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(Yahoo)   Boston and Minnesota finalizing deal to send Johan Santana to the Red Sox, probably Jon Lester or Jacoby Ellsbury to the Twins   (sports.yahoo.com) divider line 186
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1688 clicks; posted to Sports » on 05 Dec 2007 at 10:00 AM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-12-05 07:59:08 AM  
Meh. He'll go to the yankees.
 
2007-12-05 08:06:43 AM  
Ah not so fast there. Yes the Sox have a very good chance of getting him, but the Angles are now in the mix. The Yanks are out and I wouldn't be surprised if he stays in Minn or ends up going to the Angles. I think Minn is asking too much for Santana, but I do think the Angles will give in. I think the Sox and the Yanks as crazy as it sounds might end up losing more in the long run.
 
2007-12-05 08:07:28 AM  
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
 
2007-12-05 09:15:39 AM  
Boston and Minnesota finalizing deal to send Johan Santana to the Red Sox, probably Jon Lester or and Jacoby Ellsbury to the Twins

Fixed
 
2007-12-05 09:40:00 AM  
We interrupt this imminent flamewar for a special announcement:

The Boston Red Sox are the new New York Yankees.

We now return you to your flamewar, already in progress.
 
2007-12-05 10:02:58 AM  
ThatGuyGreg: We interrupt this imminent flamewar for a special announcement:

The Boston Red Sox are the new New York Yankees.

We now return you to your flamewar, already in progress.


As much as I'd like to say BS... it's pretty true and deals like this prove it.

There is only one way this works out for the Yankees and that is if Hughes turns out to be a complete badass.
 
2007-12-05 10:04:17 AM  
The Boston Red Sox may be the new Yankees but at least we don't have gay-rod.
 
2007-12-05 10:05:17 AM  
if they get him my yanks are done. it was gonna be pretty hard to compete against them anyway but damn. i also heard that angels have dropped out as well.
 
2007-12-05 10:05:21 AM  
dumass123: The Boston Red Sox may be the new Yankees but at least we don't have gay-rod.

No...just Man Ram
 
2007-12-05 10:09:42 AM  
Good...That will give the Indians another win against the Red Sox.

/4-0 vs Santana last year.
 
2007-12-05 10:10:37 AM  
dumass123: The Boston Red Sox may be the new Yankees but at least we don't have gay-rod.

Ya know this joke never gets old. Ya see, "gay-rod" rhymes with "a-rod", and "gay" is of course a pejorative... therefore it is comedy gold! Win!
 
2007-12-05 10:12:23 AM  
Seriously? The Twins would take Lester and Ellsbury, but not Melky and Hughes?
 
2007-12-05 10:12:40 AM  
"Johan Santana is a consummate professional. He's a great, great representative of this organization," the GM said. "But in all scenarios, we're going to try to make good baseball deals. We're going to try to make good decisions that benefit this club. And, as I say, if Johan is our opening-day starter, that's not bad."

Nice posturing, but everyone and their mother knows that not making a deal for Santana would be a huge mistake. Minnesota will not be a contending team next year and will not be able to afford him when he goes to free agency. Getting nothing for a great pitcher while he's still able to be traded would be a very bad move.

/a mid-season trade would still be possible
//doesn't care if the Sox don't make the deal
///hopes we keep Tacoby
 
2007-12-05 10:12:49 AM  
SuburbanSound: Good...That will give the Indians another win against the Red Sox.

/4-0 vs Santana last year.


Beckett
Santana
Dicke-K
Schilling
Buchholz

/he won't be pitching every game against the Indians you know

//was happy for Lester to come back, but do hope it's him and not Ellsbury, while I think Dustin can be an ok lead off guy, Jacoby just has wheels, man
 
2007-12-05 10:14:09 AM  
img247.imageshack.us

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
 
2007-12-05 10:14:25 AM  
Talk is that Lester is in the deal, not Ellsbury. With Crisp in the mix, Sox need to hang onto Ellsbury for center field.
 
2007-12-05 10:16:47 AM  
On the trade font, if there are Twins fans out there: How do you feel about this trade vs. the one the yanks were offering?

Ellsbury is clearly a more promising player than Melky, but wouldn't you rather have Hughes than Lester?

Honestly, since the guy is walking and demanding $125M I think the Twins are lucky to get either deal. But will Twins fans think they took the lesser deal?
 
2007-12-05 10:17:21 AM  
No, no, no, no, no.

The Sox won the series with what they've got. Just stop it, Theo - we're not the Yankees.
 
2007-12-05 10:18:07 AM  
WinoRhino: Talk is that Lester is in the deal, not Ellsbury. With Crisp in the mix, Sox need to hang onto Ellsbury for center field.

Really? Lester and Crisp?

Wow, that is what I call a bargain.
 
2007-12-05 10:18:25 AM  
Mike F: Ah not so fast there. Yes the Sox have a very good chance of getting him, but the Angles are now in the mix. The Yanks are out and I wouldn't be surprised if he stays in Minn or ends up going to the Angles. I think Minn is asking too much for Santana, but I do think the Angles will give in. I think the Sox and the Yanks as crazy as it sounds might end up losing more in the long run.

Buster Olney said last night that the Angels told him they're out.

/FWIW
 
2007-12-05 10:18:42 AM  
and for the whole Sox becoming the Yankees thing -

eh, what can you say, in a way they have, you're right

//at least they're paying some top money for good younger talent though, and not over the hill, inflated contracts (with egos to match)

If this deal goes through how can the prognostication be anything but a Sox-Tigers ALCS when the season starts?
 
2007-12-05 10:21:14 AM  
Mike F: Ah not so fast there. Yes the Sox have a very good chance of getting him, but the Angles are now in the mix.

The Angels have no idea where rumors of them being included came from and the GM has publicly said they have not discussed going after Santana.

"We haven't had any discussions about adding starting pitching," Reagins told Los Angeles writers. "Rumors are out there. It's rumor. I've been watching ESPN, seeing things being reported. You wonder where it comes from."
 
2007-12-05 10:23:44 AM  
The Dynamite Monkey: Wow, that is what I call a bargain.

There are 2-3 other prospects in the mix. Just not Bucholz and Ellsbury. But this is based on dribs and drabs in the last few hours from various sources. I don't claim to have any inside info.

IMHO, I wouldn't do the deal if it included Bucholz or Ellsbury. I just like the idea of having two prospects like that (pitcher with a no-hitter and a great lead-off hitter / center fielder) locked up at minimum wage for 5 years.
 
2007-12-05 10:24:30 AM  
I've never understood why Melky Cabrera was considered such a chip in the Yankees' proposal. Yes, he fills a hole for the Twins, and yes he's proven to be better than his disastrous cameo debut in '05 might have suggested. But his ceiling's only so high, and his starting job in NY last year demonstrates a relative lack of options more than his arrival as a full-time major league.

/Sox fan
//Ellsbury's overhyped, too, but he has more tools than Melky.
 
2007-12-05 10:26:29 AM  
How exactly is this a Yankees-esque move? If the Sox were shelling out an enormous sum to grab Santana as a free agent, then I could see the comparison, but this is a trade. If this goes through, it's an example of the Sox using prospects from the farm system (plus Crisp) to get a good player, not the Sox flexing their financial muscle a la Steinbrenner.
 
2007-12-05 10:26:49 AM  
Hank TF:Seriously? The Twins would take Lester and Ellsbury, but not Melky and Hughes?

That is a very good question. Think the Yanks are better off keeping Hughes. Hughes has 95 mph nasty stuff. Lester has cancer. Cashman does have an excellant record with big name free agent pitchers. See Clemons, Kevin Browne, Randy Johnson, Carl Pavano, Kenny Rodgers, Etc.
 
2007-12-05 10:27:18 AM  
Hank Chinaski: Seriously? The Twins would take Lester and Ellsbury, but not Melky and Hughes?

Is there a news blackout in NY? The Sox have two or three additional prospects in the deal. And it's Ellsbury OR Lester and Crisp.
 
2007-12-05 10:28:06 AM  
The only word to describe the Sox is SICK if this goes through. Barring injuries of the type that decimated the Yankee's staff for the first month or so of this past season, Red Sox are going to be untouchable. My Yanks...well, they can still beat up on the Rays and Orioles! And oy, that central division now...the Royals are going to be AWESOME!

But strangely, I'm okay with this. I don't want the Yankees to give up Hughes AND Kennedy. If Minnesota would take the Hughes and Melky +1 minor leaguer, I'd be ok with that...but to give up so much young talent...i like the way they've approached it. So far, that is. Who knows, in two days we might be offering them everyone. Hope not.

The Dynamite Monkey
I think if the choice was Hughes and Melky vs. Lester and Ellsbury, it would be pretty close...Lester and Crisp, then clearly in my mind the Yankee one is better. But its not just that - the Sox are throwing 2 or 3 more solid prospects at the Twins...Yanks aren't. So they're deal seems much better to me, if i were a Twins fan.

I'm hoping the Twins just don't trade him. Let him be a free agent next year, then come walking in with a big contract offer. I think thats why the Red Sox are being aggressive...if they don't get him this year, they must think his preference would be NY, and he'd take a contract there.


And do any other Yankee fans have a problem with giving up Hughes and Melky or a similar package that has been offered to Santana for Dan Haren? I mean, he was really good this year, and he's under contract for 3 more years, but...I don't know, i just don't like it. Thoughts?
 
2007-12-05 10:30:53 AM  
drop acid
Hughes has 95 mph nasty stuff. Lester has cancer.

*cringe*
 
2007-12-05 10:32:01 AM  
You know, I keep seeing all this talk about Lester not being that good, blah blah blah, stealing Johan, blah blah. We've all heard the arguments: he isn't efficient with pitches. He gets into jams. There's a question on the health. Yadda yadda yadda.

He beat cancer, and came back in less than a year to win 4 games and perform in the postseason. He is completely unrattleable. Almost 7 K/9 in two years. Great stuff. You'll like him.

The others in that deal aren't bad either - Lowrie has been touted as our shortstop of the future, and Masterson is just awesome to watch. Coco Crisp is one of the best defensive center fielders anywhere, and a true gamer.

Why is this such a horrible deal? I'd be ok with keeping all these guys if the Twins don't want to make the trade.
 
2007-12-05 10:33:05 AM  
Then Angels confirmed that they weren't even talking with the Angels. Right now, it seems to be the Sox only unless Steinberner is pulling some mastermind move right now.
 
2007-12-05 10:33:10 AM  
Luthiel: How exactly is this a Yankees-esque move? If the Sox were shelling out an enormous sum to grab Santana as a free agent, then I could see the comparison, but this is a trade. If this goes through, it's an example of the Sox using prospects from the farm system (plus Crisp) to get a good player, not the Sox flexing their financial muscle a la Steinbrenner.

Yankees used to do that for fun before they ran out of worthwhile prospects.
 
2007-12-05 10:33:19 AM  
i wouldnt mind giving up hughes and melky for santana, hes a proven winner and a #1 starter. for Haren, hell no, maybe a few magic beans for him. as i said before sox will eat our lunch this year if they get santana
 
2007-12-05 10:33:56 AM  
The only way this works out well for Yankee fans (like me) is if the Sox overpay, then Santana's arm explodes in spring training.
 
2007-12-05 10:35:22 AM  
arbitrary:
And do any other Yankee fans have a problem with giving up Hughes and Melky or a similar package that has been offered to Santana for Dan Haren? I mean, he was really good this year, and he's under contract for 3 more years, but...I don't know, i just don't like it. Thoughts?


Not a Yankee fan, but I'm not that excited about Haren either. He plays in Oakland, with its 45 yards of foul territory on every side. There hasn't been a pitcher come out of Oakland in years that hasn't been a major disappointment.
 
2007-12-05 10:37:01 AM  
ThatGuyGreg: The Boston Red Sox are the new New York Yankees.

Nope. I can't agree. The Red Sox:

1. Does not have an owner that seeks the media limelight or fires managers because he's mad at them.

2. Does not have an owner that takes over trade negotiations.

3. Is run by people who work with statistics to find players for bargain prices (Bobby Kielty, Hinske, etc.)

That isn't how the Yankees have been run (and it looks like that isn't the way they're being run now.)

Are the Red Sox similar to the Yankees because they have a large payroll? Yes. But, Theo calls the shots and he always does his homework. This, of course, does not mean that he never makes mistakes.

/Isn't calling the Drew, Lugo, and Dice-K signings "mistakes" yet.
//If everything was based on first-year statistics, the Beckett deal sucks.
 
2007-12-05 10:38:05 AM  
i rather get the lefty from baltimore then get Haren
 
2007-12-05 10:39:20 AM  
Morlith: //If everything was based on first-year statistics, the Beckett deal sucks.

yep, agree

and I'm convinced that we'll see the same thing happen with Dice-K this year

/now is settled in a bit, knows the strike zone over here better, has felt how New England responds to a World Series win
 
2007-12-05 10:39:53 AM  
scavenger: The only way this works out well for Yankee fans (like me) is if the Sox overpay, then Santana's arm explodes in spring training.

They call that the "Pavano Effect."
 
2007-12-05 10:40:17 AM  
overheard in mayfair: I've never understood why Melky Cabrera was considered such a chip in the Yankees' proposal. Yes, he fills a hole for the Twins, and yes he's proven to be better than his disastrous cameo debut in '05 might have suggested. But his ceiling's only so high, and his starting job in NY last year demonstrates a relative lack of options more than his arrival as a full-time major league.

I agree. Melky's offensive numbers are pretty much like Coco's, but he's not as good a fielder (though he has a better arm) and not as fast on the bases. Why do Yankees fans think he would make the Twins drool?
 
2007-12-05 10:40:37 AM  
Garnett, Moss, Ortiz, Maroney and now Santana.

Fark Boston. That is all.

At least I was able to watch Mark Blount and Ricky Davis act like whiny little shiats for two years. And now I get to see Telfair, Gomes and Gerald Green vie for the NBA's all-time worst record.

/Minnesotan
//Currently 2-15
 
2007-12-05 10:40:41 AM  
FR: i rather get the lefty from baltimore then get Haren
Bedard has filthy stuff, but he has 2 years left on his contract. Haren would be a nice pick up for any team, he will come cheap.
 
2007-12-05 10:41:12 AM  
The current options for the Twins are:

Ellsbury, Jed Lowrie, Justin Masterson

Or

Coco Crisp, Jon Lester, Jed Lowrie, Justin Masterson, Ryan Kalish

with the twins leaning towards the latter

---------------------------

Bucholz is considered #1 in the system, followed by Ellsbury, Masterson, Lowrie, then Michael Bowden
 
2007-12-05 10:48:59 AM  
Luthiel: How exactly is this a Yankees-esque move? If the Sox were shelling out an enormous sum to grab Santana as a free agent, then I could see the comparison, but this is a trade. If this goes through, it's an example of the Sox using prospects from the farm system (plus Crisp) to get a good player, not the Sox flexing their financial muscle a la Steinbrenner.

Are you forgetting the $150M extension the sox wil need to give Santana to make it happen?
 
2007-12-05 10:54:05 AM  
drop acid: Hughes has 95 mph nasty stuff. Lester has cancer.

Lester beat cancer. As Did Mike Lowell, Derek Lowe, and Lance Armstrong.
 
2007-12-05 10:54:24 AM  
The Dynamite Monkey: Luthiel: How exactly is this a Yankees-esque move? If the Sox were shelling out an enormous sum to grab Santana as a free agent, then I could see the comparison, but this is a trade. If this goes through, it's an example of the Sox using prospects from the farm system (plus Crisp) to get a good player, not the Sox flexing their financial muscle a la Steinbrenner.

Are you forgetting the $150M extension the sox wil need to give Santana to make it happen?


well, anyone would have to give him that. the fact that some teams really can't do that is a big problem. the league needs to fix it's salary structure. As a Sox fan I'm having fun these days, but as a baseball fan I don't like the way things are.
 
2007-12-05 10:54:27 AM  
Luthiel: How exactly is this a Yankees-esque move? If the Sox were shelling out an enormous sum to grab Santana as a free agent, then I could see the comparison, but this is a trade. If this goes through, it's an example of the Sox using prospects from the farm system (plus Crisp) to get a good player, not the Sox flexing their financial muscle a la Steinbrenner.


Because the Red Sox are throwing their weight around. There's no need for them to have Santana other than to completely dominate.

The Yankees used their top prospects to get a good player too. There's no way Lester and Ellsbury are worth even close to what Santana is worth. There's a little bit more that goes into this than just players.

Scooping up every player who's worth anything has notoriously been the MO of the Yankees. Look where their greed got them, notice how they backed off in favor of keeping their young talent around. If this was 2 years ago, Santana would be wearing pinstripes and Cano, Posada, and A-rod would all be in Minnesota.
 
2007-12-05 10:55:33 AM  
swankywanky:
and I'm convinced that we'll see the same thing happen with Dice-K this year


Agreed.

WinoRhino: They call that the "Pavano Effect."

ZING!

The Dynamite Monkey: Are you forgetting the $150M extension the sox wil need to give Santana to make it happen?

Since Detroit just traded for Willis and Cabrera, can we call them "The New New Yankees" or does the "New Yankees" nickname just apply to Boston because the Red Sox are in the same division?
 
2007-12-05 10:56:53 AM  
This crap is obscene. MN finially ponies up the money for a stadium, actually forced on us in legislative backroom dealing. Then the next day Carl Pohlad goes all fire sale on the team with his strongest players. If it wasn't for the bridge collapse, I doubt the twins would have gotten anybody for SATANa.
 
2007-12-05 10:57:21 AM  
The Dynamite Monkey: Are you forgetting the $150M extension the sox wil need to give Santana to make it happen?

The Giants could afford it if they didn't blow their wad on Zito. The Angels could afford it now. The Dodgers could afford it. Are you saying all of these teams are now the Yankees?
 
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