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(Detroit Free Press)   To boost sales, Ford and GM announce plan to increase the efficiency and reliability of their cars. Haha, just kidding. They decided to contrive a tight supply by making fewer crappy cars   (freep.com) divider line 119
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4039 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Dec 2007 at 10:14 AM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-12-04 09:18:12 AM
I won't buy Ford or GM unless they start making electric cars.
 
2007-12-04 10:18:12 AM
fark car threads, always a highlight
 
2007-12-04 10:18:38 AM
Beatle_Matt: I won't buy Ford or GM unless they start making electric cars.


So what are you driving now?
 
2007-12-04 10:19:27 AM
Ford car we had crapped out after 6 years, ~10k miles a year.

GM car crapped out at 8 years, but only 65,000 miles.

Happy with my Nissan, 80,000 and still going strong.
 
2007-12-04 10:20:01 AM
I don't know about you proles, but I'm expecting that my upper-middle class 40 something wife will purchase me a Lexus this year wtih a big bow on it.

What's that? Your family doesn't buy each other Lexi for Christmas? Loser.
 
2007-12-04 10:20:22 AM
So we're all winners then.
 
2007-12-04 10:21:32 AM
subby They decided to contrive a tight supply by making fewer crappy cars

No, they decided to make fewer cars because they predict that people will postpone car purchases. Sounds like a good business decision. Maybe you should get out of the basement sometimes and see how the real world works. I guess you believe, If you build it they will buy. Not true in the real world.
 
2007-12-04 10:21:46 AM
I for one, welcome our new japanese car making overlords.
 
2007-12-04 10:24:12 AM
fawlty: subby They decided to contrive a tight supply by making fewer crappy cars

No, they decided to make fewer cars because they predict that people will postpone car purchases. Sounds like a good business decision. Maybe you should get out of the basement sometimes and see how the real world works. I guess you believe, If you build it they will buy. Not true in the real world.


i don't plan on buying a car in the immediate future, knowing that the industry is in such a state of change. however, when i do buy one, you can be damn sure i'll buy it from a company that has been actively keeping up with that change, and not some sluggish american company that just sat around and waited.
 
2007-12-04 10:24:17 AM
Is Cartman Ford's CEO?
 
2007-12-04 10:28:34 AM
Is this where I brag about the virtues of my tuned S4?
 
2007-12-04 10:28:40 AM
Well, it's just catching up with their already-implemented long-term strategy of contriving a tight demand.
 
2007-12-04 10:30:44 AM
GM has the electric Volt coming out. Naturally its price will put it out of reach for most people who really need it.
 
2007-12-04 10:30:50 AM
fawlty: subby They decided to contrive a tight supply by making fewer crappy cars

No, they decided to make fewer cars because they predict that people will postpone car purchases. Sounds like a good business decision. Maybe you should get out of the basement sometimes and see how the real world works. I guess you believe, If you build it they will buy. Not true in the real world.


Yes, because certainly no company run by geezer dinosaurs and overstuffed with useless middle management would ever engage in practices to artificially manipulate the market. Of course the mighty GM and Ford would instead engage in forward thinking strategies and innovative ideas and not just hold their collective breath like a five year old child.
 
2007-12-04 10:33:28 AM
Rapmaster2000: I don't know about you proles, but I'm expecting that my upper-middle class 40 something wife will purchase me a Lexus this year wtih a big bow on it.

What's that? Your family doesn't buy each other Lexi for Christmas? Loser.


Ah, Lexus. Faux luxury for the nouveaux riche. If you have the money then go buy a proper luxury car. If you don't then STFU and go back to driving your Ford.
 
2007-12-04 10:35:07 AM
Our third Saturn will be our last. An L100 sedan, $17,500 new. Four years old, 45K miles, it's worth $4,500. Ouch!

Wife is very pleased with her Scion xB. Excellent gas mileage and fun to putt around in.
 
2007-12-04 10:35:20 AM
Hate to tell you, but those that study car reliability, not those basing their opinions on just the cars they and their friends owned, GM has closed the reliability gap on the Japaneses makers. They are only a little behind and their newest models are also designed well. Unlike their stuff from a few years ago.

Now Ford and Dodge have both lost their minds. For some reason they have adopted the 1980's GM way of thinking, make the cheapest designs, try to save every penny without concern for what the consumer wants and f quality over marketing.
 
2007-12-04 10:35:55 AM
Rapmaster2000: I don't know about you proles, but I'm expecting that my upper-middle class 40 something wife will purchase me a Lexus this year wtih a big bow on it.

What's that? Your family doesn't buy each other Lexi for Christmas? Loser.


awesome, enjoy your slushbox kitchen appliance marked up toyota.
 
2007-12-04 10:37:07 AM
They wouldn't have to cut inventory if they made better cars.
 
2007-12-04 10:37:43 AM
"Lexus - that's a Toyota, right"
"No, it's a Lexus"
"Lexus, Toyota - Let's not forget Pearl Harbor"
 
2007-12-04 10:39:51 AM
GM may have decent cars, but good luck finding one. Dealers only get a couple Malibu's (Malibi?) each.

Why wait to drive a car, when Honda, Toyota and Nissan have an Accord, Camry, or Altima on the lot right now?

GM's biggest problem is that they've forgotten what their brands stand for. A Cadillac CTS tuned on Nurburgring?? Thats a job for Pontiac.
 
2007-12-04 10:40:44 AM
Devin172: Beatle_Matt: I won't buy Ford or GM unless they start making electric cars.


So what are you driving now?


/Gm made the first production model electric car...
 
2007-12-04 10:43:59 AM
Lantern42: GM may have decent cars, but good luck finding one. Dealers only get a couple Malibu's (Malibi?) each.

Why wait to drive a car, when Honda, Toyota and Nissan have an Accord, Camry, or Altima on the lot right now?

GM's biggest problem is that they've forgotten what their brands stand for. A Cadillac CTS tuned on Nurburgring?? Thats a job for Pontiac.


Well I for one am glad that they forgot... CTS-V is an awesome car with great styling.

Otherwise we'd have a ugly Pontiac shiatbox slapped with plastic ribs along the side of the car tuned on Nurburgring... no thanks.
 
2007-12-04 10:45:11 AM
Sorry GM, sorry Ford, I'm not about to waste my money on something built poorly in the US.. I wish our workers and designers could pull their head out of their ass, but with the way things are a US made vehicle is often a poor investment.



I wuv my Jap built RX-8
www.diseno-art.com
 
2007-12-04 10:49:00 AM
i don't plan on buying a car in the immediate future, knowing that the industry is in such a state of change. however, when i do buy one, you can be damn sure i'll buy it from a company that has been actively keeping up with that change, and not some sluggish american company that just sat around and waited.

This, in excelsia.

Ford's and GM's 2007 cars seem about as advanced as Honda/Toyota/etc's 2000 models. The US automakers are reactive, not proactive.
 
2007-12-04 10:51:09 AM
I'll never buy new. You don't know if there's going to be a recall on a new car until it's too late. Not even the mighty Toyota is recall free anymore.

Cars owned over the past decade:
Owned and drove a '92 Olds Cutlass Supreme for ten years - sold it with 250,000 miles to a guy that works for me. He's still driving it to work.
'97 Ford Taurus (3.0 Duratec motor) - Currently driving with 148,000 miles.
 
2007-12-04 10:52:20 AM
udeng01: Ford car we had crapped out after 6 years, ~10k miles a year.

GM car crapped out at 8 years, but only 65,000 miles.


Meh. It's largely a matter of luck mixed with how well they're taken care of.

We just retired my wife's '94 Topaz, which had nearly 300,000 miles on the engine. Heck, with some fairly minor work we probably could have easily gotten another 50,000 miles or more out of the thing. The Mrs. REALLY wanted something newer, though.

My '91 Chevy pickup is still running like new even though it has a little over a quarter million miles on the thing-- nearly all highway miles, but still not too bad. Other than the engine it's not perfect, though. The head liner is loose, the tape player is dead, and there have been a number of hard to pin down gremlins in the electrical system. I need to get a new battery for it today.

Overall as you get into the 1990's the quality of American cars improved a great deal. It's my understanding that today they're roughly equal in quality to comparatively priced Japanese cars.

It will be interesting to see what happens to the car market when plug-in hybrids become available. It would be very nice to be able to go 40 miles before having to use the gas engine at all.

I bought my wife an '06 Kia Rio about a month ago. Pretty nice looking little car. Very frugal with the gas.

Seeing as how cheap the thing was all I'm really hoping for is five reliable years of mostly driving around town. Beyond that-- who knows? It will be interesting to see how well it holds up with proper maintenance.

I see a trend towards smaller cars like that Kia Rio. That will change when/if those supercapacitor battery replacements that seem to hold so much promise becomes available.

Of course all bets are off if we have some kind of super recession/depression that some are predicting. I doubt GM could survive one of those.
 
2007-12-04 10:54:12 AM
seal614: Lantern42: GM may have decent cars, but good luck finding one. Dealers only get a couple Malibu's (Malibi?) each.

Why wait to drive a car, when Honda, Toyota and Nissan have an Accord, Camry, or Altima on the lot right now?

GM's biggest problem is that they've forgotten what their brands stand for. A Cadillac CTS tuned on Nurburgring?? Thats a job for Pontiac.

Well I for one am glad that they forgot... CTS-V is an awesome car with great styling.

Otherwise we'd have a ugly Pontiac shiatbox slapped with plastic ribs along the side of the car tuned on Nurburgring... no thanks.


Thats the point I was trying to make. Pontiac is supposed to be the brand that goes after BMW's and Infiniti's, Not a brand for fake hood scoops, side ribs, and rebadged Toyotas. Cadillac in its prime was a brand that would have been the benchmark for Mercedes AND Lexus.
 
2007-12-04 10:54:28 AM
The Drunk IT Guy: Sorry GM, sorry Ford, I'm not about to waste my money on something built poorly in the US.. I wish our workers and designers could pull their head out of their ass, but with the way things are a US made vehicle is often a poor investment.



I wuv my Jap built RX-8


How do you like 17mpg from a sub 2.0liter engine? WOOT JAPANESE TECHNOLOGY.

My 4.6L V8 gets better mileage and more power.
 
2007-12-04 10:55:51 AM
I had a bad experience with brand X, but when I got a Y, it was great! Therefore, Y is a good company you should buy from, but X sucks!

/anecdote ≠ objective truth
 
2007-12-04 10:57:20 AM
Yes, I drive a Toyota. I don't give a damn about performance (I get enough to stay about 5 car lengths behind the car in front of me). I don't care a whole lot about style. My Toyota was made in America. 90% or so of the money that was spent on its initial purchase stayed in the US. I'd a whole helluva lot rather send a few thousand bucks to a first-world ally like Japan than several thousand (in extra gasoline consumption over the life of a car) to countries like Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Venezuela, and Angola.
 
2007-12-04 10:58:45 AM
Nope - it's lipstick on the pig. They are cutting production because they can't SELL their crappy cars.
 
2007-12-04 10:59:44 AM
rwnj: "Lexus - that's a Toyota, right"
"No, it's a Lexus"
"Lexus, Toyota - Let's not forget Pearl Harbor"


Let's not forget Pearl Harbor....I didn't realize Toyota trucks bombed Pearl Harbor?

/Nakajima and Aichi planes did the damage
//And Mitsubishi produced the Zero
///No planes for Toyota
 
2007-12-04 10:59:44 AM
seal614: The Drunk IT Guy: Sorry GM, sorry Ford, I'm not about to waste my money on something built poorly in the US.. I wish our workers and designers could pull their head out of their ass, but with the way things are a US made vehicle is often a poor investment.



I wuv my Jap built RX-8

How do you like 17mpg from a sub 2.0liter engine? WOOT JAPANESE TECHNOLOGY.

My 4.6L V8 gets better mileage and more power.


A 4.6L V8? Wow, you must have an enormous peener.
 
2007-12-04 10:59:47 AM
I like my 2006 Scion xA, so I'm getting kick out of all these replies...
 
2007-12-04 11:01:11 AM
Mordien: I had a bad experience with brand X, but when I got a Y, it was great! Therefore, Y is a good company you should buy from, but X sucks!

/anecdote ≠ objective truth


That's bullshiat. I had a Y, and it totally sucked. You don't know what you're talking about.

/rather push an X than drive a Y
 
2007-12-04 11:01:21 AM
Beatle_Matt
I won't buy Ford or GM unless they start making electric cars.


How is the electricity going to be produced? coal? natural gas? nuclear? Electrical cars are not necessarily less damaging to the environment. Further, if you produce the electricity through some clean and abundant energy source (such as hydrogen..there was a thread last month regarding developments in the production of hydrogenThread here (new window)) then why convert the energy into electricity which is always at a loss, rather than using the energy itself as a fuel?


/Seeing how everyone else is dumping on you I thought I would join in. No offense
 
2007-12-04 11:01:54 AM
drhansenej: seal614: The Drunk IT Guy: Sorry GM, sorry Ford, I'm not about to waste my money on something built poorly in the US.. I wish our workers and designers could pull their head out of their ass, but with the way things are a US made vehicle is often a poor investment.



I wuv my Jap built RX-8

How do you like 17mpg from a sub 2.0liter engine? WOOT JAPANESE TECHNOLOGY.

My 4.6L V8 gets better mileage and more power.

A 4.6L V8? Wow, you must have an enormous peener.


Probably about average, I'll email you a pic for a 2nd opinion.
 
2007-12-04 11:03:34 AM
The Drunk IT Guy: Sorry GM, sorry Ford, I'm not about to waste my money on something built poorly in the US.. I wish our workers and designers could pull their head out of their ass, but with the way things are a US made vehicle is often a poor investment.

I wuv my Jap built RX-8


Mazdas are really just Fords, anyway. Hate to break it to you.

/HONDA FTW!
 
2007-12-04 11:03:35 AM
Lantern42: Cadillac in its prime was a brand that would have been the benchmark for Mercedes AND Lexus.

Yup, because German engineers spent all their time sitting around wondering how they can do better than this:

www.channel4.com
 
2007-12-04 11:04:20 AM
I used to masturbate to pictures of Lee Iacocca so I'm getting a kick out of these comments
 
2007-12-04 11:05:11 AM
Riche:
Overall as you get into the 1990's the quality of American cars improved a great deal. It's my understanding that today they're roughly equal in quality to comparatively priced Japanese cars.


My 1997 Z28 (lemon-lawed), 1996 Mustang Cobra (horrible paint delamination) and 1999 Dakota R/T (improperly engineered suspension) beg to differ.

/Get factory pricing on most domestics and still wouldn't buy 'em
//Way better results with the imports and plan to stay that way
 
2007-12-04 11:07:19 AM
seal614: drhansenej: seal614:

A 4.6L V8? Wow, you must have an enormous peener.

Probably about average, I'll email you a pic for a 2nd opinion.


i12.tinypic.com
 
2007-12-04 11:08:02 AM
Massa Damnata:
why convert the energy into electricity which is always at a loss, rather than using the energy itself as a fuel?


I've seen this argument before, and I'm by no means an expert in energy systems, but aren't large plants far more efficient at converting fuel to energy than small car engines, especially after a few years?

Let's say that it takes 1 unit of energy to create .8 units of hydrogen. Looks like a loss, but if a gas-powered turbine is twice as efficient as a gas car engine, the hydrogen you put in your car is really more efficient than gas would have been.

Just made up those numbers, wish I had some actual figures to run with.
 
2007-12-04 11:09:06 AM
seal614

"How do you like 17mpg from a sub 2.0liter engine? WOOT JAPANESE TECHNOLOGY.

My 4.6L V8 gets better mileage and more power."


I presume you mean it's in a car right, not some giant pickup..

The rotary has two main advantages: It's very light which attributes to a perfectly balanced car. (Mustang, Camaro, Vette, not so much..) It also has a very broad, linear power band with rpm's reaching 9k.

Another reason: Insurance

I'm 24, I cant afford to insure anything full-coverage with a V8. It would cost more than my loan payments. My 8 costs around $110/m to fully insure.
 
2007-12-04 11:09:13 AM
Lantern42: Cadillac in its prime was a brand that would have been the benchmark for Mercedes AND Lexus.

That was about 30 years ago, and GM/Caddy has never even come close to capturing the benchmark again. Remember the Cimmaron?
 
2007-12-04 11:09:55 AM
Raymo853: Now Ford and Dodge have both lost their minds. For some reason they have adopted the 1980's GM way of thinking, make the cheapest designs, try to save every penny without concern for what the consumer wants and f quality over

I blame ze germans for chryslers problem. Immediately after buying chrysler (which saved thier butts, mercedes was losing $$) they instituted a plan called disciplined pizzazz. It basically meant we're going to add models to the line up, make them cheap as possible and cut every corner.

It might have worked for a few years, but it's also one of the reasons they missed the boat on hybrid vehicles and basically ignored shifts in the market.

/new chryslers main priority is quality
//is a chrysler fan/apologist
///the 08 challenger can be ordered now, go buy one - you'll be impressed
 
2007-12-04 11:11:07 AM
ScottMpls

...so you agree they've lost their brand identity?
 
2007-12-04 11:13:20 AM
The Drunk IT Guy: seal614

"How do you like 17mpg from a sub 2.0liter engine? WOOT JAPANESE TECHNOLOGY.

My 4.6L V8 gets better mileage and more power."

I presume you mean it's in a car right, not some giant pickup..

The rotary has two main advantages: It's very light which attributes to a perfectly balanced car. (Mustang, Camaro, Vette, not so much..) It also has a very broad, linear power band with rpm's reaching 9k.

Another reason: Insurance

I'm 24, I cant afford to insure anything full-coverage with a V8. It would cost more than my loan payments. My 8 costs around $110/m to fully insure.


I have 1 friend and 1 family member driving RX-8's. (1 auto, 1 6-sp). The family member also owned the first RX-7 ('79).

So yeah I know about the Rotary, I just can't understand how anybody can stand ponying up at the pump like that for a car that is so small and light. It's not like you're getting stump pulling torque or any of the pros from high gas consumption.
 
2007-12-04 11:13:52 AM
the Ford Fusion is the best for its price, very happy I got rid of my civic for it.
 
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