guys care about any other Amendment because they never talk about anything but guns.
 
2008-03-26 12:10:32 AM
Animatronik: And it's no coincidence that the justice department supported the city's position, at least in part. They're not very interested in your rights under the constitution either.

Well they are the justice department. From what I've seen the modern definition of justice is government control. And they certainly believe in justice for all.
 
2008-03-26 12:13:19 AM
tekmo: quizzical: My professor finally flat out told them this wasn't a police training course, but a law school where they would learn to CORRECTLY apply the law.

Oh snap!


I almost cheered.

/If you have a choice, never let the police in your home without a warrant. The plain view is exception is a harsh mistress.
 
2008-03-26 12:13:39 AM
Sabyen91: Well, now, I thought that gun nuts was narrow enough.

I see your point, but calling people gun nuts sounds to me an awful lot like when people say, "well you see there's black people and then there's naggers, I don't hate black people"
 
2008-03-26 12:14:45 AM
This is OBVIOUSLY bush's fault
 
2008-03-26 12:16:04 AM
paygun: Sabyen91: Well, now, I thought that gun nuts was narrow enough.

I see your point, but calling people gun nuts sounds to me an awful lot like when people say, "well you see there's black people and then there's naggers, I don't hate black people"


So, what do I call gun extremists? Gun extremist is just way too long to type more than a few times on Fark.
 
2008-03-26 12:16:48 AM
xen0blue: This is OBVIOUSLY bush's fault

Non-sequiter alert.
 
2008-03-26 12:17:00 AM
paygun Quote 2008-03-26 12:10:32 AM


Animatronik: And it's no coincidence that the justice department supported the city's position, at least in part. They're not very interested in your rights under the constitution either.

Well they are the justice department. From what I've seen the modern definition of justice is government control. And they certainly believe in justice for all.


You might be right. And what else, besides earmarks, can unify opposite ends of the political spectrum?

But you know what's funny about this story?? The offer of amnesty. If I've got contraband in my house, why would I voluntarily let you search it ??. There is coercion and violation of rights implied here. Anyone but D.C.'s finest would realize how dumb that sounds.
 
2008-03-26 12:19:57 AM
SharkInfested

Why should I as a tax paying American citizen not have the same rights as everyone else?

You're the sacrificial lamb that ensures that the rest of us aren't being bullied around by Maryland.

(Even sacrificial lambs have to admit that's a noble purpose.)
 
2008-03-26 12:20:42 AM
Sabyen91: So, what do I call gun extremists? Gun extremist is just way too long to type more than a few times on Fark.

How about dumb ass? Surely these people aren't stupid only when it comes to guns. But honestly, I don't know. I've never met a 2nd amendment only kinda person. I don't think they exist, not any more than the militant gays who want to convert our children to the evil ways of the buttsex.
 
2008-03-26 12:21:47 AM
tekmo
If I was a judge, and somebody tried to argue, as above, that the Second Amendment didn't apply to DC because it wasn't a state, I'd inquire why they thought the US Constitution didn't apply to US citizens?

Taxation without representation, trying to ban guns. I would say that it seems DC residents aren't treated like US citizens at times.
 
2008-03-26 12:22:02 AM
Animatronik: Anyone but D.C.'s finest would realize how dumb that sounds.

They're not dumb, they know exactly what they're doing. They're doing everything they can to seize firearms from the people before their rights are restored.
 
2008-03-26 12:23:01 AM
Christian Republican Gun Slinger: jaderaven: Christian Republican Gun Slinger: jaderaven: control argument where some guy suggests shooting the cop after they try to enter your house unwarranted... maybe they should just take the guns away from stupid people.

I think you should be able to shoot anyone that enters your home with out permission.

Your talking to the guy who owns a small armory of assault weapons shoots every weekend, goes to church and votes obama....all im saying is

shooting a cop = not smart

in this situation your going to court and even if you were within your rights its going to be hard to prove. Cops will lie.

Yeah. I grew up having a dad that was a deputy, he's retired now but still has reserve status. It's interesting to hear his point of view on gun ownership. I was talking with him last week and he said he'd not let anyone take his guns. I asked if that meant cops as well, he said yes.

I have respect for law enforcement peeps if they have respect for my rights. I don't give them shiat when I'm pulled over, and I expect the same. Sometimes, you're not so lucky.


I'm also only 18 years old and literally just the other day I went to an army surplus store to buy bulk ammo, I asked the guy at the counter if he dealt in large amounts ammo "like in quantity's of 1 or 2k. This got me questioned by the cop who was shooting the breeze with another fellow behind the counter. Nothing serious of course, but I felt like he was about to draw a gun on me at any minute. Cops just give me weird feelings in situations like that even if I am doing nothing wrong. Their mind games really seem to make it unfair to normal people unaware of their rights. On the other hand who can blame them with all the teenagers running around shooting up schools these days.

/get the fark off my lawn.
 
2008-03-26 12:26:31 AM
Man On Pink Corner: SharkInfested it scares the willies out of me to think about how this could escalate the level of violence here, which has decreased significantly in the last 10-15 years

Why in the world would you expect that to happen? Guns owned by law-abiding citizens are not the ones that are being used by criminals in DC... or anywhere else.


I understand that I will probably be flamed for this, and I'm fine with that, and I wish I had facts and figures to back my feeling up, but it is an instinctive, visceral reaction. This is a contained area with an enormous divide between the rich and poor, where the people who run our country work and live, and where people who are desperately poor live within sight of the most rich and powerful. I'm sorry, I know you want facts, I have feelings. But I'm the one living here, and taking the bus everyday, and feeling the fragile balance. The more people running around with guns than already are just seems not good.

And amusingly, that is the same argument that I use for drug legalisation - any one who already wants it, has it. Odd how the that two of the most polarizing Liberal/Conservative issues have the same argument
 
2008-03-26 12:29:02 AM
I see... So THIS is how we get conservatives to care about civil liberties.

How do we get them to care about environmental policy? Threaten to take away the natural resources go into making NASCAR jackets and Ronald Reagan biographies?
 
2008-03-26 12:29:38 AM
SharkInfested: I understand that I will probably be flamed for this, and I'm fine with that, and I wish I had facts and figures to back my feeling up, but it is an instinctive, visceral reaction. This is a contained area with an enormous divide between the rich and poor, where the people who run our country work and live, and where people who are desperately poor live within sight of the most rich and powerful. I'm sorry, I know you want facts, I have feelings. But I'm the one living here, and taking the bus everyday, and feeling the fragile balance. The more people running around with guns than already are just seems not good.

I'm a "gun nut" and I agree 100%. The problem is gun control isn't going to fix any of that. It's a piss poor attempt at fixing a symptom rather than the problem. On the other hand I don't have any solution. My solution is to get the fark out of any decent sized city because it's only going to get worse before it gets better.
 
2008-03-26 12:30:10 AM
aerojockey: SharkInfested

Why should I as a tax paying American citizen not have the same rights as everyone else?

You're the sacrificial lamb that ensures that the rest of us aren't being bullied around by Maryland.

(Even sacrificial lambs have to admit that's a noble purpose.)


I ain't sacrificing shiat for Bowie
 
2008-03-26 12:30:33 AM
Maynard G. Muskievote: I see... So THIS is how we get conservatives to care about civil liberties.

How do we get them to care about environmental policy? Threaten to take away the natural resources go into making NASCAR jackets and Ronald Reagan biographies?


I think you've answered your question. The first step towards persuading anyone is to insult them.
 
2008-03-26 12:34:11 AM
cops searched my place once without me knowing it. I was out at the lake with my girl at the time, someone was screaming rape, neighbor called the cops and told them it sounded like it came form my condo.

So they called a locksmith and searched my place, left a card on my staircase letting me know with a cell number of the cop that responded.

I couldn't believe it, I called my brother, who works for LVMPD and asked if they could legally do this. "probable cause", a witness stated screams were coming from my place, there's probable cause to warrent a search...

tell them no, and I bet they find some kind of "probable cause" to search anyway.

/I'd still tell them no
 
2008-03-26 12:41:57 AM
Maynard G. Muskievote Quote 2008-03-26 12:29:02 AM


I see... So THIS is how we get conservatives to care about civil liberties.

How do we get them to care about environmental policy? Threaten to take away the natural resources go into making NASCAR jackets and Ronald Reagan biographies?


I think both parties have sizeable contingents that don't care about civil liberties, for different reasons. No true conservative supports unrestricted wiretapping and investigation of private citizens.

Likewise, no true liberal would support the massive expansion of illegal property seizures (sans any arrest or conviction) by drug and vice enforcement during the Clinton administration (a program inititated in the Reagan administration).
 
2008-03-26 12:44:04 AM
Animatronik: I think both parties have sizeable contingents that don't care about civil liberties, for different reasons. No true conservative supports unrestricted wiretapping and investigation of private citizens.

Likewise, no true liberal would support the massive expansion of illegal property seizures (sans any arrest or conviction) by drug and vice enforcement during the Clinton administration (a program inititated in the Reagan administration).


It's pretty sad that both parties won't admit that all of those things are just plain un-American.
 
2008-03-26 12:45:14 AM
paygun: On the other hand I don't have any solution.

I've been studying criminal justice for 8 years now.

I don't have a good solution either, other than putting males into suspended animation from the age of 13 to 30. That would cut violant crime down by probably.... 80%.

In fact... maybe that's what Jesus did....
 
2008-03-26 12:45:57 AM
paygun: It's pretty sad that both parties won't admit that all of those things are just plain un-American.

WHy can't we have a "I like the constitution" party?
 
2008-03-26 12:47:27 AM
paygun: SharkInfested: I understand that I will probably be flamed for this, and I'm fine with that, and I wish I had facts and figures to back my feeling up, but it is an instinctive, visceral reaction. This is a contained area with an enormous divide between the rich and poor, where the people who run our country work and live, and where people who are desperately poor live within sight of the most rich and powerful. I'm sorry, I know you want facts, I have feelings. But I'm the one living here, and taking the bus everyday, and feeling the fragile balance. The more people running around with guns than already are just seems not good.

I'm a "gun nut" and I agree 100%. The problem is gun control isn't going to fix any of that. It's a piss poor attempt at fixing a symptom rather than the problem. On the other hand I don't have any solution. My solution is to get the fark out of any decent sized city because it's only going to get worse before it gets better.


BINGO! refer to my earlier comment re poverty and racism. The problem is not the guns, it's the problems that people are attempting to use the guns to fix. It is particularly egregious here because this is where solutions are supposed to be made, and yet it is like a petri dish for the extremes that exist in our country
 
2008-03-26 12:49:21 AM
Maynard G. Muskievote

How do we get them to care about environmental policy?


Oh, that's easy! Just help them recognize how 'environmental reform' is yet another contemporary tool to bring forth more taxes and shed citizens of more rights. Yank down the curtain and expose the Wizard of Oz for who he is - a power-hungry lying politician who manipulates the mentally inept.
 
2008-03-26 12:53:36 AM
Nobodyn0se: paygun: It's pretty sad that both parties won't admit that all of those things are just plain un-American.

WHy can't we have a "I like the constitution" party?


There is a constitution party, but iirc they're theocracy types.
 
2008-03-26 12:58:33 AM
Officers will go door to door asking residents for permission to search their homes

*ahem*

kiss my shiny metal ass. - bender
 
2008-03-26 01:07:00 AM
I'm so glad that they've cleaned up DC to the point where they are able to do random searches w/the extra manpower.

It's such a beautiful & safe city. The neighborhoods are so beautiful to walk through at night and see the historic sites.

/I wish I could make my resume look that good....
 
2008-03-26 01:16:19 AM
Christian Republican Gun Slinger: I think you should be able to shoot anyone that enters your home with out permission.

I imagine you would find this a good test of the amnesty offer when the second wave of cops shows up.
 
2008-03-26 01:16:36 AM
jaderaven:
I'm also only 18 years old and literally just the other day I went to an army surplus store to buy bulk ammo, I asked the guy at the counter if he dealt in large amounts ammo "like in quantity's of 1 or 2k. This got me questioned by the cop who was shooting the breeze with another fellow behind the counter.


"I dunno, you ever go to a gun range?"

CBob: I'm so glad that they've cleaned up DC to the point where they are able to do random searches w/the extra manpower.

It's such a beautiful & safe city. The neighborhoods are so beautiful to walk through at night and see the historic sites.

/I wish I could make my resume look that good....


Some parts of southeast are pretty nice... during the day.
 
2008-03-26 01:17:45 AM
2wolves: Which part of "voluntary" didn't you butt munchers comprehend?

The part where the pigs define voluntary, how about you?
 
2008-03-26 01:19:06 AM
CBob: I'm so glad that they've cleaned up DC to the point where they are able to do random searches w/the extra manpower.

It's such a beautiful & safe city. The neighborhoods are so beautiful to walk through at night and see the historic sites.

/I wish I could make my resume look that good....


hey douche - do you have any idea that the majority of DC is multimillion dollar homes that you can't afford? My zip code is 20016 - look it up. Sick of the stupid DC meme
 
2008-03-26 01:19:13 AM
If this is "voluntary," can a bunch of armed hooligans go door to door and ask people to surrender their valuables if they promise nobody will get hurt for complying? After all, they're just offering "amnesty" for violence which may or may not happen, right?

Nope. No coercion there..
 
762
2008-03-26 01:20:40 AM
rancid weasel:
If you're referring to the NRA/ACLU thing, perhaps you should answer this: the NRA and ACLU have a working relationship wrt which rights eachdefends - there is arguably considerable expertise on specific areas in each org. Why should the NRA go horn in on something outside its charter that's already covered by the ACLU? Why should the ACLU do the same?


FAIL. ACLU endorses the "collective rights" view of the 2nd Amendment. Which basically means they take a pass.

There is no way in hell the NRA goes along with that.
 
762
2008-03-26 01:23:00 AM
I am thinking DC is feeling less than sanguine about their law being upheld in June in order to be pulling this now.
 
2008-03-26 01:28:39 AM
bonefish: Taxation without representation, trying to ban guns. I would say that it seems DC residents aren't treated like US citizens at times.

Dood, I'm from Kansas City, where a federal judge DOUBLED the property tax to fund a desegregation program, which ultimately further segregated the schools. We also had a city council member who seriously proposed vehicle checkpoints for weapons. The city hasn't had control of its police department since prohibition, and is probably going to lose control of its schools too.

Barbeque's pretty good, though. We're polite enough.

I'll agree that DC has no shortage of idiots in charge - but you've hardly cornered the market.
 
2008-03-26 01:30:49 AM
"Officers will go door to door asking residents for permission to search their homes."

I normally support police...but coming to my door to ask that would have me in a fury.
 
2008-03-26 01:35:37 AM
The real problem is when you say no, but your neighbors say yes, and you become a suspect by default.

Police did this in the 'DNA Dragnets', where they ask, voluntarily, for DNA swabs to catch rapists. Of course, anyone who refuses to give a sample becomes a suspect.
 
2008-03-26 01:35:41 AM
i236.photobucket.com

i236.photobucket.com
 
2008-03-26 01:40:10 AM
otoh, PC (probable cause) is a slippery concept. I mind me of the time my then roommate (sex worker, fag, meth head, part-time dealer) and me (psycho, meth head, part-time drug courier), called the cops INTO OUR APARTMENT when my roommate's bike was stolen. There we were, both strung out, it had to be past midnight, with pupils like tunnels into Hell, my roommate with tracks up both arms, and two deputies in the living room.

They never did ask to search the place; just as well, there was drugs and paraphernalia all over the place. They probably figured they'd get us sooner or later. I moved out and entered rehab not too long after. Sometimes you just know when your number's about to be up.
 
2008-03-26 01:47:51 AM
Police don't like to be told no. I know from experience. Glad I had something to take video with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msFEj-UBU9Q
 
2008-03-26 01:51:09 AM
el que nada debe nada teme
 
2008-03-26 01:58:50 AM
emohess: The real problem is when you say no, but your neighbors say yes, and you become a suspect by default.

Police did this in the 'DNA Dragnets', where they ask, voluntarily, for DNA swabs to catch rapists. Of course, anyone who refuses to give a sample becomes a suspect.


NEWSFLASH, if you aren't wearing a cop costume you are already a suspect. You have to decide if you wish to volunteer to be treated as one by your employees (yes, the cops work for US) or to use what few rights you have left to take control and refuse.
 
2008-03-26 02:01:02 AM
Link (new window)
 
2008-03-26 02:03:18 AM
Whoops. Disregard that.

BTW, Splixx, you're video link doesn't work.

/Don't preview before...
 
2008-03-26 02:04:13 AM
12inpianist: you're


fark.
 
2008-03-26 02:09:22 AM
If weapons are recovered, they will be tested and destroyed if they are not found to be linked to any other crimes.

So if they find one, your automatically charged with a crime it seems.

Oh joy.

/never answer a door for the police if they don't have a warrant, ESPECIALLY if you DIDN'T call them. At that point "they are not your friends."
//laywer presenter told that one during a State training.
 
2008-03-26 02:10:30 AM
Where to begin?

Maynard: We care about the environment, more than liberals sometimes. The difference is, we know the difference between pollution and climate change. Drink your Al Gore koolaid and go to bed.

SharkInfested: In almost every case, cities and towns with strict gun laws have higher crime. Cities and towns without the strict gun laws have lower crime. Click here and be educated. (new window)

Cops DO NOT have the right to do this. I, as a gun owner and a NRA member, care about all the Amendments, not just the odd ones, like most liberals.

I say tell the cops NO, then make them come up with a "probable cause".

You could tell them that they could search on one condition. Right after, we all go to the cops house and search it. Maybe it would make them think that sometimes, people just don't want other people looking through there shiat.
 
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