"President Bush ordered the Satellite shot down because it could potentially fall to earth with dangerous toxic fuel. "

Uh, how is shooting it going to prevent the release of the toxic fuel?

IonBeam2: "President Bush ordered the Satellite shot down because it could potentially fall to earth with dangerous toxic fuel. "

Uh, how is shooting it going to prevent the release of the toxic fuel?

Bananarama?.

FTFA:

President Bush ordered the Satellite shot down... Last year, the US, concerned about space weaponry, criticized China for using a missile to destroy a weather satellite.

I love it. Absolutely delicious.

IonBeam2: "President Bush ordered the Satellite shot down because it could potentially fall to earth with dangerous toxic fuel. "

Uh, how is shooting it going to prevent the release of the toxic fuel?

Ha, yeah, I would think it would facilitate the spreading of said toxic fuel.

Isn't this going to create more space debris/junk? Or is it low enough to burn up on re-entry. Need more info...stupid article

icanhazstapler: I would think it would facilitate the spreading of said toxic fuel.

Maybe it's projected to fall on the USA with all that toxic material, and by blowing it into a cloud of debris, they're hoping to "share the love" with everyone else.

johnny_vegas: always 11h17m: johnny_vegas: always 11h17m: Mostly b/c crap falls from the sky all the time and we rarely worry about it. Seriously, what percentage of the Earth's surface is heavily populated? Say 5-15%, a conservative guess. 1 in 10 odds of small debris hits doesn't bother NASA or the gov't most of the time. And when you consider we know the trajectory of a falling debris chunk, the odds grow to 1 in 8-on-its-side.

I'll buy that, that's a good argument.

Thanks. I pulled it out of my arse, so that was a self-esteem booster right there.

those are the best ones!

Well, if you're moderately informed, you can infer enough from context to make almost any argument convincing and generally correct enough to satisfy all but experts and to reach beyond the realm of bullshiat. See, I just did it again.

Let's hop it doesn't hit Israel. The Israeli reprisals on the Gaza Strip would be "biblical".

THX 1138: FTFA:

President Bush ordered the Satellite shot down... Last year, the US, concerned about space weaponry, criticized China for using a missile to destroy a weather satellite.

I love it. Absolutely delicious.

Well, the difference that the article failed to mention is that China blew up a satellite in orbit, meaning all the debris is still in orbit up there, posing a danger to other satellites. The U.S. is waiting until our satellite begins re-entry, at which time we'll (attempt to) blow it to hell.

johnny_vegas: here

Were you? I was at the luau on Oahu, did you go to that?

...Assuming you were on the Decatur, that is...

IonBeam2: Uh, how is shooting it going to prevent the release of the toxic fuel?

It's going to cause it.

potee
Well, the difference that the article failed to mention is that China blew up a satellite in orbit, meaning all the debris is still in orbit up there, posing a danger to other satellites. The U.S. is waiting until our satellite begins re-entry, at which time we'll (attempt to) blow it to hell.

You're right of course, but there's no use trying to educate some people.

The SkySweeper is on standby!

IonBeam2: Uh, how is shooting it going to prevent the release of the toxic fuel?

Disperse the hydrazine 100 miles up, instead of on the ground.

1. Toxic waste (Hydrazine) threat
2. sooper sekrit spy technologies
3. hazard of hitting someone house
4. realworld test for an anti-sat system

All of those are real reasons to try to shoot it down. It doesn't matter which. If we had this technology when Skylab was coming down, we would have tried it.

I expect this will eventually become standard procedure. At the end of their life, satellites DO come down. They run out of fuel, break down, or otherwise fark up. Why not bring it down over the ocean, instead of hoping it doesn't hit somewhere expensive or politically hazardous?

Shoot it.

Kyoowashugi: johnny_vegas: here

Were you? I was at the luau on Oahu, did you go to that?

at Germaines? yes

According to Wiki the boiling point of hydrazine is 242F, a little above water. All I know about re-entering space craft is that they burn up due to atmospheric friction. Metal burns at a lot higher than 242F. I seem to remember from HS iron melting at 2200F or something like that.

Wouldn't the hydrazine just vaporize and disperse? Again from Wiki, it seems like a bad idea to drink it or use it for a facial, but vapor 100 miles up?

Busting up this bus sized space thingee into basketball sized chunks seems to gurantee that nothing important would survive re-entry, where as the rear half of the thing would probibilly arrive intact if left alone.

Anyway, It's thairs they can do as they like with it. I'd like to watch the shootdown though.

RED HERRING

Feldspar Q. Walrustitty: RED HERRING

BLUE SHARK

johnny_vegas: Kyoowashugi: johnny_vegas: here

Were you? I was at the luau on Oahu, did you go to that?

at Germaines? yes

Small farking world. I had been wondering why you guys were in Hawaii...that kind of answered my question :-P

Kyoowashugi: johnny_vegas: Kyoowashugi: johnny_vegas: here

Were you? I was at the luau on Oahu, did you go to that?

at Germaines? yes

Small farking world. I had been wondering why you guys were in Hawaii...that kind of answered my question :-P

That is pretty amazing!

"Last year, the US, concerned about space weaponry, criticized China for using a missile to destroy a weather satellite."

So the Chinese did this last year... no big deal then...


/don't farking miss
//seriously don't miss

johnny_vegas: Kyoowashugi: johnny_vegas: Kyoowashugi: johnny_vegas: here

Were you? I was at the luau on Oahu, did you go to that?

at Germaines? yes

Small farking world. I had been wondering why you guys were in Hawaii...that kind of answered my question :-P

That is pretty amazing!

Get a room, sheesh.

smells_like_meat: Wouldn't the hydrazine just vaporize and disperse?

Apparently, the hydrazine tank from the Columbia shuttle survived all the way to the ground. It was mostly empty, but still in one piece.

Take the shot.

smells_like_meat All I know about re-entering space craft is that they burn up due to atmospheric friction.

The outer skin burns, sure. But the inside parts can remain surprisingly intact. Below is an image of the nosewheel from Columbia. Note that the tires haven't melted. The fear is that the fuel tanks on the satellite will survive reentry, but then break open when they land in some walmart parking lot somewhere.

2wolves: Air Force?

Yeah, good luck with that.

They've done it before. Where ya been the last 25 years?

NektonGP /don't farking miss
//seriously don't miss

I'm not really sure how to interpret your statement, but just FYI in case you didn't know, the missile they're going to fire at it will be on a ballistic trajectory that would cause it to land in the pacific ocean if they miss. But then, if they miss, the satellite might still come down some place else.

All I'm saying is, there's really no down side to trying. IF they hit it, great. If they miss, it's not like they have made the situation worse.

I want to know what the odds are. I am pretty sure the bet is gonna go against the US hitting it with the first shot. Gotta call my bookie.

Man On Pink Corner So, why is the US deploying its most-advanced spy satellite technology to observe nothing even remotely interesting anywhere on Earth... except for New York and California?

Somewhere, a third grade teacher is weeping softly at the thought that one of her students didn't learn that the Earth spins.

USA 193 (new window)

Tofu: But then, if they miss, the satellite might still come down some place else.

No matter what we do, it WILL come down next month. With this shot, we have a real possibility of determining where and how it comes down.

Take the shot.

YouPeopleAreCrazy: Tofu:

Thanks for the interesting info. I hope they do take the shot. The previously posted Aegis video was interesting. It would seem that a shoot down of something this large on a predictable trajectory would be a sure thing.

smells_like_meat: predictable trajectory

There is the rub, or at least some of it.

I say let it come down on its own. Maybe it'll land on Osama Bin Laden's head and kill him so it's not a total waste of money.

Man On Pink Corner For all I know, this thing was in geosynchronous orbit.

If it was in geosynchronous orbit, then why would it be in danger of reentering the atmosphere? Geosynchronous altitude is well the hell up there, outside the van allen belts, higher than the space shuttle can go.

Shocktopus: Get a room, sheesh.

Grouch. No sailor jokes, either, unless you've got some new material that we haven't heard yet :-D

Man On Pink Corner: For all I know, this thing was in geosynchronous orbit.

The image you posted above shows the satellite's path becoming slightly off in the North Atlantic. I'm no expert, but it seems that if it were in geosynchronous orbit, then the satellite's flight path would be a single unbroken wave shape.

Man On Pink Corner: So, why is the US deploying its most-advanced spy satellite technology to observe nothing even remotely interesting anywhere on Earth... except for New York and California?

Maybe it wasn't supposed to watch the earth...any other satellites of interest in close to the same orbit? Perhaps ones from other countries?

Man On Pink Corner So, why is the US deploying its most-advanced spy satellite technology to observe nothing even remotely interesting anywhere on Earth... except for New York and California?

Maybe they needed coverage out in the Atlantic, the Pacific, and the Indian Ocean? Maybe it went dark before they finalized the orbit? And of course we need to keep a close eye on those Kiwis...

Man On Pink Corner: For all I know, this thing was in geosynchronous orbit.

From what I've heard on this subject, the spy satellites are in polar orbit, launched from Vandenberg AFB.

nashBridges Maybe it wasn't supposed to watch the earth...any other satellites of interest in close to the same orbit? Perhaps ones from other countries?

oh god. See what you've done Pink Corner? Ignorance is contagious!

the earth is turning underneath the satellite's orbit - it's present inclination is exactly what you'd expect for a spy sat.

kenmce: we need to keep a close eye on those Kiwis...

kenmce may be on to something here..damn Peter Jackson, Russell Crowe and their ilk.

MrPerfectSU: Man On Pink Corner: For all I know, this thing was in geosynchronous orbit.

The image you posted above shows the satellite's path becoming slightly off in the North Atlantic. I'm no expert, but it seems that if it were in geosynchronous orbit, then the satellite's flight path would be a single unbroken wave shape.

The most common geosynchronous orbit is a geostationary one, for which the flight path would look like a dot.

IonBeam2: Uh, how is shooting it going to prevent the release of the toxic fuel?

Hitting it with a missile breaks it into smaller chunks. Smaller chunks are more likely to burn up completely in the atmosphere, due to a greater surface area/mass ratio.

Tofu: NektonGP /don't farking miss
//seriously don't miss

I'm not really sure how to interpret your statement, but just FYI in case you didn't know, the missile they're going to fire at it will be on a ballistic trajectory that would cause it to land in the pacific ocean if they miss. But then, if they miss, the satellite might still come down some place else.

All I'm saying is, there's really no down side to trying. IF they hit it, great. If they miss, it's not like they have made the situation worse.

Well I guess I was being a little too subtle. There is a downside to missing this thing. The Chinese hit one, if we miss it, that would be bad.

I've put up a .KMZ file that shows a NOTAM that was published today that it would seem has a lot to do with the shootdown, and where the bits are expected to fall.

Take a look. (new window)

That is all.