Hope you have a blessed festival of Samhain.

You too, Wanda! Happy New Year!

For the record, The names "Jesus" and "Christ" are not found in the Hebrews Scriptures. This is because both these names are English translations from the Greek. Joshua is "Yehoshua" or "Yeshua". We do find the name "Christ" as well as the name "Jesus" in the Tanakh(Old Testament) in their written Hebrew forms.

In the days of His earthly life, no one ever spoke of Him as "Jesus", "Christ", "Jesus Christ" or "Christ Jesus". This, of course, is a translation.

When they came to the name "Joshua" they translated it as "Yesous" written with a circumflex over it to show there has been a suppression of a Hebrew letter that could not be expressed in Greek. When Joshua went into Canaan, he was called "Yehoshua" ("Jehovah is the Savior" or "Jehovah Saves"). That is exactly what the word "Jesus" means "Savior".

The Greek word "Christos" for Christ means, "Anointed" or "anointed one".

Therefore, the title "Yeshua haMeshiach" ("Jesus, the Christ") can be translated as "Jehovah is the Anointed Saviour" or the "Anointed Savior is Jehovah".

MAN! White people will believe ANYTHING!

/Jesus looked like an A-rab.

You folks must have a lot of time to waste. You'll only know for shore when you're dead. Chomp on that.

To add another post, I personally don't understand why Christians aren't Jewish. Jesus was Jewish right? Aren't we supposed to try and be like him? Confused.

43% - Shut up shut up shut up! Santa is still alive! *runs out of room sobbing*

Big Al:
Maybe those people who don't know he actually existed should try paying attention in history class.

Religion is a load of crap.

you can all suck my ass

Even if you don't believe in religion or not, if everyone walked around as atheist, without a care in the world, there would be even more violence and corruption than there is right now. Religion makes a lot of people, whether you like it or not, be good people.

So, I'll just keep my personal preference out of it, and say I'm thankful people do believe in it.

not to mention virgina

So just because some ancient asshat inscribed something onto stone means that it's true if found in the future?

News Update for the future? Surrender! You'll never be able to figure us out by what's inscribed and printed on things.

Farking religious hopefulls. They really need to put their efforts into more constructive things, like making me pie!

Biotch!

"Religion makes a lot of people, whether you like it or not, be good people."

And it makes people fly planes into building too.



"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it with religious conviction." -- Blaise Pascal

Notice I said, "A LOT of people" I didn't say all. People who are insane asshats don't count in the "a lot of people" category.

Nothing in Islam, Buddhist, and Christianity (I'm sure more, sorry if I left it out) says kill anyone. If people take it as that, then they've misinterpreted it, and are insane.

"A LOT of people", how many? Are armies enough?

Zundian

Thank you for that, very interesting.

Fine. I'm replacing "a lot of people" with "a lot of SANE people who aren't going to kill people who aren't a different religion...."

Damn! The second "aren't" is "are."

I seem to have gotten buried by later posters, so I will try this again...

Most of the arguments that all of you people seem to be having over the meaning/nonmeaning of existence can be boiled down to a few statements. One of which is..."What is Faith?"

What is faith? In simple terms, faith is the belief in something regardless whether it has been proven or not.

Today, in the Western world, two worldviews are fighting for control of the thoughts and minds of an entire society.

One is the secular, naturalistic worldview - using cause and effect, rationalism, and empherical methods to justify its reasoning.

The other is the theistic, supernatural worldview - using Godly decree, trust, faith, and miracles to justify its reasoning.

Now from our lofty viewpoint over all of humanity here, we can see two diverging paths. What has yet to be proven however, is which one is right. Both sides have scored exactly the same number of points so far. Secularism enjoys the hometeam advantage, but historically, theism has won in the past.

Now I ask you: which one is right by empherical proof? Neither.

The same brutal logic dictated by the secularists defeats its own purpose when applied to its own ideas of creation. There is no empherical proof for the metaphysical creation exposed by the neo-Darwin systhesis in the modern day theory of naturalistic creation with genetics. (For a more indepth response to this claim I have made, consult the excellent book "Darwin on Trial" I would post the more relevant parts here, but I do not wish to type for the rest of the evening.)

Likewise, the faith claims given by religion are tattered and torn. Many people have twisted religion down skewed paths that its creators would never have imagined and would never have allowed. Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Daoism, Hinduism...all have been used to justify violence to the fellow man, all have been the root cause of many of the inequities found in society today.

So...which way is right? Since neither side can prove its point from a scientific point of view, the people involved must be believing on faith.

One last point. I hate the "intellectual superiority" complex that the rational darwinists often use. Their own ego comes on the line in a rational discourse, so they refuse to consider evidence to the contrary. (This is a blanket statement, however I have seen the tactic often enough to safely employ this statement. However, I do not wish to imply that everyone believing in a naturalistic point of origin is like this...only many)

I likewise hate the religious fundamentalists who refuse to even consider the words coming out of the mouths of some people. They often quote scripture to justify their point, while forgetting that to a layman, the scripture means nothing - and whatever wisdom lies within becomes nonsense. They tie their entire worldview around their religion and lose their sense of place in the society around them. As they do that, they lose credibility because they cannot readily relate to the questions asked of them.

That is the end of my little speech. For those who are interested, I am a practicing Christian. I believe through faith, that Jesus was the Son of God who came to earth to build a bridge back to the creator of the universe. Again, I believe this by faith, my own experiences, and my own ideals and thoughts. I cannot logically justify my belief, but many people cannot either - regardless of which side of the fence you sit on.

"First evidence of Jesus' existence"?! Bullshiat, they've known he existed for years! There's a thing called Romans wrote! They've got letters from soldiers talking about some Jesus dude they crucified, and the big hullabaloo about him.
/rant
I just wanted to use the word "hullabaloo"

"If Jesus is coming again, what's His refractory period?" Bob Black

DhaliClone RRRIIIIGGGHHT... Only god fearin'people can behave nice!

About the only time I hear about atheists and legal issues is when we fight for OUR rights.

We (atheists) don't bomb clinics.... do suicide bombings... nail people to crosses.

We leave THOSE activities to the professionls! Religious, self-righteous farking A$$HOLES!!!

/rant

LogicsFist- Darwin on trial was a pathetic work by a fundie trying to cling to his faith. His only points are in that we are still ignorant of some processes. He can't actualy prove or disprove anything.

Slikrx- I'm with you on that. If you have to believe in hell to make you act ethically, you're a sad person. I would hope empathy would be enough.

Did DhaliClone say only God fearing people can behave nice? Is that an example of the "finely tuned" athiest mind which rejects religion? Even the religious loony toons have basic reading comprehention.

And athiests don't bomb clinics or do suicide bombings or nail people to crosses; they starve millions of people "for the greater good," commit genocide, run over protestors with tanks, and draft dooms-day scenarios should their government ever fall.

Oh, wait: that's a gross generalization. Oh well, seems that's the cool thing for us athiests to do these days.

heh, "us" athiests. I'd sooner turn to religion than turn to a fellow athiest.

If you have to believe in hell to make you act ethically, you're a sad person. I would hope empathy would be enough.

You missed the point entirely. People aren't supposed to become a Christian or Muslim to avoid Hell: they are supposed to become a Christian or Muslim to become closer to a God which we betrayed.

As much as I hate to point out what's already been said, jesus was a relativly common name. We know a jesus existed, and one went preaching sometime, but thats about it.

NorthVentricle
Like it or not however, it's a widely held belief among many millions, on a level of faith, which is something that I for one don't understand. I'm not going to contradict something that another has faith in, unless of course contrary proof is provided. I would also not go so far as to doubt your faith in the opposite...unless contrary proof is provided.

I don't have "faith in the opposite". What I have is a lack of faith in any sort of divinity. I see your point about contrary proof, but really the burden of proof is on those making the claim, not the other way around. I really don't mind most religious people I've met, it just seems to me that moving from the sun god to the "one god" was just superstition becoming more sophisticated to keep up with human society. If any religion is right, I'd love for it to be the Buddhists, Discordians, or SubGenii. The Christian god doesn't sound like such a swell guy to me, I'd hate to have it turn out that he's for real.

FifthColumn- but you want to get close to said god or gods in order to avoid hell or else what would be the point? To have another drinking buddy (though he(it) would certainly have no trouble picking up the tab)?

FifthColumn
heh, "us" athiests. I'd sooner turn to religion than turn to a fellow athiest.

You're going to have a lot of explaining to do your first day in church...

Guy Innagorillasuit- right on, I really hope hope they're wrong because i don't want to know what a guy who would hang is own son up like a slab of meat would do to me.

Silly people... That doesn't say Jesus (Gee-zus), It says, Jesus(hay-zues). It's an old box from Mexico. Silly People...

fifth column "Did DhaliClone say only God fearing people can behave nice? "

Uh, pretty much: "if everyone walked around as atheist, without a care in the world, there would be even more violence and corruption than there is right now. "

10-21-02 04:33:39 PM Bevets
How do you figure he pulled off that resurrection from the dead trick?

Probably the same way that Mohammed split the moon.

Qur'an 54:1

Narrated Abdullah:

The moon was cleft asunder while we were in the company of the Prophet, and it became two parts. The Prophet said, Witness, witness (this miracle)."

BlinkingSun- you've solved the mystery! Cookies for BlinkingSun

Hey All you Non-Believers!
The Gospel (Gnostic and otherwise)is meant to be studied.
not
perused like that dog-eared National Enquirererer thats been sitting beside yer Sheeeyiter for months. Or that Daily Newspaper in yer breakroom.

Open your eyes

The Word is for our benefit.
It,(for the most part) is the Gist(Grist?) of the ages.

Yes it may have been perverted and twisted by some through time....BUT. If you take some time in silence to really....
Really reflect on God...

God will reflect back on you.

I have a hard time time with Literalists. Literalists and people who misspell religion three times in one sentence.

Hate The Sin
Love The Sinner

-The Doobie Brother

Hell isn't a place. It's a state of being. The same with Heaven.

The Christian theosophy I've grown to know doesn't speak of a Hellish life (all suffering) followed by Heaven or a Heavenly life (all hedonism) followed by Hell. It speaks of an eternal spirit that lives on the same as in life, and that may be Hell, depending on who you think you are and who you really are at your very core.

Jesus is important because he represents the ultimate victory over a life of compromises and dishonesty and sin. And his sacrifice is the embodiment of the unfailing mercy of God over the whole of humanity and all its shortcomings.

In the Christian religion there are a lot of words like: grace, worship, and sin, and prayer, that have a significantly different, more 3-dimensional meaning from that which is ascribed to it by the outside world (and even some within the religion). Unfortunately these words and their meanings are often relegated to mere superstition and balderdash, but to ignore them and the reason Jesus came is to shrink your personal dictionary in the same way the State shrank the public's dictionary in George Orwell's 1984.

KingKnave- I have no problem with the more metaphysical interpretations of religion (although I am athiest), my beef is mainly with the literalist and fundies (I will argue against others but not right here) who claim that theirs is the only one, and in pursuit of this lose track of the moralist nature of nearly any religion. I have great respect for Ghandi (is that how you spell it?) who said he was of all religions, and it really didn't matter what you thought.

even if it is proven to be genuine, i'm still not gonna send my kids to ass-raping class- uh i mean church, so i couldn't care less.
on the other hand, if they can find the lost arc of the covenent, i'll sign up to kill some nazis. ...because that's what god wants, right? ...for us to kill people who wouldn't accept him as lord and send him money, right?

...look, even if jesus was alive, i'm pretty sure he wasn't the son of god, because as a species, we've learned that babies are made when semen fertilizes an egg.
if some chick says she never had sex, and later gives birth to a child, it means she had sex, and is ashamed to admit it, for people will think she's a slut.
but i guess if someone throws out a suggestion like "well, maybe god knocked her up...", it's probably a good idea to go along with it, or else get stoned to death for infidelity.
any bible-thumpers who don't like logic and prefer tall tales and ghost stories, please fark off and leave me alone.

I found the skeleton of a 6 armed man with an elephant's head... You don't see me putting it in a Dot head magazine...

Jesus built my hotrod.

A good book whether you're religious or not. "Ideas and Opinions", a collection of Einstein's essays.

well, I doubt anyone's still reading, and someone's already said this, but a woman CAN bear children without having been "deflowered"...maybe she and her husband were kinky biatches...

A somewhat odd book (but still good) is "The story of my epperiments with Truth", Gandhi's autobiography. The guy is far too modest though.

Sandelaphon-
I began to respond to yer post to me. I had a thoughtful missive all polished and ready to go but then I went off-site to get a proper spelling....and I lost it.
I lost my...CAT DEMN MISSIVE....lol

The word was Travail.
( I'm such a knave!)

Shuh but to ignore them and the reason Jesus came is to shrink your personal dictionary in the same way the State shrank the public's dictionary in George Orwell's 1984.

So you're familiar with satyagraha, the eightfold path, and other religions good points? Or to paraphrase a quote, do you only disrespect one less religion than a rabid atheist?

here is how i approach my atheism

atheism to me says that whatever the answer is, we dont know it yet, arent meant to know it, and are wasting our time and energy seeking it. Enjoy life, dont kill your neighbors, and seek knowledge and understanding. Whatever god is up there will not comdemn you to hell or hades or limbo simply over lack of faith, surely not for not paying your monetary dues.

If there is such a god, he is hardly worth worship or praise. All i would have for such a childish attitude would be contempt and distrust.

Im often amused by the christians who proclaim faith merely to "hedge their bets" like your god is going to be fooled by your half-hearted faith.

What if the aztechs were right & we're all going to hell because we didnt sacrifice our virgin daughters on the spring equinox? What if the norse were right & we're all going to hell because we didnt die in honorable battle? What if the muslims are right & we're all sinning everytime we let our wives out of the house without a veil?

I dont suppose they care to hedge their bets against that one.

What I don't understand is how people can have so much anger towards religion?

I see so much pure hatred towards something that is trying to teach love. Are we that afraid of happiness and/or love?

I don't hate atheists? Why do they hate me?