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(JSOnline)   Beware, the "Silver Tsunami" is about to strike. In 2008, the first wave of a generation 78 million strong will hit the Social Security system   (jsonline.com) divider line 181
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8907 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Jan 2008 at 5:04 PM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-01-01 06:48:32 PM
darkhorse23: I, for one, welcome the ability to get back the hundreds of thousands that have been forceably taken from my paychecks week after week, decade after decade, that went to support your grandpa, grandma, and their parents before them.

You are going to get FAR more than what you paid in. If people only got back what they paid in SS would have been abandoned years ago. It's a glorified pyramid scheme.
 
2008-01-01 06:48:46 PM
soze: Great!

Does that mean they'll finally be letting their gnarled hands go of some jobs now?



While they might've been able to dodge layoffs and downsizing due to knowing the right people, and being with companies for such a long time. They aren't the problem. Those jobs are gone when they leave anyway.

Once executives figured out they could make a huge Christmas bonus by shiat canning the middle class and sending their jobs over seas, the downward spiral of America began. And it's not going to stop anytime soon. Third world strife here we come.

It's going to be the have's and the have nots, and nothing in between. And that's why communism starts to look good. It all comes full circle.

/not a communist, just sayin
 
2008-01-01 06:51:51 PM
rewind2846: I tell my niece (20) all the time to start an IRA now... maxing it out ($2,000) every year with only a measly 7% return (worst case), she'll be a millionaire before she can collect social security... if it still exists...

But young'uns don't think that far ahead...




maybe if you stopped lying to them, they would bother listening.


In my ten years of retirement saving the average of stock and bonds and mutuals and everything else in my wonderful and diversified portfolio is something like 5%.

maybe the next ten years will be super awesome and it will all average out, but I kinda doubt it.

I get a real big kick out of all these dumb retirement planning packages that use 10% as the expected return. Nothing but a pack of greedy liars.
 
2008-01-01 06:54:51 PM
Its time we started building those nutrient vats and harvested our old as a food source.

/why yes, I am feeling rather peckish.
 
2008-01-01 06:54:53 PM
yakmans_dad: It's a myth that the Social Security system is threatened with insolvency. It's sound 40 years out. By which time the Boomers will be long dead.

...and some of us will just be getting to retirement age. THAT is the problem.
 
2008-01-01 06:56:08 PM
"tout le monde" pretty well nails it.

In the old days, you went to work for a company, stayed there all your life, saved your money and retired. They took care of you. The three legs of personal savings, company retirement and Social Security were your assurance of a comfortable old age.

Well, these days retirement is a myth, most people don't have any savings to speak of, and as for Socialist Insecurity? What a joke!

SS is basically a Ponzi scheme, and pays good returns to the early comers by handing them their own money right back. That draws a new pool of suckers, and as long as the pool expands, you are technically okay.

If the pool ever shrinks---watch out!

Back when I entered the work force in 1966, I paid 3% of my income to provide an average check of $185 to every SS recipient. Today, people pay about twice as much to provide roughly half as much, in real dollar terms.

The whole suckin' mother is going to collapse, baby. Hillary will bring it down faster than her opponent if she wis, but it is only a matter of time.
 
2008-01-01 06:56:22 PM
kilgorn: I just turned 50, worked all my life and.....

I'll see a Vulcan before I ever see a SS check...

/same for you
//if close to my age



can the melodrama. You will get your checks. SS doesn't care if you are a conservative and don't believe in SS, you will still get your checks, and you will certainly deposit them.
 
2008-01-01 06:56:54 PM
I figure this way: I'm not going to see what I'm paying in when I'm able to retire in 30 years, so what the government is taking from me is going to my mother. I guess that when I'm old and what I've managed save runs out I'll be sitting huddled under blankets in an unheated house in the dark waiting for the cats to bring me my dinner of city pigeon that I'll cook over a fire made of bits of twig from the trees in my yard.
 
2008-01-01 07:02:36 PM
A Tout Le Monde: I've heard that there is "no such thing" as a social security fund. The money is gone, and spent on government programs (military, welfare, Haliburton, whatever).

The people paying into social security are directly paying people's social security paychecks. Whatever is left over is immediately diverted to other government beaureaucracy. There is no "fund", or savings. In essence it's a pyramid scam that will start to fall apart as people start living longer.

Is that correct?


That is correct. The current estimate for equilibrium, when the incoming checks won't cover the payouts is 2017. And even when the Boomers die off, it doesn't get any better. Social Security was based on family structures and life expectancies of 75 years ago. It is not built to handle people having 1-2 kids, then living to be 90.

This will be ignored as long as possible, because nobody wants to cut benefits or to pay for them. At that point, we will have to royally screw at least 2 generations to fix it (by stealing their previous and/or future contributions, for which they will receive no benefit.) The Boomers will not likely be one of them.
 
2008-01-01 07:07:48 PM
dbaggins: In my ten years of retirement saving the average of stock and bonds and mutuals and everything else in my wonderful and diversified portfolio is something like 5%.

You must really suck at investing. I don't know anyone who's made less than 10% in any given year in the last 5 before 2007. I did better, but a lot of friends were at 6-8% last week.
 
2008-01-01 07:08:11 PM
teribeth
rewind2846: I tell my niece (20) all the time to start an IRA now... maxing it out ($2,000) every year with only a measly 7% return (worst case), she'll be a millionaire before she can collect social security... if it still exists...

But young'uns don't think that far ahead...


I'd like to but I currently don't have that much spare cash. Or any spare cash. I'm all about squirreling away resources though.

Well $2k a year may sound big, but it's only $166/month, or about $5.50/day... or about 41 minutes of work at minimum wage in california... most folks her age spend more on that in fast food per month... and if you have it taken out before, you may not even notice it... think about it... 41 minutes a day to retire.
 
2008-01-01 07:09:49 PM
rooftop235: FDR had a good idea.
Our government did not take care and nurture that idea properly. Instead, they drained and butchered the system to fatten their own pockets.
So people in government work as little as 20 hours PER YEAR, and make 50k PER YEAR doing it. WITH PERKS.

WTF?????????????

Dont blame Bush, dont blame FDR. Blame the asshats who raped it.


The problem with Social Security the initial beneficiaries were seniors in the 1930s who recieved benfits without paying into the system. It was a pyramid scheme long before Johnson got his hands on it and made it worse. While its understandable that seniors needed to be removed from the workforce in the 1930s so the limited opportunities in the 1930s would go to younger more able-bodied people, Social Security was neverpresented as that.
 
2008-01-01 07:12:31 PM
dbaggins
maybe if you stopped lying to them, they would bother listening.
In my ten years of retirement saving the average of stock and bonds and mutuals and everything else in my wonderful and diversified portfolio is something like 5%.


If you go with shiatty piddly-ass investment vehicles, that's what you're going to get. Most investment folks recommend that folks in their 20s and 30s go for riskier, higher yield investments... over the long haul (40-50 years) those will pay off much bigger than the safe ones. Of course if you're 60 years old, risk is not something you want...
 
2008-01-01 07:14:34 PM
shlybluz

...which you'll tell those damn kids to stay out of...
 
2008-01-01 07:17:48 PM
My father died recently. He was 53 days short of 84 when he passed.

He enlisted at age 18, three months after Pearl Harbor, served 4 years, then took off four years between wars. He re-enlisted for Korea, and stayed on until he retired in 1968.

It works out to 39 years of retirement for about 20 years of work.

If you sire a kid at 18, you can draw SS alongside him when he is 62 and you are 80; if you can last to 98, you can draw with your grandson as well.

It takes 40 quarters, equal to 10 years of work, to qualify; if you retire at 62, and live to the average span of 76, that is 14 years of retirement on 10 years of work.
 
2008-01-01 07:18:12 PM
rewind2846: dbaggins
maybe if you stopped lying to them, they would bother listening.
In my ten years of retirement saving the average of stock and bonds and mutuals and everything else in my wonderful and diversified portfolio is something like 5%.

If you go with shiatty piddly-ass investment vehicles, that's what you're going to get. Most investment folks recommend that folks in their 20s and 30s go for riskier, higher yield investments... over the long haul (40-50 years) those will pay off much bigger than the safe ones. Of course if you're 60 years old, risk is not something you want...




I'm 80% domestic equity. That's riskier than any planners even recommend. not "piddly-ass".


There is what planners and investment people tell you, and then there is reality. Take out fees, load, etc. Do not read what your statements from your IRA and 401K/403B managers say your return has been, compute it yourself.

most all of you are not making what you think you are making.
 
2008-01-01 07:23:12 PM
dbaggins: There is what planners and investment people tell you, and then there is reality. Take out fees, load, etc. Do not read what your statements from your IRA and 401K/403B managers say your return has been, compute it yourself.

Low-fee index funds = WIN!

Whatever you are doing = FAIL!
 
2008-01-01 07:25:02 PM
BMFPitt: dbaggins: There is what planners and investment people tell you, and then there is reality. Take out fees, load, etc. Do not read what your statements from your IRA and 401K/403B managers say your return has been, compute it yourself.

Low-fee index funds = WIN!

Whatever you are doing = FAIL!



That is what my Roth is. You are failing right along with me buddy.

they aren't an option in my 403B plan
 
2008-01-01 07:31:40 PM
In the 40 to 50 year time frame I do not expect market equity to ever manage a consistent 7% return, since the days of our economy growing at about 4-5% are pretty much over. The main growth segment is the service sector, and that has small relative capitalization. market capitalization cannot stay far from economic growth.
 
2008-01-01 07:33:37 PM
dbaggins: That is what my Roth is. You are failing right along with me buddy.

ORLY?
 
2008-01-01 07:35:03 PM
7% a year. I guess I'll use 65K as an average wage for thirty years even though it's way inflated.

You put in 136.5K - your employer, another 136.5K = 273K in your pile. You retire at 65 and get the max = 2185$/Month. Break even at 10 years. Anything after 10= gravy.

not a bad deal- of course you could do better investing on your own but this plan pays for a whole lot of broke-dicks who would otherwise be stealing your shiat to survive.

I still manage to contribute 14%/yr into my 401 so I see the SS as a bonus. If it's their for me, great. If not, I'll be OK. But when you think someone who is in the position where SS is their sole means of income. Think Friskies over a nice bed of rice.
 
2008-01-01 07:35:26 PM
CornFedIowan: yakmans_dad: It's a myth that the Social Security system is threatened with insolvency. It's sound 40 years out. By which time the Boomers will be long dead.

...and some of us will just be getting to retirement age. THAT is the problem.


The 40 year solvency window is pretty close to the theoretical limit. (75 years) If it's any consolation, the 40 year solvency bit is based on economic projections that are very pessimistic. We've always exceeded the past dire projections.
 
2008-01-01 07:37:01 PM
BMFPitt: dbaggins: That is what my Roth is. You are failing right along with me buddy.

ORLY?


that's cute, click the "10y" button, instead of the "5y" button.

notice anything ?

I said my 10 year returns are looking like 5%. So are yours.
 
2008-01-01 07:43:40 PM
SPDR Trust 1 info

http://funds.reuters.com/lipper/retail/reuters/fundoverview.asp?fundno=61133


10 year. 5.8%


live it up.
 
2008-01-01 07:47:14 PM

Good news everyone! We're out of money.

Oh, wait. That's bad news. Now I'm sad.

 
2008-01-01 07:51:45 PM
Suck it, democracy!
 
2008-01-01 07:51:58 PM
pics.livejournal.com

/unavailable for comment.
 
2008-01-01 07:55:57 PM
dbaggins: I'm looking forward to taking these wrinkled senile jokers high paying jobs when they retire. They have overstayed their welcome already.


The reason we boomers CAN hang on to our jobs so long is because the Xers and Yers are mostly a bunch of losers.
 
2008-01-01 08:03:00 PM
Pegasus_CAG: Make the smart financial decisions that so few of your parents and grandparents refused to make.

Also, seatbelts just add extra weight to vehicles! Have I got your logic straight, then?

/ you moran, Pegasus.
 
2008-01-01 08:03:40 PM
dbaggins: I said my 10 year returns are looking like 5%. So are yours.

I wasn't investing >5 years ago. Take it back to 1993 (as far as it goes) and it's returning 8.4% without including the dividends. We can do this all day by cherry picking timeframes, but 40 years from now I think I'm going to beat you.

Not that I'm not expecting some apocalyptic even before then. Don't worry, Kevin Costner will save us.
 
2008-01-01 08:04:30 PM
dball2: 7% a year. I guess I'll use 65K as an average wage for thirty years even though it's way inflated.

You put in 136.5K - your employer, another 136.5K = 273K in your pile. You retire at 65 and get the max = 2185$/Month. Break even at 10 years. Anything after 10= gravy.



a) many people do not get matching. I don't. and I suspect when the out-sourcing party starts ending many executives will start slicing away matching in order to make profit projections and their bonuses. Just a hunch.

b) 7% is probably optimistic.
 
2008-01-01 08:07:48 PM
BMFPitt: dbaggins: I said my 10 year returns are looking like 5%. So are yours.

I wasn't investing >5 years ago. Take it back to 1993 (as far as it goes) and it's returning 8.4% without including the dividends. We can do this all day by cherry picking timeframes, but 40 years from now I think I'm going to beat you.

Not that I'm not expecting some apocalyptic even before then. Don't worry, Kevin Costner will save us.



I said my 10 year was like 5%, you said I was full of fail, then you show me that you are in the same boat, then you say you are going to beat me somehow.

there are very good reasons to expect the coming 40 years are going to be worse than the preceeding 40 years in the market.

we have roughly the same investments, I just don't expect a miracle.
 
2008-01-01 08:12:52 PM
dbaggins: I said my 10 year was like 5%, you said I was full of fail, then you show me that you are in the same boat, then you say you are going to beat me somehow.

You said you had a bunch of funds that were raping you on fees and loads. Then apparently that changed when I noted that you should be in low-fee index funds. I gave you an example of one, and you assumed it to make up 100% of my portfolio.

there are very good reasons to expect the coming 40 years are going to be worse than the preceeding 40 years in the market.

And inflation will likely be somewhat correlated.

we have roughly the same investments, I just don't expect a miracle.

I appreciate your extensive comparison of our holdings. You would think with psychic powers like those, you might be picking some good stocks on occasion.
 
2008-01-01 08:15:43 PM
BMFPitt: we have roughly the same investments, I just don't expect a miracle.

I appreciate your extensive comparison of our holdings. You would think with psychic powers like those, you might be picking some good stocks on occasion.


so, you DO expect a miracle, but I'm the psychic ?

I have no fee indexes in the Roth, and mutuals in the 40x plan. I haven't changed my story at all.
 
2008-01-01 08:18:17 PM
anyways, this is all threadjack.


SS is fine and the Silver Tsunami is media frenzy.
 
2008-01-01 08:37:30 PM
Capricorn Nines, Year of the City 1948. Carrousel Begins.
 
2008-01-01 08:43:47 PM
Just started a 401k in April. (Prior to that had a traditional Pension.)

It's worth a whopping $80 more that the sum total of the cash my employer and I have both paid in between contributions and matching.

Christ, if it wasn't for the matching, I'd have done better in a Savings account. And don't get me started on the Taxes. All that's happened is that I've gone from being covered by a pension to getting less money a paycheck, because now retirement comes off the top.

The might as well have called it a pay cut.
 
2008-01-01 08:51:39 PM
dbaggins Quote 2008-01-01 08:04:30 PM
a) many people do not get matching. I don't. and I suspect when the out-sourcing party starts ending many executives will start slicing away matching in order to make profit projections and their bonuses. Just a hunch.

Err...define "many." Because it's federal law that your employer *has* to match. Either they match, or you pay self employment tax...which means you're paying the whole bit yourself (self matching, yay!).
 
2008-01-01 08:55:10 PM
Gen X here, and so thrilled to listen to the boomers biatch about SS, Capital Gains, Pensions, 401k's, and all those other things I don't have to worry about, all while doing their work.

/Currently a contractor too, I could be unemployed tomorrow w/out even unemployment.
//Cry me a farking river boomers.
 
2008-01-01 08:59:23 PM
F-bear: Good thing the country is in a sound financial position to support the cost.

Bwaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaa..........

Uhhhhhhhh...........

*sob*
 
2008-01-01 09:00:43 PM
darkhorse23: I, for one, welcome the ability to get back the hundreds of thousands that have been forceably taken from my paychecks week after week, decade after decade, that went to support your grandpa, grandma, and their parents before them.

So you are relying on Gen-Y working hard to pay for your retirement?

Good luck with that.....
 
2008-01-01 09:00:59 PM
TommyymmoT: =======================
Inyego: I hope you realize the "asshole" was Lyndon Johnson, who moved SSA funds into the general pool for spending. And anyone who believes in a SSA lock-box or trust fund, should contact me about the ocean front property I have for sale in Kansas
===============
Yeah, I was around for that. I saw him pick up puppies by their ears, and I heard the chants of "HEY HEY LBJ, HOW MANY KIDS DID YOU KILL TODAY?"

The fact still stands, that when Clinton left office, there was plenty of money left over to bail out social security, but that would have interfered with Cheney's stock shares in Halburton going up by 3000%.

If you agree with the way this administration has been running things, do the world a favor, and kill yourself before you reproduce.


You're delusional or willfully ignorant of the facts around SS solvency. Blaming Bush is just stupid and makes you lose any credibility.

The problem with SS is it is built on a pyramid scheme. It can only work as long as the base continues to expand. If something isn't done, there simply will not be enough money coming in to pay for it, even if it is the only expense of the government. It is simple math, but apparently beyond your limited and partisan abilities.
 
2008-01-01 09:09:13 PM
Osama bin Limbaugh: Gen X here, and so thrilled to listen to the boomers biatch about SS, Capital Gains, Pensions, 401k's, and all those other things I don't have to worry about, all while doing their work.

Agreed. Robbing your parents generation blind (who, btw won a farking world war) is not a good way to gain the respect of your children.

/And don't give me that "Do as I say" crap either
//UR gonna get mortgaged
 
2008-01-01 09:12:03 PM
groovyjman21: ///yes, there is in fact solid legal basis for a class action suit against boomers for colluding to loot the treasury

Go man go!

Class action against the boomers.... classic. Awesome.

"Boomers accused of gross negligence towards future generations in terms of resource use, environmental degredation and fiscal policies."
 
2008-01-01 09:20:12 PM
Dave The Slushy: Agreed. Robbing your parents generation blind (who, btw won a farking world war) is not a good way to gain the respect of your children.

Yeah, I dont think the boomers realise how stuffed they are..... They always had it good, they cannot imagine a crisis or a drop in living standards.

But when it does happen, they will find they will be the losers, as they will be old and feeble, and have no support from younger generations who cannot wait to abandon this generation of irresponsible selfish pricks.
 
2008-01-01 09:21:38 PM
BMFPitt: dbaggins: There is what planners and investment people tell you, and then there is reality. Take out fees, load, etc. Do not read what your statements from your IRA and 401K/403B managers say your return has been, compute it yourself.

Low-fee index funds = WIN!

Whatever you are doing = FAIL!


Ding ding ding. Buy the man a cigar.

I also moved about 20% of my IRA over to a precious metals fund about a year ago. It's working out well.

I'm maxing out IRAs using my military retirement check. I recently got a job teaching and plan on hanging up the spurs at 60 (another 15 years). Looking forward to Federal and state retirement checks along with Social Security checks plus IRA disbursements once I hit 67.

My luck, I'll live to 67.0001.
 
2008-01-01 09:26:38 PM
dbaggins: SS is fine and the Silver Tsunami is media frenzy.

SS is not fine and the amount of boomers about to retire is a demographic fact.

How it all plays out is anyones guess, but I dont think it is going to go well for anyone.

Not only do the boomers have no savings, they also have heaps of debt.

My guess is the government will pay out SS money as promised. The way they will do this is by printing more money. People will get their $500 a month, but it will be completely worthless.

I, as a cusp X-Y type, am not going to be working just to maintain the standard of living the boomers have enjoyed until now.

Maybe the boomers will do the responsible thing, and commit mass suicides before they drag the rest of the world down with them.
 
2008-01-01 09:27:02 PM
i2.photobucket.com
 
2008-01-01 09:28:26 PM
larrycot: I also moved about 20% of my IRA over to a precious metals fund about a year ago. It's working out well.

Move the rest dude.....

Even gold coins are a safer investment option right now....
 
2008-01-01 09:34:46 PM
rewind2864:
I tell my niece (20) all the time to start an IRA now... maxing it out ($2,000) every year with only a measly 7% return (worst case), she'll be a millionaire before she can collect social security... if it still exists...

Actually, the maximum IRA (Traditional or Roth) contribution is the lessor of either earned wages or $5,000 ($4,000 for 2007). (If she earned $2,000 in 2007, than the maximum she could contribute is $2,000. If she earned $10,000 in 2007, than she could contribute $4,000.) So, between now and April 15th, she could put $9,000 into her IRA since she is allowed to make 2007 IRA contributions until April 15, 2008.
 
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