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(ESPN)   "I don't think the refs understand the rules" says Wings whiner Brett Hull   (espn.go.com) divider line 96
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52 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Oct 2002 at 4:32 AM (11 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



96 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread
 
2002-10-25 04:37:26 AM
hull is a biatch.
 
2002-10-25 04:38:42 AM
I think he has a legitimate gripe. He isn't the only player that feels this way.
 
2002-10-25 04:39:52 AM
Wings Whiner?
He's right. He isn't whining.
 
2002-10-25 04:40:04 AM
Brett Hull should look at what happens in professional wrestling. Are those refs blind, or what? I mean, they like let people into the ring who aren't even supposed to be fighting. And illegal weapons! ...don't get me started on illegal weapons.

Wrestlers have it tough. Hull should quit whining.
 
2002-10-25 04:41:31 AM
"The fine for criticizing officials in the NHL is $1,000"

Holy Sheepshiat! Let's take up a collection for these poor souls!
 
2002-10-25 04:42:23 AM
That's funny shiat, Scrotar
 
2002-10-25 04:44:47 AM
Scrotar
He's right about the blue lines.
And the Kings tying the Wings? Please.

The fine for criticizing officials in the NHL is $1,000. For coaches, it's $10,000.

That is insane.
 
2002-10-25 04:45:20 AM
I have been waiting for a long time to see Brett Hull with that dumbass logo beside his name - but this time it's misplaced. He and others have a valid point.
 
2002-10-25 04:50:17 AM
Sweater Girl - Heh. I don't follow hockey... what's obstruction? I can't really tell if their complaints are valid or not.
 
2002-10-25 04:58:02 AM
It's holding a player who's off the puck, been going on for years. Hockey is the sport that they made HiDef widescreen tv's for. You can see all the action.
 
2002-10-25 05:00:37 AM
Scroter Come to the dark side;)
Hockey is the most fun sport to follow!
 
2002-10-25 05:03:13 AM
"Hockey is the most fun sport to follow!"

This is true. I even watched a Flyers game tonight. A Flyers game!
 
2002-10-25 05:05:43 AM
I even watched a Flyers game tonight. A Flyers game!

And still I have faith in you.

XOXO
 
2002-10-25 05:12:53 AM
Pornosaur - Ah, thanks!

Sweater Girl - Must.. resist.. peer pressure
 
2002-10-25 05:13:31 AM
I would say any complaint by a RedWing is valid though just as a general rule.
 
2002-10-25 05:14:16 AM
Finally someone is coming out and saying what we have been screaming at the TV's for years.

Fuhrer Bettman wont do anything about the damn officials being spectators rather than actually making a call. The last game between the Kings and Avs, I think Andy Murray should have took his team off the bench to the locker room in protest and forfeit the game. Now that would have been cool!


Pro Wrestling... give me a farking break!
 
2002-10-25 05:17:16 AM
Sweater Girl - It was the only game that I could find on TV. I don't get to see my beloved Stars play until Monday.
 
2002-10-25 05:18:44 AM
Whispers into Scrotars ear..we all float down here
 
2002-10-25 05:21:29 AM
Sweater Girl will you will whisper in my ear before I go to bed?
 
2002-10-25 05:21:52 AM
Andonbray Didn't the Stars play tonight?
My wires may be crossed. I like to keep an eye on fellow Cup winners;)
 
2002-10-25 05:23:26 AM
Night Pornosaur and fellow farkers. I need to go to sleep now
 
2002-10-25 05:26:09 AM
Sweater Girl - Yup, they played but the game wasn't broadcast here. I'm too cheap to shuck out the $170 for the Center Ice Channels.
 
2002-10-25 05:30:37 AM
No game at the bar Andonbray? Thats where I see most of my Wings games.
 
2002-10-25 05:36:08 AM
Porno - Nah, I'm to too big into the bar scene anymore. Too many amateur drunks there. They tend to piss me off and I wind up getting arrested for assault. I don't ever get arrested at home.
 
2002-10-25 05:37:02 AM
Not - NOT too big into the bar scene anymore.
 
2002-10-25 05:41:55 AM
I agree with Hull. So scoring is up, big deal. I find the game worse to watch when there's a penalty every 20 seconds. It's dumb. I enjoy fast paced and wide open hockey, not a full game of My Power Play vs Your Power Play. Not cool.
 
2002-10-25 05:58:11 AM
If Hull hadn't left St. Louis...he wouldn't be a whinning Red Wing biatch.
 
2002-10-25 05:58:55 AM
Hull is the youngest crotchety old man in sports. He isn't happy if he isn't biatching about something.

I hope the refs don't do what they've done in the past and bow down to the pressure from a few whiney players and coaches. I don't mind a extra two or three powerplays a game if it means a faster, firewagon-type hockey that was going on in the 80's. That's the way hockey is supposed to be played. I still don't like Jacques Lemaire and the Devil's for what they did to the game in the 90's.

Right now everybody needs to back off the refs. Sure they're a bit inconsistant, but fans and coaches are giving the players a break when they take an obstruction penalty because they haven't gotten used to it yet, so why not give the refs the same courtesy?
 
2002-10-25 06:21:49 AM
First of all what Hull is trying to do is get the game BACK to a free flowing brand of hockey like in the 80's. I don't really feel the refs are at fault cause the obstruction rule is an objective call and it is gonna take them a while to call it consistently like Highway said. I personally don't like most of the new rules or how they are being enforced. If they are gonna crack down on the obstruction they they should be doing a better job of controlling the diving. Now that the players know the refs are looking for any kind of contact I see more acting in the games than on T.V.

By creating these rules to speed up the game what the NHL is trying to do is manufacture a perfectly packaged scoring fest that they feel will bring in the ratings. Problem is some of the high scoring games are completely boring. Who wants to watch a game that is over by the first period? I prefer a coast to coast game, that stays competitive to the end.
 
2002-10-25 06:47:33 AM
Brett Hull is a huge whiner. I don't understand his gripe. I've watched the last couple Blues games (his former team, my favorite team) and the officials in those games seemed to know how to call the penalties on obstruction. Other calls, not so much. But hey, you have to be leagally blind to qualify for being a ref. I think the DUMBASS logo goes with Mr. Hull quite nicely.
 
2002-10-25 07:13:29 AM
While this is in no way meant to detract from the whiny nature of Mr. Hull, he has a point. I've seen pretty great inconsistency in what the refs are calling. Call it or don't call it, but be the same from team to team and game to game.

GO LEAFS GO!!!
 
2002-10-25 07:42:02 AM


Yeah, let's get back to OLD TIME HOCKEY!

Eddie Shore!!!
 
kab
2002-10-25 08:09:24 AM
Hull should really just stop complaining. If the Wings are so chock full of talent as they claim, then they dont need to be holding people up in the first place. **news flash.. all you Farkers who want to see speedy hockey, what do you think these rules were put in place to assist to begin with?**

Oh wait, they're the WINGS..... they spend a lot of cash, and expect different treatment, like the Ranger$ do.

This is ironic coming from the same man, who's blatantly illegal goal was allowed when the Stars beat the Sabres for the puck. Oh yeah, that one.....

The thing is, the NHL says this bullshiat at the beginning of every year. By the all star break, it will be holding, hooking and grabbing as usual.
 
2002-10-25 08:15:12 AM
The new rules will lead us to the promised land. Everyone wants a free-flowing gama a la the 80's? Fine.. first cut out the crap. The clutching, grabbing, etc. That will take a couple of years, and a lot of penalties will be called, to help the players re-adjust to the better style. Too many guys out there have made careers off the clutching and grabbing part of the game, and that needs to be fixed. In a year or two, once everyone's adjusted their style of play, things will be better.

For the record? I'm digging the new rules so far. Too many penalties? Too bad.. stop breaking the rules.

Brett Hull is the last person I'd listen to complain about anything.. farkin' traitor.
 
2002-10-25 08:22:41 AM
Firstly, Hull's goal was not illegal. His skate clearly backed out of the crease before it went in. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

Secondly, the Wings do not expect special treatment, that is just a whiney complaint made by fans of the lesser teams on a consistant basis. Waaa! The crackdown on obstruction WAS intended to speed up the game in the nuetral zone, and refs are not calling the penalties there. Simple as that.

If the Wings are so chock full of talent as they claim, then they dont need to be holding people up in the first place.

What does that mean? The Wings are the ones trying to skate freely, not hold people up. Have you even watched them play?

GO WINGS!
 
2002-10-25 08:26:04 AM
Dogfather_jr
I've seen pretty great inconsistency in what the refs are calling


*gasp* not the NHL refs!

seriously though some ref's like to dictate the outcome of the game and make their calls accordingly *cough*mustache man aka Bill McCreary
 
2002-10-25 08:31:41 AM
At least he's not like Leafs coach Pat Quinn. "Waah! We're doing bad because we have a *gasp* 7 game home stand! I don't understand why the NHL hates us so. Waaah!"

Quinn is an asshat. Leafs suck. Sens rule.
 
2002-10-25 08:41:48 AM
Well said BigHornBall. Secondly, I think Hull is right. The game was unpleasant to watch and the refs were making bad calls all night. Hull actually showed a lot of restraint when he made those comments. He was going berserk during the game. McCarty had to drag him back into the pentalty box at one point.
 
2002-10-25 08:42:54 AM
Actually, Brian Burke(Vancouver GM) is the worst.

"Wahhh! We lose because our owners are cheap!"

I wanted to pimp slap that guy after the Wings blasted them out of the playoffs last year.
 
2002-10-25 08:45:40 AM
BigHornBall

I couldn't have said it better myself.


GO WINGS!!
 
2002-10-25 08:49:29 AM
Thanks 'tross. Just stating the facts. I don't know if people hate the Wings because of their success, or because whenever you go to a Wings game, anywhere, there are usually more Wings fans there than home team fans(did that come out right?). I suppose it could be both? ;-)

You're right, Hull was very restrained. That game was a farkin' farce.
 
kab
2002-10-25 08:51:44 AM
Umm, no, it wasnt. The refs let it go because the "celebration had already started".

Second, lets take a look at some penalty minutes across the league, to see just how unfairly the Wings are being treated.

Avs PIM
home-44
away 53

Stars
home-54
away-85

Devils
home-20
away-91

Wings
home-85
away-56

Rangers
home-84
away-73

Flyers
home-39
away-82

Many other teams have significantly lower total PIM's. I'd say your team isnt adapting. Suck it up.
 
kab
2002-10-25 08:55:39 AM
"whenever you go to a Wings game, anywhere, there are usually more Wings fans there than home team fans(did that come out right?). "

That's because there are a lot of wagon jumper fans in the league, and/or sheep. This is why, if the Rangers ever start winning again, you'll see blue jerseys all over the place.

And I dont hate the Wings at all. I hate teams that think they deserve special treatment because of the $$ they spend.
 
2002-10-25 08:59:11 AM
Kab:

Hull's not saying that the Wings are being treated unfairly, he's saying (and I agree) that the players don't know what the fark not to do, because the penalty-calling is not consistent. The obstruction rule (is it even really a rule) is intended to open up the ice between the blue lines and the refs aren't calling them there, they're calling them in the defensive zones when they call them at all.

Scotto
 
2002-10-25 09:03:14 AM
Kab - Mmmmk, you might wanna check into some glasses, thick ones. You must be a Sabres fan, so sorry.

Many of those teams don't look that much lower to me. The fact that Hull has the balls to speak out and the other players won't means squat. Plus, did you ever think the refs might want to make an example of the Stanley cup champions, considering that's who everyone is watching? The only reason the Avs are so low is because they are a team full fo pansies. :)
 
2002-10-25 09:05:50 AM
Fb- are you from Philly?
 
2002-10-25 09:07:59 AM
Kab - I agree on the bandwagon thing, it's gotten pretty bad. I remember when the Wings sucked in the 80's, Illich(sp?) had to give away cars to get people to come to games. Now they have a religious following. However, in arguing with myself, I must note that they are an origional six team, like the Leafs, and will have closet fans everywhere.
 
2002-10-25 09:10:19 AM
Clap-Clap-Clapclapclap!!

Yea! They actually look like they want to win this year. I hope they continue with this kind of play in the post season.
 
2002-10-25 09:13:10 AM
Heh, the Flyers. It doesn't matter if they make it all the way to the finals, the Wings'll sweep 'em. w00t, Wings are l33t. Yaya. lol.
 
kab
2002-10-25 09:14:03 AM
"Plus, did you ever think the refs might want to make an example of the Stanley cup champions, considering that's who everyone is watching? "

Hmm, since the Rangers have even more PIM's than the Wings, they must be trying to make an example of one of the worst teams in the league too!!

Now who's whining? Besides Hull, of course.....

Players arent nearly that stupid. They know what rules used to be able to be bent way the hell out of proportion, and which ones not. Its simple. Dont hold people up, and you wont get called for it.

You do realize that holding up a forechecker on a dump in has been a callable penalty for years now, right? Its a rule that has been let go (just like goalies covering the puck outside the crease), and teams have made it a status quo thing to practice.

And I'm not a Sabre's fan whatsoever. A missed call is a missed call, end of story.
 
2002-10-25 09:17:48 AM
we'll see how much he's whining when he's lifting the stanley cup above his head in June of 2003
 
2002-10-25 09:18:13 AM
a) Yes, I'm a Wings fan, and have been since they sucked.

b) Yes, Hull is a whiner

c) Yes, the new rules about obstruction suck. When you have games where theres only 20 minutes of 5 on 5 hockey, you know the refs need to get their heads out of their asses.
 
2002-10-25 09:18:15 AM
to those asshats that think the article is about the wings being mistreated. The wings where the only team interviewed accept for one othe player on a different team.

Sheesh. They aren't saying they are mistreated. They are voicing their opinion (as many other hockey players/coaches) with regard to the new farking obstruction rule.

It's probably the worst rule in professional sports. At least until 2 hand touch on the Quarterback is instituted.
 
2002-10-25 09:21:58 AM
Ah yes, I'm whining. I was merely trying to come up with a logical reasoning for all the penalties. I've watched 4 or 5 Wings games this year and I know for a fact that nearly half of those penalties are "phantom". How many Wings games have you watched?(and no, I'm not being trite, just curious, before you pin any more tags on me) And yes, I'm quite aware of the rules and those which have fallen by the wayside over the years. The fact that we don't agree on something does not mean I know little of the game. Missed call, good one. :)
 
kab
2002-10-25 09:29:54 AM
the penalties will drop when teams clean up thier act. This is all to encourage a more European style of play, which is just what Bettman wants. Some teams are adapting quicker than others. I'd just like to see the refs call the game consistently as the season progresses, I can almost guarantee they wont.

Here's some more things that need to be done to the game:

-defenseman shooting the puck over the glass is a delay of game, same as a goalie.

-bring back the foot in crease rule.

-Linesman should be OFF the ice entirely, in seats similiar to a line judge in a tennis match.
 
kab
2002-10-25 09:33:52 AM
"The fact that we don't agree on something does not mean I know little of the game"

Very true, I dont mean to be sounding like this is a flame war... just a high strung debate :D Sorry if I offended at all.

Honestly, I havent watched any Wings games this year (yet)
 
2002-10-25 09:38:33 AM
fark Brett Hull and his biatch ass. NO GOAL!
 
2002-10-25 09:45:40 AM
I used to love hockey. I watched it for 30 years. Speed, skill, power, finesse, hockey has it all, except one important thing---rule enforcement consistency. Besides the fact that the NHL changes the rules each year more than any other sport I am aware of, the refs change the rules during any given game. The first period rules/calls compared to over-time period rules/calls are two different games. Come playoff time, a completely new set of eyes/minds make the judgment calls. I still love going to a game and watching the great ones play (Hull, to name one); I just can't take the game too seriously when the people in charge won’t tell us the real rules, and stick to them.
 
2002-10-25 09:52:14 AM
I've watched most of the wings this year, but few other games. It's clear from players' reactions to penalties both on the wings and the opposing side that nobody (players or refs) has a consistent feel for the new obstruction rule. As a fan, the game can feel jerky and weird. Hull may be a loudmouth (ok, IS a loudmouth), but he's truly one of the game's philosophers, and he's right about this. I hope they either change the rule back or settle on a standard. GO WINGS!
 
2002-10-25 10:00:19 AM
Kab - I actually agree with your rule changes, except for the foot in the crease one. I always thought that rule was kinda lame. Worry not, I'm not that easily offended. You just got my attention. It's nice to have an arguement on the game without it turning into an expletive contest. I spend a lot of time on the ESPN boards and that's usually what happens there. The people here tend to be a little more cerebral. I would usually tend to agree that Hull is a bit on the whiney side, but this season so far has been lame so far. The refs really aren't making any sense and before it improves the game, it may cause even more fans to jump ship.
 
kab
2002-10-25 10:00:29 AM
"Come playoff time, a completely new set of eyes/minds make the judgment calls. "

So VERY VERY true. Still, this is the best damn team game on the face of the earth :D
 
2002-10-25 10:04:54 AM
"Come playoff time, a completely new set of eyes/minds make the judgment calls. "

So VERY VERY true. Still, this is the best damn team game on the face of the earth


True and TRUE. When I started getting into hockey, I totally stopped caring about basketball. Go figure. I still like football(AMERICAN FOOTBALL, not soccer), though. Joey Harrington is the shiaatt!
 
2002-10-25 10:07:15 AM
I would usually tend to agree that Hull is a bit on the whiney side, but this season so far has been lame so far.

Sorry about that sentence, um, I was eating or something.
 
2002-10-25 10:11:21 AM
Ummm, ok. I think it will actually be a good game. The Bills D sucks, they had one good game against a banged up Miami offense, whoopee. It should be a scorefest. And FB, since your so in love with Joey's "tight little pooper", can we assume you're the father if he has a child? Heh, sorry, couldn't help it.
 
2002-10-25 10:15:34 AM
kab
-defenseman shooting the puck over the glass is a delay of game, same as a goalie.
I don't even like this for the goalie. I can't think of a time I've ever actually see someone trying to toss it into the stands, just out of the zone.. faceoff back in the zone seems fair. (technically, I think it is a penalty now, for what it's worth)

-bring back the foot in crease rule.
This must be some sort of troll?

-Linesman should be OFF the ice entirely, in seats similiar to a line judge in a tennis match.
Umm.. right. Half of the linesman's job is to break up fights. While I'll admit that these days they've cracked down so much that there's more likely to be a fight in the stands out of boredom, I think we still need some people on the ice.

Anyway, I'm all in favor of cracking down on the hooking and other bullshiat that goes on in the neutral-zone. But I've seen way too many powerplays for my liking and not just against my team (Go B's!). Here's my suggestions:

- Goalies are fair game if playing the puck outside the crease (not going for the puck, but actual stickhandling).
- I'm not sure if there's some new rule (few years now) where if you drop your stick after the play you go to the box, but someone's gonna lose an eye one of these days. You wanna grab someone after the play.. fine.. put you stick down.. nine times out of ten they're just grabbing a body to make sure nobody gets jumped.
- Call stick infractions. Call less fighting majors and more stick infractions. Seriously. someone's gonna lose an eye. My mom told me so! Now adays people seem to break their stick on some guy instead of going toe to toe. I'm not saying bring back the brawls (though they were entertaining, I'll admin). But something's got to be done.

umm.. probably more but I'm late for work.. thanks a lot guys!
 
2002-10-25 10:21:50 AM
Is it me, or does all Brett Hull do is biatch. That's why he became Golden Shower Boy Brett. Loser.

As for the whole, bad call season. IF you think that jamming a guy up in the chops with your mits is not obstruction, then go back to fvcking Sascatoon! The guys that are biatching, are the ones who think you have to box with a guy to keep him from going around you.

PLAY HOCKEY!
 
2002-10-25 10:23:42 AM
FB - LOL! What are you, the Bill Swersky of Buffalo? DA BILLS!

Go Lions!

Jwsh - I like the goalies fair game idea. Teams will have to start putting goalies that look like linebackers in net. It'll be great! :-p
 
2002-10-25 10:32:44 AM
Okay, people, a little hockey history (not trying to be condescending or an insufferable know-it-all, I just want to straighten out some conceptions):

This defensive style of hockey that has dominated the last few years is actually hockey the way it was meant to be played. Gritty. Grinding. Toughing it out. The Canadian way. It borrows tactics from soccer a lot, in that success comes much easier if you play not to lose, rather than playing to win.

50 years ago most hockey games were low scoring affairs. That's how Terry Sawchuk got 22 shutouts in one season (today, it's difficult for many goalies to get more than 5). Scoring 20 goals in a season was EXTREMELY good. That's why Rocket Richard's 50 goals in 50 games was such an incredible feat. It was the Babe Ruth 60 homeruns statistic of its day.

In the 20s-30s-40s, defensemen hung back and forwards always carried the puck into the offensive zone. There were few deviations from technique and strategy, and the game pretty much remained unchanged for several decades. There were few, if any, innovations, and they didn't impact the game much. The standard style for protecting the league was to line your forwards up and shut down the opposing team's advances. They called it "kitty bar the door".

It was the Gordie Howe and Ted Lindsey line in the 50s that started changing the way the game was played. They found out that if they threw the puck into a certain area in the corner, it would come bouncing right back out in front of the goal. Kinda like billiards, they explained. Also, it allowed them to get past the defensemen easier. They had inadvertently invented the tactic of "dumping the puck in" or the "dump and chase". Other teams quickly saw the advantage of this, and started doing it as well. This opened the game up some, and by the 60s it was not uncommon to see players scoring a lot more...some of them getting 100 points in a season!

In 67, the League decided to expand. In ten years it went from 6 teams to 21....nearly quadrupled in size!! Almost immediately it was discovered that there were whole throngs of NHL calibre players who found themselves in the NHL (it would take a full generation for the talentpool of hockey around the world to catch up to the professional league's rapid expansion). Suddenly, the more skilled players realized that they could skate and shoot circles around most of the league. ESPECIALLY the defensemen (who are traditionally the best skaters in hockey. They have to be).

Thus came about the second great innovation: the idea of the defensemen as on offensive threat. This became the trademark of Bobby Orr, who practically manhandled entire teams with his end-to-end rushes.

Because the talent pool was diluted, marquee players also found time to do other things with the puck, like wind up really big and smack the hell out of it. Hence: the slap shot. That tended to break the blade of the stick often, so they started curving their sticks to give it more strength.

For players who could not compete with the skill of the league's elite, they figured out something else they could do instead: beat the living crap out of them. Thus gave rise to thuggery and goonery (early words for the modern PC term "enforcer"), bench brawls, bloody fights, the mean streak of Bobby Clark and his Broadstreet Bullies who won the Cup in 74 and 75, in addition to having the most penalty minutes. The 70s was the decade of thrash hockey, encapsulated and parodied perfectly in the Paul Newman cult film Slap Shot (see pic of Hanson Brothers, above).

Before the 70s, it was expected that everyone and anyone knew how to fight, in addition to scoring. Gordie Howe himself beat the crap out of everyone in the League at least 3 times over on his way to winning scoring championship. It was just that the 70s saw the first time the rise of the good, the guy who played hockey purely for the fighting.

During this timultuous decade The NHL was also looking, for the first time, outside of North America for talent to fill their dilapidated ranks. By the late 70s, Europeans arrived, who brought with them an entirely different game, full of grace, speed, marksmanship, and finesse.

Ironically, it would not be Europeans but Canadians, playing the European style, that would dominate the NHL (and its record books) like no team would have ever done in any other sport EVER. As predicted in a 1981 Sports Illustrated article, "...and the sleek shall inherit the ice..."

The Europeans showed the NHL what could be done with their game, and with a weak talent pool, the NHL responded.

Gretzky. Jesus mother mary to hell. Where to begin. He is the most statistically dominant player in the history of all sports. I won't even go into describing his innovations, or else this post will get way too long that it already is. There are many of them. But with the rash of european talent and lacklustre NHL bottomfeeders, it was open season on offence. 8-6 games. 200 point seasons. In 1984 the Edmonton Oilers averaged 5.5 goals a game.

But by the 90s, a full generation after the gross expansion that completely flipped the scales of the league, we were finally starting to see the returns of our investments: the talentpool had caught up.

The talentpool was also BIGGER. The average size now in the NHL is 6'1", 200lbs. And with the talent pool finally catching up in the mid-90s, suddenly the euro superstars could not take advantage of the cannon fodder anymore. Goalies improved (and goalie equipment got larger). Defense once again was stressed. Jacques Lemaire comes up with ultra-defensive technique bemoaned by all as the "neutral zone trap", but in reality it is not new nor inventive. It is just the old "kitty bar the door" style of play utilized by the original 6 teams full of canadians in the 40s and 50s.

But now that we've had a taste of what hockey could be like we don't like that system anymore? Heh. Fair enough.

ummm....

I think I've completely forgotten what my point to this rant was. I think I just wanted an excuse to talk about hockey. It's late/early. I'm going to bed.

Comments/flames/Godwin's law accepted.
 
kab
2002-10-25 11:08:16 AM
"-bring back the foot in crease rule.
This must be some sort of troll? "

Not at all.... if you need to be crashing the net to score, something is sorely wrong with your team.

As far as never seeing a defenseman toss the puck to break up a power play..... you clearly never watched the Ulf Samuelsson era Rangers.
 
2002-10-25 11:09:28 AM
Brett Hull isn't scoring like he once did and needs a scapegoat. Mario Lemieux, 37, is leading the league in scoring and has no problems with the new rules. Old habits die hard Red wing fans, adapt, adjust and overcome, or there will be no more Stanley cups for you.
 
2002-10-25 11:17:59 AM
So Mario Lemieux has offically passed the whiney crybaby biatch torch to Brett Hull? I bet Gordie thinks Brett wears ladies' undies under his uniform.

Hockey was a man's sport until Gretzky/Jagr/Brett Hull/Lemieux came along.
 
2002-10-25 11:38:51 AM
You would think that the Red Wings would be in favor of the new obstruction calls so they can have more space to move their wheelchairs across the ice. Come on guys, it's hockey...if you don't like a call take it out on your opponent.
 
2002-10-25 11:38:56 AM
I love hockey but watching that game i got bored and went to bed. How can the officials think (maybe thats the problem) that calling all these penalties is good for the sport? Plus don't get me started on fighting not being allowed anymore with all the nit penalties they have enacted with a 10minute penalty. What the FARK is a 10minute penalty how is that going to help?
 
2002-10-25 11:38:58 AM
Chooby
Since scoring is up because of all the penalties due to the new rules, Brett Hull will complain because he's not scoring enough? Interesting logic.

Ishkur
Nicely put. While I agree Sawchuk didn't face as much shots as goalies do nowadays. I must give him credit for doing it without the equipment we have today. His face is a literal roadmap of past saves hehe.

"My friends aren't all stars, but they're OK. We pick up teams, drop the puck and play. Skate until dinner, watch the Pros on TV. Screw my homework, cuz we love hockey!"
-Uncle Gordie
The Planet Smashers

Even though we disagree on alot of things, it's still nice to see so many Hockey fans on Fark!
 
2002-10-25 11:53:26 AM
If you don't like being obstructed, then, in the words of David Letterman, via the soon-to-be-late Warren Zevon: "Hit somebody!"

(Anybody heard that yet -- Warren Zevon's Hockey Song on his last album? Poor Warren....)
 
2002-10-25 12:02:32 PM
Great post, Ishkur. I think I might forward it to my girlfriend.....

A couple of extra points, if you'll allow me....

Another watershed moment was the Olympics (specifically Salt Lake City, since both Canada and the US made it to the finals. Sorry, European Farkers...). After having seen the top players on the international size rink (larger than the NHL rink), the NHL game seemed slow and dull in comparison.

As a result, I think that the fans have become even more critical, considering our fond memories of seeing Kariya, Lemieux, et al. on the international surface.

Lastly, the foremost goal of the NHL is to expand its audience, rather than simply maintain its existing fan base. Yes, I know that all of the major pro leagues have this same goal, but due to the *very* limited penetration of the NHL, increased viewership is essential (well, essential to the NHL honchos, I would prefer the opposite). In order to 'sell' the game, the league has decided that the current style of play won't cut it. Hence the modified rules (4 against 4 in overtime, penalties that discourage fighting, etc.).

Incidentally, I believe that Hull's goal should have been allowed (not a flame, just an opinion). Enjoying the hockey talk, guys.

Go Sens!
 
2002-10-25 12:11:57 PM
Ishkur-

Sure, that's the way hockey used to be played. But the game had changed into something more dynamic, more exciting, more fun to watch. When the clutch and grab, neutral zone trap came ito being it destroyed that excitement, destroyed the finesse of the game, and allowed no talent, goon teams like the flyers and devils win hockey games.

Who here would like to see football be played like it used to be.... No foreward passing, all wishbone, all the time, the old leather helmets. Do you honostly think that hockey was a ever a better game, was ever more fun to watch than in the 80's and early 90's. The amazing things that Gretsky and Lemieux could do with the puck were far more exciting than seeing some no talent hack defender whose only skill was that he was 6'5" 250lbs and could hold onto a guy halfway down the ice until someone else came and stole the puck. Keep up the penalty calling, maybee some day they players will figure out that they cant play the same anymore.

If the game hadn't degenerated like it did, we would have had a few more years to watch the great one play, and Le Manifique wouldnt have taken three years off. And that's the true tragedy of what happened to the game....
 
2002-10-25 12:18:27 PM
Anyone else think that with how well Lemieux is playing, that Gretz, somewhere in the dark recesses of his mind, is considering lacing them up once again?

Oh to dream...
 
2002-10-25 12:22:40 PM
Ishkur -- Excellent summary. But can you really do a history of hockey without mentioning Ed Van Impe's "Check Heard 'Round the World" against the Red Army in 72?
 
2002-10-25 12:33:08 PM
Hey Lou
Not nessessarily because of penalties, but the clutch and grab is gone. Players with superior skating and passing abilities will excell in scoring.
 
2002-10-25 12:34:43 PM
Who cares about detroit? The Wild 0wn j00!!!!
 
2002-10-25 12:37:10 PM
The Wild? You mean the North Stars?
 
2002-10-25 01:23:10 PM
Fark that, how about taking those goddamn nets down? Everyone everywhere hates them, and Bettman ignores them ALL and keeps saying how no one is complaining and fans are much safer now.

Here's what I hope happens. A ton of season ticket holders say, "The nets come down or I stay home". Teams tell the league, "We're losing money because of these nets. Pay us the difference or they come down." League says no way, and a team in hockey-mad city like Toronto or Montreal says "Fark that they're coming down anyway because our fans are more important." Then that will be the end.
 
2002-10-25 01:23:35 PM
Wings win 2003 stanley cup in 5 games.

Lions beat bills 27-23.
 
2002-10-25 01:34:48 PM
Briggsb -- you left out "Pigs fly"
 
2002-10-25 02:04:04 PM
As a guy who plays hockey (roller), I gotta say that I agree with Hull. If your goal is to make the game faster, with more flow, call the penalties in the neutral zone. That's where the good skaters/puck handlers really accelerate and dazzle with moves to break away.

I also have to say I really dug the international rule with no 2 line passes called. Then you could have a guy sprint thru the neutral zone and get hit with a great pass. I'm a defensman/assist guy, so I get just as much of a kick out of a great pass as a great goal. But what do I know, I play roller, with no blue lines, no icing. No stops without a penalty, puck out of play, or goalie cover and a typical 40 minute game score of 8-5 or 9-6 and absolutely no fighting (auto 2 game suspension for even a dropped glove) My wife, who isn't much of a hockey fan, says she enjoys our games much more than watching NHL or (shudder) the local minor-league team.

On another note, my Stars look pretty good this year. I like their off-season moves and they are playing with fire and a more offensive-minded game.
 
2002-10-25 03:49:18 PM
10-25-02 04:44:47 AM Sweater Girl
Scrotar
He's right about the blue lines.
And the Kings tying the Wings? Please.


Actually, SG, the Wings are now 0-1-1-0 in this young season against the Kings. The red wings seem to have major problems of late beating LA. Especially in LA.
 
2002-10-25 04:02:47 PM
instead of saying were going to open the game up by calling what the refs feel is obstruction or make up in there head that it was obstruction (which ever the case), they need to do away with exactly what TheDude42 is talking about TWO LINE PASSES they slow the game down. One foot in the crease rule was a joke that should have never existed in the first place....we have a rule that still exists its called Goalie interference, that is understandable. As far as the wings expecting better calls yeah right, the refs anymore don't care about calling an even game all they care about is trying to make a game even....if you didn't understand that last point here it is again... The Refs don't care about CALLING an even or consistent game, all they care about is helping the team out that is behind to make the game closer...its ridiculous ... oh well its not like this is the first year it has happened but this obstruction crap just gives the Refs that much more power to turn a games momentum and break its flow......its pathetic.
 
2002-10-25 04:36:28 PM
Great post about the history of Hockey.

I'd like to mention about teams like the Wild, the Canadians, and the Sens. They don't really have the size of teams like Philly, or New York, but they have the finesse. I love seeing Koivu, Markov, Petrov, Dackell, etc etc drift throught the neutral zone, sail passed the defence and get amazing changes. It really is more fun then it once was.

I agree, they should be calling the penalties in the neutral zone, but as well in the defensive zone. Holding should not be tolerated anywhere (execpt in the corners where it's necessary). Im glad they made the "change". Hopefully, teams like Philly, New York, and Detroit will realize the way to win is to emulate the Wilds, TB, Montreal, and Boston.

Go Wilds
 
2002-10-25 04:40:59 PM
The reason the obstruction calls are being emphasized nowadays is BECAUSE of team like the Red Wings, so of course the Red Wings will whine.
Did you watch them in the playoffs last year? The defensemen relied on hooking players, holding players against the boards away from the play, pulling the ol' can opener on the players. It just pissed me off all last year.
And did you see how much the Wings whined about everything else last year? Those overplayed whimps sicken me.
Oh Yeah, and Hull is a self-centered bastard.
 
2002-10-25 05:29:22 PM
Whoever called Brett Hull a whiner in this headline has made a mistake.
Brett Hull is the REAL DEAL.
A gentleman.
An honorable player.
A future Hall of Famer.


10-25-02 04:40:59 PM Misterchill



Yo MC ill You are an ignoramus.
 
2002-10-25 05:40:27 PM
I think that his main complaint was the inconsistant calls. Also, he has a valid gripe and the dumbass tag looks partisan.
 
2002-10-25 06:12:24 PM
M_C:
RE: the REAL DEAL:
To be a decent player, he *needs* Oates at his side. Maybe he's HALF a REAL DEAL.

RE: A gentleman:
He whines whenever ANYTHING doesn't go his way, like after every loss in the playoff last year for instance.

RE: An honourable player
The boy lost all my repect after he dissed his home country by joining the US national team. For more exposure, NOT honour.

RE: a future hall-of-famer
I don't doubt it. I agree he's scored a lot of goals, the most in the league a couple times. He's got a super hard shot. But that's beside the point. He can still whine.
 
2002-10-25 07:45:10 PM
HEY! FB- had some posts in here that were funny, where the fark are they now? If I notice censorship like that again why I'll, I'll,..............think of something.
 
jbc [TotalFark]
2002-10-26 12:05:56 AM
Hull's the LAST person in the league who should be complaining about rules interpretations. He needs to get his sorry ass back to Dallas. They deserved each other.

BTW... The Wild own everyone right now. Add that to the strength of youth and high school hockey in the Twin Cities, and the Gophers biatch-slapping the Wolverines on their way to the title last year, Detroit needs to get over itself. It's never truly been "Hockeytown"
 
2002-10-27 10:29:45 AM
I lost all respect for Hull when he "scored" the game winning goal to clinch the cup as a Dallas Star, WITH HIS SKATE INSIDE THE LINE OF THE CREASE !!! They have of course since changed the rule........HOWEVER !! It was the rule at the time and he should not have been creditted with that goal.
NOW........the rules are being interpretted and enforced by the NHL and it's officials on a variety of levels which makes Hull,and other whiney pee holes like him, shout out how unfair it is........ the two faced sonofabiatch didn't say anything about the officiating when he got credit for the goal that won the Dallas Stanley Cup........
Get it straight Hull. Which do you want??
If good calls were on your menu.....how many times would your name be on the cup??
get a real job.....you whiney pee hole.
 
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