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(Discovery)   Evidence of Jesus' existence found   ( divider line
    More: Unlikely  
•       •       •

151 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Oct 2002 at 2:50 PM (14 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

567 Comments     (+0 »)

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2002-10-21 03:32:44 PM  
If anyone is interested a historical analysis of who Jesus was can be found in this book. Anyone else read this? Very interesting stuff...
2002-10-21 03:32:45 PM  
no Buddy Jesus pics yet?

2002-10-21 03:34:17 PM  
Hey, I am with you, wigglepuppy. I, too am an atheist. Just curious, is anyone going to the march on Nov 2nd? This story seems a bit far-fetched. Yes, there could have been a man going around saying he was the son of that invisible force in the sky. But think about it, he prob wasn't the only one. I am sure that there were PLENTY of other guys saying the same thing. SO, basically, who cares!
2002-10-21 03:35:12 PM  
Itchyredness: Sick. Well done! ;)
2002-10-21 03:35:12 PM  

*goes nuclear*
2002-10-21 03:35:13 PM  
We already have abundant evidence.

Luke 1.1 Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

John 20.31 But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

I Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles;
2002-10-21 03:35:19 PM  
I thought Jesus existed, but God's existence was in doubt.

But are we sure they were referring to the right Jesus? Did they confirm his social security number? Drivers' license? Was it Jesus of nazareth or Jesus of Aramathea, or some other area? Who knows how many Jesus' there were back then, after all--there are a ton in Mexico.
2002-10-21 03:35:41 PM  
Arkingfass, she was supposed to knock 2 times on the pipe if the answer was no. In case you were still interested in knowing.
2002-10-21 03:37:29 PM  
[image from too old to be available]

2002-10-21 03:37:29 PM  
"Hi, I'm an atheist and i'm too cool for you.

Check it out, I believe in nothing! The world is so horrible, lets do nothing about it but sit on our hands and not care, I love wasting my life. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!! I r0x0r ur s0x0rs."
2002-10-21 03:37:33 PM  
Hey faggot, why not get some actual facts and sources? Have you ever looked up John 3:16, Jesus saves. That proves his existance for me.

Hmm, you're making an argument based on a book that justifies itself through circular reasoning (The bible is true because it says so). Do you have no logic?
2002-10-21 03:39:23 PM  
Head line should read:

More Evidence of Jesus existence found
2002-10-21 03:40:16 PM  
Jesus voted for Nixon (twice).

2002-10-21 03:40:46 PM  
Bbcrackmonkey, I don't want to hear any more scientific facts about X chromosomes and Y chromosomes and why Jesus couldn't have been born to a virgin. This is a RELIGIOUS thread, not a fact-based thread. If we let you go on this, next thing you'll bring up is the carbon-dating proving that the shroud of Turin is a fake

.....another case of one person ruining it for everyone else.
2002-10-21 03:40:50 PM  
"Jesus Christ Mary the kid turned the wine into water again."
2002-10-21 03:40:51 PM  
On permanent display in Notre Dame's treasury in Paris is purportedly a wood chip and a nail from the actual cross Jesus was crucified on. Also displayed on occasion are parts of the actual Crown of Thorns Jesus wore just before crucifixion (only displayed on Good Friday and the first Friday of every month, according to the church).

But I haven't read stories of archaeologists dating these or otherwise researching their history. Seems like more items to add to those requiring a stretch on the "I believe" side whose authenticity is suspect, like the Shroud of Turin.
2002-10-21 03:41:22 PM  
PS: I'm really Buddhist.
2002-10-21 03:41:35 PM  
Jesus was a prophet of love, compassion, and tolerance and I'll kill anyone who thinks differently!
2002-10-21 03:43:11 PM  
10-21-02 03:37:29 PM Smookyfufu
"Hi, I'm an atheist and i'm too cool for you.

Check it out, I believe in nothing! The world is so horrible, lets do nothing about it but sit on our hands and not care, I love wasting my life. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!! I r0x0r ur s0x0rs."

That's not a very nice attitude.
2002-10-21 03:43:18 PM  
Ranxerox -- Thanks. I was beginning to doubt that Tony Orlando had ever existed.
2002-10-21 03:44:12 PM  

according to the bible I have here...and I am an agnostic, by the way...
Luke 1:1 says "believed to be among us" not "fulfilled".

Translation of archaeic text is very subjective, no?
2002-10-21 03:44:13 PM  
Bass555, the writing about Jesus by Josephus was a forged.
2002-10-21 03:44:14 PM  
Heck, He lives next door to me. Almost every night I
hear my neighbor say, "Jesus H. Christ, are you drunk again?"
2002-10-21 03:44:47 PM  
Hey, I know a guy his name is James and his fathers name is Joseph and he has a friend named Jesus (hey zues), (no joke) so what does this mean? Nothing, /end point/
2002-10-21 03:44:57 PM  

1. Most farkers don't doubt that Jesus really existed.
2. A lot of farkers say, "sure, he existed, but what he did on Earth is unknown." ie: he may or may not be what the Bible says he is.

thanks for coming! have a safe ride home.
2002-10-21 03:45:30 PM  
And the "over" wins!!!!
2002-10-21 03:45:39 PM  
"Hey faggot, why not get some actual facts and sources? Have you ever looked up John 3:16, Jesus saves. That proves his existance for me."

Hmmm. Texas. Figures. (Apologies to TexasSceptic)
2002-10-21 03:45:39 PM  
Northern Wrote:
"I read an interesting thread on an Xtian web site about Biblical historical accuracy. They actually listed all of the rational explanations, such as Mary got knocked up, and Joseph went with her to another town because she would have been stoned to death, she had the baby in secret, and pretended they were married as a cover. It could have actually been her father or other relative who pretended to be her husband until they could ditch Jesus. So big J ends up in an orphan home, comes back a woo woo years later, and gets nailed to a cross. A hundred years later, a bunch of guys get together, write his biography, call it the Bible, and the rest is hi$tory."

Dumbest thing I've ever read. Search for the Gospel of Zeno, etc. The early life of Christ was actually well-documented. However, some of his exploits as a child did not make the final-cut of King James version of the Bible. Read..... all 8 year old kids do crazy things, Son of God or not.
2002-10-21 03:45:47 PM  
Cryinoutloud: I think you're the first person to ever accuse Bbcrackmonkey of using facts. We usually yell at him because he spews tirades of factless garbage--like a sermon from Falwell or Pat Roberts, for instance.
2002-10-21 03:46:09 PM  
10-21-02 03:18:48 PM Eli
Actually, there is no evidence that Jesus existed, outside of second hand accounts, so you people should probably stop claiming that there is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------​-------- --
The same could be said of the American Revolution.
2002-10-21 03:46:38 PM  
n permanent display in Notre Dame's treasury in Paris is purportedly a wood chip and a nail from the actual cross Jesus was crucified on.

There were enough parts of the "true cross" floating around medieval Europe to build a ship. I'd be amazed if the actual cross wasn't taken down and used for kindling afterward.
2002-10-21 03:47:12 PM  
*cheerful slut in a cold sweat and growing panic*

What the hell do you mean they've got EVIDENCE!?!?!
2002-10-21 03:48:00 PM  
... I stopped with the religion because the idea of a 'God' makes about as much sense as a giant what's-it-called sneezing out the universe (uhh... I hope you get what I'm attempting to reference off the top of my head)

You doubt the existence of the Great Green Arkelseezure?


You'll be sorry at The Coming Of The Great White Handkerchief!!!
2002-10-21 03:49:04 PM  

Way to turn that other cheek. If you're not content to have reasonable debate, then ask yourself, WWJD?
2002-10-21 03:49:47 PM  
The reference to Jesus in Josephus' work was evidently a later addition by scribes or monks attempting to make his account fit with the NT.

This can be shown by the discovery of an earlier copy of the Josephus text in question (Jewish War or Histories) found in Russia after the fall of USSR. Dating analysis confirms its age. It contains no mention of Jesus.

For the rest of the Evangelists who accept Jesus is the son of a deity, please read Matthew 24:34. Conclusive proof of the humanity and error of Yeshua ha Noztri. (he told his followers: 'this generation shall not pass till all these things be done.' - referring to the establishment of his kindgom and the fulfillment of prophecies. No one doubts that the generation he referred to is long dead, and it didn't happen)

/statement ends
2002-10-21 03:49:48 PM  
I never doubted the existence of Jesus the man, I just don't believe he had any religious significance. One hell of a con artist, he makes PT Barnum pale by comparison.
2002-10-21 03:49:48 PM  
Woohoo, Wanda - shoulda guessed you're a pagan too, girlfriend, 'cause you're so joyfully lusty! Lots of us around these fark parts, I think.
2002-10-21 03:49:48 PM  
Well, I am agnostic, but the more that I think about it the more I think that there may be a god. Just yesterday when I was with my wife, in the biblical sense, she was screaming "OH GOD! OH GOD!"

True story. it really happened.
2002-10-21 03:50:58 PM  
I believe in Jesus to the same level I believe in David Korresh. I never met either one but I'm pretty sure they existed. I am also fairly sure they both were hyped as the son of god/messiah.
2002-10-21 03:51:17 PM  
Geez, for an enlightened "freedom of speech" crowd, you guys sure are closed-minded.
2002-10-21 03:51:38 PM  
I really enjoyed King Jesus by Robert Graves (I, Claudius). He states in a very believable story that Jesus was the illegimate son of the real heir of Judea (Mary's secret lover/seducer) and that the whole prophet thing was a 'career move' in a way to fulfill a prophecy in the old testament so that Israel would have a thousand years of peace. See what he accomplished, huh? Good book, though.

/OK you can stone me now (everybody must get stoned...)
2002-10-21 03:51:50 PM  
With all respect to the great Douglas Adams:

"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."

"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."

"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed at the next zebra crossing.
2002-10-21 03:52:23 PM  
aw, shiat, lost another close bold tag.
2002-10-21 03:53:57 PM  
jesus's real name was samuel clemens.
2002-10-21 03:54:26 PM  
So the names that have been translated to Jesus and Joseph were unique at the time?
2002-10-21 03:55:29 PM  
Whew, its so trendy to be an athiest on this board. I like Chess_the_cat's analogy. I was brought up Baptist, became athiest towards the middle of my high school years, and i am now "spiritual" as trite as that sounds. I do not believe in the Trinity, and i have tons of issues with the compilation of the Qu'ran and Mohammad's life, but i do believe in God, so that leaves me at "spiritual". But in the spirit of following the crowd and flaming religion i will say i was never a fan of that Spanish Inquisition, and oh i am starkly against the catholic priests touching those altar boys. As a matter of fact i dislike Catholicism and find Mormonism to be absolutely NUTS. I mean Joseph Smith...crimeny id rather NOT have the founder of my faith to be a convicted con artist, an alchoholic, and a really bad Liar...golden plates my ass. Lets all maybe just take a bit and focus on the absurdity of Mormonism, Mormonism is far more fun to flame than Jesus.
2002-10-21 03:55:29 PM  
"What's a...pederast, Walter?"
2002-10-21 03:55:29 PM  
Actually, there is no evidence that Jesus existed, outside of second hand accounts, so you people should probably stop claiming that there is.

So, the entire religion founded in his name isn't some sort of clue that he existed? Riiight. should be called "". Its got nothign to do with atheism, it has to do with poking holes in the bible, which isnt atheism at all. Its as bad as those fundie sites which attempt to "disprove" evolution. Those wankers give the rest of us atheists a bad name, the same way falwell gives christians a bad name. Atheists arent against christianity, they just dont believe in it, or any other religion.

Ok history 101 people, a very brief history of early Christianity.

Christ did exist. he was a prophet, and there were loads of people doing the same sort of ranting and raving as he was when he was alive, he was, like we all are, a product of his time, and when he was around, there were alot of prophets, espeically in that part of the world. He lived and died without much fanfaire, with only his cult of core believers mourning his passing.

But, over the next few decades after his death, these disciples (jesus' PR dept. if you will) travelled all throughout the roman world "spreading the word" of what they believed in.

In the roman world, much like in the current islamic world, there was extreme poverty and misery amongst the majority of the people, and the roman religions didnt adress the afterlife very well. Well, christianity did! Those who die for christ will live immortal (sound familiar?) Live a good life on earth, and you'll go to heaven, and so you filthy slaves serving the roman masters will have something to look forward to. Hope inspiring, yes? Ok so you lead a hopeless life, but take heart, it'll be better when you die! Sounds good, doesnt it?

This caught on in a big way with the under classes, much in the same way that fundamentalism has caught on with underclasses today in the arab world.

Heres the pinnacle of christianity, heres why it survived:

Emperor constantine, in trying to keep the roman empire together, realized the appeal and the power that christianity had in his empire. So he officially converted (even though he prayed to apollo till he died), and put the entire finanical resources of the most powerful state in the history of the world behind it. The catholic church is born in rome, where it remains till this day.

So, christianity survived, not because of its divinity, but because it had a damn good pr staff, a good marketing pitch, and got loads of VC funding. Europe would all worship snakes if Rome had. Christianity is, ironically, one of the Roman empire's most enduring contributions to europe.

thank you drive through.
2002-10-21 03:56:20 PM  
"James the Lord's brother" (cf. Mt 12:46-47 and 13:55) is James the Less (cf. Mk 15:40), also called the
son of Alphaeus (cf. Lk 6:15)

"Brethren": ancient Hebrew, Aramaic and other languages had no special words for different degrees of relationship, such as are found in more modern languages. In general, all those belonging to the same family, clan and even tribe were "brethren". In the particular case we have here, we should bear in mind that Jesus had different kinds of relatives, in two groups-some on His mother's side, others on St. Joseph's. Matthew 13:55-56 mentions, as living in Nazareth, James, Joseph, Simon and Judas ("His brethren") and elsewhere there is reference to Jesus' "sisters" (cf. Matthew 6:3). But in Matthew 27:56 we are told that James and Joseph were sons of a Mary distinct from the Blessed Virgin, and that Simon and Judas were not brothers of James and Joseph, but seemingly children of a brother of St. Joseph. Jesus, on the other hand, was known to everyone as "the son of Mary" (Mark 6:3) or "the carpenter's son" (Matthew 13:55).

The Church has always maintained as absolutely certain that Jesus had no brothers or sisters in the full meaning of the term: it is a dogma that Mary was ever-Virgin (cf. note on Matthew 1:25).]

Luke 6:12-19: Notice that Luke makes mention of Andrew being Peter's brother, but does not name any of the others as Jesus's brother.

The Jewish custom was for closer relatives to be called "brothers", brethren.

In Aramaic, one of the languages used by the Jews, the word "brethren" is a broad term indicating kinship: nephews, first cousins, and relatives in general are called 'brethren'.

St. Mark mentions by name a number of brothers of Jesus, and refers in general to His sisters. But the word "brother" does not necessarily mean son of the same parents. It can also indicate other degrees of
relationship--cousins, nephews, etc. Thus in Genesis 13:8 and 14:14 and 16 Lot is called the brother of Abraham (translated as "kinsman" in RSV), whereas we know that he was Abraham's nephew, the son of Abraham's brother Haran. The same is true of Laban, who is called the brother of Jacob (Genesis 29:15) although he was his mother's brother
(Genesis 29:15); there are other instances: cf. 1 Chronicles 23:21-22,etc. This confusion is due to the poverty of Hebrew and Aramaic language: in the absence of distinct terms, the same word, brother, is used to designate different degrees of relationship.

From other Gospel passages we know that James and Joses, who are mentioned here, were sons of Mary of Clophas (John 19:25). We know less about Judas and Simon: it seems that they are the Apostles Simon the Cananaean (Matthew 10:4) and Judas the son of James (Luke 6:16),the author of the Catholic Epistle, in which he describes himself as
"brother" of James. In any event, although James, Simon and Judas are referred to as brothers of Jesus, it is nowhere said they were "sons of Mary"--which would have been the natural thing if they had been our Lord's brothers in the strict sense. Jesus always appears as an only son: to the people of Nazareth, He is "the son of Mary" (Matthew 13:55). When He was dying Jesus entrusted His mother to St. John (cf. John 19:26-27), which shows that Mary had no other children. To this is added the constant belief of the Church, which regards Mary as the
ever-virgin: "a perfect virgin before, while, and forever after she gave birth" (Paul IV, "Cum Quorumdam").

See also on Mary's perpetual virginity: Luther, Calvin & Zwingli
2002-10-21 03:57:13 PM  
Jesus existed. 'god' as the christians tell it, doesn't. Want my proof? Bin Laden, Saddam, Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini...God loves everyone, yet he allows 5 of the largest jack asses ever to kill HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of people? Don't think so.

Yes because if a God exists, he should be able to stop all the stupid and evil things, we, as human beings, do. I mean, if a God exists, he should be doing my dishes! I'm not responsible for my dirty dishes! He should be zapping tornadoes and he should of, like, came down and said, "Hitler, you are one bad dude! You stop that or I'll punish you with an afterlife on Pluto!" And if there was a God, he would of never let that Joey Lawrence sitcom last more than one episode! Of course, that sitcom did not last long so perhaps there is a God? Okay fine, I'm an agnostic!

Aw crap, I should have never came back to this thread.
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