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(Wall Street Journal)   The pay gap between men and women is either due to women's poor negotiating skills, or rampant, systemic discrimination. Who knows?   (online.wsj.com) divider line 227
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5114 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Mar 2008 at 12:12 PM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-03-24 11:59:49 AM
The pay gap is a myth. The 75 cent per dollar number only works if you factor in pay over a life time. Not job to job comparison. Of course men make more money over a life time manual labor jobs pay well from the very beginning and can be done very early in a males life time.

This should be a good thread
 
2008-03-24 12:00:06 PM
Or hours worked, but whatever.
 
2008-03-24 12:00:16 PM
My wife makes more than me... what gap?
 
2008-03-24 12:03:09 PM
Also it fails to account women who are hired\promoted based off diversity, where a guy who would have gotten that position may have been more qualified\experienced and commanded a higher sallary.

Also they tend not to count materninity leave against women when they calculate the time they have been in the workforce.
 
2008-03-24 12:04:31 PM
I predict a lot of good discussion with credibly sourced material.
 
2008-03-24 12:04:31 PM
img515.imageshack.us
 
2008-03-24 12:06:22 PM
OlafTheBent: My wife makes more than me... what gap?

That just makes you the woman.


/i kid i kid
 
2008-03-24 12:11:51 PM
The Stealth Hippopotamus: The pay gap is a myth. The 75 cent per dollar number only works if you factor in pay over a life time. Not job to job comparison. Of course men make more money over a life time manual labor jobs pay well from the very beginning and can be done very early in a males life time.

This should be a good thread


This is a study of 1st year college grads. I suspect they still have a lot of uncontrolled variables, though.
 
2008-03-24 12:14:21 PM
i31.photobucket.com
 
2008-03-24 12:14:34 PM
Can't we just blame it on both?
 
2008-03-24 12:14:38 PM
Considering my dad's constant frustration with my mom for being too much of a...well, a woman, to request a pay raise at her job leads me to believe that the former suggestion is very likely a major reason.
 
2008-03-24 12:15:21 PM
I initially read the headline as "The Pap Gap".

Ew.
 
2008-03-24 12:15:45 PM
Pay gap? Elliot Spitzer would beg to differ. $4,500/hr is pretty damn good.
 
2008-03-24 12:16:16 PM
the voices in your head: I initially read the headline as "The Pap Gap".

Ew.


I read it as "Gay Pap."
 
2008-03-24 12:16:39 PM
This is SURE to be good
i38.photobucket.com
 
2008-03-24 12:17:16 PM
I'll put $20 on poor negotiating skills, Larry.

My GF recently got a bump up to a mid-level sales management job in the pharma biz, and they were only going to give her a 10% bump in base comp. I had to twist her arm to get her to negotiate a better deal with them. So, now she got 15%, an extra week of vacation and some restricted stock.

/still make more than too :)
 
2008-03-24 12:17:19 PM
I just this morning got a promotion and a 4% raise, so I'm really going to be getting a kick out of these replies.

/man
 
2008-03-24 12:17:32 PM
I never shop at the Gap. I prefer Old Navy.
 
2008-03-24 12:17:33 PM
"2008-03-24 11:59:49 AM
The pay gap is a myth. The 75 cent per dollar number only works if you factor in pay over a life time."

FTA:


After one year of full-time employment, women earn 20% less than their male colleagues, according to a study conducted by the American Association of University Women (AAUW) a Washington-based nonprofit.
 
2008-03-24 12:17:33 PM
I don't really think it's that huge of a gap as it was anymore, but I'm sure both of those reasons come into play. At least in both my jobs, I know that I get paid the same amount as everyone else on my level.
 
2008-03-24 12:17:55 PM
You care for some cheese with your whine?
 
2008-03-24 12:18:20 PM
I'm sure when you factor in alimony payments, women make more than men.

Plus, when you have a vagina, you can easily save $100 a week in bar tabs.
 
2008-03-24 12:18:23 PM
pay gap haiku-erick

there once was a girl
from nantucket who felt she
should earn... oh fark it!


/haiku-ericks are too hard!
 
2008-03-24 12:18:33 PM
meljordan: the voices in your head: I initially read the headline as "The Pap Gap".

Ew.

I read it as "Gay Pap."


I read it as "Fap Gap"
/which would really explain a lot
 
2008-03-24 12:18:49 PM
The Stealth Hippopotamus: The pay gap is a myth. The 75 cent per dollar number only works if you factor in pay over a life time. Not job to job comparison. Of course men make more money over a life time manual labor jobs pay well from the very beginning and can be done very early in a males life time.

This should be a good thread


/Hope this is a troll.
//The "standard" 75 cent per dollar number was based on the yearly earnings of full-time, year-round men and women employees across all occupations.
/// Warren Farrell's book will lead you to erroneous conclusions based on its poor use of statistics (might not want to generalize to the whole population based on a sample size of 6)
 
2008-03-24 12:19:02 PM
meljordan: the voices in your head: I initially read the headline as "The Pap Gap".

Ew.

I read it as "Gay Pap."


So did I. You're not alone in your dyslexia.
 
2008-03-24 12:19:19 PM
They want everything equal at work, but then when it comes to lifting or moving something around the office, suddenly only a man can do it.

/man up, ya c*nts
 
2008-03-24 12:19:47 PM
So many things to control for so little time to do a good study.
1) Women often take jobs that have more relaxed hours, men in higher management positions generally take jobs that expect you to be available 24/7.
2) Women don't negotiate pay as much.

Now me on the other hand, I enjoy my relaxed hours and I really am a crappy negotiator..
 
2008-03-24 12:20:10 PM
meljordan: the voices in your head: I initially read the headline as "The Pap Gap".

Ew.

I read it as "Gay Pap."


pag yap? whoah. say that out loud. it almost sounds like pay gap. pag yap. pay gap. pag yap.

/almost a palindrome i guess
 
2008-03-24 12:20:32 PM
chicks are insane. I completely understand why and how this must be.

/chick
 
2008-03-24 12:21:19 PM
Its all about comparative advantage. Women are good at making babies and doing domestic shiat, men are good at being disciplined and doing real work. That is why men get paid more, because they are worth more. Capitalism is the best enemy of discrimination. The businessmen I know want to make money, women get paid less because they bring drama to the table, and are useless for 5 days a month.
4hisglory.files.wordpress.com
 
2008-03-24 12:21:24 PM
The bigger the chesticles and the nicer the turd cutter = more pay.
 
2008-03-24 12:21:45 PM
robisfunky: meljordan: the voices in your head: I initially read the headline as "The Pap Gap".

Ew.

I read it as "Gay Pap."

I read it as "Fap Gap"
/which would really explain a lot


I thought the pay difference was due to their lap gap...
/vagina joke
 
2008-03-24 12:21:46 PM
i114.photobucket.com
/obligatory
 
2008-03-24 12:22:26 PM
If women are too stupid to negotiate and work hard to get noticed then why aren't business firing all the men and replacing them with women?
 
2008-03-24 12:22:28 PM
What happened to the theory that men tend to enjoy more aggressive, well paying jobs (CEOs, lawyers, etc) well women tend to want to work in social jobs that don't require fighting others for a position (school teachers, etc). Thus women are choosing to get paid less.

Maybe that theory is out of date. Oh well.
 
2008-03-24 12:23:19 PM
Women suck at scoring salaries but make out like bandits in divorce court. Solution: chicks need to hire lawyers more often.

/ Going to hell law school
 
2008-03-24 12:23:32 PM
Tips on How to Handle
Women Employees

1. Pick young married women. They usually have more of a sense of responsibility than their unmarried sisters. They are less likely to be flirtatious. They need the work, or they would not be doing it. They still have the pep and interest to work hard and to deal with the public efficiently.

2. When you have to use older women, try to get ones who have worked outside the home at some time in their lives. Older women who have never contacted the public have a hard time adapting themselves and are inclined to be cantankerous and fussy. It is always well to impress upon older women, the importance of friendliness and courtesy.

3. General experience indicates that "husky" girls - those who are just a little on the heavy side - are more even-tempered and efficient than their underweight sisters.


Link (new window)
 
2008-03-24 12:23:54 PM
gfactor47:
After one year of full-time employment, women earn 20% less than their male colleagues, according to a study conducted by the American Association of University Women (AAUW) a Washington-based nonprofit.


I remember my graduating class - all the hard subjects (Engineering, economics, statistics, etc.) were sausage parties. All the unemployable liberal arts crap, plus the biological sciences (if you're not a doctor, it's not worth the paper it's written on)? All women.

You slacked off and took the easy subjects, don't biatch to me.
 
2008-03-24 12:23:58 PM
I don't understand why the one "recent female college grad" quoted is 31...she's obviously not the average 2006 graduate.
 
2008-03-24 12:24:49 PM
DulceEtDecorumEst: Its all about comparative advantage. Women are good at making babies and doing domestic shiat, men are good at being disciplined and doing real work. That is why men get paid more, because they are worth more. Capitalism is the best enemy of discrimination. The businessmen I know want to make money, women get paid less because they bring drama to the table, and are useless for 5 days a month.

Capitalism may be a relatively good enemy of discrimination, but obviously it's not perfect. Otherwise audit studies of hiring, lending, and housing patterns would reveal no discrimination, eh?

Additionally, the idea that women are apparently not disciplined and can't do real work is downright laughable. Is that why women's graduation rates from high school and college are now higher than men's?
 
2008-03-24 12:24:54 PM
LineNoise 2008-03-24 12:03:09 PM

Also they tend not to count materninity leave against women when they calculate the time they have been in the workforce.


This.

Plus, they don't factor all the times they've skipped out early to take the kids to soccer practice. That's something that won't help your career.
 
2008-03-24 12:25:41 PM
Statistically, women change jobs more often. They also don't like jobs involving long hours or anything disgusting or stressful, and tend more towards liberal arts degrees than degrees in useful technical subjects. Therefore, they're just not worth as much from a hiring standpoint. And that's even ignoring the problems with sexual harrassment lawsuits (again, women predominate), catfights (women are their own best obstacle to success), etc.

A woman of equal educational level, mental toughness, and willingness to stick with a job makes at least as much as a man in the same position. That is equal opportunity, not quotas.
 
2008-03-24 12:26:06 PM
Spindle: I just this morning got a promotion and a 4% raise, so I'm really going to be getting a kick out of these replies.

/man


Good for you, but 4% doesn't sound like both (of course 4% of 50,000 is less than 4% of $200000, I don't know how much you make). But times are tight and I expect that you will uses that for a TF membership.

Plus, women make up for it in benefits as they get 2 doctors
 
2008-03-24 12:26:29 PM
ChopSueyKS: What happened to the theory that men tend to enjoy more aggressive, well paying jobs (CEOs, lawyers, etc) well women tend to want to work in social jobs that don't require fighting others for a position (school teachers, etc). Thus women are choosing to get paid less.

Maybe that theory is out of date. Oh well.


That, my friend, is the theory of compensating differentials. Most good research (around the early 90s), contradicted the predictions of this theory.
 
2008-03-24 12:26:40 PM
snorton1:

Additionally, the idea that women are apparently not disciplined and can't do real work is downright laughable. Is that why women's graduation rates from high school and college are now higher than men's?


Look what they're studying. Plumbers make more than your average ecology major.
 
2008-03-24 12:26:43 PM
Women get paid far more if you count it based on hours actually worked.
 
2008-03-24 12:27:39 PM
j0ndas: Statistically, women change jobs more often. They also don't like jobs involving long hours or anything disgusting or stressful, and tend more towards liberal arts degrees than degrees in useful technical subjects. Therefore, they're just not worth as much from a hiring standpoint. And that's even ignoring the problems with sexual harrassment lawsuits (again, women predominate), catfights (women are their own best obstacle to success), etc.

A woman of equal educational level, mental toughness, and willingness to stick with a job makes at least as much as a man in the same position. That is equal opportunity, not quotas.


Got sources?
 
2008-03-24 12:28:44 PM
cefm: Pay gap? Elliot Spitzer would beg to differ. $4,500/hr is pretty damn good.

Hers was *gap pay*.

Big difference.
 
2008-03-24 12:29:01 PM
Our teacher's union just got us a "pay equity" raise and back pay for 5 years! Even men teachers received the pay equity raise. Apparently women dominated careers are at the low end of the pay scale. Could this account for strippers trying to pay for college?
 
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