Just wait, they'll start calling it "stealing" to buy a used game.

/To the publishers, there is exactly zero difference between "piracy" and buying a used game.
//This is exactly why Nintendo's Virtual Console requires you to delete all VC games if you sell the Wii
///This is why a lot of PC game companies try to tie their program to exactly one computer

Geez.. using that same argument they should ban libraries. after all how much do libraries hurt the bottom lines of publishers?

Except they DON'T hurt the bottom line of anything. The money was never going to be theirs to begin with. so nothing is being taken from them.

Alacritous: Geez.. using that same argument they should ban libraries. after all how much do libraries hurt the bottom lines of publishers?

Except they DON'T hurt the bottom line of anything. The money was never going to be theirs to begin with. so nothing is being taken from them.

Precisely. Same thing goes for buying Pepsi instead of Coke, torrenting random_song.mp3 instead of buying it on iTunes, swapping video games with a friend, etc.

I rate games based on how much I would buy them for. There are some decent games that are fun to play, but just aren't worth the $60 retail price to me when they first come out (for example, games that are short, or have an online capability that I don't think I will ever mess around with).

So I wait a few months until they drop to $40 or $30 and pick them up.

For example.

Condemned
Stuntman
Saints Row
Crackdown
/etc

If it wasn't for used, I wouldn't have bought any of those games AT ALL.

and, in many cases, often piss-poor condition console games

This is just retardation, they always let me look at the disk for scratches first. And at every gamestop I've gone to, they shuffle through and find the cleanest possible disk for me.

All of the xbox 360 stuff I bought was pristine. Most of the PS2 stuff I bought was pristine (with the exception of lego star wars which had a slightly beat up instruction manual, but a perfectly clean disk, go figure).
I would never

TheCid: Alacritous: Geez.. using that same argument they should ban libraries. after all how much do libraries hurt the bottom lines of publishers?

Except they DON'T hurt the bottom line of anything. The money was never going to be theirs to begin with. so nothing is being taken from them.

Precisely. Same thing goes for buying Pepsi instead of Coke, torrenting random_song.mp3 instead of buying it on iTunes, swapping video games with a friend, etc.

Um, you are so wrong.

Every time I hear a song on the radio I make sure to put $1,000 (for each DMCA thoughtcrime violation, more if I hum or drum along, and put it in the "proceeds of crime jar". Whenever I turn the stereo on I steal money faster than I make it at work, so I usually have to unplug it pretty quick because I don't make enough money to steal all the time

Subby: Thankfully, no other products are sold as "used" or our economy would collapse

Hey, don't give them any ideas. Before long we'll have lawnmowers and desklamps tied to one set of finger prints.

You can't buy love anything, but you can rent it.

Oh, and they don't have to worry about me buying used games. The following is a list of systems I have emulated on my computer:

NES
SNES
Genesis
N64
Saturn
Game Boy / GBA
PlayStation

Screw used games; download ROMs and ISOs. I'm certainly not going to pay $100 for a used copy of Dragon Force or Persona.

lanke: Dragon Force.

Favorite console game ever.

So, guys, any chance your industry can simply start producing games that are cheap enough that a "used" market would be laughable at any scale past, say, a flea market or yard sale?

50 dollars for a frigging new title. Hell $40 for a frigging almost new title. I get 8 maybe 10 hours of entertainment.

Well except for the original release of Ghost Recon for PS/2. Holyyyy crap. That was so good I got sick of borrowing my brother's copy and bought my own. AND THEN THEY UNDID ALL THE THINGS THAT MADE IT GREAT WITH GHOST RECON 2!!!

The entire book industry has co-existed with libraries (and in the modern age, used book stores) ever since the printing press was invented AND it still makes a profit.

If you're a video game maker and you have trouble selling a game because the used market swallowed up your customers, it should dawn on you to lower your freaking price and don't spend as much money on that party in Singapore. Build the expectation into your revenue plan. You know, do things like plan for the real world, not some idealized place where everyone is your biatch and pays max price for the item each and every time.

Oh, and make games with VERY high replay value. I still own Twilight Princess and I haven't played it in 6 months. I payed Camp of Duty 4 (PS3) for 2 hours tonight, UT3 is my friend. REPLAY VALUE. The majority of games on the market are worth a rental at best and if your game is on that list, that isn't my problem. Make a better game.

TheCid:
Every time I hear a song on the radio I make sure to put $1,000 (for each DMCA thoughtcrime violation, more if I hum or drum along, and put it in the "proceeds of crime jar". Whenever I turn the stereo on I steal money faster than I make it at work, so I usually have to unplug it pretty quick because I don't make enough money to steal all the time

Impressive. You should start a movement with this mandate.
My jar is now next to the computer.

lanke: Oh, and they don't have to worry about me buying used games. The following is a list of systems I have emulated on my computer:


Good idea if you dont mind waiting 6 years to play a new game.

Do yourself a favor and forget Gamestop, EB Games, and any other mall store that traffics in used games. If your town has a locally owned used game store, go there. Much better deals and much friendlier staff in my experience. I was in an EB Games lately, and they wanted $25 for a used copy of the original Halo, a game which is around $20 new at most places. Meanwhile, at the local guy's shop, I can get pretty much any last gen (Xbox, PS2, GC) game used for $5-15, and in pristine condition.

Well since they don't make them anymore and I can get 3 NES games for $10* at a nearby Bookmans (new window), I'm actually helping a company that I like stay in business and get some good games as well. Also I pick up cd's and records cheap, used and in good condition (has to be they won't accept broken items, they test everything that comes in). So a business I like stays in business and the RIAA/MPAA can go suck it, all in one trip.

Roms are nice but you can't beat playing Contra, Skate or Die 2, or Double Dragon with the NES Advantage.

*well they used to have that deal but most NES games are between $2-$15 depending on rarity and popularity.

Dumbasses. DO SOMETHING PEOPLE WANT AND THEY'LL BUY IT. THAT'S THE MARKET.

Also you can get just about any game from Bookmans as well including systems but you may have to fill out a request card for them since it's all trade-ins. So it may take a while but you can get all Nintendo, Sega, Sony, Microsoft and even Atari consoles if you keep at it.

@ Visceral Realist - Dragon Force is undeniably awesome. I have a Saturn emulator just for that game.

@ lilplatinum - That's a fair criticism. I'm certainly not going to wait 6 years to play GTA4. Hell, I'm not even going to wait a year to steal the PC port. I'm gonna buy/steal me a 360/PS3 for that one.

@ Deadite - (Sweet name by the way). I am the NES advantage. Seriously, I actually prefer emulating. Why?

- No blowing in cartridges
- Wireless controllers
- Fast-forward and rewind buttons

Your Fairy Hockey Player
Do yourself a favor and forget Gamestop, EB Games, and any other mall store that traffics in used games. If your town has a locally owned used game store, go there. Much better deals and much friendlier staff in my experience

True that. There's one approximately a half a mile from my house. You can negotiate used games prices, as long as he makes a profit, he really doesn't care. The owner is the primary worker, he owns all current consoles and is a gamer. Both Game Stop and EB are filled with MS fanboys (there's several in town of each). I had an employee at one of the GS tell me "why don't you buy a real console" when I was looking at Wii games. I looked at him and said, "Don't be rude to customers, asshole" and walked out the door.

Am I missing something? Is the video game industry hurting? Other than Sony's big PS3/blu-ray gamble, is there any sign of the industry losing money?

I understand (not agree, understand) with the RIAA fighting every grandma because they are losing their livelihood, but it seems we are in the Golden age of videogames. When the next-gen Wii comes out, just damn. This would be like the NFL fighting public viewing.

Personally, I own my games and keep them, because I never know when the urge is going to strike to revisit a favorite. And with the PS2, I only bought the greatest hits for 20$. Was I hurting the cause? Nope, it earned them money. The problem now is that more than a year later, Gears of War is still 60 bucks, theres no need. I might actually have to go buy it used. They need to rethink their strategy.

Keep in mind that this article was written by a guy selling magazines, not games. The developers know that resale is one of the driving forces for many people.

Renowned transvestite sexologist: I had an employee at one of the GS tell me "why don't you buy a real console" when I was looking at Wii games. I looked at him and said, "Don't be rude to customers, asshole" and walked out the door.

Good for you. You'll always get better treatment at the Pop stores (face it, this is gaming, there is no Mom). If you're like me and take care of your stuff, they also won't insult you by offering $2 for your spotless trade-ins.

lanke But that's what gives'em character plus it brings back all of the memories of doing that 20 years ago. Granted about the wireless controllers I agree with that. Maybe I'm old school and want the actual console and cartridges, even if they take up a lot of space there are memories I'll never fully get with a computer and wonky usb controllers. Having to draw out maps, take notes on what you're doing at certain points so if you die you can try again without too much trouble, writing down 20-30 character long passwords.

Not like today where you have infinite respawns and have to stop and hide to heal up. You actually had to fight your way through a whole game just to beat it, and if you failed you wanted to try again later because no farking game is going to get the best of you!! Damn kids have it easy today, sit and heal? fark that I grew up in the time you had to hope and pray that the next enemy you fought dropped an health item, and if it didn't then you are farked sideways, or worse yet the one hit and you're dead no matter what games.

/Get off my lawn or you'll get the same as Red Falcon got

lanke: @ lilplatinum - That's a fair criticism. I'm certainly not going to wait 6 years to play GTA4. Hell, I'm not even going to wait a year to steal the PC port. I'm gonna buy/steal me a 360/PS3 for that one.

Plus the option of save/resto state makes it too tempting to cheat :) I can stop myself from looking up codes or d/ling trainers, but when its as easy as f4/f5..

I'm still wondering why nobody has brought up Gametap et all...

My posse of fly playas only shops at Gamecrazy

/anyone?

@ lilplatinum - I use guides, but I never use cheat codes or trainers. The one thing I will do is use the rewind button on platformers, especially ones I've beat before. Sometimes I just want to play through Mega Man X in a day. I actually don't abuse the save/restore state, 'cause I play the games on my TV (thumbs up to S-Video outs on all graphics cards, shiatty or not), and I don't have a wireless keyboard.

@ Deadite - Adventure Island is still the hardest game ever. I never got past that godforsaken ice level. I'll actually argue that for a lot of genres of games (especially sports games and shooters), online play has made them harder. And I had to make a ton of notes when playing through Space Rangers 2 (an awesome PC game - everyone go get it right now). And no matter what newfangled technologies come along, I still can't beat that goddamned jetski level in Battletoads. Seriously, the guys who made that were jerks.

That is one egotistical fanboy who wrote this article. I'm not paying $50-60 for a new game, and I've never had a problem with a used one. I'm still sticking with a PS2 so my purchases aren't exactly hurting game development.

Game developers have been slow to adopt the DOWNLOAD ONLY game distribution infrastructure. If they did this the used game market would disappear OVERNIGHT!!

It is very hard for me to sell my games purchased for my PC over the STEAM platform but I can take my Xbox360 games and sell them back to gamechump for a large loss but that is the price to pay.

hamdingers: My posse of fly playas only shops at Gamecrazy

/anyone?

I've been there, they had a piss poor collection and the guy there kept trying to get me to buy a PSP for Front Mission. I told him I was good and went to Fry's

horrified:
Impressive. You should start a movement with this mandate.
My jar is now next to the computer.

LOL that's not what most people use the jar for.

If you work at EBgames/Gamestop you are not patr of the gaming industry. You work at a pawn shop

If they only made a game I didn't want to get rid of...

Lookie here, Psychonauts, Portal, Planescape: Torment...
All in my shelf. No resale for yoooou.


/Point being: People get rid of shiat because it's shiat - stop making shiat.
//In the end, no matter how much these numbnuts argue the fault is still at the company and the developers for making crap.

When EA sports puts out a 360 game for $10 more, with less than the cheaper PS2 version.... do I get a rebate?

Too many games do not earn that extra $10 or are worth the $60. I remember when games were being released new for the XBOX and PS2 for $20... some pretty good too. Games are way too expensive.

Also music and movies can be bought used.

Just wanted to add in Final Fantasy 7 - over 40hours gameplay ATLEAST.
That game was SO worth the cost.

Shadow of the Colossus - 10hours, same price.

Worth it? Not so much.

Next they'll say they have a problem with me downloading games off the internet for free! corporations... always wanting something in exchange for their products.

Pixelvision: Next they'll say they have a problem with me downloading games off the internet for free! corporations... always wanting something in exchange for their products.

Which is an interesting point - they generally argue that people downloading ruins their sales, whereas fact is most pirates wouldn't buy the shiat in the first place *shrug

The other thing that is killing me on this issue is the "download" option for new PC game purchases:

I'm not against it per se, but for the trouble you:
1) Don't have any printed material
2) Tpyically have to deal with a "Steam" on-line verification everytime you launch the game
3) Have nothing you can sell to a third party when you are done with it AND...
4) They're charging at least as much IF NOT MORE, than what you'd pay for a hard copy at the store.

Other than being able to get it "right freaking now" its full of fail as far as I'm concerned.

Well they can buy it used or they can download it. Pick one motherfarkers, because you only made a few hundred million last year right???

Eff this, millionaires biatching about not being richer...

Just came in here to say that I don't generally buy new games for my 360 unless I really need to have it now or it uses a peripheral (GHII/III).

I've been using Goozex (^, goozex.com) to trade games for a while now. I can usually get new releases about a month after they come out. I can wait and it saves me a ton of money. Once I'm done with it just trade it back in.

Your Fairy Hockey Player
I was in an EB Games lately, and they wanted $25 for a used copy of the original Halo, a game which is around $20 new at most places

Halo was $20 new when they STILL MADE IT! And at that time a used Halo was like $10. But now I can't even remember the last time I walked into a store that carried new xbox games and they had a copy of Halo or Halo 2, or anything even remotely decent.

So yes, some games that are out of print do sell for more used than they sold for previously new, good catch (go take a look at the price on Marvel vs Capcom 2 for instance).

Quit making sh*tty games. Problem solved.

I'm sure it does "hurt" them and I don't care. It "hurt" Chevrolet in the exact same bullshiat way when I bought my first car used instead of new. Property rights are a biatch, ain't they? I bought the disc, the car, the book, the whatever so now it's mine and I'll do what I want with it. Suck it, New Things Selling Guy.

This is why digital distribution should be resisted: You will lose your rights as a consumer to do as you wish with what you buy. The rental market disappears, the resale market disappears, you can no longer lend and borrow games between friends, and all that means no try-before-you-buy and no incentive on the publisher to ever lower prices. Cheap used copies put downward pressure on the price of new ones. Do any of you really think there would be those "Greatest Hits" versions of games for $20-$30 if it wasn't for the resale market? The first week a game is available, all roads of purchase lead back to the publisher. Soon, other avenues appear such as GameStop, eBay or that friend of yours who bought the game and got sick of it so he'll sell it to you for $30. Why support a distribution model that harms these avenues and reduces your consumer choices and liberties?

/GameStop blows festering monkey wang. eBay FTW.

I went in the other day, and traded in a game that cost me $60 brand new a month ago, and they gave me $14 for it on trade, and are selling it for $55. What the hell is that all about? They are damn crooks if you ask me...

What this pee hole fails to realize is that there has to be a substantial amount of people buying new games for there to even be a used game market. If you want to cut out the whole used game market, either make prices lower so cheapskates and gamers with a budget can afford new titles or to make games with (gasp) replay value so they don't get sold back in the first place.

Fizpez: The other thing that is killing me on this issue is the "download" option for new PC game purchases:

I'm not against it per se, but for the trouble you:
1) Don't have any printed material
2) Tpyically have to deal with a "Steam" on-line verification everytime you launch the game
3) Have nothing you can sell to a third party when you are done with it AND...
4) They're charging at least as much IF NOT MORE, than what you'd pay for a hard copy at the store.

Other than being able to get it "right freaking now" its full of fail as far as I'm concerned.

Agreed. I'm against digital distribution because of a lack of a hard copy. What happens ten years from now, if the company that made it is out of business and I don't have my digital copy anymore? I'm SOL.

What happens if a game has original content that is later deemed "inappropriate" and is removed, or they change the gameplay mechanics to a huge level of fail with a patch, and I want to downgrade (BF2 had some awful patches for a while), and I only have the digital copy, will they offer multiple versions of the digital copy?

Movies, music, games, if I spend money on a product, I want a hard copy of that product in my hand.

/Fark is a service, not a product.

h to the 'ojo: Every time I hear a song on the radio I make sure to put $1,000 (for each DMCA thoughtcrime violation, more if I hum or drum along, and put it in the "proceeds of crime jar". Whenever I turn the stereo on I steal money faster than I make it at work, so I usually have to unplug it pretty quick because I don't make enough money to steal all the time

i stole your stealing jar.

Ramell FTW.

Goozex is quite possibly the greatest invention since the GPU.

I now have more games than I could ever possibly play, and I paid only $1 for them. The best part is that they also deal in PC games, which is pretty much the only platform I bother with.

Very nice.

Fizpez: The other thing that is killing me on this issue is the "download" option for new PC game purchases:

I'm not against it per se, but for the trouble you:
1) Don't have any printed material
2) Tpyically have to deal with a "Steam" on-line verification everytime you launch the game
3) Have nothing you can sell to a third party when you are done with it AND...
4) They're charging at least as much IF NOT MORE, than what you'd pay for a hard copy at the store.

Other than being able to get it "right freaking now" its full of fail as far as I'm concerned.

is there a way to get portal without buying the orange box? the only way i saw was from steam.