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(   Condolences to Australia and a few words about "useful idiots"   ( divider line
    More: Hero  
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9655 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Oct 2002 at 12:24 AM (15 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

260 Comments     (+0 »)

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2002-10-20 05:30:37 PM  
This is not to say the U.S or the West is always right or cannot be criticized, but beware of those for whom the U.S. or the West is never, ever right.

Good thing there aren't any people like that on Fark.
2002-10-20 06:29:09 PM  
Despite all those moronic monotonous mantras over lack of mentality, George Bush understands this, and the useful idiots don't.

You can take that to the bank.
2002-10-20 11:16:05 PM  
I loved his reference to Stalin's term "useful idiots". It seems more appropriate, however, to brand our current American malcontents "useless idiots". They are as "useful" to Osama as they would be to Stalin, but they are "useless" to America.

I recommend Farkers click on the article that the author linked. But, be warned, it's flamebait. "Useful (or useless) idiots" will be offended.
2002-10-21 12:30:22 AM  

I have to agree Warchild

Despite all those moronic monotonous mantras over lack of mentality, George Bush understands this, and the useful idiots don't.


2002-10-21 12:33:19 AM  
DrToast remains my hero.
2002-10-21 12:33:41 AM  
a very good piece overall. Don't have a lot to add beyond that.
2002-10-21 12:34:51 AM  
I agree, anyone offended by this article is most likely responding to the fact they know they are a useful/useless idiot and doesnt want to admit it.
2002-10-21 12:34:51 AM  
It's a bit like the muslims that focus on Falwell's comments.

Nobody with any intelligence gives a shiat about Falwell.

Getting upset about it only fuels some agenda you have.
2002-10-21 12:39:52 AM  
Well, I can't really disagree with that article.

"Nobody with any intelligence gives a shiat about Falwell"

That is correct. However, there's enough people without intelligence who DO give a shiat about what Falwell says to make this country seem JUST as full of dangerous fundies as the Middle East and central Asia.

And, most of the time, that's what it seems like to me, as well.
2002-10-21 12:41:25 AM  
Awesome. I'm also glad that we have more people in the US are sending public condolences to Australia. Despite differences in Government and culture, many nations gave us public condolences for 9/11. Australia deserves the same. There was no reason whatsoever for the attack on Australia and the residents/tourists of Bali. Appologists can cram it.
2002-10-21 12:41:26 AM  
I agree with the ideas in the article. However I think it is equally as bad to use an event like the Bali bombing as a way of legitimising whatever action or opinion they want. I feel this is happening with the war against Iraq... they had nothing to do with the Bali bombing but it is being used as an excuse to legitimise the war. Not right.
2002-10-21 12:41:33 AM  
umm, what exactly is Israel doing that this guy seemed to condemn? Way to justify terrorism in an article condemning terrorism.
2002-10-21 12:47:29 AM  
This is the most intelligent thread I have seen in a while. Almost all of the answers are well thought out, and are mostly commenting eachother or the article. In other news...

2002-10-21 12:49:04 AM  
I'm standing on the side of people not getting blown up while going about their daily business in this conflict. Unless their daily business is terrorism; then they can by incinerated for all I care.
2002-10-21 12:50:53 AM  
With my previous message in mind, I send my condolences to the people of Australia, and any who lost their lives in the bombing.... even though it comes pretty late.
2002-10-21 12:51:30 AM  
An Aussie friend and I were chatting about this just yesterday. He sent me a link ( and pretty much invited an argument. Shortly after 9/11, we spoke and he blamed the US 99% for what happened. I carefully stayed away from asking how he felt now. It was three months before we even bothered to speak again. No matter where we are in the world, there will always be people who blame the victim for whatever befalls them, from terrorism to rape.
2002-10-21 12:54:18 AM  
I've been saying this for a long time. Islamofascist apologists suck ass.

Oh no, we must look long and hard and reflect on why a bunch of insane, religiously fanatical mass murderers hate us. Yes, we must not do anything but sit there and think about why crazy serial killers want us dead. Yeah, that's the ticket.
2002-10-21 01:00:58 AM  
First up to all the oz folks on the board. I grew up in Belfsat and know what it feels like. My thoughts are with you. No-one should have to deal with this kind of thing.

That said...

/me sits back and grabs his marshmallows ready to roast...
2002-10-21 01:02:01 AM  
Nice article. Nice spin. What the author does not realize, is that there are legitimate reasons to be against this so called war. Speaking out, and stating your ideas is what makes America the country of freedom.

This is just another "shut your mouth hippie" article that is trying to be heart felt.
2002-10-21 01:10:39 AM  
HA!! Miranda Devine is like Ann Coulter Lite.

I still think 'Chickenhawk' has a better ring to it than 'Useful idiot'.
2002-10-21 01:10:54 AM  
MrTuffPaws, shut your mouth, hippie!

2002-10-21 01:11:46 AM  

I'm sorry, I see you taking pot shots, but you didn't mention why you think the Bali bombing was justified.
Nobody said you can't say what you want, but we reserve the right to call you a dumbass.
2002-10-21 01:16:35 AM  
He wasn't saying they were.
2002-10-21 01:16:48 AM  
Nice article. Nice spin. What the author does not realize, is that there are legitimate reasons to be against this so called war.

Yes, he does. Read it again.

"This is not to say the U.S or the West is always right or cannot be criticized, but beware of those for whom the U.S. or the West is never, ever right."
2002-10-21 01:21:48 AM  

No matter where we are in the world, there will always be people who blame the victim for whatever befalls them, from terrorism to rape.

I just hope people remember that when daisy cutters start dropping on Iraq.
2002-10-21 01:22:53 AM  
And I'd agree with that statement. It's too bad, however, that it gets applied by some to anyone and everyone who ever says a damn thing in disagreement with them.
2002-10-21 01:23:02 AM  
My most sincere condolences to all the Austrailians out there and I hope they know that this act of cowerdice will not go unavenged. This crap makes me feel just like I did on 911.
2002-10-21 01:24:42 AM  
farking makes me so mad I forgot how to spell.
2002-10-21 01:26:20 AM  

Odd, because really the article only attacks the people blaming the bombings on the PM. If he doesn't think the bombings were justified on those grounds, why does he attack the article? Surely he wouldn't attack it if he didn't disagree with it.
2002-10-21 01:32:44 AM  
We don't have too many "usefull idiot" apologists here in Australia but unfortunately those we do have are concentrated in the major newspapers around the country

and those apologists are dwindling, even those that called America after 9/11 "mawkish" and self-indulgent are now happy to celebrate being Australian
2002-10-21 01:38:36 AM  
The cleric who is the #1 suspect in the bombing was asked if he had any words for the families of the Bali victims.

His answer?

"Convert to Islam as soon as possible."

To crazy Islamic fundamentalists, we're all just infidels. Those guys that blew up that French oil tanker said "We would have preferred an American tanker, but they're all infidels."

That is the mindset of these people. Their apologists have to realize that they view them with the same regard as they view the most militant and conservative of us.
2002-10-21 01:39:12 AM  
My condolences goes out to Australia.
2002-10-21 01:40:38 AM  
Just because one says "Hey, we should consider our own actions too." does not mean they think the attacks were justified, nor that everything their country does is wrong.
2002-10-21 01:41:22 AM  
Aye, my condolences as well. The Bali bombing kinda reminded me of 9/11, so I went to the Fark archives and re-read the comments and articles and realized how much that day sucked.
2002-10-21 01:43:28 AM  
Thray, the author did consider his country's actions. Osama Bin Laden was after Australia because of their support of East Timor, which was being ravaged by the brutally oppressive Muslim government. It was a purely humanitarian and liberal action that aroused the ire of the Islamic fundamentalists.
2002-10-21 01:45:48 AM  
Of course, not that insane religious nuts need much of an excuse to blow up a crowded building. When abortion clinic bombers blow shiat up, who are the people saying we need to consider our own actions?
2002-10-21 01:46:44 AM  
Bbcrackmonkey, I'd sign up for the service tomorrow if they'd allow me to make a necklace out of islamic terrorist testicles. This is a language I believe they'd understand. And if it gets truly ugly enough, wiping out their entire blood lines is another option. Whatever their deepest fear is, we must exploit it. Any idea what this might be? Is it as simple as capturing them alive then exposing them to porn 24/7? Whatever could we do to them that would make them fear losing their very soul?
2002-10-21 01:49:48 AM  
I personally cannot fathom people that would be so cruel as to attack innocent people because their government acted in a humanitarian way towards other people who were facing severe repression. I have a good imagination, but I just can't wrap my head around it. Australia, I'd stand by you, just the same as I'd stand by anyone who's been struck by any of these events of the past 14 months.
2002-10-21 01:50:22 AM  
That may be so, although I suspect that at least some of the leaders are more intelligent than that, and are just greedy bastards who want power (not any better). I think they use the disgruntled and young by whipping up the fanaticism you are talking about. And therein lies the problem I have with this war. I don't think just killing addresses this problem, because there will always be greedy power hungry people and if they still have masses of pissed off people they can use and abuse, we're still going to have problems.
2002-10-21 01:50:45 AM  
Young_Fart, well I think you'd better calm down about whiping out their bloodline. For one, that's just barbaric, and two, a lot of these guys would willingly sacrifice their bloodline for the cause.

If you're serious about sending the terrorists to Muslim hell, alcohol, pork, and gay porn ought to do the trick.
2002-10-21 01:52:18 AM  
Thray, well so far the War on Terror has been a huge success in Afghanistan. I really don't connect the War on Terror to whatever may happen in Iraq, however, so I'm not sure what war specifically you are talking about
2002-10-21 01:53:00 AM  
YoungFart is on to something.
The old thinking does not work any more.
If you learn nothing else from all of this, learn that.
2002-10-21 01:53:40 AM  

The war against Iraq is justified. They made agreements based on their surrender. They did not stand by them. Thus, they deserve attack.

We should have gone back in right away.
2002-10-21 01:56:07 AM  
But I have to digress that specifically killing the people who are committing these terrorist acts, as well as the men who are coordinating and commanding them is solving the problem. To extrapolate your philosophy to WW2, since that's pretty much what everybody compares every war to, killing Axis soldiers and removing their fascist leaders commanding them would not have solved the problem, because there would always be fascist leaders willing to whip up their population in support, right? Well when we killed the Axis soldiers and removed their leaders, no more WW2, problem solved.
2002-10-21 02:01:28 AM  
Bbcrackmonkey:I have to point out that there's no way in hell the Indonesian Government is a "Muslim Government".

Formerly, a good old fashioned cold war 30 year long anti-communist brutal kleptocracy. Now a teetering basketcase with rats in the ranks (insane but entrenched military commanders). But never a Taliban style theocracy.

Once Suharto's reign of terror had ended, President Wahid, whilst a senile Muslim cleric himself, actually RESISTED making Indonesia a theocracy. Good thing too, what with the largest Muslim population on earth and all.
2002-10-21 02:03:26 AM  
Macheath, I believe reading the Koran is required in Indonesian school, and that Muslim law is practiced to a limited extent in its courts, although I could be wrong.
2002-10-21 02:03:52 AM  

I think we may have stumbled upon the way to end this conflict once and for all. We need to recruit some gay patriots to put it to any islamic war criminals we capture. I know -I- would stop blowing shiat up.
2002-10-21 02:04:04 AM  
What I mean is while that is part of the solving the problem, there is more to it than that. The WWs are a good example. WWI, the Germans are beat, and their already battered country is hit with reparations, squabbles over territory, etc. Their economy is crap, people can barely survive. We all know who comes to power. Do you think he would have come to power if people weren't so desperate? WWII, Germans are beat, we rebuild their country and get them on their feet again. That is why the problem was solved. If we'd just dropped them and smacked them with reparations again, I'm pretty sure it could have gotten ugly again.
2002-10-21 02:07:11 AM  
Thray, you are right about that. Merely killing them will not entirely solve the problem, because there is always the chance that someone will rise up to fill the power vacuum. I agree totally that nation-building is also one of our most powerful weapons against the terrorists. That's why I'm committed to rebuilding Afghanistan. Unfortunately our administration has yet to fulfill thier promises of aid to the Afghani gov't.

Voodoospork, also, those gay patriots would dip their wankers in alcoholic pigs blood before sodomizing the captured terrorists :-)
2002-10-21 02:08:13 AM  
Or maybe if we get a drunken pig in heat....
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