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(Pravda)   World Oil Exchanges Burning Up   (english.pravda.ru) divider line 165
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1095 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Oct 2002 at 9:27 PM (12 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2002-10-18 10:12:58 PM  
OH NO SADDAM WAS OUR FRIEND IN THE 80'S SO NOW WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING TO HIM, OUR FOREIGN POLICY MUST STAY STATIC FOREVER

i can't just image these people in 1944

"STOP ATTACKING GERMANY, WE USED TO HAVE DIPLOMATIC RELATIONS WITH THEM SO WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING NOW"
 
2002-10-18 10:14:00 PM  
Chad~ "Democracy" is the biggest snake oil ever sold by the US Empire ever! The US Empire has destroyed no less than 12--twelve--"democracies" and replaced the democratically-elected leaders with dick-tators.

"Democracy" is just a smoke shield to give the US Empire excuses to operate with impunity world-wide. The blood of those people who lost their lives to US-installed dick-tators is on your hands, as your (and millions of others, like you, who are otherwise intelligent, productive persons) woeful lack of understanding has enabled the US Empire to become the prime nation-destroyer in the world.

Wake up. Take the red pill.
 
2002-10-18 10:14:28 PM  
Tarzan, the matrix has me! :-))

OrphanedWombat, Saddam made us his enemy? And it must be so because otherwise it doesn't make sense to you eh? Perhaps you should study the beginnings of the Gulf War if you wish to prove such a claim.
 
2002-10-18 10:15:13 PM  
Tarzan: www.indymedia.org

I think you are lost
 
2002-10-18 10:16:12 PM  
Tree, if he annexed Kuwait, hey, that's more oil for our friendly pet dictator. We could have just censored debate in the UN and kept Saddam on our buddy list with even MORE oil for him to export to us for covering his ass.

Sigh. OK, here's Reality 101:

The Emir of Kuwait is a very, very rich man. he's a very, very good friend of the US. He controls lots and lots of oil. He's a very generous, very rich, very powerful and very pro-US man. In short -- he's exactly the kind of guy we go to war to protect.

Saddam's usefulness to us expired once the Iran/Iraq war ended. We no longer needed him.

So, in choosing between the Emir and Saddam, who do you think we'd select?

I'm done with you now. Please try reading a book or something. Thank you.
 
2002-10-18 10:16:38 PM  
Tree of Woe, the only fact that you have presented is 1 quote from 1 oil analyst. If you wish to fly in the face of everything that has been talked about on the issue then you should present more facts than that.
 
2002-10-18 10:18:08 PM  
Chrisifa~ "Lost". What? I go to Indymedia all the time. Of what of my points do you think is mistaken?
 
2002-10-18 10:18:38 PM  
Tree_of_Woe, funny how oil was never mentioned in your above equation. In fact you have proven my point quite nicely, thankyou. The Gulf War was about Iraq attacking our ally and friend.
 
2002-10-18 10:20:30 PM  
Bbcrackmonkey,

Saddam was set on disrupting the balance of power in the Middle East, and that wouldn't be in the best interest of the US. That makes him an enemy, and it was entirely his choice, not that of the US.
Thus, a friendly beatdown, and the desire for him to be replaced with someone more pliable.
 
2002-10-18 10:22:41 PM  
Didn't Charlie Sheen kill Sadamm in Hot Shots Part Deux?
 
2002-10-18 10:23:16 PM  
And if you're curious how oil comes into the equation, when we're protecting a friend and ally, read the previous post on stability and it's effect on oil prices.
 
2002-10-18 10:23:39 PM  
OrphanedWombat, why would we care about the balance of power in the Mid-East as long as the oil was flowing, which wouldn't have been a problem as long as we were friends with Saddam?

But I was unaware that Saddam was the one who made the decision for the US to attack Iraq. Thanks for that tidbit of knowledge.
 
2002-10-18 10:24:07 PM  
FYI,

Kuwait **was** once part of Iraq! It was carved away during the WWII realignment *purposely* by the ba$tard elite as a future site for a future war. NO joke. That's part of their strategy, which is to carve away prime sites that serve very well as flash points for wars to develop. The Kashmirs is another example.

The ba$tard elite is our *real* problem.
 
2002-10-18 10:24:14 PM  
Tree_of_Woe, funny how oil was never mentioned in your above equation. In fact you have proven my point quite nicely, thankyou. The Gulf War was about Iraq attacking our ally and friend.

This must be like an online "Crank Yankers" or something, right? I mean, you can't actually believe what you're writing?

The entire issue of the gulf war was -- do we want Saddam Hussein in charge of Kuwait's Oil Wells or do we want the Emir?

However, if you think your point has been proven, feel free to indulge your fantasy. I'm sure it's quite lovely in whatever world you inhabit.

later.

....and Peace!
 
2002-10-18 10:24:42 PM  
CACA!: That was on tv over here the other day. Can't believe I still find myself giggling like a big scaryloooking schoolgirl at that movie.
 
2002-10-18 10:25:29 PM  
Tarzan, are you from Cali? -Thought so, it all makes sense now.

If you want facts then learn something about economics and human nature. In your tin-foil hat world everyone is a big evil monster, and I can relate because I was once 5 years old, but in the real world people trade for goods, as they have done for countless millenia. No one has to do business with us, and you dont have to work for a big scary corporation. Luckily it is still somewhat possible to support yourself without working for anyone, but it takes a lot of effort to pull that off.

Too bad we dont live in the good ol' days when all you needed was a strong donkey, some seeds, and a shower once per season, eh?
 
2002-10-18 10:25:50 PM  
The only instability that Saddam caused was his invasion of Kuwait. Our invasion of Iraq and the Iran/Iraq war as well as the Israeli conflict have all been FAR larger sources of instability in the Middle East.
 
2002-10-18 10:26:14 PM  
Yeah right the war against terrorism has nothing to do with:
the Two attacks on the World Trade Center
the attack on the USS Cole
Beirut Embassy Bombing
The bombing of Marine Barracks in Beirut
The bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania
Etc, etc, etc.

It's only about the oil, yeah keep telling yourselves that. (Sarcasm)

...and as for North Korea we may in the end have to go to war with them as well, but we currently have a large portion of our forces in the middle east, and that is where the US militaries attention is focused at this time, and that is the area where the most imminent threat resides.
 
2002-10-18 10:27:02 PM  
Oops, forgot, and 14 KIDS to do the work when you're 40 and can't dig dirt like you used to.
 
2002-10-18 10:27:46 PM  
Bbcrackmonkey:

OrphanedWombat, why would we care about the balance of power in the Mid-East as long as the oil was flowing, which wouldn't have been a problem as long as we were friends with Saddam?

If one entity gains control over to much of the oil, then some would worry that they don't stay friendly for long, but might exploit their economic leverage. Divide and conquer is preferrable.
 
2002-10-18 10:27:56 PM  
i'm moving to canada. really.
 
2002-10-18 10:30:07 PM  
Oh, you know what? You guys have convinced me. Iraq is all about oil. I give up.

You also know what? Serbia wasn't about some Kosovo 'genocide', it was about coal. Vietnam wasn't about defending South Vietnam from Communist insurgents, it was about Nike Sweat shops. WWII wasn't about 'Pearl Harbor', it was about Germany and Japan's natural resources. They already had the infrastructure and facilities in place, eh?
 
2002-10-18 10:30:44 PM  
Chad~

The saddest spectacle in the realm of human existence is the matrix slave who thinks that he/she is free and it seems sadly that you fit that to a "t". Did you study economics? I did and had to undo all that economic brainwashing from my university years. I learned a lot about human nature, much more so outside of the university than inside it. Universities are full of sheeiit.
 
2002-10-18 10:32:30 PM  
Lots of interesting comments on here tonight. The only thing that bothers me is the "emminent threat" thing and the proposed solution. I'm not recommending appeasement, (I know I can't spell and I'm too lazy right now to find a spell-checker), but what is wrong with just cutting them off? Most of the countries we have a problem with are on the U.S./European welfare dole. Let them sink or swim on their own, and sooner or later they might want to join us.

Saddam and most of the other dickheads in the world live on foreign aid. Take that away, keep the sanctions, and they have a lot less to fight about because they will be worried about feeding themselves.
 
2002-10-18 10:35:36 PM  
ChadManMn, Iraq doesn't live on foreign aid, it lives off of the meager supplies that the Oil for Food program allows. I reallly don't know what we can do about Iraq, but invasion doesn't seem like a horrible idea. A democracy in Iraq would be a major blow to the Islamofascists.

Tarzan, I'm very sorry that your mind has deteriorated since your college years to a paranoid and delusional shell of what it once was.
 
2002-10-18 10:40:25 PM  
Monkey~ "paranoid and delusional"? Just what about my posts qualify for such labels? What facts do you have to support your positions that could trump my assertions? Your facts are from the mainstream news? Oh, the blue-pill news, in other words. Ok, I get it. Try the red pill sometime.
 
2002-10-18 10:40:57 PM  
I'll tell you what third-worlders, I'll give up oil, the foundation of my society, if you give up yours, a population of repressed and brainwashed farm laborers with no human rights.
 
2002-10-18 10:42:03 PM  
I will be laughing so hard when America has set up a democracy in Iraq and you hear all the citizens talking freely like the kurds do now under the no fly zone
 
2002-10-18 10:43:12 PM  
Tarz, yeah I've studied economics but not in a university. I studied human nature where I learned economics, in my daily life with a little bit (or a lot) of reading on the side.

I didn't see "the matrix" so I don't know what you're referring too, but I can assure you that I'm quite willing to work my 45-65 hours a week in a climate controlled environment and a comfortable chair at the hands of a greedy corporation in exchange for a nice life.

I saw the tail end of the "sustinance" age (again I admit that I cant spell), they being my great-grandparents living in northern Mn, and I have no problem using my mind and whatever else I can arrange to live in a nice city and a house that has no bats in the attic and walls, no mice in the cellar, no cows out back to milk at 5 am when its -30 below, no corn to cut to feed the cows before the ice and snow knocks it down, and only 3 kids to teach, instead of the half dozen or more that I would probably need to keep up that pace.

What would you do in Cali if things went bad? Could you live on your own? I kind of doubt it, but for the sake of conversation, I could.
 
2002-10-18 10:45:53 PM  
when are you people gonna get hardcore? Jeez louise..
 
2002-10-18 10:46:28 PM  
ChadManMn: It's Venezuela.
 
2002-10-18 10:50:16 PM  
Terrorists? In SAUDI ARABIA?

What, is it homecoming already?

Come on, what are the odds?
 
2002-10-18 10:50:38 PM  
Chrisifa: That would be a great outcome, but it isn't very easy to get there. There are a lot of different factions in Iraq who would love to come to power, but most of them aren't of a democratic mindset.
A successful democracy should be based on an educated populace under no military threat, domestic or foreign. This is unlikely to happen. If democracy is imposed on a country like Iraq, then I suspect it will fail.
But it would be great, and I would laugh right along with you if it were to come about.
 
2002-10-18 10:51:49 PM  
BbCrackMonkey, I'm not sure about Iraq's income. I know that North Korea gets quite a bit of money from us directly, and maybe I made an assumption about Iraq. But, that is the direct money. What about the IMF? That is a world-wide welfare program, so if Iraq gets IMF money they are on the dole.

I don't know what could be done about it all either, but I wish the govt would quit treating us like a bunch of dipshiats and tell us the facts.

I could care less if they "devulge military secrets". They are asking us to support something that we dont have the facts about. But, I also realize the need for secrecy because you don't want your informants getting capped.

I just hope they know what they are doing, and for the most part I trust them. I would have said the same things in 1941.
 
2002-10-18 10:53:13 PM  
Chad: Typical American Attitude
 
2002-10-18 10:53:36 PM  
Indeed, we'd all be laughing when we see Democracy in Iraq. Some at the naysayers who opposed the US, and some of us at ourselves for the same thing.
 
2002-10-18 10:55:37 PM  
Chad~

Well, life's a series of trade-offs, with each giving us traders hoped-for better lives. I can see where you are coming from; thanks for the info. Go get the tape of the movie "Matrix"; it's amazing.

Oh I can survive very easily for several years on my own totally. I have full backpacks ready to go at moment's notice (one for me and two for my llama). I have lots of food stored on hand--enough to feed me and several women for many months without new food input. I hope that I won't need to fall back on the stuff, but have it just in case. It's all sproutable seeds of all kinds--no pre-cooked foods at all. I have plenty of gear for fresh raw meat to eat. Plus plenty of chicken/goats for yummy fresh foods.

I don't wish to have to survive in the boonies--I'd rather help our old Republic re-create itself, but perhaps after a total economic collapse happens, my dream can happen. With honest money, people and corporations will be able to make a he11 of a lot more money.

We only need to fire the elite banking ba$tards. They're the real problem.
 
2002-10-18 10:57:05 PM  
Gracias Veze_. I hope things are getting better for you guys down there. Buenos Noches (I probably didn't spell that right either ;) )
 
2002-10-18 10:59:04 PM  
hmmm-,ChadManMn and i for an e in sustenance? could be the Al querdas moving in on fark! keep a vigilant eye out folks!
 
2002-10-18 10:59:05 PM  
Tarzan, I think you should pop the Matrix out of the VCR and then realize that total economic collapse will never happen, and also realize that even if it did you would not need food for "several women" lol. Like I said, delusional.
 
2002-10-18 11:00:22 PM  
Tarzan - can you back up any of your "facts" from a source OTHER than somebody's GEOCITIES homepage?
 
2002-10-18 11:01:55 PM  
Of course, if the US does install a dictator in Iraq, which cannot be ruled out, then expect me to be demonstrating in the streets with you guys and raising hell.
 
2002-10-18 11:02:00 PM  
Tarzan - awaawawawawawawawawa....

Got all dem' dere' supplies leftover from Y2K? How'd that work out for you?
 
2002-10-18 11:02:57 PM  
NorthVentricle, would you mind explaining how you differ with my opinion? Do you have a problem with the western world lifestyle you enjoy? Could you please explain how you are feeding the poor in the third world? Is there a valid reason for your moral superiority, or is it just 20 something angst?

-Feeling guilty for having a nice life? Who knows, maybe you earned the nice life somehow, or maybe you earned the guilt.
 
2002-10-18 11:04:15 PM  
disgusting.

you gonna sit here all night and bad mouth each other like retards, or are you going to drop the grade-school talk and behave like intelligent adults?
 
2002-10-18 11:05:29 PM  
I'll throw my 2 cents in:

1) The 'War on Terrorism' in my opion, was a ruse, as the damn FBI and CIA knew the 'attack' on the US was going to take place. Why would they allow it to happen? Bout the same reason FDR would allow Hawaii to be hit in WW2. My question still is, where was the rpesident during the attack? No where near washington. But then again, I hate Bush and there is alot of infomation out there to manipulate to make it seem he just let it happen. As Dubya is nothing but a puppet anyway.

2) Iraq was our friend, then they attack Kuwait so we attack them. Due to the fact that oil prices might rise, and we would lose money. as started before, we stoped being friends with Iraq after the Iraqi Iran war. Don;t think so? Why are we not in the countries in Aferica freeing the Christians that are dealing with Genocide? (cause they are poor and won;t give us money.) Money is the one thing that makes american politics work, has been this way for a while.

3) It was asked if Veitham was about sweat shops, well it was not abbout bringing democracy. We were 'scared' of communism, why? Cause it threatens our economic intrest.

4) Zionist who rule our country happens to be the biggest peice of mokey crap i ever heard. There are no Zionist, only rich CEO's who want to earn more money, and make there pockets budgle. EVERYTHING the us does both forein and domestic has to do with one thing: Money! We went to 'war with terror' cause Afganistan would bring us a NEW market for american goods. Don;t belive me? just wait.

All the US governemt is, is a bunch of power and money hungry war mongers. If we weren't we would not need shiat like corprate welfare which gives away 400 billion dollars in usless crap. Nor would we just be focusing on Iraq, when Pakistan, India, N. Korea, and other pose the same threat. All it will take is some war monger in Pakistan or Inda and we will hav the nuclear war we have all been fearing, one stray nuke, and bye bye earth.
 
2002-10-18 11:05:45 PM  
Tarzan, that's impressive and I'm not being sarcastic. The problem (in my mind) is that you're relying on the other 36 million Cali-ites to die or move if things got -really- bad. I wouldn't take that bet.
 
2002-10-18 11:06:14 PM  
Frumbehind~

www.copvcia.com is a good site for factual information. I've met Mike Ruppert, who is sincere in his efforts and will not put out any information that cannot be introduced in any court.

www.whatreallyhappened.com is another good one. Not all information in this is all provable facts, but the site strives to put out good information.

www.supremelaw.com is a good source for Law info.
 
2002-10-18 11:06:16 PM  
NorthVentricle: This is FARK. What do you think??
 
2002-10-18 11:06:28 PM  
NorthVent - Typical Canadian Elitist. :P


They're the real problem. Check out www.homepages/paranoid.com?8675309/sunshinevalley/members/homepages?id=666/~bo bspage/zionistagenda.htm
 
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