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(Reuters)   Pope criticizes science for not protecting human dignity. This from a guy who wears an origami hat   (reuters.com) divider line 231
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4467 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Feb 2008 at 6:24 PM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-02-01 06:47:24 PM
I think he's still annoyed that science invented condom and birth control pills.

And yes, according to the Roman Catholic Church using condom is a sin as is any other method of birth control. They preach this to the people of Africa of course. After all it's vital to human dignity and to god that you die horribly of AIDS because some guy raped you at 10 and the priests told him condoms are evil.
 
2008-02-01 06:47:40 PM
Gah, I fail at quoting...
 
2008-02-01 06:48:27 PM
Shut the fark up you farking Nazi.

How about protecting the human dignity of all the boys raped by members of your church?
 
2008-02-01 06:48:58 PM
I don't even understand what it would mean to say that "science can protect human dignity."

Science is not ethics, and you can't do one by way of doing the other.

I can see how ethics could restrain the practice of science. That makes sense. But what about "science", in and of itself, says one thing or another about human dignity?

If that's true, then, sure, science cannot protect human dignity -- same way it can't protect anything else in the moral realm for that matter.
 
2008-02-01 06:49:10 PM
He also reiterated the Church's stand against artificial insemination. No eggs Benedict for you!

The Church seems to be big on wasting stuff.
 
2008-02-01 06:49:23 PM
science strives to understand reality, nothing more. it wants to know the what and the how. the why is not what it is concerned with.

if you ever feel that reality does not protect or sustain your dignity, your faith, or anything else that you hold dear, then the problem exists purely in that your dignity, faith, or whatever, is not based on reality.

for example, if you believe god created the earth, wonderful. if he did, then he created it as it is, not as someone wrote about it thousands of years ago. if god created the earth, he created every single bit of observable reality that comes with it.
 
2008-02-01 06:52:20 PM
oh but the church is so good at protecting human dignity on issues such as priests diddling boys, celebacy, and women not being allowed to be priests. farking boils my blood.

i haven't been catholic since Sister Felici called me a slut in 1st grade. fark her and the popemobile she rode on.
 
2008-02-01 06:52:53 PM
usera.imagecave.com
 
2008-02-01 06:52:53 PM
My point was that when there was no science, and religion had the uncontested lead in "protecting human dignity," very few people had much opportunity to have much of it, as life was, quite frankly, pretty awful for most people, much of the time.

Periods with scientific progress, e.g., not the middle ages (during which coincidentally, the Catholic Church was one of the foremost world powers, tended to be much better times if you were a fan of human dignity.
 
F42
2008-02-01 06:53:32 PM
nativefloridian: Oh, and for no particular reason:

Came just for that. Congratulation on a farker's job well done.
 
2008-02-01 06:53:39 PM
The Pope is an idiot. So is Bill Clinton, who is also very much against human cloning. I want another copy of me around for non-rejectable spare parts - just a body lolling around in a tank with enough brain stem to stay alive. Come to think of it any religionist who tries to stop science should be condemned and then ignored.
 
2008-02-01 06:54:56 PM
Pixiest: Once again the Catholics are showing us what Luddites they are. If God exists, he gave us a brain so we could figure all these things out. Yet the pope wants us to bury our talents in the ground. Read your own damn book and put away your brown shirt.

I don't know about that - as we all know, the Catholic Church regards abortion as immoral. While I don't want to get into a debate about abortion, their view on using stem-cells derived from fetuses is consistent with that view.

Here's what the Catechism of the Catholic Church has to say:

1755 A morally good act requires the goodness of the object, of the end, and of the circumstances together. An evil end corrupts the action, even if the object is good in itself (such as praying and fasting "in order to be seen by men"). The object of the choice can by itself vitiate an act in its entirety. There are some concrete acts - such as fornication - that it is always wrong to choose, because choosing them entails a disorder of the will, that is, a moral evil.

1756 It is therefore an error to judge the morality of human acts by considering only the intention that inspires them or the circumstances (environment, social pressure, duress or emergency, etc.) which supply their context. There are acts which, in and of themselves, independently of circumstances and intentions, are always gravely illicit by reason of their object; such as blasphemy and perjury, murder and adultery. One may not do evil so that good may result from it.


And they do have an appreciation for intelligence:

283 The question about the origins of the world and of man has been the object of many scientific studies which have splendidly enriched our knowledge of the age and dimensions of the cosmos, the development of life-forms and the appearance of man. These discoveries invite us to even greater admiration for the greatness of the Creator, prompting us to give him thanks for all his works and for the understanding and wisdom he gives to scholars and researchers. With Solomon they can say: "It is he who gave me unerring knowledge of what exists, to know the structure of the world and the activity of the elements. . . for wisdom, the fashioner of all things, taught me."
 
2008-02-01 06:55:37 PM
nativefloridian: Completely unrelated, but I found this in a GIS:
WTF?


It's a piece of art by Maurizio Cattelan called La Nona Oralso or referred to in English as just Pope Struck by a Meteorite.

 
2008-02-01 06:55:59 PM
Yea, because between World Wars, terrorism, and Jewel's music, humanity has plenty of dignity left to be attacked by science...
 
2008-02-01 06:57:48 PM
farm3.static.flickr.com
 
2008-02-01 06:58:12 PM
also i will go on record as saying...

this new pope really creeps me right the fark out. he look way too much like that old guy from poltergeist 2.
 
2008-02-01 06:58:30 PM
img443.imageshack.us
 
2008-02-01 07:00:51 PM
sweettits:
i haven't been catholic since Sister Felici called me a slut in 1st grade. fark her and the popemobile she rode on.


There's gotta be an interesting story behind that. Get caught playing doctor?
 
2008-02-01 07:01:50 PM
damiangerous: nativefloridian: Completely unrelated, but I found this in a GIS:
WTF?

It's a piece of art by Maurizio Cattelan called La Nona Oralso or referred to in English as just Pope Struck by a Meteorite.


That is pretty frickin' sweet!
 
2008-02-01 07:02:17 PM
Ah good ol' religion. The gift that keeps on giving.
 
2008-02-01 07:03:32 PM
jennyz It's a shame that Fark wasn't around when Einstein lived. He'd have made a great Farker. Had an opinion on everything, whether he knew a single, solitary damn thing about it or not.
 
2008-02-01 07:07:06 PM
jennyz:

Way to post apologetic propaganda by theists, for theists, attempting to excuse the church's direct assistance of the Nazi state in tracking down and exterminating Jews. No amount of spin will cover that up.
 
2008-02-01 07:07:32 PM
rockman55: Well, science DOESN'T concern itself with morality. Science is not a humanitarian effort. It concerns itself with physical motion, not human action. Science itself is not at fault; but human use of science leads not only to good things (cures for diseases and Fridgedaires), but also to lots of ills (the atmoic bomb and widespread pollution).

To paraphrase Ian Malcolm, I think too often scientists only think about if they "can" do something, not whether they "should" do something.


Are you implying that human use of religion leads only to good things?
 
2008-02-01 07:10:08 PM
www.cnn.com

Dey see me rollin', dats why dey be hatin'
 
2008-02-01 07:10:21 PM
Remind me again why people give a fark what this guys says? I mean, I'm a pope too and you don't see me quoted in the newspaper every other day giving my opinion on stuff I know nothing about.

/Hail Eris!
 
2008-02-01 07:10:24 PM
co-conspirator
My point was that when there was no science, and religion had the uncontested lead in "protecting human dignity," very few people had much opportunity to have much of it, as life was, quite frankly, pretty awful for most people, much of the time.

Periods with scientific progress, e.g., not the middle ages (during which coincidentally, the Catholic Church was one of the foremost world powers, tended to be much better times if you were a fan of human dignity.


I dig the point. Science discovers truths, and human application of those truths can lead to liberation. Unfortunately, it can also lead to domination. Our own natives here in America would probably disagree that science led to their dignity. If anything, European technology led to their degredation.

I'm just saying that science and progress, on their own, don't lead to dignity. WE may think so, because as westerners (I'm assuming your a Canadian, Brit, or American) have only seen the GOOD of what science has brought us (like my beautiful new 80 gig iPod). But we shouldn't forget that there are plenty of people today and throughout human history who have only seen the negative impact of science. Which - like I said - is not science's fault. It's human USE of science that is at fault. And, unfortunately, science has yet to find a way to quantify and control human action.
 
2008-02-01 07:11:11 PM
As a former Catholic Seminarian I just want to say that perhaps Pope Palpatine would do well to re-read the bit where Jebus says "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone."

I think on the ledger of justice that sheltering and shuffling pedophiles, scaring the crap out of kids with sermons on hell-fire and using lies and the fear of hell to keep people in the third world from using condoms is a bit higher up on the list if things that should be apologized for.

I think Jebus had a few harsh words for hypocrites if I recall.

LauraBelle

Ah good ol' religion. The gift that keeps on giving.

You are soooo full of WIN! Thanks, I LOL'ed.
 
2008-02-01 07:14:18 PM
damiangerous: nativefloridian: Completely unrelated, but I found this in a GIS:
WTF?
It's a piece of art by Maurizio Cattelan called La Nona Oralso or referred to in English as just Pope Struck by a Meteorite.


Should I presume the artist was immediately excommunicated?
 
2008-02-01 07:14:26 PM
"Dignity" is a code word. Mostly used by Catholics. It means "we'd better not offend the sky god by messing with his creation."

The claim of "dignity" of course is empty when used as secular non-code. The scientists don't respond to the dignity complaint by saying "no, we don't care about dignity." Rather, they say "no, human dignity requires that we pursue knowledge that makes life better."

Since everyone is invoking dignity, what is required is an explanation of WHY dignity requires one to act one way or the other. This is something that you can't do in public if what you really secretly mean is "sky god will get mad."
 
2008-02-01 07:17:02 PM
fartacus
rockman55: Well, science DOESN'T concern itself with morality. Science is not a humanitarian effort. It concerns itself with physical motion, not human action. Science itself is not at fault; but human use of science leads not only to good things (cures for diseases and Fridgedaires), but also to lots of ills (the atmoic bomb and widespread pollution).

To paraphrase Ian Malcolm, I think too often scientists only think about if they "can" do something, not whether they "should" do something.

Are you implying that human use of religion leads only to good things?


Oh, good Lord, no. I'm an agnostic myself. I'm all for scientific discovery. But I think too many scientists (just look to people like Watson and Crick) try to make a God out of Science. Like I'm talking about in another thread at the moment, science itself is fine. It's human misuse of science that becomes a problem, in the same way that human misuse of religion has been a problem since antiquity.
 
2008-02-01 07:17:46 PM
Ahhh, anti-Catholicism. The last acceptable prejudice.
 
2008-02-01 07:18:33 PM
Cagey B: He's just mad because they haven't isolated the Molesting Gene yet.

Wow! Boobies is a winner!

The Vatican hates science. Maybe not as much as other religious groups, but nonetheless, the Vatican hates science. What about condoms? The Vatican hates how effective condoms are. The Vatican also hates how effective comprehensive sex education is. That's why Vatican "scientists" are constantly claiming that condoms are porous, and abstinence-only education works.
 
2008-02-01 07:20:41 PM
I understand being Pope requires one to wear many hats
photos1.blogger.com
photos1.blogger.com
photos1.blogger.com
photos1.blogger.com
 
2008-02-01 07:21:25 PM
farkinhelenamt: Ahhh, anti-Catholicism. The last acceptable prejudice.

Nah, all religions are fair game. Atheism too.
 
2008-02-01 07:21:43 PM
What would an insitution who scams people and lies to them, telling them they'll go to an imaginary fire pit if they don't buy into a particular set of irrational beliefs.. what would they know about treating people with dignity?
 
2008-02-01 07:22:14 PM
Telencephalon: "Dignity" is a code word. Mostly used by Catholics. It means "we'd better not offend the sky god by messing with his creation."

The claim of "dignity" of course is empty when used as secular non-code. The scientists don't respond to the dignity complaint by saying "no, we don't care about dignity." Rather, they say "no, human dignity requires that we pursue knowledge that makes life better."

Since everyone is invoking dignity, what is required is an explanation of WHY dignity requires one to act one way or the other. This is something that you can't do in public if what you really secretly mean is "sky god will get mad."


Man, sky god is gonna MESS you up!!
 
2008-02-01 07:22:32 PM
spqr_ca: blue_veiner: yay! catholic hate hour!

Can't stand the heat? Stay out of the kitchen. Perhaps if the Pope were to actually follow the instructions of the one he claims to adore, then nobody would have reason to come down on him.


good one coolio. actually i don't agree with much of what this pope had done so far since he took over. he's pretty much undone everything john paul II accomplished in regards to working on strengthening public relations with those outside of catholocism. and i think many of the higherarchy, especially here in st. louis, is starting to get too extreme in their "it's either you're with us or against us" stance on alot of the social issues we face today. however...its funny to see how people think they're the Weeners the OMG!1111LOL!1 molests altar boys!!!!! whatever, its cool man, that stuff doesn't bother me. now if someone would be kind enough to post the 'help me i'm being persecuted!' pie chart. i know its coming, especially from you unoriginal fukcs.
 
2008-02-01 07:22:42 PM
rockman55: It's human misuse of science that becomes a problem, in the same way that human misuse of religion has been a problem since antiquity.

Yes, and the human misuse of science led to MySpace, which is humans fault (not God's) and science just CANNOT explain why MySpace is so full of dumb.
 
2008-02-01 07:24:50 PM
I think this is an appropriate time for us to...... All Hail His Noodly Appendage!
 
2008-02-01 07:26:10 PM
blue_veiner now if someone would be kind enough to post the 'help me i'm being persecuted!' pie chart. i know its coming, especially from you unoriginal fukcs.

Here's a cool new animated version, from the thread on the MySpace Krystallnacht reenactment.

i140.photobucket.com

/You're welcome...
 
2008-02-01 07:26:12 PM
Pope criticizes science for not protecting human dignity

Oh, by the way, Pope, I thought you might like to know I'm reading about the CRUSADES just now.
 
2008-02-01 07:26:16 PM
aaand owned by the filter
 
2008-02-01 07:26:52 PM
Our own natives here in America would probably disagree that science led to their dignity. If anything, European technology led to their degradation.

I concede that the technological differences between the Europeans and the Native Americans gave the advantage to the visiting team. I would also suggest that there was a much stronger theological drive, under the guise of civilising/saving the savages (alternating with the peculiar concept of "Manifest Destiny" which pretty much advocated their wholesale extermination) that lead to their fate.

There were also abominable abuses of science -- actually the practice of pseudo-science (read Gould's "The Mismeasure of Man" for a nasty summary)-- that were contributing factors.

Science simply gives us the tools to make peoples' lives better. Without it , that's a much, much, much more difficult task.
 
2008-02-01 07:27:00 PM
TwilightZone
Pope criticizes science for not protecting human dignity.

Science criticizes the pope for protecting pedophiles.


THIS

/religion = mythology
 
2008-02-01 07:28:18 PM
blue_veiner: molests altar boys!!!!! whatever, its cool man, that stuff doesn't bother me.


That *should* bother you. My mother stopped going to church over it. If not for the fact that the system sets you up to trust completely in a fallible person as if they were "holy", but also that the church hierarchy has completely failed to act appropriately on this. It should bother you a lot.

/Sheeple.
 
2008-02-01 07:29:35 PM
Bhasayate
Yes, and the human misuse of science led to MySpace, which is humans fault (not God's) and science just CANNOT explain why MySpace is so full of dumb.

My point exactly :) But I'd be open to an equation for it. I think the Dumb (D) is a function of total hours of MySpace-usage (U). I'll keep working on it.
 
2008-02-01 07:29:38 PM
Recidivism Repeat Offender!: TwilightZone
Pope criticizes science for not protecting human dignity.

Science criticizes the pope for protecting pedophiles.

THIS

/religion = mythology


How is it that science criticizes pedophilia.

Religion and mythology have different definitions for a reason --- one doesn't reduce to the other.
 
2008-02-01 07:30:41 PM
rockman55: Bhasayate
Yes, and the human misuse of science led to MySpace, which is humans fault (not God's) and science just CANNOT explain why MySpace is so full of dumb.

My point exactly :) But I'd be open to an equation for it. I think the Dumb (D) is a function of total hours of MySpace-usage (U). I'll keep working on it.


hehe
 
2008-02-01 07:30:58 PM
acefox1: As a former Catholic Seminarian [...] Jebus says...

Did they not cover the accepted spellings?

Your claims of authority have been Denied.
 
2008-02-01 07:31:25 PM
Do has he also accused addition and subtraction of not protecting human dignity? Because frankly, that makes about as much sense.
 
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