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(CNN)   Obama points out that McCain doesn't know the difference between Shiite and Sunni. To be fair, when McCain went to high school with the prophet Mohammed, these differences didn't even exist   (politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com) divider line 73
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715 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 Mar 2008 at 6:28 PM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-03-19 02:55:54 PM
Obama definitely knows, he learned it in the madrassa when he was young.
 
2008-03-19 03:08:05 PM
GaryPDX: knbber2: Obama definitely knows, he learned it in the madrassa when he was young.

Okay..that's two..lol

I find it humorous people are saying he's too old. He can't be SCOTUS, he's too OLD.

/rolls eyes


SCOTUS?
 
2008-03-19 03:09:11 PM
GaryPDX: He can't be SCOTUS, he's too OLD.

I think you mean POTUS.

McCain is too YOUNG for the Supreme Court.
 
2008-03-19 03:11:12 PM
Nice headline.
 
2008-03-19 03:13:36 PM
Belt, onion, you know the rest.
 
2008-03-19 03:30:02 PM
Bush doesn't even know the difference between Shiite and Shinola.
 
2008-03-19 03:30:45 PM
So, the GOP's plan is: If a petulant dim-wit got us into this then an angry, confused old man can get us out it.
 
2008-03-19 03:50:01 PM
milk_plus: So, the GOP's plan is: If a petulant dim-wit got us into this then an angry, confused old man can get us out it.

The power is in the administration, they just need someone in the White House to water the plants and make sure the lights are on sometimes so people think someone's at home.
 
2008-03-19 03:58:24 PM
GaryPDX: vincentpriceisdead: The power is in the administration, they just need someone in the White House to water the plants and make sure the lights are on sometimes so people think someone's at home.

I know you are bashing..but damn. That doesn't sound bad at all.


During the 2000 election a lot of people didn't think Bush had the experience to be president but they thought he had a good cabinet and a VP with experience (Rumsfeld, Powell, Cheney).
 
2008-03-19 04:01:32 PM
Here is the full text of the speech. Quite good.
 
2008-03-19 04:15:14 PM
milk_plus: (Rumsfeld, Powell, Cheney).

Resigned in disgrace.
Resigned in disgust.
Shot a dude.

When can we start putting Bush on Mt. Rushmore?
 
2008-03-19 05:03:36 PM
"Democrats have launched political attacks today because they know the American people have deep concerns about their candidates' judgment and readiness to lead as commander in chief."

Errrr no. It's because they find it funny that Mr. Ageandexperience Olddude seems to be just as clueless as President Dribblebrains McSquishhead.

And it's even more funny when Joe Lieberman, who hasn't had a clue in years, has to correct you.
 
2008-03-19 05:15:03 PM
Brilliant headline
 
2008-03-19 05:38:52 PM
McCain has done this a few times. When Bush does this kind of thing a few times people figure that he's up to something. When McCain does it a few times people figure he has no idea what he's talking about or he's frequently confused. That's a bad sign for McCain.
 
2008-03-19 05:49:21 PM
Etchy333: milk_plus: (Rumsfeld, Powell, Cheney).

Resigned in disgrace.
Resigned in disgust.
Shot a dude.

When can we start putting Bush on Mt. Rushmore?


Hell, give him his own goddamn mountain.

/Him in his flight suit would look good.
 
2008-03-19 06:20:56 PM
knbber2: Obama definitely knows, he learned it in the madrassa when he was young.

It is becoming more obvious that he is a sleeper cell Al-Quaeda terrorist every day. I hope he is exposed before it's too late.
 
2008-03-19 06:34:13 PM
knbber2: Obama definitely knows, he learned it in the madrassa when he was young.

You attended a madrasah too. It simply means "school" in Arabic.
 
2008-03-19 06:36:31 PM
eqtworld: It is becoming more obvious that he is a sleeper cell Al-Quaeda terrorist every day. I hope he is exposed before it's too late.

Yeah, McCain is only sleepy.
 
2008-03-19 06:37:03 PM
GaryPDX: I find it humorous people are saying he's too old. He can't be SCOTUS, he's too OLD.

Whoa

whoa

whoa

whoa

whoa

whoa

whoa

whoa

Lois... this is NOT my batman cup.

/who the fark is considering mccain for scotus?
 
2008-03-19 06:37:54 PM
Shia, Sunni, it doesn't matter. McCain wants them all off his lawn and he wants them off now! Now leave him alone he usually eats dinner by 4pm it's already after 6 and he's not even ate dinner at the Picadilly cafe yet.
 
2008-03-19 06:38:25 PM
Suicidal Writer: knbber2: Obama definitely knows, he learned it in the madrassa when he was young.

You attended a madrasah too. It simply means "school" in Arabic.


Don't waste your time. knbber2 means "douche" in everything.
 
2008-03-19 06:41:08 PM
"Senator Obama's plan, if it can be charitably described as one..."

Haha. That's the truth. Obama's plan reads like a mixture of pixie dust and wishful thinking.
 
2008-03-19 06:43:47 PM
canyoneer: Haha. That's the truth. Obama's plan reads like a mixture of pixie dust and wishful thinking.

Feel free to lay his plan out as you understand it, and then show why you've developed that opinion.
 
2008-03-19 06:45:14 PM
McCain is a gaffeholic. He can't go a full day without gaffehol.
 
2008-03-19 06:46:00 PM
m0llusk: McCain is a gaffeholic. He can't go a full day without gaffehol.

Are you sure you don't mean rageohol?
 
2008-03-19 06:46:47 PM
milk_plus: So, the GOP's plan is: If a petulant dim-wit got us into this then an angry, confused old man can get us out it.

Hooray!
 
2008-03-19 06:47:18 PM
Maybe there will be a place for Trent Lott in McCain's cabinet.

"It's hard for Americans, all of us, including me, to understand what's wrong with these people. Why do they hate each other? Why do Sunnis kill Shiites? How do they tell the difference? They all look the same to me."

/For the record, I don't understand the whole British/Irish thing either, for the same reason.
//But I try not to mention that when I'm at me local.
 
2008-03-19 07:01:29 PM
mikeytherhino.files.wordpress.com
Easy, one comes from out yer bum and the other travels across the the heavens in a boat.
 
2008-03-19 07:02:37 PM
canyoneer: "Senator Obama's plan, if it can be charitably described as one..."

Haha. That's the truth. Obama's plan reads like a mixture of pixie dust and wishful thinking.


How is Obama's call to use more dipolmacy to address terrorism and the world's problems any different from recent calls by the Pentagon and current Bush Secretary of Defense Robert Gates to use more "soft power" to address these issues?

For exmaple:

"Secretary of Defense Robert Gates urged today that a new government organization of "civilian experts" help the U.S. shore up its dwindling reputation in the rest of the world, as part of the larger effort to "defeat terrorism." Speaking at Kansas State University, Gates reminded his audience that "soft" power-those forms of influence, like the appeal of national culture, that do not come from the barrel of a gun-will be as instrumental as military hard power in the years to come. Gates called on private experts and university members especially, to sign on.- source "


Or this:

"Gates called for "new organizations with a 21st century mind-set." He highlighted the need to create anew an agency or department that fits between the hard power of the Department of Defense and the soft power of existing competencies in diplomacy and development provided by the Department of State and Agency for International Development. -source "

It sounds like Gates and the Pentagon want some of Obama's "pixie dust" to me.
 
2008-03-19 07:04:11 PM
If McCain's elected, he will ban the Easter egg hunts on the White House lawn.

/think of the children
 
2008-03-19 07:14:46 PM
knbber2: Obama definitely knows, he learned it in the madrassa when he was young.

You farking idiot motherfarker. Did you read the speech? And this is the best response you've got? You're a disgrace, "knubber".
 
2008-03-19 07:16:40 PM
canyoneer: Haha. That's the truth. Obama's plan reads like a mixture of pixie dust and wishful thinking.

Whereas McCain's plan reads like George Bush's plan, only written in pen instead of crayon.
 
2008-03-19 07:17:22 PM
To be fair, I never considered McCain's age to be an issue until recently. He seems to be becoming increasingly senile, however, especially regarding his frequent assertions of "al Qaeda" in Iran and Iraq.
 
2008-03-19 07:18:35 PM
Excuse me. Mr. Orenthal Simpson was found NOT GUILTY by a jury of his peers. The man is 100% innocent.

/Go OJ!
 
2008-03-19 07:23:03 PM
Poopspasm: "Feel free to lay his plan out as you understand it, and then show why you've developed that opinion."

Bringing Our Troops Home

Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.

Press Iraq's Leaders to Reconcile

The best way to press Iraq's leaders to take responsibility for their future is to make it clear that we are leaving. As we remove our troops, Obama will engage representatives from all levels of Iraqi society - in and out of government - to seek a new accord on Iraq's Constitution and governance. The United Nations will play a central role in this convention, which should not adjourn until a new national accord is reached addressing tough questions like federalism and oil revenue-sharing.

Regional Diplomacy

Obama will launch the most aggressive diplomatic effort in recent American history to reach a new compact on the stability of Iraq and the Middle East. This effort will include all of Iraq's neighbors - including Iran and Syria. This compact will aim to secure Iraq's borders; keep neighboring countries from meddling inside Iraq; isolate al Qaeda; support reconciliation among Iraq's sectarian groups; and provide financial support for Iraq's reconstruction.

Humanitarian Initiative

Obama believes that America has a moral and security responsibility to confront Iraq's humanitarian crisis - two million Iraqis are refugees; two million more are displaced inside their own country. Obama will form an international working group to address this crisis. He will provide at least $2 billion to expand services to Iraqi refugees in neighboring countries, and ensure that Iraqis inside their own country can find a safe-haven.
(new window)

Let's go point-by-point:

1. Immediately removing combat troops from Iraq not only leaves a huge power vacuum that will be filled by militias, but it also gives up the biggest bargaining chip the U.S. has in Iraq in exchange for nothing. The idea of some sort of Fort Apache at the Embassy compound is an invitation to a siege and a disaster. Then he says he may keep troops in Iraq after all, to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda. He's removing all combat brigades within six months, but will leave (presumably) combat troops in Iraq nonetheless. What does that mean?

2. Iraq's leaders will do anything but reconcile if combat troops are removed immediately, because American combat power and cooption of militias is the only thing keeping the various factions from battling over turf right now. Obama's insistence on political settlements over federalism and revenue sharing echo the Republican position, but he would immediately take the biggest bargaining chip America has off the table. How the removal of any coercive presence might put pressure on the various Iraqi factions is unclear.

3. This is where it gets all puppy dogs and rainbows. Evidently, Obama intends to talk all of the countries in the region out of their ancient rivalries and hatreds, but doesn't reveal how such diplomacy would work where none has worked for years...up to 8,000 years, if you want to get technical about it. This Obama's Magical Mystery Peace Conference would somehow mend all divisions between the sects, convince all the regional powers to refrain from any meddling, and "isolate Al Qaeda." He would also apparently pour money into Iraq for "reconstruction" with no strings attached. All of this is rather vague and charmingly hopeful, but never very specific.

4. Here Obama intends to mop up by organizing a massive humanitarian relief effort inside Iraq with no mention whatsoever of how security would be provided. Evidently, the preceding Obama's Magical Mystery Peace Conference would already have taken care of all that, and Iraq will by then be a strife-free zone of happily cooperating and cooperative Iraqis. He guarantees "safe haven" for internally displaced Iraqis with no mention of how safety will be maintained in these "safe havens." In addition, he will encourage Iraqi refugees to remain refugees by giving $2 billion in "services" in exile, thus creating yet more ghettos of Arab refugees across the region - not that Arab refugee camps have ever been the source of any extremism or violence in the recent past, of course.

Yes, I'd say Obama has whipped himself up a fine froth of pixie dust and wishful thinking with his "plan" for Iraq, with a distinct soupçon of naiveté. McCain's spokesman was right: It would be charitable to describe this fluff as a plan.
 
2008-03-19 07:23:15 PM
WFern: To be fair, I never considered McCain's age to be an issue until recently. He seems to be becoming increasingly senile, however, especially regarding his frequent assertions of "al Qaeda" in Iran and Iraq.

I think we're ready for a President who shows signs of Alzheimer's.
 
2008-03-19 07:27:37 PM
canyoneer: [...]>

You're complaining that the man is essentially following the findings of the Iraq Study Group. You know - gradual withdrawal, negotiations with Iran and Syria, etc. The plan that most middle eastern experts have supported.

But please, keep right on supporting the neoconservative predictions. Predictions made by the same group of people who have gotten everything wrong since '02.
 
2008-03-19 07:30:13 PM
[I fail with italics.]

WFern: canyoneer: [...]

You're complaining that the man is essentially following the findings of the Iraq Study Group. You know - gradual withdrawal, negotiations with Iran and Syria, etc. The plan that most middle eastern experts have supported.

But please, keep right on supporting the neoconservative predictions. Predictions made by the same group of people who have gotten everything wrong since '02.

[There we have it.]
 
2008-03-19 07:31:24 PM
AkaDad: WFern: To be fair, I never considered McCain's age to be an issue until recently. He seems to be becoming increasingly senile, however, especially regarding his frequent assertions of "al Qaeda" in Iran and Iraq.

I think we're ready for another President who shows signs of Alzheimer's.


FTFY
 
2008-03-19 07:33:12 PM
canyoneer: 1. Immediately removing combat troops from Iraq not only leaves a huge power vacuum that will be filled by militias, but it also gives up the biggest bargaining chip the U.S. has in Iraq in exchange for nothing.

When we leave we'll stop hemorrhaging 8-10+ billion dollars a month. That's something right there.


2. Iraq's leaders will do anything but reconcile if combat troops are removed immediately, because American combat power and cooption of militias is the only thing keeping the various factions from battling over turf right now.

I disagree. They're not getting along after 5 years of our occupation, they won't get along after another century of our occupation...

3. This is where it gets all puppy dogs and rainbows. Evidently, Obama intends to talk all of the countries in the region out of their ancient rivalries and hatreds, but doesn't reveal how such diplomacy would work where none has worked for years...up to 8,000 years, if you want to get technical about it. This Obama's Magical Mystery Peace Conference would somehow mend all divisions between the sects, convince all the regional powers to refrain from any meddling, and "isolate Al Qaeda." He would also apparently pour money into Iraq for "reconstruction" with no strings attached. All of this is rather vague and charmingly hopeful, but never very specific.

I vastly prefer Obama's niceties to McCain's desire to bomb bomb bomb Iran & stay in Iraqnam forever.

4. Here Obama intends to mop up by organizing a massive humanitarian relief effort inside Iraq with no mention whatsoever of how security would be provided. Evidently, the preceding Obama's Magical Mystery Peace Conference would already have taken care of all that, and Iraq will by then be a strife-free zone of happily cooperating and cooperative Iraqis. not that Arab refugee camps have ever been the source of any extremism or violence in the recent past, of course.

We owe the Iraqi people some money. However, the solution to Iraq's problems will come from the Middle east, not from the West's military might.

Yes, I'd say Obama has whipped himself up a fine froth of pixie dust and wishful thinking with his "plan" for Iraq, with a distinct soupçon of naiveté. McCain's spokesman was right: It would be charitable to describe this fluff as a plan.

If we don't stay in Iraq forever, then we've lost.

No.

Sorry. We've done all we can. It's time to stop digging.
 
2008-03-19 07:41:42 PM
m0llusk: McCain is a gaffeholic. He can't go a full day without gaffehol.

Don't misunderestimate him.....
 
2008-03-19 07:46:48 PM
canyoneer: Let's go point-by-point:

Do let's.

1. Immediately removing combat troops from Iraq not only leaves a huge power vacuum that will be filled by militias, but it also gives up the biggest bargaining chip the U.S. has in Iraq in exchange for nothing. The idea of some sort of Fort Apache at the Embassy compound is an invitation to a siege and a disaster. Then he says he may keep troops in Iraq after all, to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda. He's removing all combat brigades within six months, but will leave (presumably) combat troops in Iraq nonetheless. What does that mean?

It essentially means a phased withdrawal that leaves room for a stabilizing force, while simultaneously forcing the Iraqi govt. to get their shiat together. Special forces, surgical strikes, etc. Those types of tactics have been shown time and time again to allow your fighting force the same flexibility and speed as the insurgents have, only with better toys and training. It also lowers troop visibility, making it more difficult to plan attacks on our boys--insurgents can't take them in a firefight, so they suprise them. We went wrong by thinking we could occupy Iraq with few troops. We should have gone with greater power, or gotten in and out without the dawdlling around.

2. Iraq's leaders will do anything but reconcile if combat troops are removed immediately, because American combat power and cooption of militias is the only thing keeping the various factions from battling over turf right now. Obama's insistence on political settlements over federalism and revenue sharing echo the Republican position, but he would immediately take the biggest bargaining chip America has off the table. How the removal of any coercive presence might put pressure on the various Iraqi factions is unclear.

It puts their backs to the wall--"We're leaving, figure it out." They'd have no choice but to adapt in order to survive. Clearly, opening our checkbook and standing around with our thumbs in our butts isn't working. It's an ultimatum. Essentially, it's a REpublican position, but a more hardline approach.

3. This is where it gets all puppy dogs and rainbows. Evidently, Obama intends to talk all of the countries in the region out of their ancient rivalries and hatreds, but doesn't reveal how such diplomacy would work where none has worked for years...up to 8,000 years, if you want to get technical about it. This Obama's Magical Mystery Peace Conference would somehow mend all divisions between the sects, convince all the regional powers to refrain from any meddling, and "isolate Al Qaeda." He would also apparently pour money into Iraq for "reconstruction" with no strings attached. All of this is rather vague and charmingly hopeful, but never very specific.

Diplomacy doesn't work if it's too tied to idealogy. He has to stay flexible, and he has to convince the surrounding nations that a stable Iraq is in their best interests. Whether or not this can be done remains to be seen, but compared to Bush's non-existant diplomatic efforts, it's a breath of fresh air.

And no, they don't all have to get along and hold hands. Most countries in the ME have some sort of gripe with one another, but they still manage to work together when it's in their best interests. In point of fact, Iraq's (formerly) secular nature means that all nations can legitimately be said to have a stake in the outcome. And yes, if you can get nation-states on board with this agenda (admittedly a big "if") and Al Queda decides to continue their meddling, they face the prospect of alienating themselves from formerly apathetic or sympathetic regimes.

Regarding reconstruction...Pottery Barn rules. We broke it, we own it.

4. Here Obama intends to mop up by organizing a massive humanitarian relief effort inside Iraq with no mention whatsoever of how security would be provided. Evidently, the preceding Obama's Magical Mystery Peace Conference would already have taken care of all that, and Iraq will by then be a strife-free zone of happily cooperating and cooperative Iraqis. He guarantees "safe haven" for internally displaced Iraqis with no mention of how safety will be maintained in these "safe havens." In addition, he will encourage Iraqi refugees to remain refugees by giving $2 billion in "services" in exile, thus creating yet more ghettos of Arab refugees across the region - not that Arab refugee camps have ever been the source of any extremism or violence in the recent past, of course.

Two things:

1) Security was spoken to in point one. The Iraqi govt. has to fend for itself sooner or later. They aren't a commonwealth. If that doesn't work, he'll have to think on his feet--that's how it goes.

2) Arab refugee camps create violence? Yes, of course. Would you rather he ignore them altogether? Besides, all he's proposing is making life palatable in the meantime, then (provided his plan works) they can become ex-refugees and move home. There's probably some short-term fix that you prefer, but for a long-term solution, this is what works.

Yes, I'd say Obama has whipped himself up a fine froth of pixie dust and wishful thinking with his "plan" for Iraq, with a distinct soupçon of naiveté. McCain's spokesman was right: It would be charitable to describe this fluff as a plan.

Provided you willfully misinterpret large sections of it, yes. If you actually think about what you're reading instead of trying to make it into something it isn't, you'll find it's a good plan. Not foolproof by any means, but no plan is.
 
2008-03-19 07:48:50 PM
Etchy333: milk_plus: (Rumsfeld, Powell, Cheney).

Resigned in disgrace.
Resigned in disgust.
Shot a dude.

When can we start putting Bush on Mt. Rushmore?


You can't. The rest of the mountain is not suitable for carving.

/for real
 
2008-03-19 07:49:35 PM
2wolves: Belt, onion, you know the rest.

how does anything funny cease to be funny once it's a fark meme?
 
2008-03-19 08:02:34 PM
canyoneer: Poopspasm: "Feel free to lay his plan out as you understand it, and then show why you've developed that opinion."

Bringing Our Troops Home

Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.

Press Iraq's Leaders to Reconcile

The best way to press Iraq's leaders to take responsibility for their future is to make it clear that we are leaving. As we remove our troops, Obama will engage representatives from all levels of Iraqi society - in and out of government - to seek a new accord on Iraq's Constitution and governance. The United Nations will play a central role in this convention, which should not adjourn until a new national accord is reached addressing tough questions like federalism and oil revenue-sharing.

Regional Diplomacy

Obama will launch the most aggressive diplomatic effort in recent American history to reach a new compact on the stability of Iraq and the Middle East. This effort will include all of Iraq's neighbors - including Iran and Syria. This compact will aim to secure Iraq's borders; keep neighboring countries from meddling inside Iraq; isolate al Qaeda; support reconciliation among Iraq's sectarian groups; and provide financial support for Iraq's reconstruction.

Humanitarian Initiative

Obama believes that America has a moral and security responsibility to confront Iraq's humanitarian crisis - two million Iraqis are refugees; two million more are displaced inside their own country. Obama will form an international working group to address this crisis. He will provide at least $2 billion to expand services to Iraqi refugees in neighboring countries, and ensure that Iraqis inside their own country can find a safe-haven. (new window)

Let's go point-by-point:

1. Immediately removing combat troops from Iraq not only leaves a huge power vacuum that will be filled by militias, but it also gives up the biggest bargaining chip the U.S. has in Iraq in exchange for nothing. The idea of some sort of Fort Apache at the Embassy compound is an invitation to a siege and a disaster. Then he says he may keep troops in Iraq after all, to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda. He's removing all combat brigades within six months, but will leave (presumably) combat troops in Iraq nonetheless. What does that mean?

2. Iraq's leaders will do anything but reconcile if combat troops are removed immediately, because American combat power and cooption of militias is the only thing keeping the various factions from battling over turf right now. Obama's insistence on political settlements over federalism and revenue sharing echo the Republican position, but he would immediately take the biggest bargaining chip America has off the table. How the removal of any coercive presence might put pressure on the various Iraqi factions is unclear.

3. This is where it gets all puppy dogs and rainbows. Evidently, Obama intends to talk all of the countries in the region out of their ancient rivalries and hatreds, but doesn't reveal how such diplomacy would work where none has worked for years...up to 8,000 years, if you want to get technical about it. This Obama's Magical Mystery Peace Conference would somehow mend all divisions between the sects, convince all the regional powers to refrain from any meddling, and "isolate Al Qaeda." He would also apparently pour money into Iraq for "reconstruction" with no strings attached. All of this is rather vague and charmingly hopeful, but never very specific.

4. Here Obama intends to mop up by organizing a massive humanitarian relief effort inside Iraq with no mention whatsoever of how security would be provided. Evidently, the preceding Obama's Magica ...


Step #5 Hope. Hope really damn hard.
 
2008-03-19 08:03:40 PM
Well, evidently none of you (or Obama for that matter) has contemplated what exact payoffs and security guarantees and concessions would be needed to somehow reconcile all of these competing factions and sects and nations (and to whom these payoffs and guarantees and concessions would be made, and to what end, precisely), nor have you (or Obama for that matter) elucidated how this all would affect U.S. goals and interests in the region.

Nowhere does this hazy excuse for a strategy describe or estimate how much expenditure might be involved, what redeployments or alteration of basing arrangements for U.S. forces might be involved, or what adjustments to long-standing U.S. policy might be involved.

Essentially, Obama's "plan" is to walk away, hope for the best, and trust that our interests will thereby be protected. But somehow, it will be better than what's happening now, supposedly.

And amazingly, there is nary a peep about this:

www.worldproutassembly.org

Obama has somehow managed to formulate a non-specific "plan" for the Persian Gulf without ever mentioning the word "petroleum."

How about that?
 
2008-03-19 08:08:25 PM
ravenlore: Etchy333: When can we start putting Bush on Mt. Rushmore?

You can't. The rest of the mountain is not suitable for carving.

/for real


Why must you crush my dreams?
 
2008-03-19 08:09:54 PM
canyoneer: Well, evidently none of you (or Obama for that matter) has contemplated what exact payoffs and security guarantees and concessions would be needed to somehow reconcile all of these competing factions and sects and nations (and to whom these payoffs and guarantees and concessions would be made, and to what end, precisely), nor have you (or Obama for that matter) elucidated how this all would affect U.S. goals and interests in the region.

Nowhere does this hazy excuse for a strategy describe or estimate how much expenditure might be involved, what redeployments or alteration of basing arrangements for U.S. forces might be involved, or what adjustments to long-standing U.S. policy might be involved.


Actually, I laid it out for you in fairly obvious terms. No big words or anything.

It isn't that anyone hasn't considered it, it's that the farking diplomacy isn't being done so there's no way to state with any confidence what it will take to get these nations on board.

How is that a response anyways? It's will cost $5. There you go, now you have a number and it's a worthwhile plan. I'm sure that number will be about as accurate as Rumsfeld's "the oil revenues will pay for the war" prediction. Feel better? Want to debate the plan based on its merits instead of moving the goalposts again?

I'll listen to any real objection you have, but simply tossing out the standard "He wants to sing Kumbaya!" or "He doesn't come right out and say how much bribe money we'll be giving out" (while conveniently ignoring the fact that, whatever that number is, it will be significantly lower than what we're paying for the war) just makes you look silly.
 
2008-03-19 08:19:49 PM
Poopspasm: "..whatever that number is, it will be significantly lower than what we're paying for the war..."

How could you possibly know that?
 
2008-03-19 08:23:01 PM
canyoneer 2008-03-19 08:19:49 PM
Poopspasm: "..whatever that number is, it will be significantly lower than what we're paying for the war..."

How could you possibly know that?



Well, we're currently bribing people, And paying for the occupation, so if we move to just the bribes, then that would be less, right?
 
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