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(Slate)   Dear rich people, it's time for you to save the economy   (slate.com ) divider line
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3411 clicks; posted to Business » on 23 Jan 2008 at 9:59 AM (8 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-01-23 07:56:02 AM  
THIS
 
2008-01-23 08:13:44 AM  
Dear poor people.

We recognize your necessity, we really do. After all, how does one measure how rich one is, if not by comparison? It's no fun to be rich if everyone else is also, who would we lord it over?

Anyway, let's get down to brass tacks. It's not our fault that you max your credit cards. Who took that extra home equity line out and blew it on a plasma TV that you can't really afford? Not me. Anyway, we're tired of getting shat upon at every turn. Everything spending related is cheap to you because you don't have to pay for it. You know who the dumbass trophy wives are in our relationship? You. You just want, want, want, and you want us to pay for it. Do you have any concept of how much stuff costs? No, you do not. Do you have any intention of paying for any of it? No, you do not. Get "The Rich" to do it. Do you think you should have to suffer the consequences of your own actions? No, you do not. "The Rich" should pay for it.

In short, we've paid for enough, and your tits are getting saggy, my dumbass trophy wife. Time for a new model. Go f*ck yourselves.

Sincerely,

The Rich
 
2008-01-23 08:13:58 AM  
No.

People get rich by saving money, not blowing it all away.
 
2008-01-23 08:22:26 AM  
bargled: People get rich by saving money, not blowing it all away.

That's not true at all. You don't get rich by saving money, you can stay rich by saving money though. To get rich you need to take risks and invest either your money or someone else's money in the hopes of turning that money into more money. No matter how much a guy with a family of four making $50,000 a year saves he will never be "rich" unless he comes into some increased source of income or he gambles what little money he has to make it into more money (start a business, invest in the markets, wager on the ponies, etc.).
 
2008-01-23 08:24:52 AM  
EatHam: Dear poor people.

. . .

Sincerely,

The Rich


That's all well and good. However, less well off people spending money (along with well off people) keep the economy moving. What would happen if lower-middle-class to upper-middle-class people stopped buying anything but the necessities to live?

Sure, the rich would help out with the luxury items (eg the HD TV you mention), but in the end it's the people who live paycheck to paycheck that keep the economy moving.

I mean seriously, could the top 1% of earners really spend all that money? Yes they could. And if they spent it on things at home, it would be helpful.
 
2008-01-23 08:37:04 AM  
Wait... SLATE!!! is arguing for trickle down economics? what planet are we on now?
 
2008-01-23 08:40:37 AM  
capecodcarl: That's not true at all. You don't get rich by saving money, you can stay rich by saving money though. To get rich you need to take risks and invest either your money or someone else's money in the hopes of turning that money into more money.

I've been thinking about doing something along these lines. Buy a run-down duplex, do some renovations (myself) and rent it out. Problem is, this takes operating capitol, which I don't have.

But yes, you don't get rich by saving money, you get rich by investing money.
 
2008-01-23 08:44:24 AM  
THe rich are rich because of decisions they've made in life and the poor are poor because of the decisions they've made in life.
 
2008-01-23 08:51:08 AM  
capecodcarl: No matter how much a guy with a family of four making $50,000 a year saves he will never be "rich" unless he comes into some increased source of income or he gambles what little money he has to make it into more money

That is false. Due to the miracle of compound interest, one can become quite wealthy over the course of many years, with minimal risk if one spends less than one earns.
 
2008-01-23 09:02:59 AM  
Stock market is on it's arse again.

Nobody needs over a billion dollars.
 
2008-01-23 09:08:44 AM  
RabidDog: Nobody needs over a billion dollars.

Nobody needs any more than what is necessary to keep them barely hanging on to life. What's your point?
 
2008-01-23 09:10:07 AM  
Dear Middle Class:

Stop buying shiat you don't need and can't afford.

Sincerely,
The "Rich" Middle Class

P.S. Making six figures a year doesn't make you rich if you don't live in Kansas.
 
2008-01-23 09:15:03 AM  
RobertBruce: Wait... SLATE!!! is arguing for trickle down economics? what planet are we on now?

I read TFA as more of an indictment of its failure.
 
2008-01-23 09:16:37 AM  
ThatGuyGreg: P.S. Making six figures a year doesn't make you rich if you don't live in Kansas.

For the purposes of class warfare, it most certainly does. In fact, that makes you ultra wealthy. Surely you can't have done anything to deserve such a princely sum of money. You must have made that off of the backs of the proletariat. We've seen time and time again how stupid rich people are with their money, versus how wise poor people are with it. That's why taking from the rich and giving to the poor works so well.
 
2008-01-23 09:23:27 AM  
Dear Eatham,

We outnumber you 100,000 to 1 and will gladly kill you and take your stuff to burn for heat.

It's an ongoing, world wide, tradition dating back thousands of years.


,the poor
 
2008-01-23 09:27:09 AM  
Dear poor:

Burning valuables for heat is what keeps you poor. Next time, remember this valuable protip: valuables are valuable. With money, you can purchase heat, and a house. Please do not attempt to eat the faberge eggs either, they will give you the shiats.

,the rich
 
2008-01-23 09:49:03 AM  
dogdaze: THe rich are rich because of decisions they've made in life and the poor are poor because of the decisions they've made in life.

By and large, the best decision is to be born to rich parents. That's how most of them did it.
 
2008-01-23 09:58:28 AM  
EvilEgg: By and large, the best decision is to be born to rich parents. That's how most of them did it.

False.
 
2008-01-23 10:01:02 AM  
EatHam: False.

True.
 
2008-01-23 10:03:51 AM  
ThatGuyGreg: Dear Middle Class:

Stop buying shiat you don't need and can't afford.

Sincerely,
The "Rich" Middle Class

P.S. Making six figures a year doesn't make you rich if you don't live in Kansas.


THIS!
 
2008-01-23 10:10:21 AM  
EvilEgg: EatHam: False.

True.


Having eaten eggs and bacon this morning, this back n' forth brings me great joy.
 
2008-01-23 10:13:08 AM  
EvilEgg: True.

If you attempt to prove it, you will learn something.
 
2008-01-23 10:13:54 AM  
EvilEgg

EatHam is correct. Most rich are NOT born to the rich. Its a decade old now but read The Millionaire Next Door.

Wonderful book. capecodcarl needs to read it too. Its a study of American millionaires and how they behave (mostly financially, but in other ways too). You dont have to behave in the way they do in all things to get rich (and I wouldnt), but there are a lot of behavioral patterns in the book that people need to learn. A big one being "if you aint got the money for it, you cant afford it".
 
2008-01-23 10:22:00 AM  
Tjos Weel: Its a study of American millionaires

Pfft, a million dollars hardly makes you rich anymore. Upper middle class is where that puts you.
 
2008-01-23 10:24:34 AM  
What would happen if lower-middle-class to upper-middle-class people stopped buying anything but the necessities to live?

Consumption can never exceed production. If everyone (especially the poor/middle class) lives within their means, then one of two (or both) things happens:

1. People who loan money, who are willing to put off current consumption to increase future consumption, cant get as great a return on their loans. Interest rates drop. Some people decide to consume now because waiting isnt worth much anymore.

2. Prices drop due to decreased demand, the people with extra money consume more because of lower prices, a new equilibrium is reached.

Really the two above are part of the same thing. When something is purchased on credit card, somewhere down the chain someone is paying for it now. You are just trading your current consumption for even less future consumption and they are doing the opposite.

In the short term, if ALL OF A SUDDEN people started living within their means, it would disrupt the economy. But an increase in people decreasing their debt spending wouldnt hurt the economy one bit.
 
2008-01-23 10:25:40 AM  
EvilEgg: EatHam: False.

True.


It all depends on how you define rich.
Most millionaires are first generation. But I am willing to bet a good number of them come from upper middle class families.

If you consider 70k a year to be rich, then it may be true that most rich people come from rich families.
 
2008-01-23 10:26:08 AM  
EvilEgg

With a million dollars in assets I can generate over 100k in income without working. That puts my lazy ass in upper middle class. When I can play golf everyday and still live a uber-confortable life, Im rich.
 
2008-01-23 10:26:25 AM  
I was going to say what crunch-o-matic said.

Reminder to the rich:
 
2008-01-23 10:27:44 AM  
Second try:

members.klosterneuburg.net
 
2008-01-23 10:28:27 AM  
You're the jerk... jerk

It all depends on how you define rich.

True.

if you consider 70k a year to be rich

Income doesnt define rich or poor. Assets do. Whatever you want to set it at, its wealth that matters not income. There is a reason it is easier to become a millionaire plumber than a millionaire lawyer.
 
2008-01-23 10:29:43 AM  
Dear The Rich:

If the economy slips to the point that resembles Weimar Germany or Russia around 1916, us poor folks (especially the Liters) like to burn things.

Especially big palaces, or homes.

Just reminding you.

-The Liters
 
2008-01-23 10:30:52 AM  
Tjos Weel: With a million dollars in assets I can generate over 100k in income without working.

How's that been going the last couple of days? :)
 
2008-01-23 10:33:01 AM  
Dynascape: -The Liters

ha ha ha.....just try getting over my moat filled with fire breathing alligators....I dare you. Plebes.
 
2008-01-23 10:36:35 AM  
EvilEgg

How's that been going the last couple of days?

Just fine, thanks for asking. Im not yet a millionaire (notice the yet). I invest for the long term. I dont even notice crap like the last few days, except to realize its (the start of) a buying opportunity, except (the exception to my exception) I dont even try to time the market, I dont have that skill. Regular investment means you buy low and you buy high. The stock market is not the economy. The economy worries me, that can impact how much money I make at my job. The stock market will be fine.
 
2008-01-23 10:38:55 AM  
Making a lot of money in a booming economy through taking advantage of tax breaks and imaginary future equity pyramid schemes has made a lot of people rich over the last decade.

Many of those people are going to become poor because they are arrogant and stupid and have never had to make a living in a non-boom economy. Living within your means is a skill the poor have raised to a high art.

You can blather all you want about welfare mothers with plasma TVs but the fact is that most people in the US are poor because the minimum wage is not enough to pay for housing and food. A huge number of those living in poverty are elderly, children and/or ill and are unable to get work at any wage.

Any financial gain made by people in depressed areas is usually due to the blackmarket. Selling crack can give you a large expendable income - hence the dichotomy of fancy cars in a slum.

You see very few elderly driving their plasma TVs home in their Cadillacs. The elderly poor - many of whom worked hard and saved all of their lives cannot survive in an economy with rising prices for food and fuel.

This country has no respect for the elderly and no sense of responsibility for the young. It is a disgrace.
 
2008-01-23 10:41:13 AM  
quickdraw: the fact is that most people in the US are poor because the minimum wage is not enough to pay for housing and food.

Congratulations, that is the stupidest thing I have heard so far this week.
 
2008-01-23 10:43:11 AM  
benlonghair
That's all well and good. However, less well off people spending money (along with well off people) keep the economy moving.

Well, it's good to see the Keynesian demand-siders have shown up. Of course, this sort of idiocy is what got us into this mess in the first place.

"The economy is slowing down, and it is poor and middle-class spending that keep the economy moving, so let's lower interest rates so they'll spend, spend, spend!"

Yeah, great idea. Of course, it's pure crap, and destroys the economy, but whatever.

/Spending doesn't drive the economy
//Production and investment do
 
2008-01-23 10:44:52 AM  
Tjos Weel: Income doesnt define rich or poor.

Tell that to the tax man.
 
2008-01-23 10:46:32 AM  
Cato: benlonghair
That's all well and good. However, less well off people spending money (along with well off people) keep the economy moving.

Well, it's good to see the Keynesian demand-siders have shown up. Of course, this sort of idiocy is what got us into this mess in the first place.

"The economy is slowing down, and it is poor and middle-class spending that keep the economy moving, so let's lower interest rates so they'll spend, spend, spend!"

Yeah, great idea. Of course, it's pure crap, and destroys the economy, but whatever.

/Spending doesn't drive the economy
//Production and investment do


Oh yeah, go produce and invest in a bunch of shiat no one can afford to buy. Works great!

Demand drives the economy.
 
2008-01-23 10:46:37 AM  
ThatGuyGreg

Tell that to the tax man.

Ive got some things I would like to tell the tax man.

That said, income defines tax rate. I havent seen the words "rich" or "poor" on my 1040, how about you?
 
2008-01-23 10:48:34 AM  
To summarize the thread:

Everyone who is poor is a victem of circumstance
- vs -
I became wealthy through hard work hence all poor people are lazy
 
2008-01-23 10:50:04 AM  
MisterRPG: I became wealthy through hard work hence all poor people are lazy

I'd rephrase that. A statistically insignificant number of poor people got that way for reasons other than poor decision making.
 
2008-01-23 10:50:18 AM  
EatHam: quickdraw: the fact is that most people in the US are poor because the minimum wage is not enough to pay for housing and food.

Congratulations, that is the stupidest thing I have heard so far this week.


Really? I know you're a troll and all but still - you should display some sort of basic reasoning or your argument falls pretty flat. Somebody needs to mop the floors you walk on and cook the fries you eat. Could you live on $8.00 an hour? You can be single and work full time and still qualify for foodstamps.

Blowhards like you can fantasize all they want about the causes of poverty but the truth is there are many hardworking folks who try hard to live within their means and can't do it no matter how many hours they spend mopping.
 
2008-01-23 10:50:45 AM  
The rich can help by not panicking and dumping stocks on every bad news they hear. Why are they selling stocks when the market is going down and then buying stocks when the market goes up. What happen to that old saying 'buy low, sell high'?
 
2008-01-23 10:51:15 AM  
EatHam: MisterRPG: I became wealthy through hard work hence all poor people are lazy

I'd rephrase that. A statistically insignificant number of poor people got that way for reasons other than poor decision making.


Citation?
 
2008-01-23 10:52:10 AM  
hugram

Who says its the rich that are dumping stocks?
 
2008-01-23 10:53:15 AM  
quickdraw: Making a lot of money in a booming economy through taking advantage of tax breaks and imaginary future equity pyramid schemes has made a lot of people rich over the last decade.

Many of those people are going to become poor because they are arrogant and stupid and have never had to make a living in a non-boom economy. Living within your means is a skill the poor have raised to a high art.

You can blather all you want about welfare mothers with plasma TVs but the fact is that most people in the US are poor because the minimum wage is not enough to pay for housing and food. A huge number of those living in poverty are elderly, children and/or ill and are unable to get work at any wage.

Any financial gain made by people in depressed areas is usually due to the blackmarket. Selling crack can give you a large expendable income - hence the dichotomy of fancy cars in a slum.

You see very few elderly driving their plasma TVs home in their Cadillacs. The elderly poor - many of whom worked hard and saved all of their lives cannot survive in an economy with rising prices for food and fuel.

This country has no respect for the elderly and no sense of responsibility for the young. It is a disgrace.


are you okay? It seems as if your heart is leaking all over this thread.
 
2008-01-23 10:54:47 AM  
EatHam: A statistically insignificant

Where are your statistics coming from?
 
2008-01-23 10:54:55 AM  
can we start burning things yet?
 
2008-01-23 10:57:00 AM  
kingflower:
are you okay? It seems as if your heart is leaking all over this thread.


Its just the facts.
 
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