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(MSNBC)   Douchebag parents sue douchebag school after douchebag administrators prevent douchebag student from being class secretary after douchebag student called them douchebags in her blog. Douchebag   (msnbc.msn.com) divider line 107
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10122 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Mar 2008 at 5:16 AM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-03-06 08:12:44 AM
Okay..So what we have here,is the school had to re-schedule an event..A student who worked on said event,gets upset cause she doesn't get her way,and in a fit calls,in a very public conveyance,said school officials douchebags.Now these douchebags,in a fit,punish the student for being a spoiled little biatch.

Now to my eyes both parties are in the wrong..The school for being petty douchebags,and the girl for being a selfish little biatch.

I feel sorry for the biatch for when she gets out into the real world.."Daddy...I got fired!!!I called my boss an asshole in my blog,and he saw it..so he fired me!!It ain't fair!!Sue him for me???"
 
2008-03-06 08:22:45 AM
I remember the original lawsuit, because I saw a bunch of fliers locally for a "Free Speech Festival" to raise money to pay for her lawyers.

If I remember right, she organized this concert that for whatever reason was postponed by the school to another date. She threw a hissy fit and then used the school's mailing list to spam all of the students and their parents about how outraged she was that she wasn't getting what she wanted. Because of this, the school canceled the concert outright. She writes an online hissy fit calling them douchebags, and the school decides that that type of thing isn't a good representation of how a student official should act, so they don't allow her to run for secretary. Not surprisingly, she throws a third hissy fit and sues the school system, wasting everyone's time again.

Free speech means you're allowed to post whatever you want online. It doesn't make you automatically free of any consequences.
 
2008-03-06 08:29:32 AM
scotzrewl: "Daddy...I can't join the Senate. I called the current Senators a bunch of douchebags on my blog, and now they passed a law specifically barring ME from being a Senator, even though everyone in the state voted for me."

T,FTFY.

From TFA: After discovering the blog entry, school officials refused to allow Doninger to run for re-election as class secretary. Doninger won anyway with write-in votes, but was not allowed to serve.

Free country, democracy is good, blah blah blah. Good lessons we are teaching these students at this school.
 
2008-03-06 08:35:23 AM
Not saying that she ismamoru: scotzrewl: "Daddy...I can't join the Senate. I called the current Senators a bunch of douchebags on my blog, and now they passed a law specifically barring ME from being a Senator, even though everyone in the state voted for me."

T,FTFY.

From TFA: After discovering the blog entry, school officials refused to allow Doninger to run for re-election as class secretary. Doninger won anyway with write-in votes, but was not allowed to serve.

Free country, democracy is good, blah blah blah. Good lessons we are teaching these students at this school.


Gee....Alarmist much??

Never said she was the only one in the wrong..I called the school a bunch of douches,'cause they are.But she is not blameless in this fiasco.
 
2008-03-06 08:37:33 AM

Douchebag you say?


i232.photobucket.com
Proud
 
2008-03-06 08:43:02 AM
Old and busted: Calling someone a douchebag
Teh new hotness: Calling someone a douchenozzle

\got nothin'
 
2008-03-06 08:48:15 AM
mamoru: Free country, democracy is good, blah blah blah. Good lessons we are teaching these students at this school.

It's funny that you think high school elections are anything other than popularity contests.
 
2008-03-06 08:52:48 AM
Hoboclown: She threw a hissy fit and then used the school's mailing list to spam all of the students and their parents about how outraged she was that she wasn't getting what she wanted. Because of this, the school canceled the concert outright.

Do you have a link to this part of the story?
 
2008-03-06 08:53:37 AM
Hoboclown: mamoru: Free country, democracy is good, blah blah blah. Good lessons we are teaching these students at this school.

It's funny that you think high school elections are anything other than popularity contests.


It's funny that you've qualified "elections" with "high school," as if grown-up political elections are any different.
 
2008-03-06 08:57:41 AM
Avery? Future stripper.
 
2008-03-06 08:58:51 AM
The girl should have just said who wants to be on the douchebag student council of this douchebag high school anyway? Instead she shows herself to be a douchebag by filing a lawsuit.
 
2008-03-06 09:14:09 AM
zippythechimp: Avery? Future stripper.

images.zap2it.com

Does not approve!
/Couldn't find Mrs. Avery
 
2008-03-06 09:17:09 AM
Vote for the Giant Douche!

http://www.looptvandfilm.com/blog/douche.jpg
 
2008-03-06 09:17:59 AM
whoops

www.looptvandfilm.com
 
2008-03-06 09:18:36 AM
Angel of Death: Hoboclown: mamoru: Free country, democracy is good, blah blah blah. Good lessons we are teaching these students at this school.

It's funny that you think high school elections are anything other than popularity contests.

It's funny that you've qualified "elections" with "high school," as if grown-up political elections are any different.


Thank you, that was pretty much what I was going to say. How many people voted for Bush because (paraphrasing comments I read on this site) "he's the kind of guy I'd like to sit down and have a beer with"?

Also, yes, High School elections are popularity contests, but you know why we have them? To teach the students the value of voting and that they do have a voice in determining how things go. You know, preparing them for their civic duties of the future. You know, kind of one of the main purposes of what school is all about.

It's sad that this actually has to be pointed out. But then again, the overall state of the US education system is a sad state of affairs. Do schools even have civics classes any more?
 
2008-03-06 09:22:41 AM
oryx: The girl should have just said who wants to be on the douchebag student council of this douchebag high school anyway? Instead she shows herself to be a douchebag by filing a lawsuit.

This. File a LAWSUIT??? Back in my day we'd form a revolutionary movement and take over the Student Council Meetings at water-pistol-point, publish a little-read mimeographed underground student paper that smelled like unwashed toes and then try to get high smoking banana peels...erm...

/same douchebag, different day
//the goths still dress like its new
///I say dress up like Bing Crosby as old as that shiat is
 
2008-03-06 09:27:32 AM
oryx: Instead she shows herself to be a douchebag by filing a lawsuit.

Can we please not pretend that a minor child is a conniving, litigious mastermind unto herself? She has parents, y'know. We have no idea what the distribution of douchebaggery between the three of them is.
 
2008-03-06 09:34:01 AM
If the administrators are truly concerned about losing face in front of the students then they should stop acting like douchebags and proving this girl right. Honestly, shouldn't the principal - a grown up who is the leader of an entire school - realize that students are going to complain about pretty much anything he does? But 'oh noes, its on the internets' so now this girl has to be made an example of.

\douchebagnozzle ftw!
 
2008-03-06 09:36:25 AM
Good lord, her parents farking appealed? This is still going on?
This has nothing to do with "free speech". This is a little brat and her like-minded parents demanding that she get to hold the position all four years of HS. This is what its about. Don't kid yourself. College transcripts and all.

It would be farking hilarious if no college would now admit her, wondering when they'd be sued if they did.
 
2008-03-06 09:42:45 AM
oryx: The girl should have just said who wants to be on the douchebag student council of this douchebag high school anyway? Instead she shows herself to be a douchebag by filing a lawsuit.

Oh, you're right - when she arranged an underground movement to write her in and WON the vote, then the administration STILL prevented her from serving the post, she should have rolled over and played dead.

BS. The way administrations treat students today is reprehensible, and needs to stop. If you can't remember the overwhelming censorchip and mistreatment that was continuously applied to any student outside the arbitrary norm when you were in high school, you're either too old to have a reasonable say or you were too busy kissing teacher/admin arse to notice what happened to those who didn't.
 
2008-03-06 09:52:55 AM
Bag of doosh.
 
2008-03-06 09:59:20 AM
The Beatles didn't write Sympathy for the Devil.
 
2008-03-06 09:59:53 AM
mansonozz: Douchebayyyyyyyg

i125.photobucket.com
Yes, theys ares a totals douchebags...
 
2008-03-06 09:59:56 AM
Freedom of Speech (def.):

I can say whatever I want, whenever I want. Oh, and you have to listen to what I say.

You are not permitted to judge me by what I say or take any negative action towards me.

You do not have these rights. I can interrupt you whenever I disagree with you, and I can most certainly judge and punish you for what you say.
 
2008-03-06 10:05:03 AM
snltranscripts.jt.org

One of the best SNL skits evar... (new window)
 
2008-03-06 10:08:37 AM
i208.photobucket.com

for more douchebag goodness might I recommend Hotchickswithdouchebags (new window)

It will make your skin crawl.
 
2008-03-06 10:08:52 AM
I know, Lance Armstrong. Don't have a hissy.
 
2008-03-06 10:09:30 AM
Angel of Death: Do you have a link to this part of the story?

Unfortunately, not an official one, just the one that was advertising the fundraising event.

Link (new window)

"At a student council meeting, a few days before the scheduled concert, the students found out that the auditorium would not be available as had been planned for. There were some bureaucratic issues about who would oversee the students using the equipment in the auditorium.

Avery, along with three other students did what we as activists applaud. They reached out to the voters and taxpayers. They sent an email to the parents of as many of their friends as they could find email addresses for and asked them to contact the school.

Yet many of us know that government officials don't always react properly to being contacted by the people they are supposed to serve, and that this can be even worse with school officials.

Avery was told by school officials that as a result of the email, the band festival would be canceled. The response is also what you would expect from a passionate teenager. That evening at home, she wrote an entry using a few choice words in her Livejournal."


I was mistaken about using the school's mailing list, but the spamming still stands.
 
2008-03-06 10:23:07 AM
Princess Queef: does anybody wonder the term douchebag comes from? while delightful, it doesn't make any sense, since a douche is in a bottle with a nozzle.

not that i have any experience with one.


No, I don't wonder. Before the little bottle with a nozzle, a douchebag was literally a rubber bag thing with a long hose and nozzle on it. You would fill it with soap and water or whatever and then hang it in the shower above your head so that water pressure moved the contents into your vajayjay. My mother had one, and I would see it hidden here and there from time to time. Quite traumatizing.

img.photobucket.com
 
2008-03-06 10:24:39 AM
First, I agree with what everyone is saying in citing the Tinker case but cases since then have progressively weakened the Tinker standard. Bethel v. Fraser, for example, allowed a school to ban speech that is "plainly offensive." While that has broad implications, the student in that case was giving a speech before the school and used various sexual innuendos. The Supreme Court upheld his suspension because:

"schools, as instruments of the state, may determine that the essential lessons of civil, mature conduct cannot be conveyed in a school that tolerates lewd, indecent, or offensive speech and conduct such as that indulged this confused boy."

Though you might ask yourself, what does this have to do with Donniger, that brings me to point two

In the 2nd Circuit, where this case is being appealed, the court has upheld suspensions of students whose conduct off of school directly impacted the school thus have the potential to cause a material and substantial disturbance. See Wisniewski v. Board of Educ. of Weedsport Cent. School Dist

In this case, Donniger sent out a mass email from the school computers to have parents and students inundate the principal with emails complaining about the canceling of jam fest. The principal testified that she sustained numerous calls as a result. Furthermore, calling the principal a "douche bag" on a blog, while not the same as calling her a douche bag to her face in school, could be seen by both administrators and students since it was publicaly posted on a blog. Because this showed a lack of respect for the administration, who would have to work with the student government, the school felt that Donniger was unfit to run for student government.

The Court upheld this punishment because, historically, the Courts will not interfere with the decisions a school makes regarding punishing a students.

/Kind of have an unfair advantage in this discussion (we've recently been assigned a project on student speech for our first year Legal Research and Writing Course) and, of course, the Donniger case has come up.

//waiting for replies from various classmates

///Flame war on!!!
 
2008-03-06 10:34:40 AM
If you're not willing to conduct yourself with dignity, you shouldn't have a leadership position. Calling the school administrators names on your blog is hardly conducting yourself with dignity, whether or not the administrators deserved it.

I side with the school.
 
2008-03-06 10:47:15 AM
chrisjsug630:In this case, Donniger sent out a mass email from the school computers to have parents

As far as precedent goes, this ends the case. If she was dumb enough to send it from school computers, then, J.S. v. Bethlehem Area School District holds precedent here, due to its statement that derogatory speech either aimed at school personnel or accessed on campus (and this was obviously both) can be punished by the school, regardless of whether that speech is a threat or even disruptive.

Basically: School is douchebaggy, but kid is a moron and a douchebag and therefore deserves to lose.
 
2008-03-06 10:48:40 AM
And yes, I realize that what I just referenced was not a supreme court ruling. The fact remains that other courts have since referenced Bethlehem as an accurate interpretation of Tinker. It is precedent.
 
2008-03-06 11:01:04 AM
She posted the statement outside of school, it is her opinion, this is a clear freedom of speech issue, and she should be protected under the first amendment. By filing a lawsuit, the girl and her family are doing what every citizen should do for themselves, but do seldomly, defend their constitutional rights. Sure she doesn't have moral high ground based on the statement she made, but that is completely irrelevant. The true offenders in this situation are the thin skinned faculty who apparently don't remember that they are in high school. Name calling is par for the course in high school, they should grow up and act like adults, instead of throwing what is essentially a pathetic tantrum. Frankly, the faculty is an embarrassment and a disgrace to professional, level headed teachers everywhere.
 
2008-03-06 11:17:58 AM
BraveNewCheneyWorld: She posted the statement outside of school, it is her opinion, this is a clear freedom of speech issue, and she should be protected under the first amendment. By filing a lawsuit, the girl and her family are doing what every citizen should do for themselves, but do seldomly, defend their constitutional rights. Sure she doesn't have moral high ground based on the statement she made, but that is completely irrelevant. The true offenders in this situation are the thin skinned faculty who apparently don't remember that they are in high school. Name calling is par for the course in high school, they should grow up and act like adults, instead of throwing what is essentially a pathetic tantrum. Frankly, the faculty is an embarrassment and a disgrace to professional, level headed teachers everywhere.

Nobody is denying her the right to say what she said. She just managed to out herself as an ignorant brat undeserving of her position.

The faculty lives in the same free country and have the same Constitutional rights as this girl, but if any one of them publicly called one of their students a "douchebag" they would be fired immediately. It's not that the school is preventing them from saying it, it's that the school now knows that they aren't qualified for the job.

If this same girl went to an interview (let's say, for a secretary) and called her old boss a "douchebag", she wouldn't get the job. It isn't because she's not allowed to say it, it's because this potential employer now knows that she's not a person they want to hire. Is this grounds for a lawsuit?

The girl made the case that she isn't mature enough to handle the position of high school secretary and the school was right to take it away from her.
 
2008-03-06 11:31:06 AM
BraveNewCheneyWorld: She posted the statement outside of school, it is her opinion, this is a clear freedom of speech issue, and she should be protected under the first amendment. By filing a lawsuit, the girl and her family are doing what every citizen should do for themselves, but do seldomly, defend their constitutional rights. Sure she doesn't have moral high ground based on the statement she made, but that is completely irrelevant. The true offenders in this situation are the thin skinned faculty who apparently don't remember that they are in high school. Name calling is par for the course in high school, they should grow up and act like adults, instead of throwing what is essentially a pathetic tantrum. Frankly, the faculty is an embarrassment and a disgrace to professional, level headed teachers everywhere.

She E-mailed her statement from inside of the school, using school computers, completely invalidating your statement. Schools have a right, by precedent, to punish derogatory action either aimed at school ground or accessed/originated from school computers (in reference to the internet).
 
2008-03-06 12:00:49 PM
Hoboclown: The faculty lives in the same free country and have the same Constitutional rights as this girl, but if any one of them publicly called one of their students a "douchebag" they would be fired immediately. It's not that the school is preventing them from saying it, it's that the school now knows that they aren't qualified for the job.

If they do it in school, I agree, outside of school they can say anything they please. She wrote this on the internet, she didn't say it in school. What she says in her personal time has no bearing on how "qualified" she is for a job. If I drink beer at home, do you assume I will drink beer at work, and therefore fire me, or not hire me? You cannot discriminate against someone for performing legal, constitutionally protected activities.

Leishu: She E-mailed her statement from inside of the school, using school computers, completely invalidating your statement. Schools have a right, by precedent, to punish derogatory action either aimed at school ground or accessed/originated from school computers (in reference to the internet).

FTFA- Avery Doninger, 17, claims officials at Lewis S. Mills High School violated her free speech rights when they barred her from serving on the student council because of what she wrote from her home computer.

Nice try, liar.
 
2008-03-06 12:05:01 PM
Don't worry Chris! I'm here!

chrisjsug630: First, I agree with what everyone is saying in citing the Tinker case but cases since then have progressively weakened the Tinker standard...

First, I would like point out that ChrisJsug630 was assigned the school's side in our LRW school speech case and apparently can't separate his real life opinion from his assigned position.

Secondly, the court has not progressively limited Tinker. What it has done was differentiate Tinker's political expression protections from other types of speech that isn't protected.

Political expressions can only be prevented on a viewpoint neutral basis because they can be foreseen to create a "material and substantial disruption." The court has never fully defined what is a material and substantial disruption, however we know that speech that causes arguments in the hall, students picking on other students and even the loss of a full class period are NOT enough to meet that level as that is what happened in Tinker.

Students cannot use lewd, profane or offensive language.
Schools can regulate speech that is or would appear to be "school sponsored" speech.
Schools can ban speech that promotes illegal drug use. However, it cannot ban speech that argues for a political change in regards to drugs. ("Smoke pot" can be banned, "Legalize pot" cannot.)

What they have actually done is say that lewd speech and promotion of illegal drug use are not political and thus not appropriate. They have also decided that the school can censor speech that it sponsors (for example - student newspapers paid for by the school).

However, student underground papers that aren't lewd and don't promote illegal drug use cannot be regulated unless they are creating a material and substantial disruption.

In this case, the court is likely to uphold the school's decision to suspend Avery Donninger. Looking at their school speech decisions, Avery's actions (sending out the mass e-mail from school computers, making comments that insulted the administration) created a material and substantial disruption. The office got a lot of phone calls and e-mail responses after the e-mail was sent out. And the school will argue that calling a member of the administration a "douchebag", even on myspace, will harm her ability to operate the school with full authority among the student body. This will be argued to be a material and substantial disruption.

I don't agree with that argument, but it is what is likely to happen. But not because asshats like chrisjsug630 say Tinker has been weakened.
 
2008-03-06 12:07:46 PM
Mr_Smartypants: The_Holy_Prepuce

> And even though the school admins are being total douchebags the 1st Amendment only protects us from federal curtailment of free speech.

Under the modern incorporation doctrine, the bill of rights is generally applied to state governments.

> It does not protect us from all repercussions.

The school douchebags' administrators' actions being the repercussions?

Doesn't punishment as a response to free speech constitute illegal curtailment? (keeping in mind public schools are state institutions)


I stand corrected.
 
2008-03-06 12:43:54 PM
BraveNewCheneyWorld: If they do it in school, I agree, outside of school they can say anything they please. She wrote this on the internet, she didn't say it in school. What she says in her personal time has no bearing on how "qualified" she is for a job. If I drink beer at home, do you assume I will drink beer at work, and therefore fire me, or not hire me? You cannot discriminate against someone for performing legal, constitutionally protected activities.

Link (new window)

"It was an unsavory term and I shouldn't have said it. It was a rude comment," she said. "It was written thinking that it would be private and it didn't occur to me that it's on the Internet, it's public."

The argument that she's being punished for saying things within the privacy of her own home is ludicrous. She posted it publically enough that the school officials found and read it. If you write in a blog that you think your boss is an asshole, and then he reads it, is he not within his rights to fire you?

Leishu: She E-mailed her statement from inside of the school, using school computers, completely invalidating your statement. Schools have a right, by precedent, to punish derogatory action either aimed at school ground or accessed/originated from school computers (in reference to the internet).

FTFA- Avery Doninger, 17, claims officials at Lewis S. Mills High School violated her free speech rights when they barred her from serving on the student council because of what she wrote from her home computer.

Nice try, liar.


Not a lie, just confused. She originally used school computers to spam parents and students asking them to harass the principal until she got her way. Because of this, the concert she organized went from postponed to canceled, prompting the "douchebag" comments.
 
2008-03-06 12:48:08 PM
WhyteRaven74: Unless the school could prove that what the girl posted interefered in the operation of the school, it has no case. The Supreme Court decided this 40 years ago in Tinker v Des Moines, which involved student actions and statements and wether or not students have the right to free speech and to what extent. Also there's other precedents in effect as well. But as far as standing precedent goes, the school is being fantastically stupid. Surprising, given all the potential pitfalls for the school's case, their attorney even went forward with it.

Their lawyer isn't concerned with whether or not the school can win, he is only interested in the money he can make by arguing the case. Typical ambulance chaser mentality, taking common sense down another notch in an out of control, lawsuit happy nation.
 
2008-03-06 01:18:21 PM
Hoboclown:

The girl made the case that she isn't mature enough to handle the position of high school secretary and the school was right to take it away from her.

Wait. Since this is supposed to be a school election, isn't it up to the students to determine if she is mature enough to handle the decision?

So, if McCain were to call somebody a "douchebag" tomorrow, you wouldn't have a problem if Congress declared that he is not mature enough to handle the position and remove him off the ballot?

Look, I personally think that what the school did was overboard, however having been up to my ears in school speech cases lately, I can tell you that I am pretty sure that the courts will support the school.

But to argue that the school gets to decide who is and isn't mature enough to run for student office is a little absurd when the whole point of those elections and positions are to teach kids how to be responsible, informed and involved members of the community and good citizens.
 
2008-03-06 01:21:51 PM
Hoboclown: The argument that she's being punished for saying things within the privacy of her own home is ludicrous. She posted it publically enough that the school officials found and read it. If you write in a blog that you think your boss is an asshole, and then he reads it, is he not within his rights to fire you?

On what grounds? Sure, an employer can fire you just for looking at them as well, but it also means you'll be eligable for unemployment when you're fired for this or any other issue not directly related to your job performance. Let's not forget, these are students, not employees. The communication was outside of the school, and it certainly can't be mistaken to be a school sponsored statement, which means she is free to say as she pleases.

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
-- The Friends of Voltaire, 1906

"First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the Communists.."--Pastor Martin Niemöller

Two great quotes that go great together, sadly they're lost in some of you.
 
2008-03-06 01:22:06 PM
No doubt I'm a douche for going against the popular fark vote, but I think the school was right. If you trash talk the echelon above you, in her case, the school, then you shouldn't hold a make believe position of official responsibility. Do you think a city council would keep around a treasurer that called them a bunch of douche bags?

/Bag-o-douche
 
2008-03-06 01:39:04 PM
"First they came for the Jews told a girl in high school she can't be class secretary any more and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew being a high school secretary is meaningless. Then they came for the Communists.." -- Pastor Martin Niemöller

The Constitution will not come crashing down because this precious snowflake was punished for being a brat.
 
2008-03-06 02:04:44 PM
Hoboclown: "First they came for the Jews told a girl in high school she can't be class secretary any more and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew being a high school secretary is meaningless. Then they came for the Communists.." -- Pastor Martin Niemöller

The Constitution will not come crashing down because this precious snowflake was punished for being a brat.


This is not important because of the girl, it is important because this is the erosion of free speech in action. You should wake up and realize it sooner, rather than later. It happened before, and it will happen again, thanks to people like you who sign away their rights, simply because their opinions are formed by their kneejerk, biased reaction to irrelevancies, instead of essential facts. That's why my first quote was important.
 
2008-03-06 02:04:50 PM
Hoboclown: "First they came for the Jews told a girl in high school she can't be class secretary any more and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew being a high school secretary is meaningless. Then they came for the Communists.." -- Pastor Martin Niemöller

The Constitution will not come crashing down because this precious snowflake was punished for being a brat.


That's how it starts. A "Eh, no big deal here," and a "The Constitution will not come crashing down because this previous snowflake was punished for being a brat" there and, before you know it, you're at the bottom of the slippery slope.

Do you really think that it's going to be a big and instantaneous change that will bring the Constitution down? Or does even a minimum of logic and reason tell you that it will be piece by piece.
 
2008-03-06 02:06:59 PM
Jlevine: But not because asshats like chrisjsug630 say Tinker has been weakened.
 
2008-03-06 02:08:36 PM
con't

Nice ad hominem
 
2008-03-06 02:11:49 PM
chrisjsug630: con't

Nice ad hominem


Well, we are having this argument on Fark... Normally in person, I just tell you that your being absurd. Gotta adjust to the forum, man...
 
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