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(BBC)   London 4x4 drivers may pay £5 per gallon for their fuel, but they'll soon pay another £25 for the fumes that fuel produces. That's per day, by the way   (news.bbc.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Asinine  
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6692 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Feb 2008 at 10:15 AM (8 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-02-12 10:17:24 AM  
Why do you need a 4x4 in a flat city with a mild climate?
 
2008-02-12 10:19:03 AM  
Quantum Apostrophe: Why do you need a 4x4 in a flat city with a mild climate?

why do you need to buy an extra car if you go 4x4 driving on weekends?

unlike you some people can only afford 1 car.
 
2008-02-12 10:19:24 AM  
Are there any true democracies left in the world people can move to?

The US and the UK threw their country into the shiater.
 
2008-02-12 10:19:26 AM  
I think it's fantastic, no one needs those vehicles. If you're not a contractor or someone else with the need to haul a lot of heavy equipment, you should be taxed to death for enviornmental harm and in the case of the U.S, driving up dependance on foreign oil. I was behind a girl this morning on campus- a single freaking college girl- driving a toyota landcruiser with a v8. It's completely asinine.
 
2008-02-12 10:20:03 AM  
Quantum Apostrophe: Why do you need a 4x4 in a flat city with a mild climate?

Maybe those crazy Brits sometimes just want to TAKE IT TO THE X-TREME!!
 
2008-02-12 10:20:47 AM  
Genevieve Marie: I was behind a girl this morning on campus- a single freaking college girl- driving a toyota landcruiser with a v8. It's completely asinine.

Would the V6 have made it better?
 
2008-02-12 10:20:58 AM  
Quantum Apostrophe: Why do you need a 4x4 in a flat city with a mild climate?
I hear it rains a lot...

FTFA: The CO2 emissions from the most high-powered 4x4s and sports cars can be up to four times as great as the least polluting cars.

I think it is important to mention SPORTS CARS. Also, will this include all models of sports cars and Trucks/SUVs or only certain high polluter models?

Also important to mention that people normally pay 8 pounds to enter london regardless, so this is just 17 pounds more. And you only have to pay upon going in, it isn't really daily unless you commute to London daily or something.
 
2008-02-12 10:21:00 AM  
Genevieve Marie: I think it's fantastic, no one needs those vehicles. If you're not a contractor or someone else with the need to haul a lot of heavy equipment, you should be taxed to death for enviornmental harm and in the case of the U.S, driving up dependance on foreign oil. I was behind a girl this morning on campus- a single freaking college girl- driving a toyota landcruiser with a v8. It's completely asinine.

This, with minor spelling adjustments
 
2008-02-12 10:21:01 AM  
bonesdilligaf: why do you need to buy an extra car if you go 4x4 driving on weekends?

unlike you some people can only afford 1 car.


Why the hell do you need to go 4x4 driving in the first place? It's a hobby and it's one that's bad for the enviornment and bad for foreign policy.

They should have imposed strict fuel standards in the 70's when it would have helped.
 
2008-02-12 10:21:32 AM  
bonesdilligaf: Quantum Apostrophe: Why do you need a 4x4 in a flat city with a mild climate?

why do you need to buy an extra car if you go 4x4 driving on weekends?

unlike you some people can only afford 1 car.


Well then you won't be able to afford a congestion charge and will get a more fuel efficient vehicle. Problem solved. Or you could take the train/bus into work.

/incentives like that work on the po'
//not so much on the fat cats
 
2008-02-12 10:21:41 AM  
cool a global warming thread!

I just read about how in California they are going to cut down trees because the blocked some solar panels during part of the day.

That made me laugh.

This is just asinine. What do they do with all the money? do they buy carbon offsets?
 
2008-02-12 10:21:44 AM  
mtman900: This, with minor spelling adjustments

Sorry, on phone :)
 
2008-02-12 10:21:53 AM  
bonesdilligaf: Quantum Apostrophe: Why do you need a 4x4 in a flat city with a mild climate?

why do you need to buy an extra car if you go 4x4 driving on weekends?

unlike you some people can only afford 1 car.


Well then just get Quantum Apostrophe to buy you a car.

Seriously though, what a lame argument. If you can only afford one car, then you probably can't afford to go 4x4 driving at the weekend. If you need it for rural use, then you probably don't live in the centre of London.
 
2008-02-12 10:22:08 AM  
If you can afford an expensive 4x4, you can afford to pay 25 pounds a day.

Also, there is something called ostentatious consumption. "Hey look at me. I make so much more money than you, I'll just pay this fee with pocket change."
 
2008-02-12 10:23:01 AM  
Genevieve Marie: Why the hell do you need to go 4x4 driving in the first place? It's a hobby and it's one that's bad for the enviornment and bad for foreign policy.

They should have imposed strict fuel standards in the 70's when it would have helped.


Awww, someone's opinion of fun differs from yours, and you think they are wrong. How cute.
 
2008-02-12 10:23:10 AM  
I was just reading that in the late 1500's Catholics had to pay £20 a month to not attend anglican services. That's like a brazilian in today's terms, to not go to church.
 
2008-02-12 10:23:56 AM  
Jeez! What's next? A BBQ tax?

i219.photobucket.com
 
2008-02-12 10:24:10 AM  
Look at all the retards in England...
 
2008-02-12 10:24:24 AM  
Genevieve Marie: I think it's fantastic, no one needs those vehicles. If you're not a contractor or someone else with the need to haul a lot of heavy equipment, you should be taxed to death for enviornmental harm and in the case of the U.S, driving up dependance on foreign oil. I was behind a girl this morning on campus- a single freaking college girl- driving a toyota landcruiser with a v8. It's completely asinine.

And you drive. Why don't you take the bus? I bet you were driving alone, too. If you're not a taxi driver and hauling three or four people, you should be taxed to death for environmental harm and in the case of the US, driving up dependance on foreign oil.
 
2008-02-12 10:24:33 AM  
PancakeBunny: I was just reading that in the late 1500's Catholics had to pay £20 a month to not attend anglican services. That's like a brazilian in today's terms, to not go to church.

Ha ha, the Brits have always been teh fascists.

/stupid proddies
 
2008-02-12 10:24:45 AM  
Genevieve Marie: Sorry, on phone :)

heh, apology accepted, but be more careful next time you type and talk.

In all seriousness, there is a hidden cost that these people burden everyone with. I'd be 100% for this plan if they could
1. Prove that 25 pounds (rough equivalent of $50, I guess) is not overkill
2. The money went straight to environmental causes
 
2008-02-12 10:25:58 AM  
That is awesome not asinine. For 99.99999% of people there is no reason to have such a wasteful vehicle (no I dont want to hear why you are an exception to that)

Anything on a truck frame (including SUVs) should be taxed quite heavily unless it is for actual work purposes, ie not driving the kids to soccer practice.
 
2008-02-12 10:26:01 AM  
bonesdilligaf:
why do you need to buy an extra car if you go 4x4 driving on weekends?

Which again brings you back to the original question "Why do you need a 4x4 in a flat city with a mild climate?"

/snarky MF
 
2008-02-12 10:26:07 AM  
Suprises me California hasn't done something like that yet.

25(insert currency unit here) a day seems a bit exessive thou.
 
2008-02-12 10:27:15 AM  
Glad someone realises that we can't keep burning through finite resources at such a reckless pace.
 
2008-02-12 10:27:16 AM  
Mordac Lord of Unholy Fury: Quantum Apostrophe: Why do you need a 4x4 in a flat city with a mild climate?

Maybe those crazy Brits sometimes just want to TAKE IT TO THE X-TREME!!


I've been there, and the biggest car I saw for four months was a Jeep Grand Cherokee.

Coming back to the US and driving next to H4s made me sad. People here think it's their God-given right to drive a massive truck because they like the way it looks, not because they need it for any real reason. And no, taking your new speed boat to the lake for the weekend does NOT constitute a "need".
 
2008-02-12 10:28:15 AM  
corbell: And you drive. Why don't you take the bus? I bet you were driving alone, too. If you're not a taxi driver and hauling three or four people, you should be taxed to death for environmental harm and in the case of the US, driving up dependance on foreign oil.

Mordac Lord of Unholy Fury: Awww, someone's opinion of fun differs from yours, and you think they are wrong. How cute.

This is not merely a difference of opinion, it's a serious problem. It isn't merely a personal choice; by driving these vehicles one is adding to a serious problem; in this case, pollution.

Also, you will be hard pressed to find someone in America with no carbon footprint. There is a notion, however, of what's overkill to do basic errands, and needing 10 gallons to the mile to transport you and your purse puppy is a little ridiculous.
 
2008-02-12 10:29:51 AM  
So Londoners don't want to have high polluting cars driving through the city. How is this asinine? It won't make any difference anyway, since no one drives their personal cars downtown anyway due to the 8 pound fee.
 
2008-02-12 10:30:27 AM  
bonesdilligaf: Quantum Apostrophe: Why do you need a 4x4 in a flat city with a mild climate?

why do you need to buy an extra car if you go 4x4 driving on weekends?

unlike you some people can only afford 1 car.


Why not get one's fat ass hiking?
 
2008-02-12 10:30:32 AM  
Beatle_Matt: bonesdilligaf:
why do you need to buy an extra car if you go 4x4 driving on weekends?

Which again brings you back to the original question "Why do you need a 4x4 in a flat city with a mild climate?"

/snarky MF


Okay ignore the 4x4 and RTFA. Sports cars are also affected. For insurance reasons, this includes things like the Chevy Cobalt SS which can be yours for under 20 grand. Except it also gets more than 20 miles per gallon, so should it really be taxed?

If they are to impose this tax it should purely be on emissions, rather like emissions testing here in the states. Instead of purely based on the type of car, they will be accurately targeting polluters. Just remember some SUVs and Trucks are coming in Hybrid now, and are still 4x4, but get more than 30 mpg.

This law, like most of these half-assed ideas is not really doing what they intend it to do.
 
2008-02-12 10:31:19 AM  
Why don't they do this to the asshole land yacht owners in the states. It's not like their cars do anything other than suck gas.
 
2008-02-12 10:31:24 AM  
You know that Benjamin Franklin quote about giving up liberty for security? I think it goings to apply to eco-nuts soon.
 
2008-02-12 10:31:47 AM  
mtman900: corbell: And you drive. Why don't you take the bus? I bet you were driving alone, too. If you're not a taxi driver and hauling three or four people, you should be taxed to death for environmental harm and in the case of the US, driving up dependance on foreign oil.

Mordac Lord of Unholy Fury: Awww, someone's opinion of fun differs from yours, and you think they are wrong. How cute.

This is not merely a difference of opinion, it's a serious problem. It isn't merely a personal choice; by driving these vehicles one is adding to a serious problem; in this case, pollution.

Also, you will be hard pressed to find someone in America with no carbon footprint. There is a notion, however, of what's overkill to do basic errands, and needing 10 gallons to the mile to transport you and your purse puppy is a little ridiculous.


What about transporting me and my trouser snake?

/I need a big vehicle for that
//not really :(
 
2008-02-12 10:32:00 AM  
Genevieve Marie, kc987654, epoc_tnac

i accept my argument is lame.

but your telling me i should have this or that instead is lamer.

and this will backfire on you all.

the vehicles you are talking about targeting are the ones that will predominantly be used by the people who work for a living (contractors, and tradesmen) they will afford the costs, because they will pass it on to you the consumer. Delivery costs will rise, so will the price of all goods to cover delivery costs.

so all you tree huggers can cry when that happens too.

/drives a big farking full size suv and drives 4 hours a day in it
//burns wood and oil to heat his house
///sometimes burns wood just for ambiance
 
2008-02-12 10:32:38 AM  
sombreradoraloca: Coming back to the US and driving next to H4s made me sad. People here think it's their God-given right to drive a massive truck because they like the way it looks, not because they need it for any real reason. And no, taking your new speed boat to the lake for the weekend does NOT constitute a "need".

It's seriously impacted foreign policy as well as the environmental concerns, and that really bothers me. I doubt we'd be nearly as involved in the middle east as we are if we didn't depend on their oil. Wonder how closely we'd be dealing with Saudi Arabia if not for oil? Ethically, we shouldn't be trading with them at all but we don't have that option.
 
2008-02-12 10:33:27 AM  
So how much does a semi have to pay?
Seems to me that it should be considerably more than an SUV, because they pollute and congest traffic considerably more.
 
2008-02-12 10:33:45 AM  
mtman900: This is not merely a difference of opinion, it's a serious problem. It isn't merely a personal choice; by driving these vehicles one is adding to a serious problem; in this case, pollution.

I was being serious. I ride the bus every day back and forth to school. It's not always convenient, but it works. If you actually give a shiat about pollution, you'd do the same. Otherwise you're just a frigging hypocrite.

/Not that you're not allowed to be one. I think it's actually encouraged.
 
2008-02-12 10:34:28 AM  
I'm The Foot Farking Master
Look at all the retards in England...


Yes, there must be at least 1 or 2 percent of the retard level of certain US states, like say Oregon, but with a population numbering 65-70 million.
 
2008-02-12 10:34:46 AM  
4x4ing on the weekends? ever see the average 4x4 vehicle go over gravel, the driver treats the vehicle like it's a million dollar piece of china.
 
2008-02-12 10:35:33 AM  
More on it...

Link (new window)

Looks like the VW Beetle is on the list! Damned tanks they are!

Link (new window)

...22% what are they doing about the other 88%?
 
2008-02-12 10:35:33 AM  
Anavrinman: Why don't they do this to the asshole land yacht owners in the states. It's not like their cars do anything other than suck gas.

You haven't seen the number of speeding drunk drivers on the roads her, the sheer size of that land yacht may be the only thing between you and certain death.
 
2008-02-12 10:35:34 AM  
Genevieve Marie: I was behind a girl this morning on campus- a single freaking college girl- driving a toyota landcruiser with a v8. It's completely asinine.


Well on weekends I drive an older SUV, with a V8. I even drive it some on pretty days. Or on days when the roads are bad. The point is that it was paid for several years ago and it hasn't required me to buy a newer one.

19 MPG highway
13 MPG city

Not bad for a 78 model.
 
2008-02-12 10:35:57 AM  
bonesdilligaf: the vehicles you are talking about targeting are the ones that will predominantly be used by the people who work for a living (contractors, and tradesmen) they will afford the costs, because they will pass it on to you the consumer. Delivery costs will rise, so will the price of all goods to cover delivery costs.

so all you tree huggers can cry when that happens too.

/drives a big farking full size suv and drives 4 hours a day in it
//burns wood and oil to heat his house
///sometimes burns wood just for ambiance


Did I not say in my original post that contractors and other people who need to haul heavy equipment are an exception? But people who drive big SUVs purely because they like them are creating massive problems for the country. The option shouldn't have been available to consumers in the first place. Strict fuel standards should have been imposed long ago, and nothing that gets less then 25-27 miles a gallon should be sold at this point.
 
2008-02-12 10:36:04 AM  
Quantumbunny: Quantum Apostrophe: Also important to mention that people normally pay 8 pounds to enter london regardless, so this is just 17 pounds more. And you only have to pay upon going in, it isn't really daily unless you commute to London daily or something.


No. Only the very centre of the city is under Congestion charge, ie, Westminster, the Square Mile and a bit further. You can get right upto Peckham and Bermondsey from the South/south-east without paying the Congestion charge. This isn't "lol make everyone in London who drives a 4x4 pay the charge", this is to target the people who drive big ass SUVs into work. You don't need to and shouldn't do that in London. It's cheaper just to buy a day transit ticket (that covers the subway, all Local trains and buses) for £5-9 depending on whether its peak.


/London Farker
//London Farker driver, but doesn't drive in the city centre.
 
2008-02-12 10:37:16 AM  
Quantumbunny: Okay ignore the 4x4 and RTFA. Sports cars are also affected. For insurance reasons, this includes things like the Chevy Cobalt SS which can be yours for under 20 grand. Except it also gets more than 20 miles per gallon, so should it really be taxed?

If they are to impose this tax it should purely be on emissions, rather like emissions testing here in the states. Instead of purely based on the type of car, they will be accurately targeting polluters. Just remember some SUVs and Trucks are coming in Hybrid now, and are still 4x4, but get more than 30 mpg.



You misread the article. It won't be based on the type of the car, but the amount of emissions. Read it again, especially this sentence:

The CO2 emissions from the most high-powered 4x4s and sports cars can be up to four times as great as the least polluting cars.
 
2008-02-12 10:37:39 AM  
mtman900: Mordac Lord of Unholy Fury: Awww, someone's opinion of fun differs from yours, and you think they are wrong. How cute.

This is not merely a difference of opinion, it's a serious problem. It isn't merely a personal choice; by driving these vehicles one is adding to a serious problem; in this case, pollution.

Also, you will be hard pressed to find someone in America with no carbon footprint. There is a notion, however, of what's overkill to do basic errands, and needing 10 gallons to the mile to transport you and your purse puppy is a little ridiculous.


Way to take my comment out of context. She wondered aloud how anyone could find Off-roading fun. I responded in a fairly snarky manner by telling her that her idea of fun might be different from another person's idea of fun, and that neither party is necessarily wrong in thinking that way.
 
2008-02-12 10:37:46 AM  
Quantumbunny: Quantum Apostrophe: Why do you need a 4x4 in a flat city with a mild climate?
I hear it rains a lot...

FTFA: The CO2 emissions from the most high-powered 4x4s and sports cars can be up to four times as great as the least polluting cars.

I think it is important to mention SPORTS CARS. Also, will this include all models of sports cars and Trucks/SUVs or only certain high polluter models?

Also important to mention that people normally pay 8 pounds to enter london regardless, so this is just 17 pounds more. And you only have to pay upon going in, it isn't really daily unless you commute to London daily or something.


Also remember to tax older cars even more. A 1995 subcompact will pollute much more than a 2005 Hummer.
 
2008-02-12 10:38:27 AM  
bonesdilligaf: unlike you some people can only afford 1 car

Then perhaps this measure will encourage them to choose a car that actually works for their lifestyle, rather than the one with the bestest rimz.
 
2008-02-12 10:38:46 AM  
bonesdilligaf: so all you tree huggers can cry when that happens too.

This issue just so happens to bring a major failing of capitalism to light: the inability to take hidden costs into account. When one purchases a huge SUV and uses it for meaningless errands, capitalism can only charge you for the obvious costs. If there is a cost which is not immediately obvious, it will have to be supported at some later time.

Cigarettes are another example of this. The tobacco and paper are really a very small cost compared to the cost of treating cancer later on.

It is adult to levy a tax to make the prices reflect the situation more accurately, as long as the tax fund is used to remedy the poor consequences.
 
2008-02-12 10:38:57 AM  
atlanta_ufo: Anavrinman: Why don't they do this to the asshole land yacht owners in the states. It's not like their cars do anything other than suck gas.

You haven't seen the number of speeding drunk drivers on the roads her, the sheer size of that land yacht may be the only thing between you and certain death.


You mean you wouldn't feel comfortable driving around I-285 in traffic at 375mph in a Prius? Come on.
 
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