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(Reason Magazine)   "People who decry the Wal-Mart-ification of America need to realize that regulation often does more harm to local businesses than predatory pricing, loss-leader business models, or some other imagined corporate evil."   (reason.com) divider line 278
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6682 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Dec 2007 at 6:37 PM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-12-05 03:29:51 PM  
I disagree.
 
2007-12-05 03:31:34 PM  
Bullshiat.
 
2007-12-05 03:32:08 PM  
s_mcdonald: I disagree.

He wasn't stating an opinion.
 
2007-12-05 03:32:35 PM  
Oh bullsh*t it does.

Regulation only happens because corporations can't control their piggish, greedy behavior.

And without said regulation, small business doesn't stand a chance.
 
2007-12-05 03:32:38 PM  
submitter: some other imagined corporate evil


I don't think the tax breaks and other financial incentives that were handed to Wal Mart by cities around the country were "imagined" just like I don't think there was a single small business in history that got the same treatment.


Wal Mart sucks GOP dick and now, finally, they're the ones taking it in the ass...
 
2007-12-05 03:34:59 PM  
Worse than putting them out of business?
 
2007-12-05 03:35:58 PM  
whidbey: Regulation only happens because corporations can't control their piggish, greedy behavior.

Regulations helps big business. It raises the cost of doing business which big business can absorb while small businesses suffer.

And without said regulation, small business doesn't stand a chance.

See above.
 
2007-12-05 03:37:19 PM  
It cost Pennsylvania taxpayers $30 million last year to cover the health insurance of Wal-Mart employees. While Old Man Sam seemed to be a decent person while being a solid businessman, his progeny can eat steaming bowls of monkey ass.

My tax dollars (and yours) shouldn't go toward a diamond-crusted shift knob for a Walton kid's Bugatti.
 
2007-12-05 03:38:53 PM  
pwhp_67: I don't think the tax breaks and other financial incentives that were handed to Wal Mart by cities around the country were "imagined" just like I don't think there was a single small business in history that got the same treatment.

Uhm, you're validating exactly what the reason article states. Government laws and regulations favor big business.
 
2007-12-05 03:39:36 PM  
pwhp_67: Wal Mart sucks GOP dick and now, finally, they're the ones taking it in the ass...

Wal-Mart just goes where their dollar gets the most value. When the GOP ran Congress, it was an 80-20 split on the donations. Now that the Dems are in charge, the 2008 cycle has a 60-40 split, though still in favor of the GOP.
 
2007-12-05 03:41:25 PM  
The entire economic system of the U.S. is regulated. We do not live in a free economy anyway. It's all a sham.
 
2007-12-05 03:41:31 PM  
Mr. Coffee Nerves: It cost Pennsylvania taxpayers $30 million last year to cover the health insurance of Wal-Mart employees. While Old Man Sam seemed to be a decent person while being a solid businessman, his progeny can eat steaming bowls of monkey ass.

My tax dollars (and yours) shouldn't go toward a diamond-crusted shift knob for a Walton kid's Bugatti.


If you're pissed about the Government taking your money to fund the health care of others, BE PISSED AT THE GOVERNMENT. Wal-Mart is not obligated legally or morally to provide health care for any of its employees.
 
2007-12-05 03:43:17 PM  
Mr. Three: The entire economic system of the U.S. is regulated. We do not live in a free economy anyway. It's all a sham.

I thought it was odd the President was going to freeze mortgage rates in this free market economy of ours.
 
2007-12-05 03:43:50 PM  
mmm... pancake: See above.

I've seen plenty, thanks.

Not changing my stance on this.
 
2007-12-05 03:44:22 PM  
Who said anything about regulation? I just choose not to shop at Wal-Mart. Or in this new ideology, am I a bad citizen for spending my money elsewhere?
 
2007-12-05 03:44:55 PM  
mmm... pancake: Regulations helps big business. It raises the cost of doing business which big business can absorb while small businesses suffer

Bullsh*t. You should work in PR propaganda. It's your calling.
 
2007-12-05 03:45:58 PM  
mmm... pancake: Wal-Mart is not obligated legally or morally to provide health care for any of its employees.

That depends on how you define legally and morally. It could be argued by me that it would be in the best interest of the shareholders to have healthy happy employees manning the stores, rather than sickly over-stressed retards. If a company is bound to provide value for the shareholders, the shareholders would have a legal right to demand that Walmart provide better health care for their employees.
 
2007-12-05 03:46:58 PM  
whidbey: Not changing my stance on this.

People like yourself are the economic equivalent of anti-evolutionists. All the evidence is staring them in the face, but they choose to bury their heads in the sand because it doesn't jive with their personal beliefs.
 
2007-12-05 03:47:34 PM  
i read that as Wal-Mart-defication

no, you can't have a poopthread
 
2007-12-05 03:48:05 PM  
EatHam: If a company is bound to provide value for the shareholders, the shareholders would have a legal right to demand that Walmart provide better health care for their employees.

Sure, they can demand it and if the shareholders want it that bad they'll get it. At least that is a voluntary decision. Won't find me griping about that at all.
 
2007-12-05 03:49:51 PM  
whidbey: Regulation only happens because corporations can't control their piggish, greedy behavior.

Incorrect sir, often regulation happens when one company has enough money to pay for enough people in Washington to talk to the right people to get their little fiefdom regulated to the point that others can't get into the business. See cable companies and wireless phone providers.

As for WalMart and it's providing of or not providing of health benefits to it's employees: If the same employee were not working at WalMart and were instead working somewhere else which would hire them (i.e. they qualify for a job with and can get hired) hat are the pay and benefits they would get?

If someone wants better insurance and better pay they work their way up to the point of not working at WallyWorld. I have seen too many instances of people doing this to think it's anybody other than the individuals job to provide for the individual.
 
2007-12-05 03:50:30 PM  
A free and unregulated market would be one of the worst things to ever happen to the people of this nation.
 
2007-12-05 03:51:42 PM  
mmm... pancake: People like yourself are the economic equivalent of anti-evolutionists. All the evidence is staring them in the face, but they choose to bury their heads in the sand because it doesn't jive with their personal beliefs.

I'm not the one who buys into the crap the article is peddling. It's you.

Regulation ONLY HAPPENS because companies don't play fair. THE ONLY reason. And they still whine when they don't make the money they wanted because of fines, extra taxes and lawsuits.

Small business thrives because of the smackdowns to big business: they depend on it.
 
2007-12-05 03:52:11 PM  
mmm... pancake: At least that is a voluntary decision. Won't find me griping about that at all.

My point being that the decision could be made in such a way that Walmart would be legally obligated to, against their will, provide health care for their employees without government intervention.
 
2007-12-05 03:53:05 PM  
revskippy: Incorrect sir, often regulation happens when one company has enough money to pay for enough people in Washington to talk to the right people to get their little fiefdom regulated to the point that others can't get into the business. See cable companies and wireless phone providers.

That might be true in some cases, but the vast majority is in response to bad business practices. See any and all environmental regulations, anti-trust suits and other Better Business Bureau-style complaints.
 
2007-12-05 03:53:46 PM  
whidbey: Bullsh*t. You should work in PR propaganda. It's your calling.

Wal-Mart exec calling for an increase in the minimum wage.

Read to find out why.
 
2007-12-05 03:53:53 PM  
mmm... pancake: Wal-Mart is not obligated legally or morally to provide health care for any of its employees.


That's the current spin that we hear a lot these days. Unfortunately for WalMart, many of us have good memories and we remember the timeline.

WalMart would typically tell a city council that it planned on opening a massive store and would hire 300 people and wouldn't that be just dreamy for the local economy? So good, in fact, that you could let us skip on the property tax for 3 years, approve the special zoning that we want, and throw in some other handouts as well?

Then, once they've looted the city, they (WalMart) hires 300 people only 75% of them are part-time and therefore not eligible for health care (So they get on the state assistance program.) and many in the 25% of full-time employees make so little that they can't afford the health package either and so they get on the local tax-payer supported plan.

So you're right - they are not obligated to provide health coverage or any other benefit. So what? The fact is they bullshiatted the local government, farked up the local economy, and so now many cities are telling them to provide for the employees or get the fark out.

It's called "payback" and it can be a biatch...
 
2007-12-05 03:55:48 PM  
whidbey: Regulation ONLY HAPPENS because companies don't play fair. THE ONLY reason.

You have a lot to learn about politics.
 
2007-12-05 03:56:01 PM  
whidbey: Regulation ONLY HAPPENS because companies don't play fair. THE ONLY reason.

Maybe it only should happen that way, but the facts would indicate that you don't know what you're talking about.
 
2007-12-05 03:56:05 PM  
Not all regulation favors big business.

A number of cities/towns (mostly on the west coast, i think) have been toying with something generally referred to as "formula retail/business ordinances" which are designed to protect downtowns & independently-owned small(er) businesses.

The gist is that an area is demarcated for "protection" and within this area, building permits (and or zoning/planning permissions) are denied to "national" or "international" chain stores. The area is sanctioned only for smaller, locally-owned chains or independent small businesses.

Interesting stuff.
 
2007-12-05 03:56:21 PM  
mmm... pancake:

Wal-Mart exec calling for an increase in the minimum wage.

Read to find out why.

I know why. They want to put a human face on their greedy operation by throwing a bone to their workers. Raising their miserable wage a few pennies keeps the wolves away. For now.

They pretty much resigned themselves to the inevitable and took the plunge.
 
2007-12-05 03:57:43 PM  
This article should be mandatory reading for every city council-type person in the USA.

$50 for a city ladder permit & $55 for a city building permit to change letter on a sign is why Mom & Pop sell their store to Starbucks.

Don't blame Starbucks. Blame the politicians who pass these stupid anti-business regulations.
 
2007-12-05 03:57:49 PM  
pwhp_67: Then, once they've looted the city, they (WalMart) hires 300 people only 75% of them are part-time and therefore not eligible for health care (So they get on the state assistance program.) and many in the 25% of full-time employees make so little that they can't afford the health package either and so they get on the local tax-payer supported plan.

What Wal-mart did to my little area here was open the store just before Christmas shopping started, hired the 300 and then laid-off half of them after New Year's. I know it's not your point, but just showing you what else they pull off.
 
2007-12-05 03:58:29 PM  
Do you work more than 40 hours per week? Yes? Then you're the real Hitler here. Do you know how many people had to fight and DIE to give us the 40 hour work week?
 
2007-12-05 04:05:43 PM  
whidbey: Regulation ONLY HAPPENS because companies don't play fair. THE ONLY reason

What company, for instance, didn't play fair so that businesses in Massachusetts cannot sell beer after 6 PM on Sunday?

Why, according to TFA, do you need to obtain two permits totalling over $100 in fees to refresh the paint on your storefront sign?

Think about it. Most regulation happens because power, once ceded to the government, is very difficult to wrest back.
 
2007-12-05 04:11:17 PM  
whidbey: I know why. They want to put a human face on their greedy operation by throwing a bone to their workers. Raising their miserable wage a few pennies keeps the wolves away. For now.

They don't have to wait for a minimum wage increase to increase the pay of their workers. Try again.
 
2007-12-05 04:14:36 PM  
whidbey, mmm... pancake:

It's only partly that they "want to put a human face" on their greedy operations.

The vast majority of WM's clientele & employees are minimum wage (or near minimum wage) workers who are forced to shop at WM because it's about the only place they can afford to shop.

WM has seen the writing on the wall. They know Cost of Living is going up - especially with the rising price of gas - and wages among the lower classes don't seem to be keeping up.

Wal-Mart needs the lower classes to have the same level of disposable income they've had in the late 90s/early 2000's in order for their business model to work.

Wal-Mart doesn't make money on a lot of their groceries & necessity items. They make the money on the impulse purchase of white goods, appliances, electronics, clothing, etc (all of which have much higher unit margins) that their customers buy with the money they've "saved" on the necessity items.

WM needs the minimum wage to go up to sustain their business model.

Remember - Wal-mart may be evil, but they are NOT stupid.
 
2007-12-05 04:15:18 PM  
pandabear: Think about it. Most regulation happens because power, once ceded to the government, is very difficult to wrest back.


It's only difficult because somewhere around 30% of the eligible voters turn out for a local election and of that number, 60-70% are ignorant jackholes who should have stayed home.

Start voting out the assholes and see how quickly you can get shiat like that changed...
 
2007-12-05 04:16:30 PM  
Infamous Dr. X
They make the money on the impulse purchase of white goods,...

that's racist.
 
2007-12-05 04:17:06 PM  
Infamous Dr. X: WM needs the minimum wage to go up to sustain their business model.

At the expense of smaller businesses who can't afford a minimum wage increase.
 
2007-12-05 04:22:05 PM  
mmm... pancake: At the expense of smaller businesses who can't afford a minimum wage increase.


Which would be who, exactly? There isn't a single business in Tucson that I'm aware of that is currently paying minimum wage. They wouldn't get anybody to fill out an application for a salary that small.

Minimum wage is only meant to support teenagers working at McDonald's so that they have gas and movie money. It isn't meant to pay adults working at WalMart who have families to support and who are at WalMart because the family-owned store they used to work at went out of business after WalMart moved in...
 
2007-12-05 04:24:45 PM  
mmm... pancake: At the expense of smaller businesses who can't afford a minimum wage increase.

If a small business can't even pay its employees anything above minimum wage in the first place, they've got more problems that just the Wal Marts of the world.
 
2007-12-05 04:30:58 PM  
pwhp_67: Minimum wage is only meant to support teenagers working at McDonald's so that they have gas and movie money. It isn't meant to pay adults working at WalMart who have families to support and who are at WalMart because the family-owned store they used to work at went out of business after WalMart moved in...

Minimum wage is for people whose job skills are so poor that they cannot possibly be paid any less than what they are. Teenagers working at McDonald's do not make minimum wage either. The only people who make minimum wage are being overpaid.
 
2007-12-05 04:34:41 PM  
Also, most restaurants with wait staff, and most hotels employ people at minimum wage.
 
2007-12-05 04:35:20 PM  
whidbey: If a small business can't even pay its employees anything above minimum wage in the first place, they've got more problems that just the Wal Marts of the world.

Then a minimum wage is pointless.
 
2007-12-05 04:40:37 PM  
mmm... pancake: Then a minimum wage is pointless.


Pretty much. Right now it sets a minimum for waiters/waitresses because they get paid under minimum and then a base amount of tips is factored into their pay automatically. But other than that, yeah, even Pizza Hut here is paying delivery drivers around $15/hour plus commissions...
 
2007-12-05 04:48:06 PM  
is this walmart week or something? every day we've had something about these bastards
 
2007-12-05 04:48:09 PM  
EatHam: Also, most restaurants with wait staff, and most hotels employ people at minimum wage.

Obviously because they make more money on top of that.

mmm... pancake: Then a minimum wage is pointless.

You know why we have it, I don't understand your reply.

EVERY business, if they want to stay in business, should pay their employees a living wage, starting with the minimum.

If they refuse to pay above that minimum, they're penny-pinching misers that should go under anyway. They're no good to the community.
 
2007-12-05 04:50:22 PM  
whidbey: Obviously because they make more money on top of that.

Right, obviously dish washers are finishing work and riding home in their new bmw.
 
2007-12-05 04:51:40 PM  
EatHam: Right, obviously dish washers are finishing work and riding home in their new bmw.

Dishwashers definitely get the shaft compared to other staff, but the two DW jobs I had back in college paid above minimum wage AND we had profit sharing...:)
 
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