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(IHT)   Bush pushing "abstinence-only" programs at the expense of family planning & contraceptives   (iht.com) divider line 154
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1010 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Aug 2001 at 8:28 AM (13 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2001-08-01 08:37:26 AM
O-K..who has he been talking to? The pope?
Now I think of it...he has recently, hasn't he?
 
2001-08-01 08:39:02 AM
Well, if you can't get condoms at school or at a clinic you could always go to Wendys...
 
2001-08-01 08:47:21 AM
Abstinence is great in theory, pretty impossible in practice without very good sexual education. And uh, what is his opinion on teenage pregnancy and unmarried mothers again?
 
2001-08-01 09:04:24 AM
I cannot wait until one of his daughters gets pregnant and has an abortion.
 
MJC
2001-08-01 09:09:32 AM
Yeah, let's have MORE welfare babies
 
2001-08-01 09:19:52 AM
My thoughts exactly MJC...

But I guess it works out pretty well for Bush, if you won't let them have birth control, and they have more kids (which I'm not saying would be attributable to lack of BC alone by any means), then they might need help, which could come from the faith-based organizations that he wants to pump money too....

By the same token, if people stop using condoms, then your infection rates go up ("it's those damned gays"), as do your teen pregnancy rates ("Look how our morals are declining!"). Yeah, we finally get both of these numbers down to the lowest levels in years, so let's throw away the tools that helped us get there...

Man, I just wonder if Jenna practices abstinence.

3Horn
 
2001-08-01 09:25:30 AM
3horn,
I wouldn't mind helping her getting pregnant (she looks good enough and I am single at the moment), but that is as far as I'll go. As for children born out of wedlock, I have a very simple rule: Whoever gets the baby can have it.
 
2001-08-01 09:27:45 AM
This one is also . Hasn't anyone been paying attention?
 
2001-08-01 09:31:34 AM
Oh yes, the teens of America are going to stop having sex because President Bush says so. Right.
 
2001-08-01 09:31:35 AM
proposed eliminating contraceptive coverage for federal workers

??? Does that mean what I think it does? As much as I disagree with the rest of this garbage, I do think Orrin Hatch should buy his own damn condoms...
 
2001-08-01 09:36:03 AM
sheesh... good thing we have separation of church and state...

is there anyone here foolish enough to think this is anything but forced ideological beleifs? redirecting funding to christian groups... establishing a fetus as a proteced person... what a load of crap.
 
2001-08-01 09:36:56 AM
Yeah Mojo, ya wanna take bets on whether or not they let them keep they're coverage for Viagra?

3Horn
 
2001-08-01 09:45:35 AM
bah!

let the STD's rise -- the more people dead the better.

but babies being born? No no no.
 
2001-08-01 09:46:54 AM
Everytime I hear anything about your new prez I get more and more worried.......

mibbees aye, mibbees naw!!!
 
2001-08-01 09:47:36 AM
Heh. Yeah. First you saturate entertainment and advertising with sex, you make it out to be pivotal in the "pursuit of happiness", then you tell kids not to do it. (yea - I'm mixing my "you"s. Not the same group of people, I know.)

Now give me one good reason to tell teenagers not to fark around.

I could think of lots against drugs (most of which I wouldn't agree with, but they would at least make sense) - but sex?

Hey - I've got an idea. Start a "War on Sex". Ya know, with Dubya's drug record (OK, refusal to answer concrete questions. Same farking thing), he would be the _ideal_ spokesperson. Or has he really only had sex twice in his life? No, wait - ONCE - they're twins. Yay.

("Son, you're just not ready" - "But dad - do I not also have a dick? Do I not ejaculate? Do I not have nocturnal emissions?")
 
2001-08-01 09:47:40 AM
Bringing abstinence more into the spotlight hardly means taking everything else out of it, but it beats dumbass ideas like teaching first graders how to put a condom on a banana, which symbolizes the approach that so many brain-dead hippies have been using. These clowns shove ideas into kids heads that they are far too young to handle, then when the kids turn into sex machines, they scream for more money to fix the problem they created and call those who want to put the brakes on and let children be children a little longer "religious zealots" when it's far more a matter of common sense, not religion.

"Planned Infanticide" was basically a government agency for 8 years, encouraging women 6 months pregnant and more to think of a child as a blob of marmalade to be extracted and refusing to tell them the facts. To hear most of these bittches talk, a child isn't a person until the obstetrician pulls him or her out, 9 months after conception. Anytime before that and it's open season on bumping the kid off if his or her presence is deemed "inconvenient". The biggest reason they don't like abstinence is that it's bad for their multi-million dollar business of running babies through their abortion mills and calling it "women's health". That's what they did to my older sister, who still has nightmares about what she was deceived into doing. If she had been given all the facts about her child at 6 months (appearance, brain activity, ability to feel pain, etc) she wouldn't have done it. Now babies are surviving when born preemie at that age, for God's sake. But they still won't be "people" for another 3 months, right?
 
2001-08-01 09:52:03 AM
All you farking chowder heads who voted for this idiot can only thank yourself for this crap. I guess not too many people remember when Reagen and his christian right wing cronies(Fallwell,Robertson,etc..) kept trying this crap over and over again. Next thing you know, Ed Meese will have another pornography commission.
 
2001-08-01 09:54:31 AM
"with the money often going to evangelical Christian groups."

And we ALL know how evangelical christians are perfect examples of sexual control.

Besides there's something not exactly right, spending money to outfit people with condoms, when they can't even buy food.
'No food? Tough shiat if welfare can't cover it, but here's a truckload of condoms, try not to have anymore kids please. Or if you're working the corner, try remembering where those came from and pay your taxes, okay? Have a nice day!'
 
2001-08-01 09:55:08 AM
Well freddy freedom,
what do you suggest to stop the problem of unwanted pregnancies? Hmmm, Just Say No?
 
2001-08-01 09:58:24 AM
FreddyFreedom - your sister. You say she wouldn't have had an abortion. But would she not have had sex?
I would think that the condom-on-banana might appear silly, and might overtax some kids, but it beats letting them find out for themselves, and just trying to bring across the idea that "oooh sex - it's a nono. Just don't do it, OK?". As far as I know, there are hardly any boys who don't find out for themselves that rubbing their weener is the the best fun they can have, but having it rubbed by someone else is _even better_ . (I'll not attempt to speak for the girls).

The development of society is a one-way street, and the west has reached a secular age. There's no way back for a large majority of society to the age of "don't have sex before marriage, because God won't like it".
 
2001-08-01 09:59:45 AM
Fer cying out loud, just calm down. While I don't think that teaching abstinenence is neccesarily a bad thing, I do think you have to teach common sense to go along with it. Teach the child to stand on the strength of their convictions first and how to make their choices based on what's best for them. Teach them self worth and that there are consequences to their actions and that they are responsible for their actions. BUT also teach them how to protect themselves from STDs and teach them about birth control. Knowledge is power. Give them all the options and info and let them make their own choices. Just handing them a condom or saying don't have sex won't solve the problem at all.
 
2001-08-01 10:01:42 AM
oh god. not another fark abortion debate. I think both sides, the die hard pro-lifers and the die hard pro-choicers, are both being idiots. Just have sex ed required through some type of health class, sell condoms at a local store (no, I don't want my tax dollars to be spent on letting some kids having sex) and let abortion be available and don't pressure into it. Hell it's legal but not mandatory. If you oppose abortion, then don't ever get one. You can't impose your own morals on somebody else. The two sides have been blown so out of proportion that it has become such a stupid debate.
 
2001-08-01 10:08:36 AM
I don't know what kind of farked up school you went to, but I wasn't taught about sexual reproduction until 8th grade (well, fully that is. they introduced the basics of it in the 6th grade). And I also would like to know what kind of school teaches you how to put condoms on bananas (you know, like in the movies. and since it was in the movies, it has to be true, right?). If schools are doing either of the things you mentioned, then Bush's plan isn't the answer. The real answer would be to reform our current system.

Is a fetus alive? Yes. Is it thinking? Only in its later development. Until then, its cells and nothing more. It has the potential to think, and that is what all this "right for life" is about. Its not about killing something that is thinking: its about killing something that has the potential to. I'm not saying the Fetus doesn't think inside the womb (since it does think later in its development). People should have the right to choose. Of course people say that a fetus doesn't want to be killed: but it doesn't have desires or goals. It, in most cases, has yet to develope a conscience. I think there should be a ban on aborting a fetus once it reaches the thinking point. Up until then, it is quite frankly, a vegatable with the potential to have a human conscienceness.

I know I pissed off a lot of people, but my opinions are based on research, not on what a 3,000 year old book says - or some Dogma enshrouded figure exclaims.
 
Rei
2001-08-01 10:13:41 AM
FreddyFreedom:

First off, that's a straw man. Sex ed is usually in 6th or 7th grade. This "approach that brain dead hippies are using" is the reason for the dropping teen pregnancy ratings and std levels in the western world (or haven't you noticed?). The scandinavian nations are amongst the best in the world for having low levels of unwanted pregnancies and STDs - they're also amongst the strongest promoters of sex education and the use of contraceptives and protection.

Are you aware of the likelyhood of pregnancy in a year of unprotected sex? Its about 80%. The rythem method and the withdrawl method, the two "religous" methods, lower that to 50-60%. With proper condom usage, that level is about 0.5%. Properly (regularly) used combined bc pills are about 1%. Seriously, though, if you honestly think that having condoms available will increase sex 100fold from what it is naturally, you're a complete and total loon ;)

Your view of abortion is completely inaccurate, as well. Most abortions are done shortly after the woman realizes she's pregnant, not 6 months down the road. "6 months down the road" generally only occurs if there is a health risk to the woman, and is not something that Planned Parenthood is designed to deal with. If your sister was actually "talked into" having an abortion, after 6 months, better watch her, she'll be in a cult soon if she's that influencable. And almost noone is saying "as soon as a baby is born, they're a person, and before then, they're not". This "magical, instant change" is what anti-abortionists believe. People with reason realize that nothing in this world is binary except for mental concepts.

Are you aware of what banning abortion would do? mm? I have a friend who was raped when she was 13. Knife to her throat. Couldn't tell her parents. Found out she was pregnant. Practically starved herself, for over 3 months until she miscarried. Because it took so long, she had to find a way to get to a hospital that wasn't local so they could bring her into labor; she had a friend drive her to Regina. Her parents never found out. She was clincally depressed during that time. Not that sort of "I'm going to try and kill myself for attention" depression. She was a shell of a human being.

This is not an issue you touch.

Go back in your cave now.

-= rei =-
 
2001-08-01 10:14:23 AM
Bush the Idiot president shows off his pee sized brain again.

I would be ashamed if I would have voted for him..
You SHOULD BE TO : P..

hehe jk, Everyone makes mistakes...

But he is such a nit-wit
 
2001-08-01 10:15:43 AM
"Hell it's legal but not mandatory. If you oppose abortion, then don't ever get one. You can't impose your own morals on somebody else. "

Won't happen until people start using their brains a little more. People fling morals around these days, to win some personal fight. That is why I believe morals as they currently stand, do more bad than good in most cases.
 
2001-08-01 10:21:10 AM
Won't happen until people start using their brains a little more. People fling morals around these days, to win some personal fight. That is why I believe morals as they currently stand, do more bad than good in most cases.

Well-said, Nazzerov.

And Rei brought up the "rhythm method".

Q: What do you call a couple that uses the Rhythm Method?
A: Parents
 
2001-08-01 10:30:45 AM
Nothing stupid about having higher goals than just: "oh, you can't stop itform happening, so just cover it with a rubber when you do"... I went to a public school, and our sex ed program was quite heavy pushing the abstinence rather than contraception... (Nothing religious or "Christian" about it either).... I doubt it stopped many people from actually going out and having sex, but that doesn't mean the message they were giving was wrong... Still, condoms for the masses probably do avoid more headaches than they cause.
 
2001-08-01 10:37:51 AM
I had a very good friend in high school that got pregnant by a 27 year old guy(thats another issue), She was 16, she had an abortion, she told no one but me. If she told her parents, they would kick her out of the house, if she had the baby she would not have finished high school, the guy would not marry her or provide for the baby. Don't give me that crap about going after the father or adoption or shelters or social services. Reality is a biatch. So I spent a long time helping her deal with her grief and pain. All you farkers with an opinion or a belief with no experience with this should just close your fat mouths on what other people should do or think. If you have been in a position where you have had to choose, then I wish you the best of luck and I hope you have a non-judgemental person you can talk to.
And yes, I have had this decision to make in my personal life too, I chose to work a second job to make enough money to afford another child. Because I was able to, some people don't have a first job.
 
2001-08-01 10:48:21 AM
Rei: I'm not going to debate the abortion issue, and I haven't ever met FreddyFreedom's sister but your statement, "If your sister was actually "talked into" having an abortion, after 6 months, better watch her, she'll be in a cult soon if she's that influencable." I found very closed-minded and insulting to his sister.

It's not a matter of being "that influencable"... Also, no one is slighting your friend that got raped and all that she went through... I certainly won't... It's awful what happened... But let me tell you about one of my friends for a different sake of example...

One of my best friends is a single mother of 3. And, yup, you guessed it, 3 different fathers. Just for the record, she is neither is $lut, whore, or someone who sleeps around randomly. Each time she was prepared to marry the father... (The 3rd time she did)...

Her first baby was at age 16. When she was pregnant with her 2nd child, she was "counselled" by an "impartial" nurse... Basically, she did her best to convince my friend that an abortion would not only be the best for her, but that she actually OWED it to her first child and their quality of life to have an abortion! What kind of farking bullshiat is that?? My friend even admits that by the end of the talk, abortion sounded like a damn good plan! The boy she had is now 4 yrs old.... My friend has since then not only finished her high school, but is almost finished a university degree, holds down a part time job at a bank as a teller, and did everything alone... She herself is the youngest of 10 kids, and most of the family lives away. (The fathers of her children do help however).

Expecting mothers are neither "influencable", ready to join cults, or weak in spirit or character... But exposed to the wrong ideas and influences, any sane, normal person can make the wrong choice....

Sorry, Rei.. Can't agree with you on that one.. :-)
 
2001-08-01 10:50:08 AM
yep, all the Family Planning spending has worked so far, right?

Oh, and Rei, anyone who disagrees with you lives in a cave? wow.
 
2001-08-01 11:00:16 AM
Abortions for all!

booooooooooooooooooooooooo

No abortions for any!

booooooooooooooooooooooooo

Abortions for some.... Minature American flags for others!

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

See, its simple. Really it is
 
2001-08-01 11:00:31 AM
Mabey Bush just thinks that if less people were farking whoever and whenever they wanted, the spread of STD's would be reduced, less unwanted babies would be born, and those that weren't wanted wouldn't have to be dismembered and have their skulls crushed in order to remove them from their safe, comfortable enviroment.

Stupid Bush, what ever was he thinking.
 
2001-08-01 11:00:41 AM
Why, yes, the Family Planning spending has gotten us one of the lowest teen-pregnancy rates we've had since the Reagan administration, ackshully.

I would say that anyone who thinks sex ed programs turn kids into "sex machines" is probably living in a cave, or some other place where oxygen is not readily available to the brain.
 
2001-08-01 11:09:47 AM
Whats wrong with being a sex machine damnit? Sex is great.
 
2001-08-01 11:09:52 AM
Yup Fishbulb, that's pretty much it, leave the status-quo.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it...

3Horn
 
2001-08-01 11:15:51 AM
myth: do those teen pregnancy rates go by the number that actually have the child? Or does it include all the pregnancies?
 
2001-08-01 11:18:56 AM
I can't tell if you serious or joking 3horn, but I'm just trying to add some levity to this whole bag of chips. Arguing about abortion is like arguing about religion, because most of the time, its a religious argument. It can't go anywhere. Its as effective as smashing your head into a wall. Fun and games, fun and games.
 
2001-08-01 11:20:37 AM
An article hasn't make me sad like this one has in a long time. How can our president be so blind to the actual struggle of teen-sex. It is hard enough to get people to use them without saying that they are evil. I just see this country really going backward.
 
2001-08-01 11:42:25 AM
Actually, I was being serious. I think it works pretty well the way it is, keep abortion legal, don't condemn condoms OR abstinence, but don't put our heads in the sand either...

3Horn
 
2001-08-01 11:46:51 AM
Ill condem abstinence all day :) Abstinence is stupid. Sex is a great thing. Everyone should have more sex. It wouldn't hurt.
 
Rei
2001-08-01 11:47:01 AM
JimDunlop:

I was serious about the cult issue. Who do you think it is that joins cults? Its always "someone else", isn't it? No, its people who can be influenced by strangers, without checking their own convictions first. I've stated to my father before, to watch my older sister. She was one of those people who watched the fox show on the moon landing, and was convinced that it was faked. My father laughed, but I told him I was serious, and I could tell he knew where I was coming from. If your best friend, with a brief talk with a councellor, could be convinced to do something as major of a life change as decide to terminate a pregnancy, there is nothing on earth that would stop her from deciding to move into a compound with some new "friends" she's made.

Fishbulb:
I never would have guessed that a simpsons quote would have made it into this board ;)

Nate007:
Teenage pregnancy numbers count the number of pregnancies, not the number of births.

Here's Canada's Stats, up to 1995
Here's the US's stats, but their teen pregnancy rates only go up to '92 (Bush's Presidency).

Sorry, its the best I could do!

-= rei =-
 
Rei
2001-08-01 11:47:40 AM
</A>
Whoops. :)

-= rei =-
 
2001-08-01 11:49:47 AM
An article hasn't make me sad like this one has in a long time. How can our president be so blind to the actual struggle of teen-sex. It is hard enough to get people to use condoms without saying that they are evil. This country is going to look like afghanistan pretty soon.
 
2001-08-01 11:51:11 AM
Rei:
There is a Simpsons quote for EVERY occasion.

I'm such a geek
 
daz
2001-08-01 11:52:09 AM
There's no solution to this problem any more. The solution was that people take more responsibility for their actions, and don't go around humping whomever they want, when they want. They take moderation and wait until they find a mate and then get married. Yeah, all you assholes will call me "old fashioned" or whatever, but I tell you one thing, there was almost nil teen pregnancy and a fraction of a percent of STDs. We also didn't have an unwanted pregnancy problem, let alone an out-of-wedlock problem (yes, there were small occurances, but society was able to deal with them as they come, they weren't epedemics like today).

The problem today is, people think they are ENTITLED to everything. They think that they, too, should be rich, should have the new car, should have the boat, should have everything that everyone else has, but no one wants to work for it.

Entitlement and lack of responsibility is, and will be the downfall of the United States.

I mean, hell, people are burning their houses down because they're too retarded to know that pop-tarts, left unattended, will catch fire. Now it's Kellogs fault! Give me a friggin' break. However, this illustrates the mindset in America. It's always someone elses fault.

If I knock a girl up, hey, it's someone elses fault, we'll just kill the baby. And vice-versa for the woman. Nevermind that they were both adults, had consenual sex and now they don't want to accept the consequence and responsibility for their actions.

BTW, I'm Pro-Choice: A man and a woman have the choice to have sex or not. Once they commit the act, they must accept all consequences (infection, pregnancy, etc).

This has nothing to do with religion, so don't start in with that bullshiat ("Oh, you're just a right-wing Christianista")
 
2001-08-01 11:57:48 AM
Rei hits the nail on the head once again...

IMO
Aborotions should not be used for birthcontrol that is what uh codems and the pill is for.. BUT there are cases such as rape, and medical reasons where early abortions is needed.

I do not like abortion, but it needs to be... It is not place to tell enforce my morals on someone else, and I should expect others not to enforce theirs on me. As someone said above...

If you don't like abortions and think they are wrong...

Don't get one...

But anyway.. Bush is still a lame brain
 
2001-08-01 12:01:59 PM
there has been roughly a 75% decline in the number of unwanted pregnancies and STDs since the early 80s when condoms really started to get used. the pope hasn't prevented any ... who wins? I wish the pope would surrender.

Anyway, abstinence really is the best solution, but even with sexual education, who wants to give it up? If people won't protect themselves and it's an issue like STDS, then condoms are certainly a better solution than none.
 
2001-08-01 12:02:22 PM
Daz I almost totally agree with you : ) well pretty much do.. Exept if ya wanna Fark Fark.. and call it good, just use a bloody condom (well maybe a non-bloody one would be better hehe)...

Just under a FEW circumstances abortions are nessary. It is SOMEONELSE's fault if you got raped... NOT somoene elses fault if you do it by choice..
 
2001-08-01 12:02:56 PM
ok. this really doesn't have to do with the article but i figured it was a good place to get an answer.
here goes:

I'm always hearing pro-choicers saying that people protesting and trying to convince women not to have abortions only delays her decision and she ends up having the abortion later in the pregnancy. if there's nothing wrong with abortions, why is it a bad thing if it happens at 14 or 16 weeks instead of 6 or 8?
 
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