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(Lohud.com)   Police officer's three-year-old daughter can eat only one thing -- a doctor-prescribed formula. What does the insurance company do? A) Gleefully refuse coverage, B) Cackle as they swim in their giant pool of fifties and hundreds, or C) Both   (lohud.com) divider line 524
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21073 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Dec 2007 at 4:57 PM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-12-28 06:38:00 PM
Weaver95: You might be surprised to know that there IS a term called 'positive' eugenics. But no matter how you slice it, you're advocating government control over reproduction. And that is something that wll happen over my dead body.

I never, in any way, stated that there should be any sort of "government control over reproduction." Reread what I wrote. I intended it as simply being common sense. Do you keep having kids if there's a good shot that they're going to be seriously farked up? I don't mean to dehumanize such children in any way--they're human beings as much as any of us are. But if it's likely that your kids are going to be able to live a reasonably normal life, is it fair to conceive them in the first place, when there are a hell of a lot of perfectly healthy kids that are suffering because they don't have parents?

But again, I NEVER suggested government control. Only common sense and an abandonment of what seems to me to be a very selfish interest in having children at any cost.

/wowwww, I'm coming off as a complete bastard today.
 
2007-12-28 06:38:16 PM
I'm honestly surprised that we haven't seen people gunning down insurance company executives.
 
2007-12-28 06:39:16 PM
nesler: But if it's likely that your kids are going to be able to live a reasonably normal life

Oops.

"But if it's like that your kids AREN'T going to be able to live a reasonably normal life..."

shiat.
 
2007-12-28 06:39:46 PM
I just went to pick up a prescription a a local pharmacy. The bill came to 174 bucks and the pharmacist asked if i had insurance. I handed him my card and after fiddling on the computer, he told me that the prescription actually cost MORE with my insurance, 185 dollars. For a tube of ointment. Needless to say, I left it behind and will do without it.

The insurance and healthcare industry needs to be destroyed. Make all of them die slow painful deaths, while holding painkillers inches from their noses.
 
2007-12-28 06:40:08 PM
Take a farking break already.

She can't eat, she vomits up everything that she does eat, including the hypoallergenic formula that costs $1200/mo to keep her alive. The insurance company thinks $14,400/yr is excessive when it isn't helping to keep her alive. The parents could get a feeding tube installed, at a lesser cost (and probably covered by the insurance policy).

It isn't the insurance company condemning this child, it's her own goddamn parents.

/Also on the "let her die" bus.
//And Pro insurance companies.
///Also, I have 3 children and I've told my wife that no major operations before the 1st year. Cold hearted, sure, but doing my part to ensure the strength of the human race, because if we keep letting these physically deficient survive to reproduce, there is no good future for us.
 
2007-12-28 06:40:22 PM
Do you think these parents had something in their family medical history that should have let them know they'd have a child like this, or do you think it's some kind of freak of nature?
 
2007-12-28 06:40:35 PM
nesler: I never, in any way, stated that there should be any sort of "government control over reproduction." Reread what I wrote. I intended it as simply being common sense. Do you keep having kids if there's a good shot that they're going to be seriously farked up? I don't mean to dehumanize such children in any way--they're human beings as much as any of us are. But if it's likely that your kids are going to be able to live a reasonably normal life, is it fair to conceive them in the first place, when there are a hell of a lot of perfectly healthy kids that are suffering because they don't have parents?

But again, I NEVER suggested government control. Only common sense and an abandonment of what seems to me to be a very selfish interest in having children at any cost.

/wowwww, I'm coming off as a complete bastard today.


And when people start ignoring those carefully crafted guidelines you so helpfully provided - what then? How will you enforce your genetic hygene program?
 
2007-12-28 06:40:35 PM
Okay, at what point do we just start mobbing the insurance companies and dragging out the CEO's naked onto the streets. wouldn't take before insurance companies would start revaluating thier business practices.

Just Sayin'
 
2007-12-28 06:41:07 PM
onomatopoeon: danielsangeo: fanbladesaresharp: onomatopoeon:
So who's to say when (and I do believe in a "when") the drugs to treat her condition will be developed? Should we let her die today, if possible? Would you like to be the one to personally turn off the tap?

/A little compassion
//goes a long
///farkin' way

Worked so well for Terri Shiavo.

And the treatment for a mostly-liquefied brain is...?

Still compassion, in all its forms.


It's not compassionate to allow someone to essentially suffer so that they may live. Terri Schiavo may have been technically alive, but she wasn't living. The person known as Terri died a long time ago; the body just continued living.
 
2007-12-28 06:41:07 PM
Bathia_Mapes: c.j.: Not to be off subject but I just read posting rules and well they are full of fail.

Don't repost deleted content/links.
Don't post NSFW (Not Safe For Work) images or unlabeled NSFW links.
Don't post graphic images or links to graphic content.
Don't post repetitively.
Don't threadjack.
Don't encourage others to perform illegal acts.
Don't post hate speech.
Don't post broken images/links.
Don't post private/contact information no matter how easily obtained.
Don't troll/harass other Farkers.
Don't troll/harass Fark or its maintainers.
Don't discuss bans in the threads.
Don't try to make the thread discussions all about you -aka Attention Whoring.
Don't post TotalFark content/links on regular Fark.
Don't attempt to hack, flood, DoS, DDoS, or otherwise compromise Fark.
Don't abuse the submission queue.

Which one of these do I not see everyday.

/none

True, many of these infractions appear on a daily basis at fark. However, I get the impression that admins or mods (whomever makes the decision) tend to go after those farkers who make a practice of flouting the posting guidelines on a regular basis. I may be incorrect in my assumption, but that the impression I get.


You must be new. Welcome to Fark. Mocking the mods and admins will get their attention rather quickly. You should try out TF if you think what gets greenlit is a lot to filter through.
 
2007-12-28 06:41:23 PM
onomatopoeon: Still compassion, in all its forms.

And if the person can't even understand the concept of compassion..? Jesus Christ, she spent the last 15 years of her life bedridden and unable to do ANYTHING. She couldn't walk, she couldn't see, she couldn't THINK.

nesler: "But if it's like that your kids

God damn it.
 
2007-12-28 06:41:55 PM
prickle27: Okay, at what point do we just start mobbing the insurance companies and dragging out the CEO's naked onto the streets. wouldn't take before insurance companies would start revaluating thier business practices.

Just Sayin'


Luckily for the CEO types, they're only picking on sick people. They can't fight back very well. And basically all they have to do is run out the clock on 'em.
 
2007-12-28 06:42:24 PM
Maybe it's been posted here and I just didn't see it, but my question is: Why the hell does it cost $250 for a 14 oz can of nutritional powder? I could eat steak and lobster for breakfast, lunch and dinner every day and it would still not cost that much.

I would like to know how they justify that price.
 
2007-12-28 06:43:09 PM
Beavis_Christ: every society is judged by how it treats it's least fortunate. if the responses on this thread are any indication of how most of America thinks, god help us all.

I say we kill Kyosuke, sell his/her organs on the black market, and use that money to buy that kid her formula.

/I ALSO stand by my opinion...


Hey, if there was a way to CURE the kid, I'm all for it. But if not, then my condition would be that the kid gets the formula but she has to be sterilized. Certain things like this which are DNA based diseases will be passed to HER kids repeating the cycle. Allowing it just weakens the gene pool.

Let the kid grow up, sterilize her and her mother (and her sister if it turns out she has it too), and possibly her father.
 
2007-12-28 06:43:13 PM
Rational Exuberance
rewind2846: Their first priority (as with all business) is to their policyholders (customers), not their stockholders (greedy ratbastard leeches)...

I will not be investing any money into your business. Oops, guess that means you can't actually have a business, since you have no capital.

Businesses have a fiduciary responsibility to investors, not customers.


Notice that I said FIRST PRIORITY, not only priority. Business these days have it ass-backwards, and so do you, it seems.

Customers first, employees second, stockholders last.

used to work like this-
You take care of your customers, treat them like people, they buy more shiat.
Your employees can get paid and do better work. Quality goes up.
Customers buy more of your shiat, and you can charge them more for it.
Stockholders get paid more out of the increased profits from you selling more shiat and more expensive shiat.
Cycle continues.

instead-
Don't give a rats ass about your customers. (start calling them 'consumers' for example)
Customers see reduced quality and service. You sell less shiat.
Greedy stockholders still want money.
Cut employees, reduce quality and customer service further to boost profits.
Employees pissed and quit, customers see even more reduced quality and buy less of your shiat.
Greedy stockholders still want money.
Cut employees, reduce quality and customer service further to boost profits.
Cycle continues.

Which business will stay in business longer?
 
2007-12-28 06:43:13 PM
dcbrian: mongbiohazard: Euthanization at infancy is far more merciful and humane.

See below.



A. You still haven't explained how what I've written was wrong. I'm doubting that you can. Please do... Here's your chance... Go!

B. That rant was pathetic... Uncaring about a 3 year old's suffering? If you read what I wrote - that's actually my point. It's easy to say that it's "compassionate" to keep this child alive through any means as long as possible, but in this extreme circumstance it's absolutely false. Intentionally condemming someone to a lifetime of suffering - instead of humanely euthanizing them in infancy - is somehow more compassionate?

C. Do you think it's OK to torture people? If not, then why would you be in favor of intentionally subjecting this poor little girl to an entire lifetime of agony? I'm not OK with either. It comes down to REAL compassion vs. your fake compassion in words only, not deeds.

D. Antisocial? How does that asshat know how I live? I love all these dumbfarks who make assumptions about how others live their lives, like their stunning insight can tell them over the power of teh internets! I've been called a redneck and a Christian amongst other things equally off the mark by plenty of assumptive farkholes on Fark. It never ceases to amuse me... (an athiest Jew from NJ with plenty of good friends that I'm going to see at a very nice party about an hour from now - suck it Bender)
 
2007-12-28 06:43:26 PM
idrow: Maybe it's been posted here and I just didn't see it, but my question is: Why the hell does it cost $250 for a 14 oz can of nutritional powder? I could eat steak and lobster for breakfast, lunch and dinner every day and it would still not cost that much.

I would like to know how they justify that price.


Why does heart surgery cost so much? I mean, it's just a couple of valves, right? You can get those from the hardware shop for .50 cents!
 
2007-12-28 06:43:30 PM
goodwynn: I just went to pick up a prescription a a local pharmacy. The bill came to 174 bucks and the pharmacist asked if i had insurance. I handed him my card and after fiddling on the computer, he told me that the prescription actually cost MORE with my insurance, 185 dollars. For a tube of ointment. Needless to say, I left it behind and will do without it.

The insurance and healthcare industry needs to be destroyed. Make all of them die slow painful deaths, while holding painkillers inches from their noses.


I'm sorry, and it's completely off topic, but what kind of ointment costs 185 dollars? Dude!
 
2007-12-28 06:44:02 PM
Um... I bet they don't have this problem in Mali.
 
2007-12-28 06:45:00 PM
Weaver95: And when people start ignoring those carefully crafted guidelines you so helpfully provided - what then? How will you enforce your genetic hygene program?

There's no enforcement there. People have a right to be stupid and selfish...and it's a right that is exercised by a hell of a lot of people.

If the problems that are being passed along are severe enough, they'll eventually enforce those "carefully crafted guidelines" on their own...but there will be a lot more suffering and sadness involved. That's the part I would like to avoid...having to see the kids suffer and die. If they're not conceived, then there is no suffering. But if people feel utterly compelled to bring them into the world, that's their right. It's stupid, it's selfish, but they have a right to reproduce as they please.
 
2007-12-28 06:45:16 PM
Three years old and 40 pounds? I must be doing something wrong, because my 4 1/2-year-old only weighs about 35 pounds (please don't call CPS).

Anyhow, stories like this really make me count my blessings. Life could always be so much worse.
 
2007-12-28 06:46:03 PM
Well, read TFA

Kid needs a Button.

That's a feeding tube placed with aid of an endoscope.

Overnight in the hospital and she can then concentrate on health, not the cosmetics of not having a tube

I know, I resisted a tube for my son, afterwards, I realized I was being stupid.

The kid needs to come first. Tubes are easy.
 
2007-12-28 06:46:24 PM
Weaver95: idrow: Maybe it's been posted here and I just didn't see it, but my question is: Why the hell does it cost $250 for a 14 oz can of nutritional powder? I could eat steak and lobster for breakfast, lunch and dinner every day and it would still not cost that much.

I would like to know how they justify that price.

Why does heart surgery cost so much? I mean, it's just a couple of valves, right? You can get those from the hardware shop for .50 cents!


My bad. I didn't realize that a team of of heart surgeons spent 12 hours making each can.
 
2007-12-28 06:47:04 PM
idrow: Weaver95: idrow: Maybe it's been posted here and I just didn't see it, but my question is: Why the hell does it cost $250 for a 14 oz can of nutritional powder? I could eat steak and lobster for breakfast, lunch and dinner every day and it would still not cost that much.

I would like to know how they justify that price.

Why does heart surgery cost so much? I mean, it's just a couple of valves, right? You can get those from the hardware shop for .50 cents!

My bad. I didn't realize that a team of of heart surgeons spent 12 hours making each can.


not far off the truth, actually. I'd explain it to you, but I don't want to hurt your brain.
 
2007-12-28 06:47:46 PM
buckler: So, if the insurance company is classifying this as a "food supplement", I'm sure they'd be happy to identify what other foods it's supplementing. Right?

The profit motive needs to be removed from the healthcare industry.


The decision was made by an administrator at a public employee's union. There was no profit motive involved. Even governments want to keep costs down, you know.
 
2007-12-28 06:48:54 PM
rewind2846: Rational Exuberance
rewind2846: Their first priority (as with all business) is to their policyholders (customers), not their stockholders (greedy ratbastard leeches)...

I will not be investing any money into your business. Oops, guess that means you can't actually have a business, since you have no capital.

Businesses have a fiduciary responsibility to investors, not customers.

Notice that I said FIRST PRIORITY, not only priority. Business these days have it ass-backwards, and so do you, it seems.

Customers first, employees second, stockholders last.

used to work like this-
You take care of your customers, treat them like people, they buy more shiat.
Your employees can get paid and do better work. Quality goes up.
Customers buy more of your shiat, and you can charge them more for it.
Stockholders get paid more out of the increased profits from you selling more shiat and more expensive shiat.
Cycle continues.

instead-
Don't give a rats ass about your customers. (start calling them 'consumers' for example)
Customers see reduced quality and service. You sell less shiat.
Greedy stockholders still want money.
Cut employees, reduce quality and customer service further to boost profits.
Employees pissed and quit, customers see even more reduced quality and buy less of your shiat.
Greedy stockholders still want money.
Cut employees, reduce quality and customer service further to boost profits.
Cycle continues.

Which business will stay in business longer?


Problem is that it doesn't work that way. Else all those mom-and-pops who treated their customers like people wouldn't have been put out of business by Wal-Mart. Customers don't really show a whole hell of a lot of loyalty if they are price sensitive. In more premium offerings, where price is less important, then customers are treated better.

Corporate managers have too much power as it is - shareholders need to take back control to make the business run better. Notice everyone biatches about CEO's (managers), when they are really just the hired help. Owners need to get control back. {Cue Gordon Gekko speech}
 
2007-12-28 06:50:06 PM
Weaver95: Kome: /damnit, couldn't type that with a straight face...
//that was a funny ass thread, I wish I could've been a part of it

I don't think i've seen that guy since he self-pwned himself.


I've been aruging with him today and last night. So have a lot of us. He's just moved to Ron Paul and Mike Huckabee threads. Heck, had a nice lil back-n-forth with him a little bit ago in a Ron Paul + evolution thread. It was/is... glorious, and there's still a chance he'll come back later. He actually said, and I quote "that's not evolution, that's natural selection." He's... he's something. Thread 3294123, if you're interested.
 
2007-12-28 06:51:04 PM
Kome: Weaver95: Kome: /damnit, couldn't type that with a straight face...
//that was a funny ass thread, I wish I could've been a part of it

I don't think i've seen that guy since he self-pwned himself.

I've been aruging with him today and last night. So have a lot of us. He's just moved to Ron Paul and Mike Huckabee threads. Heck, had a nice lil back-n-forth with him a little bit ago in a Ron Paul + evolution thread. It was/is... glorious, and there's still a chance he'll come back later. He actually said, and I quote "that's not evolution, that's natural selection." He's... he's something. Thread 3294123, if you're interested.


I liked it when I quoted Ayn Rand and Thomas Jefferson and got caled a socialist for doing so.
 
2007-12-28 06:51:59 PM
idrow: Weaver95: idrow: Maybe it's been posted here and I just didn't see it, but my question is: Why the hell does it cost $250 for a 14 oz can of nutritional powder? I could eat steak and lobster for breakfast, lunch and dinner every day and it would still not cost that much.

I would like to know how they justify that price.

Why does heart surgery cost so much? I mean, it's just a couple of valves, right? You can get those from the hardware shop for .50 cents!

My bad. I didn't realize that a team of of heart surgeons spent 12 hours making each can.



The research and science that allowed these treatments to be possible did not materialize out of thin air. Your not really paying so much for the product itself, but the R & D that made it possible to effectively treat this illness.
 
2007-12-28 06:52:02 PM
SusanIvanova: The decision was made by an administrator at a public employee's union. There was no profit motive involved. Even governments want to keep costs down, you know.

So because a government offical decided to condemn this child to death by starvation, it's ok?
 
2007-12-28 06:52:58 PM
Weaver95: SusanIvanova: The decision was made by an administrator at a public employee's union. There was no profit motive involved. Even governments want to keep costs down, you know.

So because a government offical decided to condemn this child to death by starvation, it's ok?


Somewhere along the line the idea emerged that "profit" was the problem here. It's not. The profit motive is the solution to this problem, not the cause of it.
 
2007-12-28 06:54:03 PM
Weaver95: I liked it when I quoted Ayn Rand and Thomas Jefferson and got caled a socialist for doing so.

It's simply amazing some of the trolls Fark has.
 
2007-12-28 06:54:32 PM
nesler: onomatopoeon: Still compassion, in all its forms.

And if the person can't even understand the concept of compassion..? Jesus Christ, she spent the last 15 years of her life bedridden and unable to do ANYTHING. She couldn't walk, she couldn't see, she couldn't THINK.

nesler: "But if it's like that your kids

God damn it.


I would be driven to do everything possible to keep my daughter alive. It's not always just about compassion for the patient; and before anyone gets off on a mercy-killing rant, it's not like Ms. Shiavo was in any pain.
 
2007-12-28 06:54:36 PM
http://www.taclonex.com/
 
2007-12-28 06:55:17 PM
Weaver95: So because a government offical decided to condemn this child to death by starvation, it's ok?

Hell no, it's not ok, that's my point. Heartless decisions made by a faceless entity that doesn't care about you are just as likely to be made by a faceless government as they are by a faceless corporation.
 
2007-12-28 06:55:56 PM
Actually the food is not medicine.. Insulin IS a med. However, diabetic supplies (since they mentioned it) are not covered.. like testing strips at over $1 each strip and the needles... so they can just go cry someone a river.
 
2007-12-28 06:55:56 PM
Rational Exuberance: Weaver95: SusanIvanova: The decision was made by an administrator at a public employee's union. There was no profit motive involved. Even governments want to keep costs down, you know.

So because a government offical decided to condemn this child to death by starvation, it's ok?

Somewhere along the line the idea emerged that "profit" was the problem here. It's not. The profit motive is the solution to this problem, not the cause of it.


i'm not entirely sure turning over our health care decisions to a rapacious and profit greedy insurance industry is such a good idea.

I'd like to see a balance. I'd like to see a shift in focus away from profits and ideology. At no point in any of these 'debates' have any of us stopped and considered the health care system from the perspective of the sick person.
 
2007-12-28 06:56:27 PM
danielsangeo: fanbladesaresharp: onomatopoeon:
So who's to say when (and I do believe in a "when") the drugs to treat her condition will be developed? Should we let her die today, if possible? Would you like to be the one to personally turn off the tap?

/A little compassion
//goes a long
///farkin' way

Worked so well for Terri Shiavo.

And the treatment for a mostly-liquefied brain is...?


None.
 
2007-12-28 06:56:49 PM
Kome: Weaver95: I liked it when I quoted Ayn Rand and Thomas Jefferson and got caled a socialist for doing so.

It's simply amazing some of the trolls Fark has.


Expect it to get worse as we get closer to the 2008 elections.
 
2007-12-28 06:58:04 PM
onomatopoeon: nesler: onomatopoeon: Still compassion, in all its forms.

And if the person can't even understand the concept of compassion..? Jesus Christ, she spent the last 15 years of her life bedridden and unable to do ANYTHING. She couldn't walk, she couldn't see, she couldn't THINK.

nesler: "But if it's like that your kids

God damn it.

I would be driven to do everything possible to keep my daughter alive.


Even if there's no chance of her ever being a functional human being again?

It's not always just about compassion for the patient; and before anyone gets off on a mercy-killing rant, it's not like Ms. Shiavo was in any pain.

Mrs.
Schiavo was not in pain, that's true. She didn't really feel much of anything at all. Mrs. Schiavo's situation and this 3-year-old is are TOTALLY different situations...one is a functioning member of society, and the other wasn't. Mrs. Schiavo's "guardian" (as it were) had final say on the matter.
 
2007-12-28 06:58:10 PM
fanbladesaresharp: danielsangeo: fanbladesaresharp: onomatopoeon:
So who's to say when (and I do believe in a "when") the drugs to treat her condition will be developed? Should we let her die today, if possible? Would you like to be the one to personally turn off the tap?

/A little compassion
//goes a long
///farkin' way

Worked so well for Terri Shiavo.

And the treatment for a mostly-liquefied brain is...?

None.


QFT
 
2007-12-28 06:58:11 PM
othan1: From what I've heard, UK free health is the best thing ever (hyperbole, I'm sure, but must be some truth). Why would you need supplemental insurance?

Serious question; not snark.


Basically the service is better, nicer rooms, consultants falling over themselves for their fees, no waiting lists for some non emergency operations. That's about it I reckon. Sorry for the delay btw, 5 kids to feed.
 
2007-12-28 06:59:08 PM
Weaver95: Kome: Weaver95: I liked it when I quoted Ayn Rand and Thomas Jefferson and got caled a socialist for doing so.

It's simply amazing some of the trolls Fark has.

Expect it to get worse as we get closer to the 2008 elections.


Oh trust me, at the end of October, I'll be stocking up on popcorn and telling my job I'll be taking a few days off.
 
2007-12-28 06:59:28 PM
altoids85: idrow: Weaver95: idrow: Maybe it's been posted here and I just didn't see it, but my question is: Why the hell does it cost $250 for a 14 oz can of nutritional powder? I could eat steak and lobster for breakfast, lunch and dinner every day and it would still not cost that much.

I would like to know how they justify that price.

Why does heart surgery cost so much? I mean, it's just a couple of valves, right? You can get those from the hardware shop for .50 cents!

My bad. I didn't realize that a team of of heart surgeons spent 12 hours making each can.


The research and science that allowed these treatments to be possible did not materialize out of thin air. Your not really paying so much for the product itself, but the R & D that made it possible to effectively treat this illness.


Well in this case, I shouldn't say treat the illness but enable someone with the disease to continue living.
 
2007-12-28 06:59:41 PM
mongbiohazard: You still haven't explained how what I've written was wrong. I'm doubting that you can. Please do... Here's your chance... Go!

Main Entry: mer·cy
- compassionate treatment of those in distress
Main Entry: hu·mane
- marked by compassion, sympathy, or consideration for humans or animals
Main Entry: com·pas·sion
- sympathetic consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it


Kinda hard to show compassion to someone you just murdered because you value the profits of a company over the life of a person.
 
2007-12-28 07:00:32 PM
I didn't read all the posts, so maybe someone has already answered my question, but...to all the "she should just die" folks, how?

Should her parents knife her while she's asleep? Feed her stuff she's allergic to until her esophagus ruptures? Let her starve to death? Abandon her in the wilderness somewhere?

Just curious as to what your plan might be.
 
2007-12-28 07:01:46 PM
Kome: Weaver95: Kome: Weaver95: I liked it when I quoted Ayn Rand and Thomas Jefferson and got caled a socialist for doing so.

It's simply amazing some of the trolls Fark has.

Expect it to get worse as we get closer to the 2008 elections.

Oh trust me, at the end of October, I'll be stocking up on popcorn and telling my job I'll be taking a few days off.


Save it for election night. TRUST me on this one. Last presidential election, fark almost had a meltdown that night. I think the 2008 election night is going to be the worst stress test these servers have ever had.
 
2007-12-28 07:02:23 PM
Weaver95: Rational Exuberance: Weaver95: SusanIvanova: The decision was made by an administrator at a public employee's union. There was no profit motive involved. Even governments want to keep costs down, you know.

So because a government offical decided to condemn this child to death by starvation, it's ok?

Somewhere along the line the idea emerged that "profit" was the problem here. It's not. The profit motive is the solution to this problem, not the cause of it.

i'm not entirely sure turning over our health care decisions to a rapacious and profit greedy insurance industry is such a good idea.

I'd like to see a balance. I'd like to see a shift in focus away from profits and ideology. At no point in any of these 'debates' have any of us stopped and considered the health care system from the perspective of the sick person.


Focus on results, not intentions. The profit motive serves as a signalling system - it tells people where money should be invested, and in the most efficient way possible. Our system sucks, no doubt about it, but removing profit from it isn't the solution. A benevolent government not focusing on profit may seem to be better because they ostensibly care about us, but the results don't seem to bear that out in other government programs.

And it's not just that we turned it over to the insurance industry - we crippled the consumer at the same time. That's where the big screwup happened. You can't realistically buy private insurance (it's tax disadvantaged), there's no price transparency which means you can't really choose. And to top it all off you don't even get to see where your money is going - all the payments happen on the back end. Removing the customer from the health care process was possibly the worst thing we could have done - it disempowered up and made us dependant.
 
2007-12-28 07:02:24 PM
Weaver95: So because a government offical decided to condemn this child to death by starvation, it's ok?

The insurance company will cover the feeding tube that the family is rejecting due to cosmetic issues. The family wants to take the most expensive route possible...that is not equivalent to the insurance company condemning the child to starvation.

onomatopoeon: and before anyone gets off on a mercy-killing rant, it's not like Ms. Shiavo was in any pain.

Actually, there was evidence that she sensitive to pain. Her conscious perception of it? That's a matter up for debate. But Christ, what she was doing, that wasn't living. Why continue that? Why? Nothing would ever change...ever. Why have her spend decades in bed, on a feeding tube, until she died?
 
2007-12-28 07:02:25 PM
I think most of us can agree that debug is a d-bag, and that we should just ignore him and hopefully he'll go away. There's a few in every thread who tout this neo-nazi bullshiat (whether they believe it or they're just flamming). All of you people arguing against him are just tiring yourselves out. Any decent human on this planet would not advocate for this little girl's death.

/sad story, but publicity like this usually merits a response
//I bet the insurance company will change its mind in the next few days, or else some other company will pick up the tab
///humans aren't all asshats.....close though
 
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