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(Breitbart.com)   Israeli soldiers escalate tensions in the Middle East, by mooning Palestinians   (breitbart.com) divider line 437
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6865 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Feb 2008 at 6:08 AM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-02-04 10:26:26 AM  
log_jammin: Sammy Jenkins: I love Jews, but Israel is full of war criminals.

and brown people


Hey, Jesus was brown too. It's just some wack US culture that makes him magically white.
 
2008-02-04 10:29:33 AM  
farkingatwork: wack US culture that makes him magically white.

eh?
 
2008-02-04 10:32:58 AM  
Jon Snow: If you do not like my posts, you are free to ignore them. I am not violating the FarQ and am advocating freedom and equality. Those that find it offensive should probably do some soul searching to see why this causes them anger.

I searched my soul and determined that your posts cause me anger because they advocate the liberation of suicide bombers.
 
2008-02-04 10:33:12 AM  
log_jammin: Thats what I was going to say about your opinion on the IDF girls

They don't make me mad at all. Care to explain?

img206.imageshack.us
 
2008-02-04 10:33:22 AM  
How many threads are the same pictures of IDF girls reposted ad nauseam?

I was thinking that your post more resembled ultraholland's posting of the same handful of hot IDF chicks everyone's seen a million times already, myself.

The difference between your post and ultraholland's being, people WANT to look at hot chicks, whereas they might not want to compare the plight of the Palestinians to that of American black people during the Civil Rights Era.

The civil rights leaders of that era didn't bomb anyone, of course. But you know- neither do most Palestinians, hence the fundamental injustice of collective punishment.

The Gaza blockade is unjust, counter productive, bad PR and possibly downright stupid. I fear that it, like the useless bombing of busloads of Israeli children, is nothing more than a twisted feel good measure that appeals to the petulant sadist that lurks inside most of us.
 
2008-02-04 10:33:48 AM  
NeuroticMan: but in 1949, didn't the UN decide to start plunking millions of people onto land that was already occupied by someone else?


Actually, that's not even close to accurate. Over a hundred years ago more Jews (I say more because there were already those there, which had been there for thousands of years) started to move into the territory and buy up unwanted bogs and swamps (at exorbitantly high prices, thank you very much) in an attempt to escape the progroms (mass killings, in intent if not in scale to the holocaust) of Eastern Europe. Over the next fifty years waves of Jewish immigrants (or Aliyahs)came into the then Turkish controlled territories.

When the British won it from the Turks in the first World War they closed all Jewish immigration with their "White Papers," because they wanted to appease the local Arab populations (which had at that point already started their own forms of progroms against the 500,000 Jews in the territory.) Then comes WWII, and no country in the world will take the Jews, so 6 million of the 9 million European Jews were massacred. This prompted, before the War, a massive movement called Aliyah Bet (illegal immigration) to smuggle as many Jews out of Germany and then out of Nazi controlled Europe as possible.

Finally, two years after the end of WWII the general assembly suggested a two state solution (one that gave Israel a third of their current territory) for the area. The Arabs rejected it, like every time two states is suggested, and the Israelis accepted it. Then, when Israel declared its independence five Arab countries attacked it, and from the aftermath you have, more or less, the current situation.

Mini History Lesson
 
2008-02-04 10:34:17 AM  
NeuroticMan: While I certainly don't condone terrorism, what I don't understand is why people don't see the Palestinian's point of view on this one. I'm not a history major, but in 1949, didn't the UN decide to start plunking millions of people onto land that was already occupied by someone else?

Half and half. Jews had been living in the area, and immigrating into the area for decades previous. And the Arabs and Jews had been fighting pretty much the whole time as well. In the 20's Britain was mandated to calm down Palestine in preparation for a Jewish state, and there was a mass exodus from Germany in the 1940's, for obvious reasons, which lead to the official formation of the country in '48(?) It's not nearly as black and white as both sides would like us all to believe.
 
2008-02-04 10:35:30 AM  
log_jammin: Sammy Jenkins: I love Jews, but Israel is full of war criminals.

and brown people


Wow. There's some really thoughtful discussion going on here.
 
2008-02-04 10:36:28 AM  
Free trip to Isreal? Will they issue me a FN-FAL to tote? (aka romat)
 
2008-02-04 10:36:48 AM  
Mr.Zemme: Mini History Lesson

...And knowing is half the battle!

/Thanks!
 
2008-02-04 10:37:18 AM  
ReverendJasen: Wait, no one has blamed the US yet. You guys are slacking off.

You know if the Palestinians didn't play that whacky suicide bomber game on their xbox 360s non of this would have happened.
 
2008-02-04 10:37:35 AM  
I would post links to the real incidents of Israeli soldiers raising tensions (shooting little boys, old men, leveling the homes of civilians,) but the US government has finally managed to cut my access to Al Jazeera with those cable cuts.
 
2008-02-04 10:38:04 AM  
The Palestinians get treated like wild dogs. The Israelis get treated like a disease. And yet people seem continually stunned there seems to be no solution.

Someone's going to have to get off the hate-train to murder town eventually. It's probably silly, but I'm sort of hoping for both sides to attain nuclear capability - because for some reason the idea of "both sides become wisps of subatomic particles in a full-force nuclear exchange" seems to force a reevaluation of any conflict. It's certainly moderated the Indian/Pakistani war in some contexts, which I don't think anyone honestly predicted.

All I know is, the killing there will never stop as long as the fatal consequences are deemed "acceptable" by either side. Which means it won't stop - not in my lifetime, not in your lifetime, not in the lives of a dozen generations, without something ridiculously drastic forcing both groups onto the same side of self-preservation somehow. Maybe an alien invasion or something. You'd be surprised how many international disputes wind up solved by the appearance of a common enemy.

/Yeah, don't mind me - sleep-deprived rambling.
//But aliens invading the Middle East might make for a good sci-fi story.
 
2008-02-04 10:38:19 AM  
Jon Snow: They don't make me mad at all. Care to explain?

I'm not going to explain your own post to you.
 
2008-02-04 10:39:20 AM  
Am I the only one who thinks its kind of farked up that we use Tatsuma as some kind of posterboy for the Israeli system?

I mean, everytime one of these threads show up, someone has to make reference to this character as some sort of expert on the subject.

At the same time, people like jon snow or czarangelus become an archetype for everything that is in polar opposition to whatever Tatsuma might say.

Its just leading to people taking one side or the other. Either you think Tatsuma is some sort of Israeli Foreign Policy Expert, or an Asshole. Alternatively, Jon Snow/Czar are either dirty skank hippies, or compassionate individuals.

There is no middle ground in these threads anymore. Its one side or the other with too much flame baiting in between.

Can we not have a normal talk about any of this without it getting full of retarded rants and internet tough guys?

Both sides have something to say. The answer is probably somewhere in the middle.
 
2008-02-04 10:39:24 AM  
farkingatwork: Hey, Jesus was brown too. It's just some wack US culture that makes him magically white.

Er, no, that was instigated by the Catholic Europeans, centuries ago. He has since gotten lighter and lighter as the years pass though.
Give him another 100 years, and he'll be a blonde, blue-eyed Nord.
 
2008-02-04 10:40:23 AM  
No punctuation Natzi has commented on the headline yet?
 
2008-02-04 10:40:55 AM  
OceansideIdaho: swahnhennessy: If Snow's post is considered spam, we need also consider the tired propaganda Tatsuma spews in every thread with a mention of Israel to be spam, as well.

Tired propaganda? He seems a heck of a lot better informed than 99% of the Palestinian supporters.


We have a winner.

Yes, the Pro-Pal 101st Fighting Keyboarders, aka Electronic Intifada, are a seriously delusional bunch. At least the actual Palestinian terrorists1 make no bones about it - they hate Jews, they admit they hate Jews and want to kill them all. And they try.

But the defenders of those same groups, as well as the political/propaganda wings of organizations like Fatah, Hamas, Hezbollah and others spin it and show only the suffering of the women and children, the innocents mauled, wounded, blinded and crippled by Israel.

Unfortunately they tend to gloss over the part where those innocents were wounded because Hamas or some other group stormed into their house, held their family at gunpoint and then started using their house as a missile launching platform. Or when those "innocents" volunteer to have their house turned into a firebase or arms depot.

Then of course there is the highly informative and educational Palestinian children's television shows that teach young Palestinian boys and girls how to be good little martyrs.

Relating to the above of course is "Pallywood" which essentially does nothing but creates situations which will make Israel look bad. Those movies, the ones showing some poor old woman weeping over her fallen son or some other heart-string tugging moment, are then carefully edited and placed in a context that the viewer can only draw one conclusion: that Israel is evil and murders innocent civilians for fun.

This garbage is then packaged and shipped off to the US, to groups like ANSWER and HRW2. They in turn distribute it to their fanbase3 of anarchists and bleeding-hearts, most of whom are spoiled rich kids looking to play revolutionary because daddy is a republican and doesn't love them enough.

Then actual anti-Semitsm comes into play at various stages along the way, some of the support that is found in the US comes from people who do have an actual agenda against the Jewish people. So they further spin the issue and wrap up more people into the sea of propaganda.

So, in summation, most of the people who are "Pro-Palestinian" are either willfully ignorant of the situation and use the issue to further their own anti-Semitic goals or are actually ignorant and have been duped into supporting terrorists for some half understood and vague notion of peace.

Footnotes:
1 When I say Palestinian terrorists, I mean the Palestinians who are, in fact, terrorists. In other words, they actively belong to a terror group, pay their union dues, have the dental plan, etc. I am not saying all Palestinians are terrorists.
2 I am not saying HRW is actively anti-Israeli or anti-Semitic, simply that they are a useful tool to the Pallywood engine. They are essntially idealists and it would be nice if we could live in a world where everyone was committed to peace. Unfortunately, we don't. I am saying ANSWER is actively anti-Israeli and, in my experience with them, actively anti-Semitic as well. They are basically HAMAS' American pollitical wing.
3 To be fair, there are many good people who care about the plight of the Palestinians. They have their hearts in the right place but they really don't think the issue through. A good portion though are, as I say above, spoiled brats who want to get back at mommy and daddy.
 
2008-02-04 10:41:12 AM  
cyber_slacker: Wow. There's some really thoughtful discussion going on here.

your meter needs fixed
 
2008-02-04 10:44:15 AM  
czarangelus: ...but the US government has finally managed to cut my access to Al Jazeera with those cable cuts.
Ah yes, Al-Jazeera, THE source for fair and balanced views on those murderous, baby-eating Jews that control the media in all western countries.
That's like researching Democratic candidates by reading about them on the GOP website.
 
2008-02-04 10:44:53 AM  
SnoreCriminal: Yes, the Pro-Pal 101st Fighting Keyboarders, aka Electronic Intifada, are a seriously delusional bunch. At least the actual Palestinian terrorists1 make no bones about it - they hate Jews, they admit they hate Jews and want to kill them all. And they try.

Directly contradicted by the Der Spiegel article the other day. Palestinians are also svine and roaches, correct? I mean, only svine would want to purge the whole world of one particular race of people. Palestinians don't exist anyway, right?

SnoreCriminal: So, in summation, most of the people who are "Pro-Palestinian" are either willfully ignorant of the situation and use the issue to further their own anti-Semitic goals or are actually ignorant and have been duped into supporting terrorists for some half understood and vague notion of peace.

I would say this characterizes your support for the Israeli junta perfectly.
 
2008-02-04 10:44:55 AM  
Jon Snow: Those that find it offensive should probably do some soul searching to see why this causes them anger.

Good point. It's the occupation that's causing all this. I wish people like Tatsuma would come to grips with this fact. And we know this is true because, before 1967, there was zero -- I'm talking zippy -- murderous attacks on Israelis. Nope, before Independence and before the Six-Day War, it was all hugs and cherries from the Arabs.

What -- that's not quite right?

Well, consider this: time and again in peace talks the Israelis have provoked the Arabs by insisting on things like the "right not to be annihilated." Can you believe it? I haven't seen such Jewish belligerence since they launched those "pogroms of aggression" toward their Eastern European victims.
 
2008-02-04 10:46:02 AM  
ReverendJasen: Ah yes, Al-Jazeera, THE source for fair and balanced views on those murderous, baby-eating Jews that control the media in all western countries.

Do you actually read Al Jazeera? Then shut the Hell up about it. Either put up and inform yourself or fark off, but I'm damn sick of the peanut gallery repeating ignorant comments they heard first from Fox News. Al Jazeera is, give or take, the CNN of Qatar.
 
2008-02-04 10:47:53 AM  
I second the idea that the Palestinians should be made full citizens. However, they Palestinian "government" wants no such thing. They want their own land. Which has been offered, and then declined, and ultimately revoked.

If they can't learn to live together, then Israel will continue to kill every man, woman and child within 100' of a terrorist, and the Palestinian terrorists will continue to lob missiles and bombs into Israel...and mob Egypt.

Grow up guys! Israel is heavy-handed but not wrong. The Palestinians are wrong, but justifiably angry. However, they just can't admit that they are wrong. If they did...this would be solved pretty damned quick.
 
2008-02-04 10:48:08 AM  
speaking of the civil rights watergun analogy:

I wonder how much progress blacks would have made in america if they started firebombing buses and cafes and things like that.

I bet a lot of americans would have take a lot longer to just give peace a chance.
 
2008-02-04 10:48:26 AM  
Dynascape: At the same time, people like jon snow or czarangelus become an archetype for everything that is in polar opposition to whatever Tatsuma might say.

I have never defended terrorism, and I want Israelis and Palestinians to enjoy peace, freedom, and sovereignty. If that is in "polar opposition" to what someone else wants or advocates, that is unfortunate.
 
2008-02-04 10:50:06 AM  
Tatsuma: Bedouins inside Israel have helped smuggling the terrorists, not only them but others, and right now Palestinians are celebrating by distributing candies and dancing.

I know, let's dismantle the wall, stop the checkpoints and give these upstanding citizens a State!

And allow millions the right of return within Israel!



No no, Israel must strike back with bombs immediately. We've come too far to allow the cycle of violence to end now.
 
2008-02-04 10:53:08 AM  
czarangelus:
Do you actually read Al Jazeera? Then shut the Hell up about it. Either put up and inform yourself or fark off, but I'm damn sick of the peanut gallery repeating ignorant comments they heard first from Fox News. Al Jazeera is, give or take, the CNN of Qatar.

Yes, Muhammed, I have read it on occasion. And the blatant anti-jew, anti-West spin they put on pretty much any story concerning either of those topics. They're more like the Fox news of the middle east. Except they don't attempt to hide their contempt. I don't trust any media outlet anymore, but some are much worse than others. And if you actually believe what any of them are telling you, you're a tad gullible.
 
2008-02-04 10:55:31 AM  
Jon Snow: I have never defended terrorism, and I want Israelis and Palestinians to enjoy peace, freedom, and sovereignty.

you're right my friend. and the easist way to achieve that is an immediat end of attacks against Israel so talks can begin.

I knew we could find common ground.
 
2008-02-04 10:57:10 AM  
ReverendJasen: Yes, Muhammed, I have read it on occasion.

Whatever, Bubba Bob Sisterfarker Jones.

ReverendJasen: And the blatant anti-jew, anti-West spin they put on pretty much any story concerning either of those topics

Challenge: Find one anti-Semitic article on Al Jazeera. Post.

ReverendJasen: They're more like the Fox news of the middle east. Except they don't attempt to hide their contempt.

1) Fox News hides their contempt?
2) Al-Jazeera being anti-semitic is a complete and utter myth.

ReverendJasen: And if you actually believe what any of them are telling you, you're a tad gullible.

Why yes. If I believe there's election violence that's claimed over 800 lives in Kenya, I'm an idiot! If I think Al-Jazeera isn't completely fabricating their on-the-ground interviews with rebels in Sudan, I'm a moron! And the articles on the Tamil insurgency are made up from the get go: everyone knows the island of Sri Lanka hasn't seen a single bombing in the past forty years. That's some clever criticism there, Bubba.
 
2008-02-04 11:03:51 AM  
czarangelus: Why yes. If I believe there's election violence that's claimed over 800 lives in Kenya, I'm an idiot!

Let's ask Hamas to solve the Kenyan violence.
 
2008-02-04 11:04:17 AM  
Where is Serious Cat when you need him? What would D-g do?
 
2008-02-04 11:05:17 AM  
Let's count how many times Tatsuma can use the word "subhuman" in reference to a Palestinian. Suicide bomber or not, they are still humans.

/Do you know who else called people subhumans?
 
2008-02-04 11:05:44 AM  
czarangelus:
Directly contradicted by the Der Spiegel article the other day. Palestinians are also svine and roaches, correct? I mean, only svine would want to purge the whole world of one particular race of people. Palestinians don't exist anyway, right?


And you czar, of course, perfectly represent the spoiled little children who play revolutionary to get back at mommy and daddy. Clearly that education didn't teach you how to read did it? I specifically said that it was not indicative of all Palestinians, unfortunately your head is so far up your own ass that you can't comprehend that. All you can see is "ZOMG defending evil Israel! BLARGLE BLARGLE!!!" and you make up whatever arguement you want. Take your strawman, light it on fire and cram it, dhimmi.

I would say this characterizes your support for the Israeli junta perfectly.

Oh so now the legitimately elected government of Israel is a junta?

Could you please tell me which military commander rules Israel with an iron fist?

Once again you demonstrate your astounding ignorance and willfull misrepresentation of the facts.
 
2008-02-04 11:06:37 AM  
fenrael23: Do you know who else called people subhumans?

Xenu?
 
2008-02-04 11:07:06 AM  
I just want to say two things, TWO THINGS:

1.) The V sign started out as being V fir Victory and was popularized as such by Winston Churchill during WWII. It was later co-opted by the hippy movement as the peace sign.

2.) The Palestinian state did not exist until the 60's. Until then the area had been divided up between Egypt, Jordan, Isreal, and Syria.

Thats all I want to say, anyone who doesn't like what I say either please read some history books or disagree with me politely. However I am not supporting or disputing anyone with these statements, these are merely a couple facts pertinent to the article and the discussion at hand that are either relatively unknown or ignored.
 
2008-02-04 11:09:12 AM  
NeuroticMan: I'm not a history major, but in 1949, didn't the UN decide to start plunking millions of people onto land that was already occupied by someone else?

The land was already owned by Jewish people, who had bought it from Syrian landowners in an attempt to return to their ancestral homeland after World War II. The UN decree made it a nation instead of a land holding, but it wasn't "stolen" from anyone by the people who wound up in Israel. You might could argue, maybe, that the Syrians sold land that wasn't theirs to sell - but then why aren't the Palestinians screaming about Syria owing them a country?

This doesn't in any way count other areas seized afterwards... but Israel didn't just show up there one day. There was no "Palestine" that they took over - there was one that was intended to be created in the same UN agreements that formed Israel, but the Palestinians rejected it by following the calls for jihad (and honestly, they probably did it for what seemed like a good reason at the time - the division was not very well thought out or executed by the United Nations). I agree that there should probably be one made, because the Palestinians are still almost entirely a refugee society in other nations (as those other nations want them to be, in some cases), but they didn't have a nation stolen out from underneath their feet. It's propaganda.

Now that doesn't make Israel blameless. They have their own problems to answer to - land seizure, refusal to resettle Palestinian refugees, and so on and so forth. Regardless of the reasoning, and it probably made sense at the time, it exacerbated the situation by creating a permanent class of disaffected expatriot refugees able to be manipulated into violence by their "gracious hosts" in other countries. The Palestinian refugee camps were and are fertile breeding ground for radicalization because they are filled with desperate people who have little hope for escape or achievement. In some cases, the best thing you can do to help you family there is blow yourself up and get some other nation to pay your family for your "sacrifice." The Palestinians have been essentially turned into the Muslim world's cannon fodder.

But the Isrealis didn't just land on the shores and go "Mine now" to bring that situation about. That's ridiculous.
 
2008-02-04 11:09:53 AM  
Fourth Middle Eastern internet cable sliced by mysterious boat anchor

SnoreCriminal: All you can see is "ZOMG defending evil Israel! BLARGLE BLARGLE!!!" and you make up whatever arguement you want.

Because firing a Hellfire missile into a crowded street is evil, and anyone who defends it is evil. It's just as evil as the suicide bombing that happened in Dimonia this morning. However, you refuse to morally equivocate - everything the Zionists do is okay because they're targeting terrorists.

SnoreCriminal: Oh so now the legitimately elected government of Israel is a junta?

Yes. Junta doesn't refer to a style of elections, it refers to a style of governance.

SnoreCriminal: Could you please tell me which military commander rules Israel with an iron fist?

It's a matter of which military commander rules Gaza with an iron fist, and that obviously isn't Hamas. Hamas can't protect their own backyard from Israeli missiles.
 
2008-02-04 11:10:57 AM  
fenrael23: Suicide bomber or not, they are still humans.

A successful suicide bomber isn't human. He's goo.
 
2008-02-04 11:12:58 AM  
If they were hot female IDF soldiers, then I'm sure it would increase the sexual tension.

:)
 
2008-02-04 11:15:02 AM  
"mysterious boat anchor"

ZOIKS! Looks like we got us a mystery to solve gang!
 
2008-02-04 11:16:11 AM  
To be fair to Al-Jazeera, they are pretty fair.

Now as naturally as swimming comes to a fish, duplicity comes to czarangelus. Al Jazeera *itself* is neither anti-semitic, nor anti-Israeli, nor anti-anything really. However, they do present all sides of the discussions, which means anti-semitic stuff sometimes. Frequently anti-western points of view. However, they do give all sides a chance to have their say.

Al Jazeera, I would say is one of the better networks in the world. Unfortunately, since they let everyone have their fair say... you tend to hear a lot of bad stuff. Also, they tend to favor the Arabic side of things, since, well, you don't really want to tell your fanbase they are a bunch of jackasses.

This is a reasonably good article about Al Jazeera (new window).
 
2008-02-04 11:16:16 AM  
log_jammin: "mysterious boat anchor"

ZOIKS! Looks like we got us a mystery to solve gang!


Sounds better than "aliens did it"
 
2008-02-04 11:19:51 AM  
Dynascape: There is no middle ground in these threads anymore. It's one side or the other with too much flame baiting in between.

FTFY
 
2008-02-04 11:20:13 AM  
ReverendJasen: gatwork: Hey, Jesus was brown too. It's just some wack US culture that makes him magically white.

Er, no, that was instigated by the Catholic Europeans, centuries ago. He has since gotten lighter and lighter as the years pass though.
Give him another 100 years, and he'll be a blonde, blue-eyed Nord.


Yes, thank you for understanding what I meant, and I think not many people actually realize just how much Jesus would have looked like a modern day Osama (OH MY GOD THE CHILDREN). I thought it was US culture that perpetuated it though, as I always saw them believing that jesus is white...reminds me of the boondocks episode.
 
2008-02-04 11:20:55 AM  
SnoreCriminal: farkingatwork: Having just got back from going to Israel for free (I can hook up other farkers with that too)

Go? Israel? Free?

Newsletter?
/subscribe


Ready to fly El Al? I bet you'll sleep most of the way.
 
2008-02-04 11:23:07 AM  
farkingatwork: Yes, thank you for understanding what I meant, and I think not many people actually realize just how much Jesus would have looked like a modern day Osama

I saw that Special. He looked like a very tan Robin Williams with short hair. Nanu, nanu!
 
2008-02-04 11:23:18 AM  
SnoreCriminal: Al Jazeera, I would say is one of the better networks in the world. Unfortunately, since they let everyone have their fair say... you tend to hear a lot of bad stuff. Also, they tend to favor the Arabic side of things, since, well, you don't really want to tell your fanbase they are a bunch of jackasses.

This is a reasonably good article about Al Jazeera (new window).


That was an interesting article. Well, Al-Jazeera is, ironically, probably the most pro-Western media outlet run by Arabs. People don't seem to realize "the Muslim world" is not a coherent bloc, and that Al-Jazeera represents the bias of their pro-Western Qatari government as much as anything.
 
2008-02-04 11:23:41 AM  
Jon Snow: Dynascape: At the same time, people like jon snow or czarangelus become an archetype for everything that is in polar opposition to whatever Tatsuma might say.

I have never defended terrorism, and I want Israelis and Palestinians to enjoy peace, freedom, and sovereignty. If that is in "polar opposition" to what someone else wants or advocates, that is unfortunate.


Im not saying I dont agree with you.

My point is that these threads have turned away from logical discoruse and intead turned into some "Tatsuma vs Jon vs Czar" flamewar hell.

Just wish people could stop saying "Bring tatsuma here!" as if we have no idea what he's going to say. Same goes with Czar. We know his general angle, its not necessary to flame away to make his point nullified.
 
2008-02-04 11:26:03 AM  
Dynascape: Just wish people could stop saying "Bring tatsuma here!" as if we have no idea what he's going to say. Same goes with Czar. We know his general angle, its not necessary to flame away to make his point nullified.

/Exactly.
//THIS.
///Correctamundo.
////QFT and all that jazz.
 
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