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(MSNBC)   Next time you want to take hostages, here's what NOT to do. Thanks to the media for making terrorists that much better   ( divider line
    More: Asinine  
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174 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Oct 2002 at 9:32 PM (15 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

47 Comments     (+0 »)
2002-10-26 09:33:47 PM  
2002-10-26 09:34:27 PM  
I'm pretty sure any terrorist mastermind with intelligence would advise their minions about cell phones, even without this article.
2002-10-26 09:36:44 PM  
I'm sure the calls were under pressure, but...

Honestly, these guys were lookimg to kill people.

If you say otherwise. I call shenanigans.
2002-10-26 09:40:43 PM  
Obviously terrorists haven't learned yet--if not for cell-phones, those terrorists wouldn't have been overpowered by the passengers in that airplane and crashed into a field in Pennsylvania. Imagine what you could do with a laptop computer.
2002-10-26 09:42:15 PM  
In the future, please use the
img.fark.netView Full Size
tag, and refer to them as asshats. TIA.
2002-10-26 09:45:21 PM  
Russians. Can't keep a stable government, can't use some FVCKING INTELLIGENCE when holding hostages...
2002-10-26 09:45:57 PM  
2002-10-26 09:46:32 PM  
Imagine what you could do with a laptop computer.

Post on fark?
2002-10-26 09:47:01 PM  
Yes, alot of criminals use the media to plot their schemes. /not

This article is pap to make people feel good while at the same time making them think they are smart because they'll all go "HEY! TERRORISTS KNOW THE SECRETS NOW!"

We'll all have bionic implants soon enough so the terrorist will just have to off the hostages right away, which of course destroys their bargaining chips, which of course makes the whole thing pointless. In the future: No more hostage takings!
2002-10-26 09:47:17 PM  
Terrorists can also be reffered to as Assclowns, or shiatfarks.
2002-10-26 09:48:35 PM  
Only if you are one of the people who make idle threats and live with your mother.
2002-10-26 09:49:17 PM  
Let's get this straight: she lives with me
2002-10-26 09:50:22 PM  
2002-10-26 09:54:06 PM  
I just would have loved to be in the room when they all took shots of WODKA before releasing the sleeping gas......protocol you know, in the days of Stalin or Cell phones!
2002-10-26 09:57:13 PM  
It would be much easier if someone just wrote a hostage taking/seige faq.

You'd think with all the crazy people around the world who do it, someone would have done it by now.
2002-10-26 10:03:33 PM  
leave it m$nbc to destroy the world
2002-10-26 10:08:23 PM  
Luckily, no terrorists will see this since nobody watches MSNBC.
2002-10-26 10:11:54 PM  
the media reporting everything like on what the sniper is doing right, war plans, etc...remind me of a classic SNL sketch, where kevin nealon is a gulf war general answering the media's questions...

If there was something that would really demoralize the troops, what would it be?
What would you say the weakest point of the US forces is, and how would you exploit it?

and my favorite:

Yes, Farud Hashami, Baghdad Times. Where are your troops, and can I go and count them.
2002-10-26 10:15:37 PM  
[FSB, a successor to the Soviet-era KGB]were on the other end listening and gathering information crucial to ending the hostage crisis...

Hm-hm. So you see, in the formerly Communist Russia now The Ultra-Cool Hipper Russia, PHONE STILL CALLS YOU!!!
2002-10-26 10:17:17 PM  
Stupid fvcking m$nbc and their stupid fvcking gossip......
2002-10-26 10:31:49 PM  
I liked how the headline says that cell phones saved the day and then after the first paragraph there's an ad for cell phones. Very classy.
2002-10-26 10:33:30 PM  
You guys probably thought that old Saturday Night Live skit where the Gulf War reporters were asking, "where are our greatest vulnerabilities and how could the enemy best exploit them?" was supposed to be hyperbole. Now you know better.
2002-10-26 10:36:20 PM  
What annoys me about TV shows is that they never utilize cell phones

like on Buffy, "We've got to go find her and warn her, you look at the library i'll look at the school etc."

call her on her phone you nitwits!
2002-10-26 10:36:22 PM  
Thank heaven for the media, without them what would newborn terrorists do?
2002-10-26 10:44:32 PM  
In non-capitalistic Russia, cell phones fark up your plans!
2002-10-26 10:50:25 PM  
Someone would have gotten word to the "police" somehow, its just a matter of how. Even though they disabled it now, there used to be something in Moscow called like "blinkenlights" or something like that. Basically its the side of a building covered in lights, hooked up to a computer that can turn the lights on or off to spell out messages. That would work pretty well if you wanted to spell out "We are held hostage. Save Us. Thanks, Hostages!" or be like "All your hostages are belong to us. -Terrorists"
2002-10-26 10:57:53 PM  
Sleeping gas?

Mm, obviously not triggerhappy terrorists. Good for them.

The problem with sleeping gas is that it takes time to work, and the clever terrorist boss would notice that all his buds are getting woozy at the same time and start shooting hostages. Aim? Who needs that when you've got AKs?
2002-10-26 11:07:20 PM  
Well, the media is famous for doing this kind of thing. Can't remember which US general said it, think it was Schwartzkopf (sp?), but when they were asked about the impact of media on military ops, he said that "If the media were like they are today back during WWII, we would never have been able to stage Normandy without the Germans getting wind of it, and stopping us cold."
He has a point. And with all the coverage of the sniper, I wonder how many militia nutcases are kitting their cars out with sniper platforms in the trunk now?
2002-10-26 11:20:56 PM  

I think Kibo was saying to call the media asshats, not the terrorists. Afterall, they've already won and we shouldn't insult our masters.
2002-10-26 11:35:50 PM  
This report doesn't help anyone plan a future terrorist attack. Anyone stupid enough to think that the police weren't on the other end of some of the phone calls are stupid enough to fail and get killed by the police, like these guys. This story was hardly giving away valuable intelligence information. You people are overreacting.
2002-10-26 11:48:50 PM  
Yeah, because this method was so overwhelmingly effective this time. Only 90 civilians dead! Fifty rebels got away!

Yeah...this is really crucial tactical info here.
2002-10-26 11:57:30 PM  
Fifty didn't get away, fifty were killed. Learn to read.
2002-10-27 12:48:05 AM  
well, I learned to make mail bombs from watching the discovery channel. They had a special on them, and showed (in great detail) how to manufacture mail bombs, from making the explosive material from easily aquired household materials, to including shrapnel in a manner which will inflict the most damage, to making an effective trigger device so its sure to explode when they open the package. And they were even kind enough to explain which materials are the most effective for the lowest cost.

A lot of good advice. If anyone wanted to make a mail bomb, and tried to figure it out on their own, they would have made a lot of mistakes, but if they managed to catch this show, they would be guaranteed a flawless kill every time.

why they decided I need to know all of this, I dont know, but now its aquired knowledge.
2002-10-27 12:57:40 AM  
Bad CRC: They could get that information on the internet too, I doubt you believe the net should be shut down. People can also learn how to do many bad things from many bad sources. Reporting on their existence is not the same as promoting them.
2002-10-27 01:09:04 AM  
Whoever wrote the headline, go shoot yourself in the nuts. You're an idiot. Oh, and guess what? There's a man with a hook for a hand hanging around outside your car.
2002-10-27 01:12:16 AM  
(now I guess I wait for people to accuse me of being a troll)
The reason I say this is because I do not believe that a damned MSNBC article is going to change the face of terrorism forever. If I was a terrorist with half a brain, I'd be able to figure out that if my hostages were making cell phone calls that maybe (and just maybe) there were cops listening and gathering info on the situation.
2002-10-27 01:20:10 AM  
"If I was a terrorist with half a brain, I'd be able to figure out"...

hah, terrorists? half a brain? Shirley you gest? The thing is that most terrorists don't have half a brain. People give them too much credit. These kind of people think that running into a bus whilst wired with explosives is a good idea!

If they did sit down for at least 30 seconds they could figure out not to allow people to use cell phones... but then again, all they really have to do is read a little news.

...for whatever thats worth.
2002-10-27 01:20:41 AM  
Exactly. If the media hadn't told me about phone taps I wouldn't know I couldn't anonymously phone in bomb threats either.
2002-10-27 01:20:56 AM  
Betcha a dollar that most terrorists (at least the ones who plan, not the ones who are ordered to go kill themselves somewhere) are a lot more up to date on the news that you probably are. Something like terrorism is heavily reliant on outside factors, I would imagine that they would want to keep track of that.
2002-10-27 01:21:50 AM  
While the media people are like unto sharks in a feeding frenzy whenever something like this occurs, read the article again. It's the people who leak this sort of crap to the media that I'd like to take out and ah, "take out..."

Reporters are bottom feeders (with some exceptions) and the name of the game is to get coverage - to get hits, to get the big numbers that justify charging the advertisers more money for their ads!

But it's the politicians who leak the info to the media.
2002-10-27 01:21:57 AM  
Hmm...Now my post looks odd since I am responding to flibertigibbet's post whose is after me for somereason. Oh well.
2002-10-27 01:33:40 AM  
The thing is that most terrorists don't have half a brain.
Betcha a dollar most terrorists also don't visit MSNBC.
2002-10-27 02:57:03 AM  
Oh, fer...they expected this. If anything, the Chechens made their point. Granted, the U.S. media was a bit preoccupied, but before this standoff, who really knew or cared about what was happening 'over there'? In any case, allowing captives to use cell phones is a double-edged sword; they took the risk that crucial information would leak out while banking on the idea that communication would make things up close and personal, making it that much more difficult for the Russian forces to forget the fact that every hostage had a family to go home to. Bottom line: it didn't work. It's sad that so many lives were lost, but good for the Russian special forces. Who knows how that tactic would have worked in the U.S.
2002-10-27 03:01:03 AM  
Apart from giving information to the Russian police by cell phone, I'm interested to know if the hostages tried to organize a resistance. Has there been any news on that? Maybe that's the real secret being kept from the media.

I'd have coordinated 60 of the strongest hostages (keep in mind the Russia has a lot of strong men and women and there were 800 of them to select from) to position themselves close to the terrorists. Then, on a pre-arranged signal, they would all simultaneously twist the terrorists' heads off like those twist-off bottle caps.

If you think that sounds like a stupid plan, let's hear something better... Keep in mind that 90 hostages were killed in the rescue operation and all of them could have EASILY been killed if the Special Forces had taken only a few more seconds than it did.

If there was no resistance planning by the hostages, they must not have internalized the lesson of the passengers on Flight 93.
2002-10-27 05:00:14 AM  
RE: Shkale
"I'm interested to know if the hostages tried to organize a resistance."

Thats what triggered the police attack. After 2 hostages wwere shot and some tried to break trough and the chechens opened fire (wich naturraly only created more panic) the special forces had to move in to prevent some hot-shot from blowing the whole thing up. They used some kind of gas and finished off most of the terrorists strapped with explosives before they could wake up. Unfortunatly alot of hostages died from that gas or went into coma.. about 750 made it out alive but 90 died (from bullets and gas).
2002-10-27 05:34:39 AM  

Thanks for the explanation. That was resistance, but I meant an organized resistance, with a plan.

Apart from attempting individual escape, the only way out of that situation would have been to overpower all of the terrorists simultaneously while preventing a single one of the terrorists from detonating themself or the building.

On second thought, it would have been a better idea to assign 3 or 4 strong people to each terrorist. You can't be too careful: one person to hold each of the terrorist's arms while the twisting is happening, one to squeeze the air out the terrrost's lungs so they can't scream, and one to twist.
2002-10-27 07:55:56 AM  
not so smart: do you know whether the terrorists had radio controls for some of the bombs? some of the terrorists were bound to be out of reach. and it would just take one to trigger a large ass bomb in the middle of everything and blow the whole building up.
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