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(STLToday)   Man who taped infamous police encounter files federal civil rights violation case says he wasn't baiting police with the camera in his car, but that the police are thankful he had one because they still can't find their dashcam video   ( stltoday.com) divider line
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21287 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Mar 2008 at 10:40 AM (9 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-03-18 04:10:23 PM  
Lem Motlow: jso2897: Lem Motlow: Where's czarangulus?

I think he finally decided to put his degree to work and open up a little corner philosophy shop.

It seems he may have created a few new user names and is adding quite a bit to this thread. Like ArcadianRefugee, Finger51, skrilled...


???
please explain. I honestly don't know what you mean.... I've only posted once and don't do 'alias's'
 
2008-03-18 04:14:16 PM  

Thank you for the input and worthy offer to fix it. No need though. We disagree.

This is one of those times where, yeah, the kid wasn't breaking the law, just like it's not illegal to have a bumper sticker which pokes fun at law enforcement. And, yes, a responsible citizens should take it upon themselves to legally and respectfully monitor the behavior of the government (and thus cops). But just as your 1st Amendment allows you to have a bumper sticker which reads, "I hate Cops," that same person can expect to get pulled over a lot, and rarely get a break. And if it's two AM, and that car resembles one that is suspicious, you can bet your bucket that if it were me wearing the badge, I'd probably apply a little bit of pressure.

It was an assertively curious cop who asked Timothy McVeigh tough questions. And it's a darned good thing we didn't let his rights get...dusty.
 
2008-03-18 04:19:44 PM  
durbnpoisn: When I was young, I WISH I could have installed a video camera in my car. I used to get pulled over a minimum of 5 times a week. At all times of day. Then I would have my car searched.

All of this was because my brother was fairly well known as a bad dude. So, they messed with me constantly.

So, I know where this dude is coming from. After a while it really does become clear that your rights are being violated.

So, I support him in his fight. Although, he shouldn't be such a pussy that he needs the ACLU to stand up for him. He should just do it on his own, if he's that serious.


It's not being a pussy, it's being smart. They have loads of resources and expertise in fighting this crap in court.

Duh.
 
2008-03-18 04:36:43 PM  
A 2001 black durango is major police bait. I have been pulled over many times while driving it. Almost everytime they explain to me I resemble a person who just robbed a store down the street, or a stolen vehical matching this description. More often then not I'm in a suit or a dress shirt and tie. Though it is a bit of trouble they do appoligize and then I'm back on my way. I have only been pulled over once in this buick allure, I was speeding so he was just doing his job.
I havent really had any trouble with officers, They were pretty good when my car was stolen, and my other was broken into, and when it happened again. I got the shiatty car back but never got my sound system back :/

//sorry run on...
 
2008-03-18 04:38:36 PM  
Trojan_Whore: mooseyfate: Good point. For instance, I only had to read half of yours, but I went ahead and finished it just in case. Should've stuck with my first impression.

Damn, and here you had me caring right up until I clicked your profile.


Um...Okay. Excellent retort. Sure put me in my place.
 
2008-03-18 04:40:00 PM  
Heh, apparently the Chief of Police (^) in this town was put on probation a few years ago for trying to have sex with a teenage girl he pulled over.

This is pretty creepy: (^)
The patrol car drove away as Darrow started his car and followed. Because his camera had been set to capture night-time footage, the first 45 seconds of the video is obscured. It does, however, capture the police car making questionable turning maneuvers in order to get away. Members of the police community are on the record regarding their desire to stake out Darrow's home and harass the twenty-year-old. In late June, users of St. Louis CopTalk, an unofficial forum for Saint Louis area law enforcement, posted Darrow's home address along with messages containing apparent death threats in retaliation for the young motorist's taping of a DUI roadblock in November and a traffic ticket in June. One CopTalk user repeating the address wrote, "Every copper, City and County, should etch this little punks [sic] name in their [sic] memory. Brett Darrow, [address deleted], city of St. Louis."
 
2008-03-18 04:42:59 PM  
EbolaNYC: durbnpoisn: When I was young, I WISH I could have installed a video camera in my car. I used to get pulled over a minimum of 5 times a week. At all times of day. Then I would have my car searched.

All of this was because my brother was fairly well known as a bad dude. So, they messed with me constantly.

So, I know where this dude is coming from. After a while it really does become clear that your rights are being violated.

So, I support him in his fight. Although, he shouldn't be such a pussy that he needs the ACLU to stand up for him. He should just do it on his own, if he's that serious.

It's not being a pussy, it's being smart. They have loads of resources and expertise in fighting this crap in court.

Duh.


You forget that we're moving into the "Idiocracy as fact" generation. I'm just shocked there aren't people in here commenting about how he "talks like a fag".

/I think this guy has stood up to the St. Louis Police on his own long enough
//Why not use the resources and experience of the ACLU to seal the deal and get those bitter assholes off his back?
 
2008-03-18 04:49:25 PM  
Finger51: Lem Motlow: jso2897: Lem Motlow: Where's czarangulus?

I think he finally decided to put his degree to work and open up a little corner philosophy shop.

It seems he may have created a few new user names and is adding quite a bit to this thread. Like ArcadianRefugee, Finger51, skrilled...

???
please explain. I honestly don't know what you mean.... I've only posted once and don't do 'alias's'


czarangulus is a poster who has a grand reputation for posting comments that shed a very poor light on law enforcement officers by citing isolated (and, I suspect, often fictitious) incidents and using that to make sweeping generalizations without providing anything beyond andecdotal stories.

Your comment about how all cops are corrupt is very similar to something czar would post (at least insofar as it is a sweeping generalization without any real information to back it up).
 
2008-03-18 04:51:28 PM  
Saw the video. The civilian wasn't friendly (why the fark would you NEED to be friendly?) but he was in no way hostile or aggressive. He was was concise, but still courteous. The cop on the other hand, was an absolutely, utter farking punk.

But the important thing is, a college of the punk cop showed up -- and he did NOTHING to stop the punk cop. And that's the crux of the matter: no matter what kind of criminal activities a cop engages in, a fellow officer will always look the other way.

And that's why all cops are bad. The most famous case of a cop standing up against the crimes and corruption of his fellow officer was Serpico -- and he only did it after he was repeatedly shot in the head by four fellow officers and left for dead.

All cops are bad. No exceptions.
 
2008-03-18 04:53:38 PM  
Finger51: Lem Motlow: jso2897:

Unlike your comment, however, czar would use this to make himself look all street and hardcore. It was as if he would be trying to say "yeah, man, I hate those coppers. I would have kicked his *ss, but they would have locked me up forever. He got lucky this time."
 
2008-03-18 04:56:58 PM  
Lem Motlow:
Your comment about how all cops are corrupt is very similar to something czar would post (at least insofar as it is a sweeping generalization without any real information to back it up).


ah. I see.

So you think cops never cover for each other?
 
2008-03-18 05:03:25 PM  
Lem Motlow: czarangulus is a poster who has a grand reputation for posting comments that shed a very poor light on law enforcement officers by citing isolated (and, I suspect, often fictitious) incidents and using that to make sweeping generalizations without providing anything beyond andecdotal stories

OK, but that doesn't explain me. Mine wasn't citing anything, merely stating an opinion.

Or do you think the cop has a right to know what your evening plans are? Or is it that you think saying that to the cop would result in the cop's graciously retracting the question?
 
2008-03-18 05:07:47 PM  
Lem Motlow:

Reading your second post, I can see where (if you were high) you might infer that I was being "street". I was pointing out that it's none of the cops business, but it's not smart to piss off the guy who can pwn in you less than 2 seconds.

/always courteous to our 'friends in blue'
//except one douche who was accusing me of DUI (I hadn't had a drink all week)
 
2008-03-18 05:11:25 PM  
FZ6: Cerebral Ballsy: Wow, buncha cop fellators at thread top. Hope you guys are firends with everyone on the force, since you seem to be cool witht hem "inventing reasons to arrest" people.

Nice attempt, but you only get a 7/10.

These people aren't "fellating" the cops. Bottom line is that this guy is a prick. He said it himself that he would go about quoting his rights. No need to be obnoxious and stupid. As was said multiple times in this thread - the few times I have been pulled over was because I was doing something wrong (speeding). Other than that, I've been stopped at 3 checkpoints. I drove two different sports cars - one with a removable roof (Supra) and the other that had VERY dark tint (3000 GT) and NEVER got pulled over "just because". For people like you who think that cops are just a bunch of jackasses, maybe you could just try not breaking the law.

Coming from New Orleans, I used to hear people all the time scream about - "That's crap! I got pulled over AGAIN because of tail-light covers. Don't cops have anything better to do than harass me?!" Well, stupid, you KNOW it's illegal, yet continue to do it anyway. And that's their job - to stop people from doing illegal things.



So, quoting your rights to a cop who has overstepped his boundaries and has told you that he will illegally violate your rights for nothing more than asking a question is obnoxious and stupid?

Dude, go back to China if you don't want basic human rights, the kid wasn't doing anything illegal, the cop was abusing his authority, got caught, and was fired due to the media shiat-storm that ensued.

P.S. cops don't like making contact with effeminate guys, that is why you haven't been harassed by them, they are afraid "teh gay" will rub off on them.
 
2008-03-18 05:16:04 PM  
ArcadianRefugee: Lem Motlow: czarangulus is a poster who has a grand reputation for posting comments that shed a very poor light on law enforcement officers by citing isolated (and, I suspect, often fictitious) incidents and using that to make sweeping generalizations without providing anything beyond andecdotal stories

OK, but that doesn't explain me. Mine wasn't citing anything, merely stating an opinion.

Or do you think the cop has a right to know what your evening plans are? Or is it that you think saying that to the cop would result in the cop's graciously retracting the question?


You didn't quote the part of my post that explains the connection.
 
2008-03-18 05:17:53 PM  
Great Caesar's Toast: FZ6
The guy is an idiot
The cop did something stupid illegal
They are both at fault
Not every cop is bad

Let's not mince words. And how, exactly, was the kid an idiot?


Don't bother, he's not gotten the point by now, he never will.
 
2008-03-18 05:18:14 PM  
ArcadianRefugee: Lem Motlow:

Reading your second post, I can see where (if you were high) you might infer that I was being "street". I was pointing out that it's none of the cops business, but it's not smart to piss off the guy who can pwn in you less than 2 seconds.

/always courteous to our 'friends in blue'
//except one douche who was accusing me of DUI (I hadn't had a drink all week)


You should read my post a little more carefully. First, it wasn't addressed to you. Second, it started with the word "unlike."
 
2008-03-18 05:20:56 PM  
Finger51: Lem Motlow:
Your comment about how all cops are corrupt is very similar to something czar would post (at least insofar as it is a sweeping generalization without any real information to back it up).

ah. I see.

So you think cops never cover for each other?


I didn't say that. I try to avoid making sweeping generalization, particularly about a group of people who's charge is making my life more safe, while they put themselves in harm's way for meager pay.
 
2008-03-18 05:21:51 PM  
Voxton: Saw the video. The civilian wasn't friendly (why the fark would you NEED to be friendly?) but he was in no way hostile or aggressive. He was was concise, but still courteous. The cop on the other hand, was an absolutely, utter farking punk.

But the important thing is, a college of the punk cop showed up -- and he did NOTHING to stop the punk cop. And that's the crux of the matter: no matter what kind of criminal activities a cop engages in, a fellow officer will always look the other way.

And that's why all cops are bad. The most famous case of a cop standing up against the crimes and corruption of his fellow officer was Serpico -- and he only did it after he was repeatedly shot in the head by four fellow officers and left for dead.

All cops are bad. No exceptions.


Richie Roberts?
 
2008-03-18 05:47:03 PM  
Bullshiatter: Dude must get stopped a LOT to mount his own in-car camera. I bet he gets funny looks from dates.

No, I've considered it before after run ins with cops who accused me of being a heroine junkie, cops who said I was drunk (I was 20 years old and I never drank until I was old enough to). However, now taht I'm 27 my run ins with the law are few and far between now, and I always was polite with the police but now I just try to engage them in friendly conversation and I'm getting away with more than ever.

Funny how kids doing nothing wrong get more heat from cops than adults doing minor things wrong. But yeah, cops can be dicks and I usually take the cops side of the story with a grain of salt and this is a great example of why.
 
2008-03-18 05:48:05 PM  
Running a-puck: Sign me up for a transparent society (p)

Bruce Schneier disagrees at length.

/And Bruce already knows Alice's secret.
 
2008-03-18 05:48:10 PM  
jso2897: newtekie1: Every police office is corrupt, they all have quotas to meet and they all hassle people to make those quotas. They all make up charges. They could be spending their time actually fighting crime, but none of them do. They would rather hassle people in parking lots, or show up to work drunk, drive around in their cruizers drunk, and then pull over other people and arrest them for being drunk.

I think you are painting with an overly broad brush. I am pushing sixty now, and was a little wild when I was young, and have had dozens of contacts with the police - and I can only remember meeting three who I would put in a class with the officer in this incident. The vast majority that I have met have been pretty much ordinary schlubs like me, trying to earn a living. And I have also met a couple who occupy the opposite end of the spectrum from that crumb-bum. Leave us not generalize too much.



Sorry but what the police did 40 years ago and what the police are doing today are two completely different subjects.
 
2008-03-18 05:59:45 PM  
I watched that video.
Cop kept boasting about how he knew teh law.
Guess not enough to keep himself from getting fired.
 
2008-03-18 06:16:46 PM  
I drive a pretty hooked up ride...
i238.photobucket.com

I usually get stopped around 6 times a month for whatever reason. Searched occasionally. Local cops don't do it so much since they know me by now, but if I travel anywhere... I'm going to get pulled. Most of the time, I don't end up with any tickets, but sometimes the cop just goes nuts and writes me up for every equipment violation he can. Sometimes I get pulled just because they want to get a closer look too.

It's part of the life I guess, but it gets old.
 
2008-03-18 06:24:06 PM  
logruszed:


Ok, so it's douchebag. Got it.

/it's not really trolling if it's a genuine observation.


With that haircut, I'd be bitter too. You're an ass, little petulant troll.
 
2008-03-18 06:32:46 PM  
isaaczeke: newtekie1: Every police office is corrupt, they all have quotas to meet and they all hassle people to make those quotas. They all make up charges. They could be spending their time actually fighting crime, but none of them do. They would rather hassle people in parking lots, or show up to work drunk, drive around in their cruizers drunk, and then pull over other people and arrest them for being drunk.

"OMG, I just painted the entire world with one stroke!"

I have never had any problems with police officers and have found them to be pretty friendly. But somehow, somehow, I resist thinking that all police everywhere must be pretty nice guys.

This thread is full of either "COPS ARE GREAT!!!" and "COPS ARE EVIL!!!" morans when, like every other profession, some are corrupt douchebags and others are regular, nice dudes.


There aren't any good cops.

If there were any good cops, they would out the bad cops, so as to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt to everyone that they are the good guys, by protecting the bad cops, they have proven that they are just as corrupt as the bad cops are.

Would you be considered a "good guy" or a "bad guy" for protecting a known terrorist? Would you be a "good person" or a "bad person" if you saw a crime being committed and looked the other way? What about if your job was to stop crime? Not only are you looking the other way, you aren't doing your job.

Until the so-called "good cops" start ratting out the "bad cops" I feel just fine calling them all bad cops, because it is the truth.
 
2008-03-18 06:35:35 PM  
onecanshort:
To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.


That's why I'm voting Beeblebrox in '08, and so should you!
 
2008-03-18 06:36:50 PM  
A$$man: mofomisfit: A$$man

It's not the money signs, it's the putting them in the word "ass" as if that was clever or funny.

Are you still on it MOFO? To assume A$$man means ASSman makes an ass of you and me. Stop making an ass of yourself.


That's some weapons grade FAIL right there.
 
2008-03-18 07:01:39 PM  
soupgoblin: jso2897: newtekie1: Every police office is corrupt, they all have quotas to meet and they all hassle people to make those quotas. They all make up charges. They could be spending their time actually fighting crime, but none of them do. They would rather hassle people in parking lots, or show up to work drunk, drive around in their cruizers drunk, and then pull over other people and arrest them for being drunk.

I think you are painting with an overly broad brush. I am pushing sixty now, and was a little wild when I was young, and have had dozens of contacts with the police - and I can only remember meeting three who I would put in a class with the officer in this incident. The vast majority that I have met have been pretty much ordinary schlubs like me, trying to earn a living. And I have also met a couple who occupy the opposite end of the spectrum from that crumb-bum. Leave us not generalize too much.


Sorry but what the police did 40 years ago and what the police are doing today are two completely different subjects.


I suppose that could be true. Naturally, now that I'm old, gray, and harmless, I don't have much contact with the police. You would think that with all that has happened in the last couple of decades, and with all the newfangled emphasis on professionalism in law enforcement, it would have gotten better, not worse. Of course, maybe that has something to do with it. When I was a kid, most cops were just working slobs who took the job because they needed a job and that was what they could do - guys from career cop families, or guys that came out of the service with no skills to speak of. Maybe the "dedicated professional" meme isn't such a good one. I have heard it said that the last person who should be a cop is somebody who really, really wants to be one.
Still, it's hard for me to discard a lifetime of experience regarding people - and that experience has repeatedly been that within ANY group of people, you will find the good, the bad, and, mostly, the mediocre.
 
2008-03-18 07:48:19 PM  
Cousin_Joe
Rights are one thing but blatant disrespect for authority only leads to criminal behavior.

I have not respected the president for a number of years... Somehow, this has not led me to a life of crime.

/"Authority" should not always and immediately equal "respect"
//Still, don't be a prick
 
2008-03-18 08:09:37 PM  
Cousin_Joe: Rights are one thing but blatant disrespect for authority only leads to criminal behavior.

Authority deserves no respect.
 
2008-03-18 09:33:36 PM  
Cop is a dooosh bagg and deserved to get fired.
 
2008-03-18 10:03:57 PM  
Unshavenhelga: logruszed:


Ok, so it's douchebag. Got it.

/it's not really trolling if it's a genuine observation.

With that haircut, I'd be bitter too. You're an ass, little petulant troll.


I'll bet you're the kind of guy who either told or can't wait to tell someone you "burned some guy about his haircut!" then go for a "hi-five". Nevermind that you side with the cops because you feel questioning their acts and being vigilant for abuses of the law while getting peer approval by doing god knows what in a cemetery and other private property.

Upholding the law = disrespect
Breaking the law and talking your way out of it = WINNAR!!11!1!!!
 
2008-03-18 10:09:25 PM  
bunner: johnny_vegas bunner: Did I?...

yes

Care to tighten that up for me, Lord Succint? Or do you just need ~n amount of baseless condescenscion per day?


if you notice your responses, I gave them all the consideration they deserved and as much thought went into it as went into yours. Any specific questions?
 
2008-03-18 10:49:14 PM  
Unshavenhelga: If he's baiting them, and I don't know that he is, he's endangering others by drawing the cops away from the real danger

Cops are not there to protect people from danger. They are there to detain and bring in suspects for trial, or to hand out traffic violations. If your life is in danger chances are the situation will be resolved before a police officer arrives, good luck.
 
2008-03-18 11:58:51 PM  
logruszed:
Nevermind that you side with the cops because you feel questioning their acts and being vigilant for abuses of the law while getting peer approval by doing god knows what in a cemetery and other private property.

Upholding the law = disrespect
Breaking the law and talking your way out of it = WINNAR!!11!1!!!


See:
Unshavenhelga: saw the video, and he's an asshole. The cop was an asshole too. I've talked myself out to two arrests, just by not being an asshole to the cops. This guy could be repectful, but he's not.

That said, he's got the right to be an asshole, and the cops can't use their badge to bully him, which the cop in question did.



Slow reader, as well as shiatty haircut.

Seriously, you need to calm down and read before you troll and bail.
 
2008-03-19 12:00:03 AM  
Ecdysozoa: Cops are not there to protect people from danger. They are there to detain and bring in suspects for trial, or to hand out traffic violations. If your life is in danger chances are the situation will be resolved before a police officer arrives, good luck.

Point taken. Danger was the wrong word.
 
2008-03-19 12:15:53 AM  
truer words were never spoken Ecdysozoa

as i've always said to my friends and family:

unless *you* called them, the police are not there to *help* you.

remember that.
 
2008-03-19 12:20:40 AM  
Those backwoods Utah cops are the worst. Got screamed at for having tinted windows. Funny thing, I haven't been back.
 
2008-03-19 12:44:14 AM  
h to the 'ojo: yeah yeah yeah

Cop haters are so predictable

Rodney King was 16 years ago. In one city. Involving a hoodlum and few cops who tried to take the protection of the community beyond what is legal.

The next time you're in a hostage situation, I'll bet you are pissing your pants with happiness when the cops risk their lives to save your worthless ass


You know what happened when Rodney King got into court? The jury heard and saw the ENTIRE tape, not just the muted portion they showed on the news. But the whole tape where Rodney King was saying he was going to kill the officers, threatening them and actively resisting. I'm not saying that what those cops did was right at all, but there's a reason why King never won anything in criminal court and only won in civil court.

Anyone know what Rodney King is doin now? ....That's right, beating the piss out of his wife a few times, doin and selling lots of drugs, getting arrested time and time again, gettin shot, etc, etc, etc.

Think of a new champion for civil rights than Rodney King...please.
 
2008-03-19 01:28:03 AM  
I play hockey with a bunch of cops. Alright guys for the most respects, but definitely separate people into "cop vs. non-cop" in their worldview. I can respect that they have a job to do, but I'll take a ticket over groveling to get out of it any day of the week.

Know your rights.

/also would like a camera kit for my truck
 
2008-03-19 01:34:05 AM  
Barbecue Bob: I couldn't listen to the asshole cop for more that 2 min.
What a twatwaffle.

Who hires these assholes?


Bigger ones. That kind of rot comes from the top.
 
2008-03-19 01:51:11 AM  
Its amazing how many are completely willing to lie down and let "the wheels of justice" roll over them. Many are even posting in this thread.

Well, go ahead and get back to gnawing grass. The rest of us "punks" will be fighting for your freedom.

The United States was based on the core principles of questioning authority. Violently. Especially when that authority voilates the basic inalienable (that means inseperable) rights that all humans should enjoy. Especially the rights specifically laid out in the basic legal framework of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights!

What these officers are doing is in direct violation of the core principles for which they are endentured to protect. Targeting someone who "dares" to illuminate injustice perpetuated by authority sworn to protect such basic liberties is tantamount to treason.

These officers really need to be ashamed of themselves. They are no better than common criminals!

Those who conduct, condone, or otherwise accept such behavior have divorced themselves from any moral compass - fools who trade honor for tyranny! What shameful depravity of mankind that we have become should we ignore these principles or those who fight for them!

Never stop questioning authority. Its the only way to ensure the continuity of liberty.
 
2008-03-19 11:59:24 AM  
When I was in college, one of my roommates was mugged outside the off campus computer lab in a small local mall. Took his wallet, backpack. He called the police, filed a report. He got in his car, got 100' down the road....

.... and was immediately pulled over. By the officer who responded to his mugging report. The one who just took his report. He was given a ticket for driving without a license.

-------------------
Currently listening to Frank Marino & Mahogany Rush's Tales of the Unexpected
 
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