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(CNN)   New Hampshire town try to secede because they are over taxed   (cnn.com) divider line 199
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1789 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Aug 2001 at 7:46 AM (12 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2001-08-02 08:19:22 AM
NY should split too for voting Hillary Clinton into office.
 
2001-08-02 08:20:07 AM
What a well thought out and informative opinion... Thanks Clutch!
 
2001-08-02 08:22:33 AM
thats right folks i could get in my car, drive for 3 minutes AND I WOULD BE IN THIS TOWN. i'm in portsmouth, NH, and newington is right next door. Rye, also mentioned in the article is a bunch of rich white pricks with huge SUVs and pissy kids. I went to school with their kids and i hated most of them.

nearly all of these people in rye and newington can afford this easily. the article doesn't mention that the money goes to other schools in the area, especially those in nearby dirt poor towns that have no money and really suck. so these people are just being typical wealthy ayn-rand-it's-my-money-objectivists. I pay taxes too, whiners, and i have to pay for college too.

selfish pricks. by the way, they aren't actually trying to secede - it's just a statement of protest.
 
2001-08-02 08:29:55 AM
And how many of those people moved there so they could pay nice, low NH taxes while commuting to work in Boston? They get the benefits of being close to Boston without having to pay for any of the amenities available in Boston.
 
2001-08-02 08:39:05 AM
I agree with Flux. I say cuy off their gas supply and their revolt will dry up along with their SUV's gas tanks.
 
2001-08-02 08:42:52 AM
found this on a real estate page:

"Newington NH's farmland, forests, fields and waterfront are mostly enjoyed by its 850-860 residents. Newington borders Great Bay and the Piscataqua River. It is home to the first National Wildlife Refuge containing 1,100 acres and six miles of shore line. Located next to Portsmouth, Newington has all the benefits of a large city. Newington is home to two of NH's largest shopping malls and the former Pease Air Force Base - now Pease Development Authority. Other large employers located in Newington are Mobil Oil, Simplex Wire and Cable, and Public Service of NH. These businesses along with Newington's decision to only seek jobs that pay well have contributed to some of the lowest property tax rates in NH. Each year three to seven homes change hands. If you are thinking of relocating and would like additional information, please e-mail Susan Roe or call her at RE/MAX® Coast to Coast (603) 431-1111, Ext. 23. Susan's direct line 888-857-8318 rings her home phone, cell phone, and pager plus it connects you to her fax and voice mail."

so, they are pissed off about having to pay NORMAL taxes, not the low rates they were expecting when they moved in. BTW, the Pease AFB it mentions is where i work, belonging sorta to portsmouth and newington.
 
2001-08-02 08:48:19 AM
Somewhat related: I just read on CNN that the law requires SUVs to do about 20 miles per gallon (it was in the news because a proposal to raise the limit to 27 miles per gallon failed). Now that's a shiatload of gas for one car. Over in Europe, many countries have a limit around 6 liters per 100 kilometers. 1 gallon= 3.78 liters, so that's 32 km per 3.78 liters = over 10 liters per 100 km. No wonder there's an "energy crisis" in the US. Damn.
 
2001-08-02 08:48:26 AM
This is why rich people STAY rich. When someone comes along and asks them to pay a reasonable amount of taxes, they make a big stink. I like it that they mention people on "fixed incomes" who are "property rich, but income poor." Well, if they sell some of that land they inherited from their memomy then their income won't be so "fixed" will it?
 
2001-08-02 09:21:35 AM
good for them...
taxes = wellfare
 
2001-08-02 09:36:21 AM
i know reading is a challenge for you b-b-b-bill, but try it anyway. the extra taxes are for education. not welfare.
 
2001-08-02 09:36:56 AM
Come on, all the taxes-are-an-evil-international-socialist-conspiracy people are a little slow today. Let's just break up into tribes, forget this nation-state idea, and grow our own food.
 
2001-08-02 09:44:47 AM
flux:
every one knows that public schools spend tax money well... when you can demonstrate they do, let me know...
worldcitizen:
every one knows that public institutions spend tax money well...when you can demonstrate they do, let me know...
 
2001-08-02 09:50:47 AM
Bill:
When you can come up with a comprehensive plan on how to run a complex, 21st Century, technological society on no tax dollars and the good will of people and corporations, you give me a call and we'll talk. All I ever hear from the black helicopter crowd is what they are against. No one's going to listen until solutions are given. "Getting rid of taxes" is not a solution. It just says you're against taxes. How is a post-tax society organized? Who pays for the infrastructure? Who keeps the corporations from upsurping the powers of the former federal government and making them a hell of a lot more powerful than the fed. government ever thought of being?
 
2001-08-02 10:02:48 AM
"getting rid of taxes" is your phrase, not mine.
responsible spending of the taxes I pay is what I advocate.
I'll be happy when we don't hear reports of governmental waste.
As a "pubic servant", I know how easy it is to spend someone's money.
maybe yours.
 
2001-08-02 10:06:56 AM
I probably shouldn't do this, but I'm just pondering what a "pubic servant" actually does...
 
2001-08-02 10:07:30 AM
hear hear, world citizen.

demonstrating that public schools work well? how about this: portsmouth high school: great school, good programs, good classes and good teachers. i didn't go there (went to prep school) but all my friends did. they had a better film department than my private school. I have a friend who went to portsmouth high school. she did very well there, and is a sophmore at harvard now. I'm a sophmore at cornell. public and private schools both work. ta da.
 
wow
2001-08-02 10:14:20 AM
you go to exeter flux? just curious...we swam against them.
 
2001-08-02 10:15:00 AM
New Hampshire people are infamously tightfisted, even by New England standards. It's quite funny to watch the NH PBS station's annual begging ritual. Last year after a few hours one of the presenters said "So far, almost all our callers are from Massachusetts... Come on, New Hampshire people, we know you're watching."
 
2001-08-02 10:17:10 AM
Wow. People that actually believe that they should be able to keep money that belongs to them to begin with. What will they think of next.....
 
2001-08-02 10:17:53 AM
what is a portsmouth?
"public service" means a teacher in one of the top five largest school systems in the country with a budget approximating the budget of the FBI, half of which goes for administrative costs.
flux, when you start paying taxes, you'll maybe worry about how your contribution is being spent.
 
2001-08-02 10:23:10 AM
portsmouth is the town i live in, smartypants.

wow: yeah, i did. class of 00.
 
2001-08-02 10:23:49 AM
and I do pay taxes. can you read?
 
2001-08-02 10:42:30 AM
flux:
where is portMOUTH?
graduated from high school in 2000, did you?
You paid a lot in taxes, I'm sure...
 
2001-08-02 10:47:25 AM
er wow.... Sounds like a bunch of winey rich peoeple who do not want to do their part in improving socity. I say we let them succesed and we test our Stupied Missle defence system there.

Flux we can let you AIM it : P

Hehe, If you went to pubic school, college, drive on the roads, are glad there are stop signs, pay a reasonable energy price, or just like to know that some guy can't just run off with your crap because they want to. (with out probully getting caught and put in jail). Then you are paying for goods and services.. They are paying for stuff that allows our economy and nation to run properly. You probully end up with more money in the long run because of how the taxes help certain things get accomplished. On the other hand I don't want to pay more then is needed... But at the moment I pay my taxes and am happy doing so.
 
2001-08-02 10:48:08 AM
And I pay taxes too. It's part of living in a modern, complex society. It's your contribution to civilization. Civilization ain't free. If you don't want to contribute to the society around you, and want to keep everything for yourself, move to a nice island. I actually like living in a society that helps take care of its poor, provides free education for all, explores space, has a public police force, supports higher education, doesn't deny people available medical treatment because they are poor, contributes to research and development, and spends a reasonable amount on defense. That is what I pay taxes for. Nothing is for free. Yes, there is waste. Yes, it should be eliminated. But there will always be some waste. We live in a society of 280,000,000 people. There are going to be some scam artists, cheaters, and general scum. This does not mean we throw the whole thing away.
 
2001-08-02 10:50:44 AM
b-b-b-bill: you're really confused about portsmouth, huh? you can't even spell it right. it's in sourthern NH, on the ocean, pop 23,000, capitol of the e-coast. here's the site.

i've worked in web design for the past 5 years, and a big chunk of my paycheck is taken off. no, that's not as much as I will pay when I buy a house, but it doesn't mean i don't pay taxes at all. for all the talking you do, you seem to know less about them than I do.
 
2001-08-02 10:56:09 AM
damn, flux...i'd like to see how you feel about paying taxes once you graduate colleege and jump a few tax brackets. you'll be very excited at first because you're going to be making so much more money...but then you'll realize that you were actually taking home more when you had the crappy $8/hr job.

the only way to really succeed and not eat dirt your whole life is to avoid taxes...but it's a real pain in the arse and very expensive...only not as expensive as paying the taxes.

i don't have a lot of answers to how we could live without taxes, i do know what a crappy feeling it is seeing about half of the money i make go to someone else.
 
wow
2001-08-02 10:58:56 AM
Eh...everyone pays taxes. I love where i live, so i couldnt care less how high they are. Ill pay them. New hampshire should quit their whining, if they cant afford it, move elsewhere. Thats life.
 
2001-08-02 11:00:18 AM
Hell, now that I think about it, I paid taxes to a foreign government for a year. I will receive nothing back from that. I paid into their pension fund. I helped pay for their roads, health care, and all that good stuff. Guess, what? I'm not crying or whining about it. I lived in their society; it was my responsibility to contribute to it.
 
2001-08-02 11:04:59 AM
I've had it! I'm moving to the Grand Duchy of Fenwick.
 
2001-08-02 11:07:43 AM
"crappy $8/hr job?" try twice that...
it's just part of life in a society. currently, every dollar I make goes to tuition, and if i have enough extra after that, maybe i can buy a cd burner. when i graduate, i'll get a job, and only some of the money i make will be taken by taxes.

look at college as a miniature country. tuition goes to housing costs, staff, food, security and professors, just as taxes go to government programs, defense, police and government officials. in a sense, i'm already accquainted with the system, just on a smaller scale. i pay to go to college, you pay to live in the US.

besides, standard tution costs are much higher than any of you pay in taxes every year, so wouldn't it work out that i pay more than you and therefore should be more bitter and jaded than you?
 
2001-08-02 11:07:47 AM
Wolfe_man

Under no cermemstance under the same conditions, will you take home more making $8, then when you are making 20$... NEVER. You will be paying a highter % as you should be... One more dollar will never cause you to make less... You will pay more but will not make less... At the moment I pay about 38% income tax, it suxs but it is for the better good of me and everyone. I just find it funny that anyone would say that anyone would take home more making 8$ an hour... If that was true then why arn't you working at the super market? Because you are taking home more now, and you know it..
 
2001-08-02 11:09:03 AM
flux:
NH, 23,000, ha, ha, ha; yuppie city and state.
wow and world citizen:
if you don't care, send me $15,000 to help pay my taxes...
I don't mind paying, I'm not crazy about the waste, that's why I vote.
 
2001-08-02 11:09:16 AM
Flux: Soooo just because one can afford to pay taxes, they should pay more. Are you one of those that talks about people having more money than they NEED?
Why do we even bother to achieve, earn a living, prepare for our kids' futures and our own retirement if it'll just be taxed away and we don't really NEED it anyway?
Of course anyone with a high salary is just going to go out and buy a Lexus and a private jet and instead of that they should just let the gov't spend it...cause of course they can do a MUCH better job of spending it, right?
 
2001-08-02 11:12:47 AM
That's just it though. People aren't thinking. Yes, a lot of your tax money does go to "someone else". A lot of it does not. In a lot of ways, our society functions because of our collective organization. Your money goes to build the roads you drive to work on. Your money goes to pay the police so that you don't have to hire a private security guard for your property. Your money goes to pay people to protect YOUR neighborhood/city/state/country so that you don't have to fend off an entire army by yourself. Your money goes to pay for the education of the next generation so that your society can be prosperous and you can make more money. Your money goes into investing in the infrastructure that your business uses to move its goods/services so that you can make more money. Your money goes to help people who have lost their jobs and to help them get back on their feet so that they can get back to contributing to society and helping you to pay less taxes.
Your money just doesn't disappear magically. You still use it.
 
2001-08-02 11:13:52 AM
>

pays for poor women to have illegitimate babies

>

hardly free...it's only fee for people that don't own property. and communities where there are a lot of those people have a much lower quality education. it's not free..the cost is just hidden.

>

hardly...we haven't been back to the moon in a long time. the amount of money being put into the space program has shrunk to just a fraction of a percent of what it was when we did go there. we should have been to mars by now, except the government lost interest in space, but still wants to hold a monopoly on it's exploration.

>

that arrests people for having a pissing calvin sticker...

>

how's that? most people that i knew in college didn't have any government support..

>

what does the government have to with that? that money comes from private charity..not government taxes.

>

to pork barrel projects, or projects for companies that have congressmen as CEO's and board members.

the largest portons of our tax dollars go to welfare type programs. if you're interested in seeing some ideas on how we can be closer to tax free, go here.
 
2001-08-02 11:16:01 AM
grav8e: no, thats not what i'm saying. i'm saying that the people here are paying the same taxes that my town is. generally, newington is wealthier than portsmouth, and no one in portsmouth is complaining. i certainly don't believe that all the money you don't need should be taken away, but i do get annoyed that the wealthy ones, in their nice cars and giant houses, are usually the ones who complain about it, not the people, like my family, who have to save up to get a new coat of paint on the house.
 
2001-08-02 11:18:04 AM
Grav8e

"preparing for our kids"
God forbit but what if something happens to you. Your childeren will be taken care of my the Taxes untill they are 18 or drop out of school.. This is preparing for your kids..

You will always make more money to make more money, will never have less for succeeding more.. If this was true everyone's dream job would be flipping burgers and delivering papers.... No people try to succeced because they will get a better life. Sometime I wonder if some people have any clue how much the governemtn does for us. You pay less in taxes now then you would for engergy if the government wasnot there to regulate it... This allows companies to prosper and pay you even more money... So... you could say my paying taxes you are "preparing for your futute, and your childresn future" There are some essental things the the government provides. The road u drive to work everyday is proubly cost more then you would ever dream of making in your life time... but by you and everyone else paying a relitivley SMALL amount.. You can get to work... The place you work for can ship their product, or more efficently provide the service... I am saying with out taxes you would nto have a job to start with... Well a lot less jobs anyway.
 
2001-08-02 11:18:27 AM
hrm...those were responses to line items from worldcitizen's post.

anyway...the $8/hr thing was an exaggeration, but the point is that th more you work and the higher level of responsibility doesn't lead to a linear gain of income...because of taxes.
 
2001-08-02 11:18:31 AM
Wolfe_man if you really want to piss them off, move in on the taxes equals theft angle... they hate that one because there really isn't any way to get around that except to avoid the issue...
 
2001-08-02 11:20:15 AM
bullshiat...any sensible parent will make certain tha their children's future will be secure through life insurance and god-parents before allowing them to become "wardens of the state". who would want their kids raised in by the government?
 
2001-08-02 11:21:07 AM
Every time your kids pass through the doors of a public school, they ARE ALREADY "wards of the state" and being "raised by the government". Look how well THAT works...
 
2001-08-02 11:23:00 AM
heh..not my kids. my kids will be able to teach in public school by the time they are 8.
 
2001-08-02 11:23:55 AM
Bill, pay your own damn taxes. I pay mine. And I don't even biatch.
 
2001-08-02 11:24:51 AM
Wolfe

"most the people i went to college with did not get any governmetn support"

Did you goto a Public school? If so you had government support by just not paying as high of tuitions... There is more then grants, and loans. I pay a lower interest because of some government help. I goto a public school and pay a lower tuition...

Why does it have a monopoly on space travel?
I tell you why it is economicly unfeasable for any other orginization to do it. At the moment there is very little or no economic use that space exprations can provide that would offset the start up and operation costs.

One reason the government has lost interest is because much of the nation has lost interest and does not want as much of their money going to the space program..
 
2001-08-02 11:29:45 AM
Yeah I don't want the goverment raiseing my child eather... What it does though is... Every month a child gets a small cheak from the govenment to help who ever is currenly care for the child. Stuff happens, inserence sometimes does not pay( and you will not be around to fight for it). I know good parenting should do the trick, and in most cases i hope it will.. I am sure your children are being taking of by there family. If you lose your job... can't pay your insurence... You lose it... now what? I don't think we need to pay for someone to have 400$ meals everyday.. But I can pay 1cent a day for some child to keep food in there belly.
 
2001-08-02 11:31:38 AM
I have no problems with that, Clanjade.... it's when you put a gun to my head and tell me I HAVE to help take care of everyone else who isn't able that I have issues with it.
 
2001-08-02 11:39:13 AM
the reason everyone hates taxes in america is because they see it as a chunk of their money going to someone else; they don't see government spending as helping them in any way. you know, a lot of people are ingrates who take a big portion of their standard of living for granted. without taxes, you can forget about national defense, because no one would volunteer their money to protect the nation because they have no proof that anyone else would do the same. it's called shirking, and it's the reason communism doesn't work. even if some altruistic bill gates did front the money for national defense, the money would run out quickly, and we've still only covered one facet of what the government offers its citizens. don't get me wrong, i'm no fan of the way the government is run (i know how wasteful it can be; i work for the va state gov), but the government has no immediate indicators of inefficiency - there's no profit that can vary depending on how well everything is run. it can't be like that though, because people would start shirking and no one would pay for public services. there's not really a feasible alternative to our current system that's better than what we have now. so you can biatch about how much "it sucks", or you can try to change it, or you can just not worry about it. no system is perfect, our goverment is no exception, live with it or try to find a place to live where you don't have to pay taxes.

there's my one-and-a-half cents
 
2001-08-02 11:41:10 AM
it may be naive, but i think a great way to do taxes would be a sorta checklist where you fill out what government programs you want your money to go to. i'd definitely put money towards education and such, and im sure plenty of people would. that way, these people in newington who dont think education is very important don't have to pay for it. they can put their money towards something else. i think it would end a lot of complaining about taxes, and it would definitely help educate the public to how important their tax money is and how much it actually benefits them in the big picture. you'd still have to pay, but you'd have control over where your money goes.
 
2001-08-02 11:44:10 AM
I love the "fact" that everyone likes to point out about "this would never work if it was strictly volunteer-based".

LOTS of things are strictly voluntary. How many people are currently serving in all branches of the United States Military as of this moment?

Somebody please post some statistics of exactly how many of those people are serving by being coerced into it. I'm really curious how we have so many people serving if strictly voluntary systems do not function.

And the problem that many of us have with the current tax scheme is not so much that we are "seeing a large chunk of our money going to someone else".... it's the fact that we have no choice about it. Pay taxes, go to prison. Pay taxes, go to prison.

Some people never get it through their heads that even if we are creating the most wonderful society in the world, forcing people to do things against their will, and taking peoples' property without their consent will cause RESENTMENT.
 
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