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(Boston Globe)   "NBC streams 'The Office' online with ads and avoids paying writers by calling it a promotion. Yet when a 15-year-old posts an episode online without compensating writers, the studios call it piracy"   ( boston.com) divider line
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8530 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Nov 2007 at 8:41 PM (9 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



262 Comments     (+0 »)
 
 
2007-11-15 06:04:32 PM  
The magic of network TV!!

/supports the WGA
 
D2T
2007-11-15 06:07:38 PM  
"NBC streams 'The Office' online with ads and avoids paying writers by calling it a promotion. Yet when a 15-year-old posts an episode online without compensating writersstudio, the studios call it piracy."
 
2007-11-15 06:27:16 PM  
Canadian Canuck: /supports the WGA

Fark the writers.

/Doesn't support the WGA
 
2007-11-15 06:31:05 PM  
Tatsuma: Canadian Canuck: /supports the WGA

Fark the writers.

/Doesn't support the WGA


I wish they weren't striking. I don't know enough about the situation behind the entire strike, but I do support them in having an increase in pay. Especially since I own a ton of TV shows and watch episodes for specific writers because I know they are good or not.
 
2007-11-15 06:48:35 PM  
Subby might think that headline is img1.fark.com, but it isn't, really. It is just two sides of the same coin.
 
2007-11-15 06:50:10 PM  
Tatsuma: Fark the writers.

What studio do you work for? Cuz pretty much the only people I've heard who have any sympathy for the studios are people who work for one of those production cos.

Everyone else realizes that the media "bumps" on their last collective agreement were a sham and that the new media "bumps" that they're asking for are long overdue.
 
2007-11-15 08:14:30 PM  
Canadian Canuck: I wish they weren't striking. I don't know enough about the situation behind the entire strike, but I do support them in having an increase in pay. Especially since I own a ton of TV shows and watch episodes for specific writers because I know they are good or not.

Basically, the last time they had a strike, they decided to basically give away all of their rights on tv shows in areas that include basically include portable medias (beta, vhs and now dvds) and online distribution (itunes and such). They decided to give that up, thinking that people would never be too interested, and instead get a bigger share on the reruns, etc...

Now, 20 years later, they realize they screwed themselves out of a LOT of money, so now they are striking to get a bigger part of the pie,once again (and keep what they gained by refusing these rights in the first place, obviously)
 
2007-11-15 08:44:25 PM  
This About That: Subby might think that headline is , but it isn't, really. It is just two sides of the same coin.

i second that: we need a 'two sides of the same coin' tag
 
2007-11-15 08:45:26 PM  
I think we should in fact send packets filled with Northrax to the picket lines.
 
2007-11-15 08:45:48 PM  
Well I don't have a clue whats going on between the writers and studios, so I'm going to share my thought: The studios are only trying to give us the shows that we love and watch as we plop our disgusting fatbodies down on the couches. The writers want us to get out more and excersize.

I'm lazy. Fark the writers.
 
2007-11-15 08:46:25 PM  
well, gee, someone is full of shiat... how new!
 
2007-11-15 08:46:47 PM  
Dude, he's 15!
 
2007-11-15 08:47:06 PM  
I hope nobody's saying not to show The Office online. My roommate is a horrid biatch, and I'd rather watch on my home or office computer than on my living room TV.
 
2007-11-15 08:47:51 PM  
The writers claim they agreed to take a pay cut so that the companies could have enough money to put into the fledgling home video market in the 80's. They were promised a cut of the action someday, and that day hasn't come.

I think people ought to support them instead of the production companies because it's just a huge pyramid with the bosses on top and the writers getting bumped up the ass on the bottom.
 
2007-11-15 08:48:42 PM  
these have been up for quite some time and i have been appreciating them
 
2007-11-15 08:48:48 PM  
NBC also owns the copyrights to The Office, so they can stream another show that I won't watch.
 
2007-11-15 08:48:48 PM  
Tatsuma

So you don't believe in contracts? I don't get it. If a contract is ending, why are we not free to negotiate a new one, and there's an impasse, what the hell should be forcing them to continue working? Would you like some command economy or something?
 
2007-11-15 08:51:18 PM  
"NBC streams 'The Office' online with ads and avoids paying writers by calling it a promotion. Yet when a 15-year-old posts an episode online without compensating writers, the studios call it piracy."

Bla bla bla... get over it, hippies. NBC is bigger than you and can do what they want. Show me in the Constitution where it says people have to play nice.
 
2007-11-15 08:51:23 PM  
Tatsuma:

Basically, the last time they had a strike, they decided to basically give away all of their rights on tv shows in areas that include basically include portable medias (beta, vhs and now dvds) and online distribution (itunes and such). They decided to give that up, thinking that people would never be too interested, and instead get a bigger share on the reruns, etc...

Now, 20 years later, they realize they screwed themselves out of a LOT of money, so now they are striking to get a bigger part of the pie,once again (and keep what they gained by refusing these rights in the first place, obviously)


Interesting. Do you have any sources to back up this assertion?
 
2007-11-15 08:52:40 PM  
Speaking of the Office.....
 
2007-11-15 08:52:46 PM  
as soon as that 15 year old put up the 2-3 million to produce the show, the studio will probably call it a promotion also.
 
2007-11-15 08:53:49 PM  
Canadian Canuck - /supports the WGA

Tatsuma - Fark the writers.

/Doesn't support the WGA


Really?

As libertarianism seems to be your conversion du jour, I'd think you'd be fully behind a group of people withholding their labor in the market to negotiate for better compensation.

It's not like anyone is forced to employ WGA writers... The studios just know that most of the best writers are WGA-affiliated, and thus try to maintain good relations with them in order to have access to those writers.
 
2007-11-15 08:53:51 PM  
I say fark the writers until they start coming up with some creative stuff, most of the shows on TV these days are horseshiat. Only good shows are House and Battlestar Galactica, and these aren't even original ideas either
 
2007-11-15 08:55:34 PM  
Michael Colton is a no talent ass clown
 
2007-11-15 08:57:15 PM  
What's Tatsuma doing in this thread? It's not about Israel or Jews.

Oh wait...


/just playing with you Tatsuma
 
2007-11-15 08:58:08 PM  
I watched an episode of The Office I missed online. I laughed at the ads, closed it, went to get the torrent. Sorry NBC, no.
 
2007-11-15 08:58:09 PM  
I was going to write a dramatic comment, but have decided to show solidarity with the writers, and leave this space intentionally blank.
 
2007-11-15 08:58:33 PM  
lazymojo:
Bla bla bla... get over it, hippies. NBC is bigger than you and can do what they want. Show me in the Constitution where it says people have to play nice.

Hippies? Constitution?
WTF? Are you military grade stupid or something?

You don't actually know what a strike is.

/statement
//not a question
 
2007-11-15 08:59:06 PM  
I would support the writers totally...

EXCEPT, while they're striking, everyone working on shows that can no longer film is out of work. This means you, low-paid grip/cameraman/wardrobe supervisor/whatever else. Sorry you can't pay the bills this month; the writers need more money.
 
2007-11-15 08:59:24 PM  
I got an idea, give the writers their raise but lets dock their pay if an episode sucks, this will ensure that the people who write Viva Laughlin will die poor and penniless.
 
2007-11-15 08:59:58 PM  
NBC, when your show starts in 20 seconds.... STOP FARKING SHOWING US PREVIEWS

technicolor-misfit:
Really?

As libertarianism seems to be your conversion du jour, I'd think you'd be fully behind a group of people withholding their labor in the market to negotiate for better compensation.


I said I didn't support them, I didn't say I didn't support their right to

Also, conversion du jour? I've been a proud Libertarian on Fark ever since I joined.

Jimborg: Interesting. Do you have any sources to back up this assertion?

Here's a fairly complete article about the strike
 
2007-11-15 09:00:18 PM  
 
2007-11-15 09:00:30 PM  
Tatsuma: Fark the writers.

There's a joke about Hollywood and Jews in there somewhere, but I'm not feeling snarky enough to make it.

/is for the talent
 
2007-11-15 09:02:08 PM  
tatsuma


well then don't biatch about TV sucking in the near future when scab writers take over with crappy reality TV shows and an abundance of reruns.


your shows wouldn't be shiate if not for the writers. and it's a damn shame the actors get paid alot more than the writers make these shows what they are.
 
2007-11-15 09:02:16 PM  
Generally, I don't support union strikes, but the WGA has got a definite, legitimate case and I hope the best for them. They really got screwed over and deserve way more than they are asking for.
 
2007-11-15 09:02:49 PM  
Tatsuma is the biggest anti-semite on this site. Why bother arguing with someone of such low stature?

I know I don't pat myself on my back after beating a telemarketer in an argument
 
2007-11-15 09:02:57 PM  
The writer of this article is trying to persuade us to support him by pointing to recent works such as "Desperate Housewives" and "Two and a Half Men"?

All he succeeded in doing was reminding me of what a vast wasteland television has become and how little effort and imagination goes into these cookie-cutter shows nowadays. The only shows worth watching are on HBO, period. Go watch some old Twilight Zone episodes and cry at how miserably you have failed to live up to your predecessors, Mr. Writer. All of my sympathy for you has been lost.
 
2007-11-15 09:02:59 PM  
Tatsuma: Fark the writers.

Now Tats, you don't want to perpetuate a stereotype about your people, do you?
 
2007-11-15 09:03:12 PM  
Tatsuma - Basically, the last time they had a strike, they decided to basically give away all of their rights on tv shows in areas that include basically include portable medias (beta, vhs and now dvds) and online distribution (itunes and such). They decided to give that up, thinking that people would never be too interested, and instead get a bigger share on the reruns, etc...

Now, 20 years later, they realize they screwed themselves out of a LOT of money, so now they are striking to get a bigger part of the pie,once again (and keep what they gained by refusing these rights in the first place, obviously)



What did they get by giving away these rights? As I understood it, they gave up a percentage of home video to help the studios build that market, with the assurance that they would get those percentages later... They never did.

Now, they're bargaining for that percentage they gave up and a percentage on "new media." Once bitten, twice shy.

You're starting to come across as one of those libertarians for whom libertarianism basically means "I side with the big fish" regardless of the issue at hand.
 
2007-11-15 09:03:12 PM  
Studios (and Tatsuma) say the WGA are greedy, took a reduction of the residuals for other media formats 20 years ago.

WGA say they took a reduction of the residuals 20 years ago because the studios said they wanted to allow the other media formats to grow, and promised to increase it later but never did. Now instead of 4 cents per DVD, they want 8 cents per DVD.

You make up your own mind which side you want to support.
 
2007-11-15 09:04:22 PM  
Tatsuma: Basically, the last time they had a strike, they decided to basically give away all of their rights on tv shows in areas that include basically include portable medias (beta, vhs and now dvds) and online distribution (itunes and such). They decided to give that up, thinking that people would never be too interested, and instead get a bigger share on the reruns, etc...

Is that basically it, basically?
 
2007-11-15 09:04:35 PM  
Tatsuma: Canadian Canuck: I wish they weren't striking. I don't know enough about the situation behind the entire strike, but I do support them in having an increase in pay. Especially since I own a ton of TV shows and watch episodes for specific writers because I know they are good or not.

Basically, the last time they had a strike, they decided to basically give away all of their rights on tv shows in areas that include basically include portable medias (beta, vhs and now dvds) and online distribution (itunes and such). They decided to give that up, thinking that people would never be too interested, and instead get a bigger share on the reruns, etc...

Now, 20 years later, they realize they screwed themselves out of a LOT of money, so now they are striking to get a bigger part of the pie,once again (and keep what they gained by refusing these rights in the first place, obviously)


Hah, those dirty bastards didn't take into account the internet and DVD distribution 20 years ago because they were being greedy. In 1987, why didn't they realize DVD and the internet were going to be one of the prime methods for watching their work? Foolish I say.
 
2007-11-15 09:05:00 PM  
Klivian: I say fark the writers until they start coming up with some creative stuff, most of the shows on TV these days are horseshiat. Only good shows are House and Battlestar Galactica, and these aren't even original ideas either

Most of America disagrees with you, and the market reflects that. Personally, I can't stand "House," and I've never watched "Battlestar Galactica." I do enjoy "The Office" and "The Daily Show" though.

I don't like broccoli, so I guess it's ok to screw broccoli farmers out of there due.
 
2007-11-15 09:05:27 PM  
technicolor-misfit: online distribution (itunes and such). They decided to give that up, thinking that people would never be too interested, and instead get a bigger share on the reruns, etc...

Now, 20 years later


que?
 
2007-11-15 09:06:00 PM  
We watch, we watch, we watch... we watch channel zero.
 
2007-11-15 09:06:48 PM  
Atomic_Cockroach: I would support the writers totally...

EXCEPT, while they're striking, everyone working on shows that can no longer film is out of work. This means you, low-paid grip/cameraman/wardrobe supervisor/whatever else. Sorry you can't pay the bills this month; the writers need more money.


And what if the cameramen get screwed over, and decide to strike? The fault lies with the studios on this one. They're the reason the strike is continuing.
 
2007-11-15 09:06:55 PM  
Really,

NO ONE CARES.

That is all.
 
axd
2007-11-15 09:07:15 PM  
Tatsuma: Canadian Canuck: I wish they weren't striking. I don't know enough about the situation behind the entire strike, but I do support them in having an increase in pay. Especially since I own a ton of TV shows and watch episodes for specific writers because I know they are good or not.

Basically, the last time they had a strike, they decided to basically give away all of their rights on tv shows in areas that include basically include portable medias (beta, vhs and now dvds) and online distribution (itunes and such). They decided to give that up, thinking that people would never be too interested, and instead get a bigger share on the reruns, etc...

Now, 20 years later, they realize they screwed themselves out of a LOT of money, so now they are striking to get a bigger part of the pie,once again (and keep what they gained by refusing these rights in the first place, obviously)


They screwed themselves? I think most of the people striking now were between 5 and 10 when that whole fiasco went down.
 
2007-11-15 09:08:05 PM  
Shvetz

I missed the part of your post where you pointed out all the creative new ideas writers have had
 
2007-11-15 09:08:16 PM  
Tatsuma - I said I didn't support them, I didn't say I didn't support their right to

Fair enough.

Also, conversion du jour? I've been a proud Libertarian on Fark ever since I joined.


I don't know... I guess I'm wrong. I've just never noticed any such postings before, and within the past few week or so, I've seen several super-libertarian posts that are somewhat reminiscent of when you first converted to/began practicing Judaism and gained your "superjew" reputation.
 
2007-11-15 09:11:08 PM  
Mugato - technicolor-misfit: online distribution (itunes and such). They decided to give that up, thinking that people would never be too interested, and instead get a bigger share on the reruns, etc...

Now, 20 years later

que?



That was Tatsuma... I was quoting him in response to him.
 
2007-11-15 09:12:35 PM  
Tatsuma:

Now, 20 years later, they realize they screwed themselves out of a LOT of money, so now they are striking to get a bigger part of the pie,once again (and keep what they gained by refusing these rights in the first place, obviously)


But the contract is expired... so why wouldn't they use this new contract to negotiate for a bigger piece of the pie? I mean... I'm not clear on why you don't support them... you seem to indicate that they are idiots (ok, I'll stipulate), but you don't really indicate anywhere why it is they shouldn't be trying to negotiate for payments on internet broadcasts...
 
2007-11-15 09:15:16 PM  
Long story short:

The studios are trying to minimize or eliminate the writer's share of revenues/profits.

The studios are not making much money, if any. This is mainly because they pay 'star' actors, producers, and directors a large up front salary combined with a large share of revenues (not profits)

Add to that mixture studios are foolish with the money they spend on terrible movies/shows, and the insane marketing dollars they spend trying to polish a turd, and insane executive salaries, and the portions lawyers/agents eat up and they are lucky to be doing so well. If it weren't for a captive international market, they would have been bankrupt 10 years ago.

Oh and they are squandering new (and frightening to them) opportunities to sell and distribute their media in new forms. They would rather be like the music industry that seeks to retain all the same revenues while legislating them entitlement to new ones.
 
2007-11-15 09:16:27 PM  
Tatsuma: Now, 20 years later, they realize they screwed themselves out of a LOT of money, so now they are striking to get a bigger part of the pie,once again (and keep what they gained by refusing these rights in the first place, obviously)

So, um, what percentage of the writers striking today had one got damn thing to do with those deals 20 years ago? What universe do you live in that labor deals exist in perpetuity? MLBPA? Nope. UAW? Nope. Boeing Engineers? Nope. Safeway Cashiers? Nope. For that matter, who the fark knoew you could make a farkin' nickel on the internet back then? Stupidest. Justification. Ever.
 
2007-11-15 09:16:46 PM  
firefly212: But the contract is expired... so why wouldn't they use this new contract to negotiate for a bigger piece of the pie? I mean... I'm not clear on why you don't support them... you seem to indicate that they are idiots (ok, I'll stipulate), but you don't really indicate anywhere why it is they shouldn't be trying to negotiate for payments on internet broadcasts...

I'm against them leaving the negotiation table and going on strike, not against them negotiating...
 
2007-11-15 09:16:59 PM  
Shvetz: And what if the cameramen get screwed over, and decide to strike? The fault lies with the studios on this one. They're the reason the strike is continuing.

In that situation, the strike would likely be resolved almost before it happened because you CANNOT have filmed television without someone working the camera. On the other hand, as shown by the previous strike, you can get by for a long time without the writers. The rise of reality TV has only made that amount of time even longer. And it's not the writers who will really be hurt by the lost wages and it damn sure isn't the studios. It's the "little people". That just rubs me the wrong way.
 
2007-11-15 09:17:32 PM  
A studio executive was quoted in Entertainment Weekly as saying, "I won't be the one losing my house," which is about as obscene a statement as I've ever heard.

The conglomerates that own the studios now make untold billions of dollars off TV and film. For them to flatly refuse to pay the writers more than 4 cents per DVD and refuse to pay the writers ANYTHING for online media is an appalling joke. For them to hem and haw about whether or not online content might be profitable is ludicrous.

The article speaks truth in this sense: most writers are middle-class people. For every Larry David or Marc Cherry or Chris Carter (and note, these are guys that actually created shows and got a huge cut of the syndication profits), there are thousands of worker bees that actually write the episodes, see very little residuals for their work, and are more often than not unemployed.

/as always, blame the bean counters
 
2007-11-15 09:18:58 PM  
I know WGA writers. They're lower-middle class workers who are getting screwed. Fark the studios. Sign the WGA petition.

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/WGA/
 
2007-11-15 09:19:24 PM  
Tatsuma: I'm against them leaving the negotiation table and going on strike, not against them negotiating...

Yeah, if they were still writing and enabling the studios to make revenue I'm sure they'd have given them a great deal. I think a lot of strikes are avoidable - the UAW routinely farks it up for example - to the point they are strangling their very industry. But this one is justified.
 
2007-11-15 09:19:42 PM  
Oh, and in response to the "screw 'em, they write dogshiat anyway" posts that are bound to come up...

Studios shoulder most of the responsibility for the bland rehashed shiat that makes up much of TV and movies.

Studios want safe and profitable. If 'Friends' is a hit, they want a 'Friends' clone on their network. If a show about an alien is a hit, they want their own alien show.

They don't want things that get too smart because they think the public is too dumb to buy into them. They don't want things that get too edgy because that results in complaints that make advertisers edgy.

Most writers are writers because they enjoy writing... There are certainly a bunch of hacks out there, but most writers want to work on good, inventive stuff... but studios want "tried and true." (i.e. recycled)

So, by saying "fark the writers" you're really throwing your support behind the very people responsible for the suck... and they don't really mind. They'll just throw some cheap reality shows in to fill the time.
 
2007-11-15 09:20:03 PM  
It's the writers' fault, as much as I'd like to blame the big greedy studio.
 
2007-11-15 09:20:54 PM  
The Office sucks
 
2007-11-15 09:20:59 PM  
JohnBigBootay: - to the point they are strangling their very industry. But this one is justified.

I don't know how you can talk about strangling their industry and say that these guys are justified to do what they do.

Not only are they strangling their industry, but they are on the way to have dozens of show cancelled if the strike goes on, screwing dozens and dozens of writers of the money they are currently fighting for, and the money they would have won otherwise
 
2007-11-15 09:21:24 PM  
technicolor-misfit: That was Tatsuma... I was quoting him in response to him.

Yeah I know. Accident.
 
2007-11-15 09:22:10 PM  
"screw 'em, they write dogshiat anyway"

This.
 
obl
2007-11-15 09:22:17 PM  
Now the producers are fighting back on youtube...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6XA4mKyMDY
 
2007-11-15 09:22:36 PM  
Shvetz

Most of America disagrees with you, and the market reflects that.

Most of America will watch whatever is put before them, regardless of quality. Television shows are an inelastic good, there is no good substitute. They could show Man Getting Hit By Football 24 hours a day and people would still watch it. On the topic of The Simpsons, that show has sucked donkey balls for the past 9 years and it still excels in the ratings (ALL of the popular catch phrases, quotes, characters, and episodes are from the first 10 seasons, including MGHBF).

Two of the shows you two are discussing, Battlestar Galactica and The Office, are remakes of previously successful shows. And House, Greys Anatomy, Scrubs, and all those other popular shows are about as original as sliced bread. After I watched Desperate Housewives for the first time, I felt like stabbing myself in the groin repeatedly with a rusty knife so that I'd never bring children into a world incapable of judging quality.

Zero sympathy from me until they give us a NOVEL product worth buying. No, I'm not talking about a new Star Trek spin off or crossing off the title "X-Men" and writing "Heroes" in its place.
 
2007-11-15 09:23:32 PM  
Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: Most of America will watch whatever is put before them, regardless of quality. Television shows are an inelastic good, there is no good substitute. They could show Man Getting Hit By Football 24 hours a day and people would still watch it. On the topic of The Simpsons, that show has sucked donkey balls for the past 9 years and it still excels in the ratings (ALL of the popular catch phrases, quotes, characters, and episodes are from the first 10 seasons, including MGHBF).

Two of the shows you two are discussing, Battlestar Galactica and The Office, are remakes of previously successful shows. And House, Greys Anatomy, Scrubs, and all those other popular shows are about as original as sliced bread. After I watched Desperate Housewives for the first time, I felt like stabbing myself in the groin repeatedly with a rusty knife so that I'd never bring children into a world incapable of judging quality.

Zero sympathy from me until they give us a NOVEL product worth buying. No, I'm not talking about a new Star Trek spin off or crossing off the title "X-Men" and writing "Heroes" in its place.


PUSHING. DAISIES.
 
2007-11-15 09:25:35 PM  
bonefish: I watched an episode of The Office I missed online. I laughed at the ads, closed it, went to get the torrent. Sorry NBC, no.

This.
 
2007-11-15 09:25:54 PM  
Klivian: Shvetz

I missed the part of your post where you pointed out all the creative new ideas writers have had


What, you think "House" and "Battlestar Galactica" is so original and well-written? They suck, and you suck for watching those shows. At the end of the day though, you still watch them. And in order for that to happen, somebody needs to write them. That person is called a "writer." There is a demand for their services, whether you want them personally, or not.
 
2007-11-15 09:26:19 PM  
Actually when a 15 yr old posts it, its called legal. SCOTUS declared that you may record off air television shows back in the 1980's.
 
2007-11-15 09:26:29 PM  
Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox

Your screenname has given me an idea for a show

"Star Fox: The Series"

Not a new idea, but I'd watch that

/do a barrel roll
 
2007-11-15 09:27:31 PM  
Shvetz

Reread the part of my post where I acknowledged that they were not new ideas, thanks for playing
 
2007-11-15 09:27:31 PM  
bonefish: I watched an episode of The Office I missed online. I laughed at the ads, closed it, went to get the torrent. Sorry NBC, no.

"Waaaah, I'm getting something for free, but I have to sit through 30 seconds of ads, so I'm going to go and break the law, because I'm entitled to have everything I want without paying for it"
 
zz9
2007-11-15 09:28:39 PM  
Basically, the last time they had a strike, they decided to basically give away all of their rights on tv shows in areas that include basically include portable medias (beta, vhs and now dvds) and online distribution (itunes and such). They decided to give that up, thinking that people would never be too interested, and instead get a bigger share on the reruns, etc...

Now, 20 years later, they realize they screwed themselves out of a LOT of money, so now they are striking to get a bigger part of the pie,once again (and keep what they gained by refusing these rights in the first place, obviously)


You fail. They never got a bigger share of reruns for agreeing to an 80% cut in video residuals. They agreed to this cut because they believed the studios when they said VHS was expensive to make, transport etc and believed the studios when they said that if it did start making money they'd agree to an increase.
The WGA made a mistake. They lived with it and honored the contract.
But now that contract has expired. They want a better deal this time and are less willing to believe the studios.

I say fark the writers until they start coming up with some creative stuff, most of the shows on TV these days are horseshiat. Only good shows are House and Battlestar Galactica, and these aren't even original ideas either

Writers come up with new ideas every day. Writers would far prefer creating a new idea than rehashing an old one but, newsflash, writers don't have the power to greenlight shows! The studios, and networks, do!
Why blame the writers for what's not within their power to control?


EXCEPT, while they're striking, everyone working on shows that can no longer film is out of work. This means you, low-paid grip/cameraman/wardrobe supervisor/whatever else. Sorry you can't pay the bills this month; the writers need more money.

Many of these people do support the writers. The Teamsters, for one, support them because they get residuals as well to pay for their pension fund.

I got an idea, give the writers their raise but lets dock their pay if an episode sucks, this will ensure that the people who write Viva Laughlin will die poor and penniless.

This is exactly what it will do. If a show is unpopular and no one watches it or buys DVDs then the writers, and actors, the studio etc will get less in residuals.
 
2007-11-15 09:29:40 PM  
Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: Zero sympathy from me until they give us a NOVEL product worth buying.

Obligatory mention.


/Fark sure has taken a turn for the whiny since the WGA strike
 
2007-11-15 09:29:52 PM  
This guy wrote "The Comebacks." Did you see that movie? Suffice to say this guy should not be the group spokesman.

That being said, I side with the writers. They were told they were going to receive their bigger piece of the pie once the home video market matured. The market matured but they didn't get a new piece. At least that's the situation I was told.

Of course, the only show I watch is South Park and I don't think Trey and Matt are striking. So this doesn't affect me one way or the other.
 
2007-11-15 09:30:32 PM  
Atomic_Cockroach: Shvetz: And what if the cameramen get screwed over, and decide to strike? The fault lies with the studios on this one. They're the reason the strike is continuing.

In that situation, the strike would likely be resolved almost before it happened because you CANNOT have filmed television without someone working the camera. On the other hand, as shown by the previous strike, you can get by for a long time without the writers. The rise of reality TV has only made that amount of time even longer. And it's not the writers who will really be hurt by the lost wages and it damn sure isn't the studios. It's the "little people". That just rubs me the wrong way.


Wait, so the cameramen can get work on reality shows? What's the problem again?
 
2007-11-15 09:30:59 PM  
technicolor-misfit

Most writers are writers because they enjoy writing... There are certainly a bunch of hacks out there, but most writers want to work on good, inventive stuff... but studios want "tried and true." (i.e. recycled)

So, by saying "fark the writers" you're really throwing your support behind the very people responsible for the suck... and they don't really mind. They'll just throw some cheap reality shows in to fill the time.


Or maybe we can condemn an industry as a whole that treats us like we're all retarded sheep. I don't support the studios or the writers who made the studios rich with garbage. They're all responsible for what they produce and the Nuremberg defense isn't going to get them any sympathy for shiat writing.

/Apology for the borderline Godwin
 
2007-11-15 09:31:24 PM  
Hmm, writers or corporate greedheads. Wow, that's a tough call. I think I will side with the writers.

/"When they came for the Daily Show residuals, I said nothing." etc.
 
2007-11-15 09:31:29 PM  
zz9: Many of these people do support the writers. The Teamsters, for one, support them because they get residuals as well to pay for their pension fund.

I think it's closer to "some" than many. Not everyone who works in film and TV are n a union. But what are they going to say, they don't support them?
 
2007-11-15 09:32:27 PM  
Tatsuma: JohnBigBootay: - to the point they are strangling their very industry. But this one is justified.

I don't know how you can talk about strangling their industry and say that these guys are justified to do what they do.

Not only are they strangling their industry, but they are on the way to have dozens of show cancelled if the strike goes on, screwing dozens and dozens of writers of the money they are currently fighting for, and the money they would have won otherwise


I'll let you be the judge - how's the auto industry doing in the world arena vs the US entertainment industry? I see lots of blockbusters playing in other languages worldwide when I travel. The whole world knows Arnold Schwarzennegger and Kramer from Seinfeld and Homer Simpson and Tom Hanks.... I don't see a whole hell of a lot of Saturns or Ford Explorers when I'm overseas.
 
2007-11-15 09:33:15 PM  
JavyLopezc08: The American version of the Office sucks

FTFY
 
2007-11-15 09:33:20 PM  
The big 3 networks rake in billions. Why should network executives hog all the cash?
 
2007-11-15 09:36:38 PM  
Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: Shvetz

Most of America disagrees with you, and the market reflects that.

Most of America will watch whatever is put before them, regardless of quality. Television shows are an inelastic good, there is no good substitute. They could show Man Getting Hit By Football 24 hours a day and people would still watch it. On the topic of The Simpsons, that show has sucked donkey balls for the past 9 years and it still excels in the ratings (ALL of the popular catch phrases, quotes, characters, and episodes are from the first 10 seasons, including MGHBF).

Two of the shows you two are discussing, Battlestar Galactica and The Office, are remakes of previously successful shows. And House, Greys Anatomy, Scrubs, and all those other popular shows are about as original as sliced bread. After I watched Desperate Housewives for the first time, I felt like stabbing myself in the groin repeatedly with a rusty knife so that I'd never bring children into a world incapable of judging quality.

Zero sympathy from me until they give us a NOVEL product worth buying. No, I'm not talking about a new Star Trek spin off or crossing off the title "X-Men" and writing "Heroes" in its place.


Sorry, but some shows do well, and others do not. This is because people like different things. Again, I don't like broccoli. It tastes bad. Should I be ok with broccoli farmers getting ripped off? You want "good" writing? Why don't you write something? Oh, it's because you can't.
 
2007-11-15 09:36:52 PM  
Shvetz: In that situation, the strike would likely be resolved almost before it happened because you CANNOT have filmed television without someone working the camera. On the other hand, as shown by the previous strike, you can get by for a long time without the writers. The rise of reality TV has only made that amount of time even longer. And it's not the writers who will really be hurt by the lost wages and it damn sure isn't the studios. It's the "little people". That just rubs me the wrong way.

Wait, so the cameramen can get work on reality shows? What's the problem again?


Um...what? I was using cameramen as one of several examples in my original post. The point was that everyone on the shows is out of work including all the below the line workers, most of whom get no residuals (unlike the striking writers). But just for the record, the reality shows already have cameramen. So nope, no work there.
 
2007-11-15 09:36:59 PM  
i11.tinypic.com
 
2007-11-15 09:37:14 PM  
MonkeyBoy666

Obligatory mention.

/Fark sure has taken a turn for the whiny since the WGA strike


Having an opinion is not whining. In fact, you're whining about my purported whining. So stop whining, whiner.

Anyway, it doesn't change the fact that TV is crap. I do own a television. I watch HBO on it and play the occasional video game (which are getting better over time, not worse). Excuse me for supporting quality writing and production and not giving money to greedy hacks who think we're all morons.
 
2007-11-15 09:38:51 PM  
Tatsuma: I'm against them leaving the negotiation table and going on strike, not against them negotiating...

Why do you give a fark? Are they interrupting your favorite TV show?
Unless you were there, how the hell do you know the negotiations didn't fail because the Media Co's refused to come close to what they wanted?
 
2007-11-15 09:39:29 PM  
Klivian: Shvetz

Reread the part of my post where I acknowledged that they were not new ideas, thanks for playing


Yes, but you still watch them. Then, you complain that all television is horrible, so the writers deserve to get screwed. If you actually thought it was so bad, why do you watch it?
 
2007-11-15 09:39:36 PM  
Tatsuma

Logical fallacy. Just because someone torrents their TV shows doesn't mean they think they're entitled to it. Most people do it because they simply don't give a shiat, and will take whatever options they have. They don't care about "entitlement"; they care about "watching their TV show."
 
2007-11-15 09:40:45 PM  
Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox - Most of America will watch whatever is put before them, regardless of quality.

That's not quite true... It's close to being true, and I know at times it sure seems like it's true... but it's not.

People watch TV because it's entertaining, even if only mildly so... But, they really will tune out, and tune out in droves, when something ceases to be entertaining.

It's why the daytime talk craze of 20 years or so ago ultimately fizzled. At a certain point, it was all talk, all day... because people ate it up at first. But then, it got old and was just the same "My father in law is my baby's father" eight times a day on every channel, and people quit watching.

That's why I don't think the writers have too much to fear from reality shows. Last time, reality shows were kind of novel, and people were intrigued by them.... but that's dying.

We're already into the narrow end of that curve. There's just only so many different ways you can frame "Survivor" (in a barber shop! in a clinic! in a bakery!) before people get sick of watching "Survivor."

Moroever... reality shows DO NOT sell videos, and they barely even work in reruns. DVD sales are a big market, and by losing scripted programming, the studios have nothing to sell. The networks take the biggest piece of the pie on advertising, so to really cash in, a studio has to bank on some shows going into syndication or selling on DVD.

I think the writers have some real leverage here.
 
2007-11-15 09:40:47 PM  
not just a logical fallacy. Just looking at the sentence you can tell that someone is desperate to create outrage.
 
2007-11-15 09:40:54 PM  
Most writers are not wealthy. That's why they round out their income with varied article submissions to all sorts of publications/magazines, take on technical writing jobs when they can, submit to newspapers and do ghost writing all while working on their great American novel.

It's tough, it's competitive, and it is their chosen career.

/quit whining, start typing.
 
2007-11-15 09:41:12 PM  
tkirby: Not the Daily Show

That was AWESOME!
 
2007-11-15 09:41:24 PM  
Atomic_Cockroach: Shvetz: In that situation, the strike would likely be resolved almost before it happened because you CANNOT have filmed television without someone working the camera. On the other hand, as shown by the previous strike, you can get by for a long time without the writers. The rise of reality TV has only made that amount of time even longer. And it's not the writers who will really be hurt by the lost wages and it damn sure isn't the studios. It's the "little people". That just rubs me the wrong way.

Wait, so the cameramen can get work on reality shows? What's the problem again?

Um...what? I was using cameramen as one of several examples in my original post. The point was that everyone on the shows is out of work including all the below the line workers, most of whom get no residuals (unlike the striking writers). But just for the record, the reality shows already have cameramen. So nope, no work there.


So... these were cameramen that wouldn't be working if the reality show wasn't on the air? And the reality show wouldn't be on, if the written shows were on? Why do one group of cameramen deserve work, and not the others?
 
2007-11-15 09:41:46 PM  
Spontaneous Defenstration: Logical fallacy. Just because someone torrents their TV shows doesn't mean they think they're entitled to it. Most people do it because they simply don't give a shiat, and will take whatever options they have. They don't care about "entitlement"; they care about "watching their TV show."

I refuse to believe you typed that with a straight face. That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about and that's feeling entitled.

TV shows cost a lot of money, and that's why there are ads, or that you can buy them on DVD. When you refuse to buy them on DVD or watch them on tv with ads, but you still want to see them so you find a way to watch them illegally, that makes you an entitled douchebag.
 
2007-11-15 09:41:53 PM  
Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: Two of the shows you two are discussing, Battlestar Galactica and The Office, are remakes of previously successful shows.

Um Battlestar Galactica is far better written than its predecessor which only lasted one and a half seasons. As shows go it really wasn't that successful.

Conversely I don't think the new Bionic Woman will last one season. Even compared to it's cheesy 70's counterpart, the plotlines and dialogue are fatally awful.
 
2007-11-15 09:42:35 PM  
Shvetz

Sorry, but some shows do well, and others do not. This is because people like different things. Again, I don't like broccoli. It tastes bad. Should I be ok with broccoli farmers getting ripped off? You want "good" writing? Why don't you write something? Oh, it's because you can't.

Alright, in accordance with your logic, you are hereby barred from criticizing the quality or price of any product or service for the rest of your life. Including the ones you essentially have to buy, like oil and electricity, due to their inelasticity and effective oligopolies in place. Either buy from them or do it better yourself. Never mind all the economic or practical factors barring you from entry into the market, or your personal career and lifestyle choices. Remember, I don't want to see any criticism from you on Fark, ever. It's just your opinion and it doesn't count.
 
2007-11-15 09:44:37 PM  
Shvetz: So... these were cameramen that wouldn't be working if the reality show wasn't on the air? And the reality show wouldn't be on, if the written shows were on? Why do one group of cameramen deserve work, and not the others?

I'm trying my damnedest, but I can't puzzle out how anything you just said relates to anything I've said in this thread.

/Except for the tenuous connection that I happened to use the word cameraman.
 
2007-11-15 09:44:59 PM  
Tatsuma: TV shows cost a lot of money, and that's why there are ads, or that you can buy them on DVD. When you refuse to buy them on DVD or watch them on tv with ads, but you still want to see them so you find a way to watch them illegally, that makes you an entitled douchebag.

Yes, every Tivo owner in the world is an entitlement riddled douchebag.
 
2007-11-15 09:45:23 PM  
PS: I think it is awesome that David Letterman(p) is paying all of his staff and crew for the rest of the year whether they work or not. It would be nice to see some other stars do that as well.
 
2007-11-15 09:46:19 PM  
tkirby: Not the Daily Show

I just watched that, and all I could say was

members.aol.com
 
2007-11-15 09:46:38 PM  
Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: Shvetz

Sorry, but some shows do well, and others do not. This is because people like different things. Again, I don't like broccoli. It tastes bad. Should I be ok with broccoli farmers getting ripped off? You want "good" writing? Why don't you write something? Oh, it's because you can't.

Alright, in accordance with your logic, you are hereby barred from criticizing the quality or price of any product or service for the rest of your life. Including the ones you essentially have to buy, like oil and electricity, due to their inelasticity and effective oligopolies in place. Either buy from them or do it better yourself. Never mind all the economic or practical factors barring you from entry into the market, or your personal career and lifestyle choices. Remember, I don't want to see any criticism from you on Fark, ever. It's just your opinion and it doesn't count.


It's fine if you criticize the writers, and even take the studio's side in this argument. Don't say that it's ok to screw them, since they only put out crap, and then watch that crap yourself. You are literally "buying" the writer's service, by sitting their and watching their shows.
 
2007-11-15 09:46:50 PM  
ReverendJasen: Yes, every Tivo owner in the world is an entitlement riddled douchebag.

Last I checked, people with Tivo still payed for the broadcast
 
2007-11-15 09:46:54 PM  
"Curb Your Enthusiasm" and "Tell Me You Love Me" both just had their season finales. I can ride this out.
 
2007-11-15 09:47:51 PM  
TrixieDelite: "Curb Your Enthusiasm" and "Tell Me You Love Me" both just had their season finales. I can ride this out.

Yeah, you think so?

Well what about The Shield? If the strike goes on, no finale.
 
2007-11-15 09:48:34 PM  
Fart_Machine

Um Battlestar Galactica is far better written than its predecessor which only lasted one and a half seasons. As shows go it really wasn't that successful.


Granted, Battlestar Galactica isn't the best example for that reason, but it's still an instance of writers just taking a concept, characters, and plotline from an old show rather than coming up with a new, creative concept. It must have been popular enough, at least as a cultural icon, because it did wonders for the new show's publicity.
 
2007-11-15 09:48:40 PM  
Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox - Or maybe we can condemn an industry as a whole that treats us like we're all retarded sheep. I don't support the studios or the writers who made the studios rich with garbage. They're all responsible for what they produce and the Nuremberg defense isn't going to get them any sympathy for shiat writing.

/Apology for the borderline Godwin


Yeah, or maybe they have to earn a living too, and being a writer on a shiat show, in which you can slip in a few moments of real quality, beats not working at all, or selling high-tops at Just For Feet.

Sure it's easy to say "demand your boss allow you to produce quality entertainment or refuse to participate" when it's not your livelihood on the line.

You've never had to compromise with an employer because at the end of the day, he's the one who signs the checks?

And yeah, the Nuremberg reference is way off... They're not snatching people out of their homes to beat, brutalize, starve and massacre them... They're making mediocre TV that no one is forced to watch.

And if you've got something better, try to get it on air.
 
2007-11-15 09:49:03 PM  
Tatsuma: ReverendJasen: Yes, every Tivo owner in the world is an entitlement riddled douchebag.

Last I checked, people with Tivo still payed for the broadcast


I pay my cable company every month.
Yet you just said I was an entitled douchebag if I downloaded a TV show.
Which is it?
 
2007-11-15 09:49:35 PM  
Shvetz

So by your logic, if an employee at a company has always produced substandard work, when they go to their boss for a raise, they should be given it, just because they do the work, and that performance shouldn't factor into the benefits they receive?
 
2007-11-15 09:49:49 PM  
Tatsuma: TrixieDelite: "Curb Your Enthusiasm" and "Tell Me You Love Me" both just had their season finales. I can ride this out.

Yeah, you think so?

Well what about The Shield? If the strike goes on, no finale.


So what? You feel like the writers should be forced to write finale to The Shield or something? What are you, some kind of entitled douchebag?
 
2007-11-15 09:50:01 PM  
Atomic_Cockroach: Shvetz: So... these were cameramen that wouldn't be working if the reality show wasn't on the air? And the reality show wouldn't be on, if the written shows were on? Why do one group of cameramen deserve work, and not the others?

AC: I'm trying my damnedest, but I can't puzzle out how anything you just said relates to anything I've said in this thread.

/Except for the tenuous connection that I happened to use the word cameraman.


You're saying that the strike is putting cameramen out of work. Well, that's not true. There are now cameramen working on the reality show, instead of the scripted show. Maybe different cameramen, but still, there's no less work.
 
2007-11-15 09:50:57 PM  
SockMonkeyHolocaust: We watch, we watch, we watch... we watch channel zero.

Weird, I just listened to that album for the first time today. Good stuff.

On the issue, though, I support the writers 100%. They aren't going against a contract that's in place; they're refusing to sign a new contract that would fark them over in the future. Would you take a job that didn't pay you for all your work? I think a lot of people are reacting negatively to the WGA because they see the members as all primetime show writers, making six figures, but it's like the music industry - for every signed musician, there are dozens who are just scraping by.

And furthermore, people should like residuals - it rewards good writing by basing earnings on how popular a show or movie is. I know it's not a perfect system (see: Two and a Half Men), but at least whoever came up with the geico cavemen show isn't getting any extra money.
 
2007-11-15 09:51:05 PM  
The magic of advertising.
 
2007-11-15 09:51:11 PM  
Tatsuma
"Waaaah, I'm getting something for free, but I have to sit through 30 seconds of ads, so I'm going to go and break the law, because I'm entitled to have everything I want without paying for it"

I don't have a problem with ads, just lame pop-up quality ads. Combine that with poor video and audio and voila! Who wants to watch that, honestly!? I tried to catch the episode I missed on air but their execution is severely flawed and thus they shouldn't get a-n-y-thing for it.
 
2007-11-15 09:52:02 PM  
ReverendJasen: I pay my cable company every month.
Yet you just said I was an entitled douchebag if I downloaded a TV show.
Which is it?


No, that's not what I said. I Said that you were an entitled douchebag if you didn't pay for it, downloaded it in an illegal manner and watched it.
 
2007-11-15 09:53:00 PM  
Klivian: Shvetz

So by your logic, if an employee at a company has always produced substandard work, when they go to their boss for a raise, they should be given it, just because they do the work, and that performance shouldn't factor into the benefits they receive?


Not at all. I'm working on the assumption that the studios owe the writers for the "promotions" (full-length episodes w/ ad revenue). It bothers me when people say the writers don't deserve anything, because they don't like what they put out (ESPECIALLY when they also watch what the writers put out).
 
2007-11-15 09:53:26 PM  
Shvetz: You're saying that the strike is putting cameramen out of work. Well, that's not true. There are now cameramen working on the reality show, instead of the scripted show. Maybe different cameramen, but still, there's no less work.

Ah, I see what you're getting at. And you're wrong. See each show has it's own cameramen. So if show A goes off the air because the writers aren't writing and show B stays on because it doesn't need writers, the cameraman from show A can't just go work on show B; he's pretty much just SOL. Now do you see what I mean?
 
2007-11-15 09:53:28 PM  
bonefish: I don't have a problem with ads, just lame pop-up quality ads. Combine that with poor video and audio and voila! Who wants to watch that, honestly!? I tried to catch the episode I missed on air but their execution is severely flawed and thus they shouldn't get a-n-y-thing for it.

Well, if you are paying for NBC and just missed the show, I don't care.

I only think that if you didn't pay for it AND you download it illegally. If you paid for it but didn't watch, that's another subject
 
2007-11-15 09:53:31 PM  
Shvetz
Don't say that it's ok to screw them, since they only put out crap, and then watch that crap yourself.

That's what I'm saying. If you watch a show and the writing is poor quality, you should just shut if off. I watch HBO because a lot of those shows are excellent. I watch movies when they get excellent reviews. I play video games because the effort put into their production and story writing just gets better and better. I don't watch trash TV (besides the first episode or two) because I don't want to support poor writing in the future. People who just watch anything shouldn't complain because they're the ones perpetuating the system they dislike.
 
2007-11-15 09:54:33 PM  
I watched the Office about a week ago online and the only complaints I have are that the ads bypassed my adblocker, and they played the same farking 3 commercials every goddamn 6 minutes. That shiat gets OLD.
 
2007-11-15 09:54:44 PM  
Shvetz

I never said I was against them receiving compensation for their work, I said I was against them getting MORE compensation for substandard product.

Give me a way to support the writers from the shows that I like directly, and I will do that.
 
2007-11-15 09:56:07 PM  
Atomic_Cockroach: Shvetz: You're saying that the strike is putting cameramen out of work. Well, that's not true. There are now cameramen working on the reality show, instead of the scripted show. Maybe different cameramen, but still, there's no less work.

Ah, I see what you're getting at. And you're wrong. See each show has it's own cameramen. So if show A goes off the air because the writers aren't writing and show B stays on because it doesn't need writers, the cameraman from show A can't just go work on show B; he's pretty much just SOL. Now do you see what I mean?


Yes, but the cameraman on show B now has work. What about the cameramen on "Bionic Woman?" That show is going to get canceled (I assume). Should they keep it on the air, so the cameramen for that show stay employed?
 
2007-11-15 09:56:45 PM  
Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: Granted, Battlestar Galactica isn't the best example for that reason, but it's still an instance of writers just taking a concept, characters, and plotline from an old show rather than coming up with a new, creative concept. It must have been popular enough, at least as a cultural icon, because it did wonders for the new show's publicity.

Except that they re-imagined the entire series from the ground up. I take it you've never seen the show? It doesn't really compare that much to the original which also ripped off elements of Star Trek and Star Wars.
 
2007-11-15 09:58:43 PM  
Too much power to the corporations, too little power to the people.
Too much power to the owners, too little power to the producers.
Too much power to the capital, too little power to the work.
Too much power to the few, too little power for the many.
Too much oligarchy, too little democracy.
Too many screwed people, too many let themselves be screwed again and again...
 
2007-11-15 09:59:00 PM  
Guess what you basement dwelling losers...YOU DON'T GET TO HAVE EVERYTHING THE farkING WAY YOU THINK IT SHOULD BE!!!!!

end rant
 
2007-11-15 10:00:10 PM  
Tatsuma:
No, that's not what I said. I Said that you were an entitled douchebag if you didn't pay for it, downloaded it in an illegal manner and watched it.


So anyone who gets cable TV is allowed to download without fear of being a douchebag.
Good to know.
Too bad they still call me a dirty pirate for doing it though.
 
2007-11-15 10:00:27 PM  
Wow. Digital media, via the internet. Must be a conspiracy to deny writers money...couldn't possibly be that writers are striking BECAUSE this is the direction all mass media are already heading.

Welcome to 10 years ago.
 
2007-11-15 10:00:42 PM  
Klivian: Shvetz

I never said I was against them receiving compensation for their work, I said I was against them getting MORE compensation for substandard product.

Give me a way to support the writers from the shows that I like directly, and I will do that.


It's called the ratings system. It's kind of a democratic process. That "Cavemen" show? It's crappy. Not a lot of people watched the second episode. Advertisers wouldn't pay much for ads during "Cavemen." The show gets canceled (maybe it already has). The more people like a show, the more people will watch. Advertisers will pay more, and the studios like that. If you don't like any shows at all, fine, but most of America disagrees with you.
 
2007-11-15 10:00:47 PM  
Fart_Machine

Except that they re-imagined the entire series from the ground up. I take it you've never seen the show? It doesn't really compare that much to the original which also ripped off elements of Star Trek and Star Wars.


I took out the first season on DVD from my school's library. It was alright. The writing wasn't anything special, but the actors and special effects made up for it. What you've said is true and a credit to the show, but it doesn't change the fact that it's far, far easier to rip off an old concept and build on it (with the free publicity to boot) than to come up with something fresh and inspired.
 
2007-11-15 10:01:05 PM  
So, Tats, when you're done biatching about copyright infringement (which has fark-all to do with the article), I'd like you to explain why you feel so strongly about the writer's strike that you'd wish them dead:

Tatsuma: I think we should in fact send packets filled with Northrax to the picket lines.

Did one of the writers kill and eat your cat or something?
 
2007-11-15 10:01:58 PM  
Gregory F. Stuart: Did one of the writers kill and eat your cat or something?

That was a joke from tonight's 30 Rock.
 
2007-11-15 10:04:03 PM  
ReverendJasen: Tatsuma:
No, that's not what I said. I Said that you were an entitled douchebag if you didn't pay for it, downloaded it in an illegal manner and watched it.

So anyone who gets cable TV is allowed to download without fear of being a douchebag.
Good to know.
Too bad they still call me a dirty pirate for doing it though.


Thank you. Glad someone beat me to that.
 
2007-11-15 10:04:27 PM  
Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: What you've said is true and a credit to the show, but it doesn't change the fact that it's far, far easier to rip off an old concept and build on it (with the free publicity to boot) than to come up with something fresh and inspired.


Except that there really isn't anything that hasn't been done before.
 
2007-11-15 10:04:33 PM  
Klivian: Shvetz

I never said I was against them receiving compensation for their work, I said I was against them getting MORE compensation for substandard product.

Give me a way to support the writers from the shows that I like directly, and I will do that.


I forgot to add that writers make a direct percentage from the ad revenue. The writers for "Cavemen" don't make as much as the writers for "CSI," or some other higher rated show. Now if more people watch content online (a growing trend), writers make no money from that ad revenue. "Cavemen" writers make the same $ for online revenue as every other show. Not good.
 
2007-11-15 10:04:59 PM  
Atomic_Cockroach: I would support the writers totally...

EXCEPT, while they're striking, everyone working on shows that can no longer film is out of work. This means you, low-paid grip/cameraman/wardrobe supervisor/whatever else. Sorry you can't pay the bills this month; the writers need more money.


That's a copout. You could say that about every strike.
 
2007-11-15 10:06:22 PM  
Tatsuma: TrixieDelite: "Curb Your Enthusiasm" and "Tell Me You Love Me" both just had their season finales. I can ride this out.

Yeah, you think so?

Well what about The Shield? If the strike goes on, no finale.


I don't watch "The Shield." I watch local news, NBC national news, and the two HBO shows above. I occasionally watch "Dirty Jobs" because I think Mike Rowe is Christmas on a stick. I don't know if he does his own writing or not, but the boy has my Nielsen vote. He could stand on a log and sing Kumbaya for an hour and I'd still watch.
 
2007-11-15 10:06:58 PM  
Tatsuma: ReverendJasen: I pay my cable company every month.
Yet you just said I was an entitled douchebag if I downloaded a TV show.
Which is it?

No, that's not what I said. I Said that you were an entitled douchebag if you didn't pay for it, downloaded it in an illegal manner and watched it.


Also, please note that network shows like The Office are broadcast, for free, over the air. And as long as paying for cable entitles me to commercial free content, I'd really like them to get on that for all T.V. shows on cable. Ads are boring, annoying, and at least on cable, painfully loud at random intervals.
 
2007-11-15 10:07:01 PM  
perennial fark-up: NBC also owns the copyrights to The Office, so they can stream another show that I won't watch.

I like streaming shows. I have DVR but it's loaded with stuff the mrs fanblades has yet to watch 2 weeks after they were recorded. As far as NBC streams compared to regular TV, it's somewhat better as I only have to watch ONE commercial versus EIGHT of the same repeating ones on each and every break in the show. That and I can resize the window, write emails, and go-a-farking on the same screen.

Am I for or against the writers? I honestly don't have an opinion. I have read in places that the networks are reviving old shows that didn't make it and pushing plans for a shiatload reality TV shows as they are unscripted (so we assume) and do not require writers.

So's I go back to my computer and pop in a DVD of 2001 A Space Oddesy, Clockwork Orange or some shiat like Super Troopers for the 1400th time.....
 
2007-11-15 10:07:31 PM  
Shvetz: Yes, but the cameraman on show B now has work. What about the cameramen on "Bionic Woman?" That show is going to get canceled (I assume). Should they keep it on the air, so the cameramen for that show stay employed?

A show is always in danger of getting canceled, that's part of the risk you take working in a field like showbiz. My gripe was with one part of the production team putting the whole team out of work (particularly the members who get paid - at best - about half of what the lowest paid member of the striking group makes).

Now since you've latched onto cameramen, let's grant that if a strike forced a sudden glut of reality TV shows, they'd be able to find work on newly greenlit reality shows. What about everyone else? How about the costume crew? Set construction teams? Special effects artists? Do you really think there's another readily available job out there for everyone who's going to be affected by this?

To reiterate my point: This is not the same as if a show got canceled. The writers have stopped production because they feel they aren't getting enough money. Fine, whatever, that's their right. But the people who will be hurt by it are the ones who make even less than the writers. Ultimately, whatever the outcome, both the writers and the studios will come out of this strike fine. Can the same be said for everyone who worked on a now-suspended show? Probably not.
 
2007-11-15 10:07:56 PM  
Tatsuma: That was a joke from tonight's 30 Rock.

Yes, but it's clear you have strong feelings about this writer's strike. A visceral reaction to it, even. What have these writers personally done to you to piss you off so much?
 
2007-11-15 10:09:45 PM  
Shvetz: "Cavemen" writers make the same $ for online revenue as every other show. Not good.

I hope they're getting paid in hairy women, clubs and skins.
 
2007-11-15 10:09:46 PM  
mc4_a:
That's a copout. You could say that about every strike.


You can say that about just about every strike.
 
2007-11-15 10:09:48 PM  
TrixieDelite: I don't watch "The Shield." I watch local news, NBC national news, and the two HBO shows above. I occasionally watch "Dirty Jobs" because I think Mike Rowe is Christmas on a stick. I don't know if he does his own writing or not, but the boy has my Nielsen vote. He could stand on a log and sing Kumbaya for an hour and I'd still watch.

Why is Mike Rowe so popular? I mean, I've watched Dirty Jobs and he seems like a pretty good guy, but he has FAN BOYS. Why is this?
 
2007-11-15 10:10:12 PM  
"NBC streams 'The Office' online with ads and avoids paying writers by calling it a promotion. Yet when a 15-year-old posts an episode online without compensating writers, the studios call it piracy."

I call the latter "undocumented downloading". ^_^
 
2007-11-15 10:10:30 PM  
mc4_a: Atomic_Cockroach: I would support the writers totally...

EXCEPT, while they're striking, everyone working on shows that can no longer film is out of work. This means you, low-paid grip/cameraman/wardrobe supervisor/whatever else. Sorry you can't pay the bills this month; the writers need more money.

That's a copout. You could say that about every strike.


A copout? Note: I didn't say I supported the studios. Just that I couldn't totally get behind the writers either.
 
2007-11-15 10:10:50 PM  
TrixieDelite: I occasionally watch "Dirty Jobs" because I think Mike Rowe is Christmas on a stick. I don't know if he does his own writing or not, but the boy has my Nielsen vote. He could stand on a log and sing Kumbaya for an hour and I'd still watch.

And since he's a former opera singer, he would sound marvelous doing it!

/loves Dirty Jobs
 
2007-11-15 10:10:51 PM  
Fart_Machine: Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: Granted, Battlestar Galactica isn't the best example for that reason, but it's still an instance of writers just taking a concept, characters, and plotline from an old show rather than coming up with a new, creative concept. It must have been popular enough, at least as a cultural icon, because it did wonders for the new show's publicity.

Except that they re-imagined the entire series from the ground up. I take it you've never seen the show? It doesn't really compare that much to the original which also ripped off elements of Star Trek and Star Wars.


Meh. I still watch it. Even though they made Starbuck a chick this time...I'm pretty easy when it comes to sci fi whoring. I can tolerate the crappy stuff.
 
2007-11-15 10:11:02 PM  
The "fark the writers, it's all garbage" people haven't really thought this through.

Even if it weren't the producers' fault that mostly crap shows get on the air (it is), how would not paying writers their fair share help at all? If you want somebody to do a better job or attract better people...you make sure they're not going to be fairly compensated?

Also, the quality is irrelevant. They're not asking for massive fixed amounts of money (like executives get), they're asking for a cut of how much money is actually coming in. So what if it's crap? If it brings the cash, the people who helped make it deserve to negotiate their fair share.

Blame the idiots who watch it, or even the producers that decided to show it to them, but to blame it on the people who get hired write it and really don't decide what ideas get aired which ones don't is just stupid.
 
2007-11-15 10:11:02 PM  
Yeah_Right: With writing like that... you'd make a mint in Hollywood...

I do.
 
2007-11-15 10:11:13 PM  
Atomic_Cockroach: Now since you've latched onto cameramen, let's grant that if a strike forced a sudden glut of reality TV shows, they'd be able to find work on newly greenlit reality shows. What about everyone else? How about the costume crew? Set construction teams? Special effects artists? Do you really think there's another readily available job out there for everyone who's going to be affected by this?

To reiterate my point: This is not the same as if a show got canceled. The writers have stopped production because they feel they aren't getting enough money. Fine, whatever, that's their right. But the people who will be hurt by it are the ones who make even less than the writers. Ultimately, whatever the outcome, both the writers and the studios will come out of this strike fine. Can the same be said for everyone who worked on a now-suspended show? Probably not.


What, so you're saying that the writers should not strike, and instead should be forced to continue working on the show in order to make sure everyone keeps their job? That sounds, well, socialist.
 
2007-11-15 10:13:21 PM  
kraut7: Guess what you basement dwelling losers...YOU DON'T GET TO HAVE EVERYTHING THE farkING WAY YOU THINK IT SHOULD BE!!!!!

end rant


That's fine. Doesn't mean I shouldn't stand up for the way I want things to be. That's how a free market works. The producers have wants; The buyers have wants. A compromise is found in the middle. If the balance is shifted too far from what the buyers want, people stop buying or a black market pops up as you see here. If the balance is shifted too far from what the producers want, they'll just lose the incentive to produce and stop. That doesn't mean we should stop pushing for what we want.

I'm not sure where this idea that trying to get the best value for your buck is bad came from.
 
2007-11-15 10:14:23 PM  
Gregory F. Stuart: TrixieDelite: I don't watch "The Shield." I watch local news, NBC national news, and the two HBO shows above. I occasionally watch "Dirty Jobs" because I think Mike Rowe is Christmas on a stick. I don't know if he does his own writing or not, but the boy has my Nielsen vote. He could stand on a log and sing Kumbaya for an hour and I'd still watch.

Why is Mike Rowe so popular? I mean, I've watched Dirty Jobs and he seems like a pretty good guy, but he has FAN BOYS. Why is this?


That voice. Those dimples. Those biceps. That dry, self-deprecating sense of humor. That quick wit. Those eyes. That testosterone seeping from every pore of his body.

Oh, God, I need a minute...
 
2007-11-15 10:14:27 PM  
moifee Yeah_Right: With writing like that... you'd make a mint in Hollywood...

I do.


Now... now ... why are you posting on Fark? Shouldn't you be out, walking the picket line...?
 
2007-11-15 10:14:51 PM  
Gregory F. Stuart: What, so you're saying that the writers should not strike, and instead should be forced to continue working on the show in order to make sure everyone keeps their job? That sounds, well, socialist.

First of all, what makes you think I'm not a socialist anyway? But in all seriousness, all I did was point out that I can't sympathize with the writers totally when they're putting thousands of people who make a lot less than they do out of work. Is that a wrong opinion to hold? If anything I guess I'm saying they should have tried harder to negotiate without striking - but then, I'm a big believer in the power of negotiation.
 
2007-11-15 10:15:34 PM  
ReverendJasen: Tatsuma: ReverendJasen: Yes, every Tivo owner in the world is an entitlement riddled douchebag.

Last I checked, people with Tivo still payed for the broadcast

I pay my cable company every month.
Yet you just said I was an entitled douchebag if I downloaded a TV show.
Which is it?


I get my DVR from Time Warner, the owner of Warner Brothers Studios. How does that make me entitled when I'm renting their equipment?
 
2007-11-15 10:15:48 PM  
macaddict0: painfully loud at random intervals.

Holy shiat, do I hate that.
It makes it impossible to keep the TV at one comfortable volume level. Either the show is loud enough and the commercials hurt my ears, or the commercials are loud enough but I can't hear the show. Goddamned compression. I know how and why they do that, and that it's just barely legal, and it pisses me off. This, more than anything, is what compels me to not want to watch any shows on TV when they're aired.
 
2007-11-15 10:17:22 PM  
TrixieDelite That voice. Those dimples. Those biceps. That dry, self-deprecating sense of humor. That quick wit. Those eyes. That testosterone seeping from every pore of his body.

Oh, God, I need a minute...


... and you must like his cologne ... ode-de-shiat ... 'cause he certainly spends enough time wallowing in it...
 
2007-11-15 10:17:58 PM  
What does a studio make thru internet distribution?

There is no way I'm paying double to an employee if I'm not making the same returns online as I am thru network television.

Since online distribution in Canada is nearly non-existent, I don't really have much to go on for comparison... but if the network makes a TV show available off of their website for a few days after the show airs, I simply can't see the reasoning the writers have to charge double. I just can't see the networks drawing in lots of internet viewership.

Those using the internet are downloading ad-free torrents anyway.
 
2007-11-15 10:18:30 PM  
Fart_Machine

Except that there really isn't anything that hasn't been done before.


I'm not saying they should come up with a completely different subject matter. That would be practically impossible at this point, but it's not necessary. A show like The Sopranos can take one of the most overused, cookie-cutter foundations (organized crime) in show business history and make it fresh and entertaining through quality writing and excellent acting.

It all comes down to the mentality of the writers and producers. Are they sitting there saying, "These viewers are idiots. Just write some standard tripe with cheap laughs and they'll eat it up like they always do and call it ice cream." (Scrubs, Desperate Housewives) Or are they sitting there saying, "I want this show to be something special. If we aren't proud of it, we don't air it." (Sopranos, Curb Your Enthusiasm)
 
2007-11-15 10:19:17 PM  
I think we have to focus on what is important here: my enjoyment of the shows I watch.

Strike means no enjoyment of those shows.

I hate the writers and the producers right now. Fark them all. Quit arguing about money and get back to what's important--entertaining me!

/I know I'm a self-centered fark-tard
//Only care about by missing my fave shows though
///slashies
 
2007-11-15 10:22:11 PM  
fanbladesaresharp:
I get my DVR from Time Warner, the owner of Warner Brothers Studios. How does that make me entitled when I'm renting their equipment?


You'll have to ask TW about that. They'll probably say something moronic like "if you don't watch the commercials it's theft of services".
 
2007-11-15 10:22:43 PM  
Tatsuma: bonefish: I watched an episode of The Office I missed online. I laughed at the ads, closed it, went to get the torrent. Sorry NBC, no.

"Waaaah, I'm getting something for free, but I have to sit through 30 seconds of ads, so I'm going to go and break the law, because I'm entitled to have everything I want without paying for it"


You're describing the studios right? The ones that want to get internet revenue without paying anyone that created it?
 
2007-11-15 10:22:55 PM  
Atomic_Cockroach: First of all, what makes you think I'm not a socialist anyway? But in all seriousness, all I did was point out that I can't sympathize with the writers totally when they're putting thousands of people who make a lot less than they do out of work. Is that a wrong opinion to hold? If anything I guess I'm saying they should have tried harder to negotiate without striking - but then, I'm a big believer in the power of negotiation.

I will point out here that there is a difference between a cameraman (for example) and a writer, a distinction which you've failed to make. I will speak in general terms because, hell, I'm not an expert.

Cameramen, grips, et al. -- so far as I know -- are paid by the hour solely for their labor. They can, and in most cases will, get new jobs if the project they're currently hired for will fail. Welcome to how the labor force works for, well, just about everything. What about companies who decide to move offshore? They're also putting people of work. That is the nature of the job force in the United States: it shifts, and you either find a new job with your current skills, or get new skills.

Writers, on the other hand, are not paid by the hour for labor -- they create intellectual property, which they then let the studios rent in order to produce the TV show or what-have-you. They have a right to negotiate varying price on their product. If they feel like the megacorps are trying to screw them (and they are), they can and will strike, and they have every right to do so.
 
2007-11-15 10:24:06 PM  
Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: Excuse me for supporting quality writing and production and not giving money to greedy hacks who think we're all morons.

So you support the writers then? How are you going get 'quality writing' by nickel-and-diming them?

The really greedy people who "think we're all morons" are the executives and producers who only approve shows that pander to the lowest common denominator for the sake of ratings.

There are probably TONS of proposals for new shows that get shiatcanned every year to make room the the new reality shows (HATE) that show up every year. How many fresh ideas is an aspiring writer going to bother to come up with before they give up and either crank something 'cookie-cutter' or just sign on with an existing show?
 
2007-11-15 10:24:18 PM  
What the studios are doing is smart business making money from other places. Its also proof that republicans are idiots. At least the ones that don't support the unions. The studios would keep all the money for themselves and choose to pay nothing to the writers. Without a union they would have no way to fight back.
 
2007-11-15 10:25:37 PM  
Atomic_Cockroach:
To reiterate my point: This is not the same as if a show got canceled. The writers have stopped production because they feel they aren't getting enough money. Fine, whatever, that's their right. But the people who will be hurt by it are the ones who make even less than the writers. Ultimately, whatever the outcome, both the writers and the studios will come out of this strike fine. Can the same be said for everyone who worked on a now-suspended show? Probably not.



It's not because they want a raise out of the blue. They get zero, I repeat, zero compensation for online ad revenue. This is on full-length episodes, not trailers. The studios are screwing over the writers. Not the other way around. If this was an unreasonable demand by the writers, I'd say you were right. But it's in no way unreasonable to get paid for your work.
 
2007-11-15 10:26:51 PM  
Gregory F. Stuart: I will point out here that there is a difference between a cameraman (for example) and a writer, a distinction which you've failed to make. I will speak in general terms because, hell, I'm not an expert.

Cameramen, grips, et al. -- so far as I know -- are paid by the hour solely for their labor. They can, and in most cases will, get new jobs if the project they're currently hired for will fail. Welcome to how the labor force works for, well, just about everything. What about companies who decide to move offshore? They're also putting people of work. That is the nature of the job force in the United States: it shifts, and you either find a new job with your current skills, or get new skills.

Writers, on the other hand, are not paid by the hour for labor -- they create intellectual property, which they then let the studios rent in order to produce the TV show or what-have-you. They have a right to negotiate varying price on their product. If they feel like the megacorps are trying to screw them (and they are), they can and will strike, and they have every right to do so.


Yeah, but that hardly makes it a breeze to have to look for new work because one group decided they weren't getting paid enough. Especially when (as stated above) they make a lot more money than you do already.
 
2007-11-15 10:27:19 PM  
TrixieDelite That voice. Those dimples. Those biceps. That dry, self-deprecating sense of humor. That quick wit. Those eyes. That testosterone seeping from every pore of his body.

Oh, God, I need a minute...

... and you must like his cologne ... ode-de-shiat ... 'cause he certainly spends enough time wallowing in it...


Yes he does, and if he ever steps out of my shower some day, towel wrapped around that waist, hair damp and tousled, skin soft and warm, I'll give him a dirty job that will put him into early retirement.
 
2007-11-15 10:28:30 PM  
Why not...they have been farking over the writers for years.
 
2007-11-15 10:28:32 PM  
I'll give him a dirty job that will put him into early retirement.

Thank goodness Dirty Jobs is unscripted.
 
2007-11-15 10:29:06 PM  
ReverendJasen: fanbladesaresharp:
I get my DVR from Time Warner, the owner of Warner Brothers Studios. How does that make me entitled when I'm renting their equipment?

You'll have to ask TW about that. They'll probably say something moronic like "if you don't watch the commercials it's theft of services".


I've already asked that. I've gotten "you should to support advertisers that allow us to bring you quality programming" to "It really doesn't matter, watch them or don't yore still paying for the equipment".

Now, if companies set up something NetFlix-ish for streaming video, I'd subscribe so long as I can pick and chose the time and computer (I have enough software installed already) I'm on in order to watch. I have video-on-demand already, but it's limited and I'm on a computer mostly, not in front of the TV. Multi-tasking, y'know...
 
2007-11-15 10:30:25 PM  
Speaking of obnoxious ads, I don't know what script fmpub.net is running, but I finally got around to installing noscript and adblock on this Firefox installation because of it. Damn thing keeps locking up FF.

See! Things like THAT are why we take extra steps to avoid ads.
 
2007-11-15 10:31:57 PM  
Atomic_Cockroach: Yeah, but that hardly makes it a breeze to have to look for new work because one group decided they weren't getting paid enough. Especially when (as stated above) they make a lot more money than you do already.

Your blame is misplaced. Think about it...

If the CEOs had paid the writers fairly in the first place, the writers would have not had to strike, and our hypothetical cameraman wouldn't have had to lose his job.
 
2007-11-15 10:32:00 PM  
Incandenza: he article speaks truth in this sense: most writers are middle-class people.

Link (new window)

The average working writer in Hollywood takes home about $200,000 a year, according to the studios and networks, which are represented by the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers.

Funny. when I hear taxes being talked about, liberals usually call 100K "rich"
 
2007-11-15 10:32:50 PM  
I support the WGA. Check this little video out. It spells things out very clearly.

Link (new window)
 
2007-11-15 10:33:01 PM  
Yes he does, and if he ever steps out of my shower some day, towel wrapped around that waist, hair damp and tousled, skin soft and warm, I'll give him a dirty job that will put him into early retirement. he'll just have finsihed his latest dirty job --- cleaing my bathroom.

FTFY
 
2007-11-15 10:33:19 PM  
pnjunction

So you support the writers then? How are you going get 'quality writing' by nickel-and-diming them?


They could go to work for an alternate pay-channel like HBO that actually produces good shows, thereby forcing the standard networks to compete and make their shows better. Or if their only choice is to work for some greedy network that thinks of viewers as sheep then they should take their talent elsewhere. Nobody's forcing them to write for television. I don't think you should work for companies you don't agree with just to make a quick buck. If you have no transferable skills, that's one thing, but certainly not the case here. They could write in any number of different markets and mediums. If TV is a wasteland and they can't change it, leave. I was unhappy with the way engineers are being sucked dry of their talent by soulless corporations who don't fairly compensate them, so I got out. Nobody was forcing me to be an engineer for one of those companies.
 
2007-11-15 10:34:47 PM  
I think people overreact when they say there's nothing good on television. There's a lot of good stuff on. I personally really like CSI, Lost, 24, Heroes, Law & Order, most HBO shows, some food network shows, battlestar galactica, and the daily show. I've also just recently watched episodes of House and Without a Trace for the first time and they were decent too.

I don't really like comedy's much, but apparently lots of people do. I have no interest in Desperate Housewives but tons of people love that show. My preferences don't have to match everyone elses.

I do think that TV isn't as creative as maybe it once was. I don't blame that on writers, I think it is the fault of the FCC for scrapping the rules against networks owning the shows back in the 90s. Now you can't get a show in production unless some stuffed suit at Sony headquarters can find a focus group that thinks the idea is good. Before the creative types would figure out a concept, film a pilot, and market it. Creative pilots aren't likely to even be made anymore.
 
2007-11-15 10:34:48 PM  
Gregory F. Stuart: Tatsuma: That was a joke from tonight's 30 Rock.

Yes, but it's clear you have strong feelings about this writer's strike. A visceral reaction to it, even. What have these writers personally done to you to piss you off so much?


Still waiting, Tats.
 
2007-11-15 10:35:29 PM  
dustygrimp: What the studios are doing is smart business making money from other places. Its also proof that republicans are idiots. At least the ones that don't support the unions. The studios would keep all the money for themselves and choose to pay nothing to the writers. Without a union they would have no way to fight back.

Weak. 3/10
 
2007-11-15 10:35:35 PM  
slightly nsfw jenna fischer (new window)

More of this. This thread needs it.
 
2007-11-15 10:38:03 PM  
NotSubby - Funny. when I hear taxes being talked about, liberals usually call 100K "rich"

As I said upthread, this is like saying that all musicians are rich, because the ones signed to major record labels are making a lot of money. The guild represents a lot more people than that, who rely on residuals to get by.
 
2007-11-15 10:39:25 PM  
macaddict0: Speaking of obnoxious ads, I don't know what script fmpub.net is running, but I finally got around to installing noscript and adblock on this Firefox installation because of it. Damn thing keeps locking up FF.

See! Things like THAT are why we take extra steps to avoid ads.


some of that adBlock stuff will prevent certain types of videos from streaming too, as they get treated AS an ad, particularly it seems, if they're embedded in the same frames (or near) as the videos. Love FireFox, but adBlock has a couple caveats.
 
2007-11-15 10:39:48 PM  
I don't really feel sorry for these writers. They have easy, interesting jobs that allow them to be creative. They're a lucky group.
They are contributing the bulk of the creative talent to the productions, though. They deserve a much bigger piece of the pie. A show with crappy writing sucks and nobody watches it.
The success of Internet based productions illustrates the value good witting to entertainment. All of them have crappy production values and acting. Some have good concepts and writting, which makes them popular.
 
2007-11-15 10:41:52 PM  
Setinotathome: Michael Colton is a no talent ass clown

Wait -- so Setnotathome is John Aboud?
 
2007-11-15 10:42:23 PM  
fanbladesaresharp: macaddict0: Speaking of obnoxious ads, I don't know what script fmpub.net is running, but I finally got around to installing noscript and adblock on this Firefox installation because of it. Damn thing keeps locking up FF.

See! Things like THAT are why we take extra steps to avoid ads.

some of that adBlock stuff will prevent certain types of videos from streaming too, as they get treated AS an ad, particularly it seems, if they're embedded in the same frames (or near) as the videos. Love FireFox, but adBlock has a couple caveats.


That's ok, I can always just temporarily whitelist a page if it's giving me troubles. :)
 
2007-11-15 10:43:41 PM  
Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: Or if their only choice is to work for some greedy network that thinks of viewers as sheep then they should take their talent elsewhere. Nobody's forcing them to write for television. I don't think you should work for companies you don't agree with just to make a quick buck. ... If TV is a wasteland and they can't change it, leave.

And they'll be replaced.

I was unhappy with the way engineers are being sucked dry of their talent by soulless corporations who don't fairly compensate them, so I got out. Nobody was forcing me to be an engineer for one of those companies.

Just like you were.

You're saying ALL the writers could refuse to write for crap shows and make a difference? Never going to work. Who's going to hire them all?

The viewers have to refuse to watch the crappy shows. Just like the consumers have to refuse to buy from those soulless corporations. That's the ONLY way I see either situation improving. The power ultimately belongs to the consumers.
 
2007-11-15 10:45:30 PM  
Tatsuma: Spontaneous Defenstration: Logical fallacy. Just because someone torrents their TV shows doesn't mean they think they're entitled to it. Most people do it because they simply don't give a shiat, and will take whatever options they have. They don't care about "entitlement"; they care about "watching their TV show."

I refuse to believe you typed that with a straight face. That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about and that's feeling entitled.

TV shows cost a lot of money, and that's why there are ads, or that you can buy them on DVD. When you refuse to buy them on DVD or watch them on tv with ads, but you still want to see them so you find a way to watch them illegally, that makes you an entitled douchebag.


So... by his logic if I fast forward through the commercials using my DVR i'm a criminal? I pay for cable service, dvr, etc... watching a show on the net without commercials is no different than DVRing the episode and watching it later. Cable companies pay a flat rate based on subscribers to the networks each month, regardless of what people actually watch on the standard network channels.
 
2007-11-15 10:46:03 PM  
So is somebody blaming crap TV shows on the writers alone?
No TV execs killing off good shows? "Firefly, Carnivale, Deadwood etc"

No writers forced to keep shows alive WAY past their use by date.

Nope, all the writers fault.
 
2007-11-15 10:46:55 PM  
It doesn't even matter either way. A crappy writer could be writing crap, and KNOW that that they're writing crap, but if that crap generates boatloads of revenue they deserve to get paid. Like I said, blame the people that are paying for it.
 
2007-11-15 10:48:08 PM  
Sometimes a strike is the only thing management will listen to. This is one of those cases.
 
2007-11-15 10:48:35 PM  
Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: Most of America will watch whatever is put before them, regardless of quality. Television shows are an inelastic good, there is no good substitute.

No substitute?
READ A FARKING BOOK!!!
 
2007-11-15 10:49:00 PM  
Either the Wild Turkey is going to my head or I'm actually about to side with Tatsuma on this issue.

Here's the bottom line. Despite the fact that it may seem like common sense that all media is headed to the digital/online medium, nobody has managed to figure out how to make money off this format yet. It's the classic Tivo problem; if people can skip the commercials, they will. Also, shifting the cost of the product from advertizers to the public (ie adopting a system like iTunes as your main revenue source) will affect the industry in ways that nobody can predict. We do know, however, that it's muuch less likely that individuals will pay current DVD prices for a show they don't know and love already. The end result of this is that the studios simply don't know how much money the digital sector will yield in the future. What is known, however, is that it will take a LOT of development to realize the medium's full potential, and that development takes money. So yes, by struggling for this money, the writers indeed may be soaking up capital that could (even from their point of view) be better invested elsewhere.
I do, however, think they are entitled to their fair share of this pie. Yeah, it's not like the majority of them are hard off, but i think they should be equitably compensated for the product they produce, plain and simple, rich or poor. But that doesn't change the fact that both sides are being farkheads. The writers, on the whole, are very well off, so they don't feel the full pinch of the strike. The grips, stagehands, makeup artists, couriers, rest of the below the line people who are getting laid off as a result of this do, however, and i don't think that's really fair. Yeah, self interest above all interests i guess, but it's still pretty shiatty.
I dunno, i guess it's a matter of timing. Maybe both parties could come together over some clause in a new contract to the effect that the writers stay at 4 cents per online viewing for two years then switch up to 8 for the remainder of time in contract or something like that. The studios need time and money to develop the medium, plain and simple, and the writers deverve equitable compensation, plain and simple, seems to me like a timing clause is all that's needed to unite the two sides.

but then that might be said turkey.

/not going to site articles/anything, brother is sn. VP at one of the big 4 and sister is a writers' agent at ICM. Dinnertime discussions have become interesting of late for this engineer.
 
2007-11-15 10:49:11 PM  
Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: All he succeeded in doing was reminding me of what a vast wasteland television has become and how little effort and imagination goes into these cookie-cutter shows nowadays. The only shows worth watching are on HBO, period. Go watch some old Twilight Zone episodes and cry at how miserably you have failed to live up to your predecessors, Mr. Writer. All of my sympathy for you has been lost.

Television has always been a volume business filled with 95% crap, don't let nostalgia or selective memory fool you. For every hour a week that a show like The Twilight Zone was on there were 50+ hours of worthless crap that nobody remembers anymore, and that still holds true today.

I don't care at all about the vast majority of shows that are hurt by the strike and I'm glad to see them off the air, but I completely sympathize with the truly talented people who are getting screwed here. As someone who is part of the growing number of people who spends does the majority of their television viewing online I think they should be getting a share of that revenue.

For the record, these are currently the only reasons to own a TV right now: Pushing Daisies, Dexter, The Wire, 30 Rock, The Office, Always Sunny in Philadelphia and Lost.
 
2007-11-15 10:50:04 PM  
Let all of us entitled douchebags rejoice. I personally believe anything you can enjoy once, you should pay for that the first time, and after that it's yours - in your memory, on a tape, in your computer, on the web, etc. Anything you can get in your house, you pay for it ONCE, the first time you see it. After that it's all just electrons on hard drives.

/it's the real world, deal with it
 
2007-11-15 10:50:20 PM  
pnjunction

And they'll be replaced. Just like you were.

You're saying ALL the writers could refuse to write for crap shows and make a difference? Never going to work. Who's going to hire them all?

The viewers have to refuse to watch the crappy shows. Just like the consumers have to refuse to buy from those soulless corporations. That's the ONLY way I see either situation improving. The power ultimately belongs to the consumers.


I agree with you. It's not enough to make a big difference. If the best and brightest writers all refuse to work for network TV, it might encourage them to pay their writers more to win them back, or it might not. Who knows?

I was talking about a different issue, mainly whether we should feel sorry for these writers and support them. I don't, because I think if they work for a company that produces garbage quality products and treats its customers poorly then they're part of the problem.
 
2007-11-15 10:58:19 PM  
CuriousGeorge945Television has always been a volume business filled with 95% crap, don't let nostalgia or selective memory fool you. For every hour a week that a show like The Twilight Zone was on there were 50+ hours of worthless crap that nobody remembers anymore, and that still holds true today.

Untrue. There were far less channels years ago and the fact that so many good shows came from those periods is a testament to the fact that overall quality was better back then. If television was the same quality today as back then, as you claim it is, then by your logic the one good show back then on TV at any given time would have translated into ten good shows today, and it clearly hasn't. We get one good show if we're lucky (excluding pay channels like HBO, which has excellent programming and is a competitor to the atrocious networks we're discussing.)

I don't think any of the shows you listed are particularly wonderful, with the possible exception of The Wire, but that's just my opinion. (Now if you had said the UK Office...there was a brilliant show.)
 
2007-11-15 10:58:33 PM  
TV just hasn't been the same since Friends went off the air.
 
2007-11-15 11:01:50 PM  
Bigman397:
So... by his logic if I fast forward through the commercials using my DVR i'm a criminal? I pay for cable service, dvr, etc... watching a show on the net without commercials is no different than DVRing the episode and watching it later. Cable companies pay a flat rate based on subscribers to the networks each month, regardless of what people actually watch on the standard network channels.

Tat, I generally support his posts, and they get pretty "passionate" but I don't get the rage in this thread. Maybe because I just don't have a yay/nay opinion on the issue. Why can't the writers just take up jobs at ad agencies/firms that produce all the advertising? Clearly their business is being creative for their customers. There is no shortage of that in LA, NY or hell.....Atlanta.

You mention DVR. I get it from TimeWarner. Their own equipment I rent allows me to skip commercials or not. However I'll admit they don't openly tell you HOW to skip over them. So either they don't care (being that they own Warner Brothers) or well....maybe it's just not that big of an issue as I'm already paying for the service and equipment so ad revenue isn't a sticking point.
 
2007-11-15 11:06:14 PM  
blah blah writers blah blah blah WGA blah blah.....

bewbies FTW.

www.dcharti.com

www.hollywoodoffender.com
 
2007-11-15 11:18:29 PM  
FuriousGeorge945:

Television has always been a volume business filled with 95% crap, don't let nostalgia or selective memory fool you. For every hour a week that a show like The Twilight Zone was on there were 50+ hours of worthless crap that nobody remembers anymore, and that still holds true today.

I remember, if only from syndications that ended years ago, when the real greats weren't the writers, but the celebrity guest hosts on gameshows themselves. Back in the day when they still drank and smoke on air. Nothing was funnier than watching them get toasted on The Match Game. Or Richard Dawson's Kiss-a-thons on Family feud.

....oh yeah. and NO WHAMMIES!!!!

I don't care at all about the vast majority of shows that are hurt by the strike and I'm glad to see them off the air, but I completely sympathize with the truly talented people who are getting screwed here.

For the record, these are currently the only reasons to own a TV right now: Pushing Daisies, Dexter, The Wire, 30 Rock, The Office, Always Sunny in Philadelphia and Lost.


Right now it's Scrubs, Office, Stargate Atlantis, Torchwood even though I already watched them online from the BBC3, Nip/Tuck (the mrs likes it) and Mythbusters. And a few others.
 
2007-11-15 11:20:03 PM  
I'm just here to watch all the folks who are addicted to TV scream at each other...dance puppets! Dance!
 
2007-11-15 11:28:14 PM  
Will the strike hasten or delay the debut of "Honk Bag?" I've been waiting for that show for quite some time.
 
2007-11-15 11:28:35 PM  
asmodeus224: I'm just here to watch all the folks who are addicted to TV scream at each other...dance puppets! Dance!

Who says I'm screaming? I have Smallville going in one window and fark in another, and some RSS feed about some volcano in a third, and my little sister is txt m3ss4ging me in a 4th. Since you're reading this, I assume you're on a computer as well.

But, I can't watch what I want to as the TV tuner card is hooked up to the TV and I can't stream video separately when the Mrsfanblades is cruising through shows on the DVR. So online is my best choice. And no, it's not Pirate video, it's put up by the networks themselves.
 
2007-11-15 11:37:20 PM  
Probably already been said...but I haven't really ever heard of a crackdown on TV show piracy at all, I think they're thinking movies.

I could be uninformed...
 
2007-11-15 11:41:13 PM  
Tatsuma: Canadian Canuck: /supports the WGA

Fark the writers.

/Doesn't support the WGA


THIS
 
2007-11-15 11:42:51 PM  
jmr61: Really,

NO ONE CARES.

That is all.


THAT
 
2007-11-15 11:43:52 PM  
"NBC streams 'The Office' online with ads and avoids paying writers by calling it a promotion. Yet when a 15-year-old posts an episode online without compensating writers, the studios call it piracy."

Why is it, that if a man kills another man in battle it's called heroic; yet if he kills a man in the heat of passion, it's called murder?
 
2007-11-15 11:54:03 PM  
No online telly here, not caring :)
 
2007-11-16 12:01:23 AM  
Tatsuma:
Basically, the last time they had a strike, they decided to basically give away all of their rights on tv shows in areas that include basically include portable medias (beta, vhs and now dvds) and online distribution (itunes and such). They decided to give that up, thinking that people would never be too interested, and instead get a bigger share on the reruns, etc...

Now, 20 years later, they realize they screwed themselves out of a LOT of money, so now they are striking to get a bigger part of the pie,once again (and keep what they gained by refusing these rights in the first place, obviously)


I didn't scan every post, but I hope I'm not the first to point out that there was no such thing as online video 20 years ago...
 
2007-11-16 12:02:03 AM  
Half the time the ads are for other shows on the network. There's nothing like waiting for an episode of Chuck to start by watching an advertisement for Chuck [same goes for Life and Heroes].
 
2007-11-16 12:05:23 AM  
pnjunction: Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: Excuse me for supporting quality writing and production and not giving money to greedy hacks who think we're all morons.

So you support the writers then? How are you going get 'quality writing' by nickel-and-diming them?

The really greedy people who "think we're all morons" are the executives and producers who only approve shows that pander to the lowest common denominator for the sake of ratings.

There are probably TONS of proposals for new shows that get shiatcanned every year to make room the the new reality shows (HATE) that show up every year. How many fresh ideas is an aspiring writer going to bother to come up with before they give up and either crank something 'cookie-cutter' or just sign on with an existing show?


I came in here to point this out too. The studios and execs are the reason that TV is so shiat these days, I doubt it has much or anything to do with the writers at all.

I just watched Firefly recently (I know, I know, the year 2002 called...) and was disappointed yet not at all surprised when I learned it got canned halfway through the frist season. That's what you get for trying to make something other than mediocre trash.
 
2007-11-16 12:14:32 AM  
The writers develop the content, they want to get paid for it. After it's initial run, if their content still makes money, they have a right to it.
 
2007-11-16 12:22:30 AM  
Tatsumaki Senpuu-Kyaku!
I came in here to point this out too. The studios and execs are the reason that TV is so shiat these days, I doubt it has much or anything to do with the writers at all.

I'll say the same thing to you that I said to the person you quoted. I have no sympathy for people who work for big, wretched companies that treat their customers like crap. Nobody forced them to write for these greedy TV networks. They should either compete with the networks by working for a competitor who actually supports quality writing or do something else entirely, and deprive the networks of the best and brightest out there. "Just following orders" is not a valid excuse for anything. My roommate's dad works as a defense lawyer for the greediest insurance company there is, screwing grandmothers and 16-year-olds out of their own money every day on technicalities and outright lies. If he didn't work there, somebody else would. But he IS working there, and that makes him a scumbag. Those writers sold their integrity and I'm not going to abandon mine by supporting them. Yeah, it's just television. But they're partially responsible for turning it into the giant suck-fest it is today and that pisses me off, because I used to like TV.
 
2007-11-16 12:27:06 AM  
Tatsumaki Senpuu-Kyaku!: I just watched Firefly recently (I know, I know, the year 2002 called...) and was disappointed yet not at all surprised when I learned it got canned halfway through the frist season.

I recently watched that too...good stuff. It was quirky, that was what made it fun and interesting. But we can't have that, some people might not like it, so we need something more generic (ie. stale crap).
 
2007-11-16 12:27:22 AM  
rekoil: I didn't scan every post, but I hope I'm not the first to point out that there was no such thing as online video 20 years ago...

Nor DVDs, were they? 1987? I can't remember.

Anyway, I think you are, sadly.
 
2007-11-16 12:43:58 AM  
Attention all Farkers:

Nobody, I repeat, nobody, besides yourself, cares what TV shows you find funny, original, creative, stupid, lame, or any other adjective your want to throw out there, and repeatedly stating your opinion will not change the way other people feel about said shows. Taste is subjective.

That is all.

GeorgeCostanza:
Why is it, that if a man kills another man in battle it's called heroic; yet if he kills a man in the heat of passion, it's called murder?


i42.photobucket.com
 
2007-11-16 12:50:45 AM  
There is more the a slight difference between the two situations, submitter. The studio owns the work. The 15 year old does not.
 
2007-11-16 12:53:33 AM  
Tatsuma: Spontaneous Defenstration: Logical fallacy. Just because someone torrents their TV shows doesn't mean they think they're entitled to it. Most people do it because they simply don't give a shiat, and will take whatever options they have. They don't care about "entitlement"; they care about "watching their TV show."

I refuse to believe you typed that with a straight face. That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about and that's feeling entitled.

TV shows cost a lot of money, and that's why there are ads, or that you can buy them on DVD. When you refuse to buy them on DVD or watch them on tv with ads, but you still want to see them so you find a way to watch them illegally, that makes you an entitled douchebag.


I find it hard to believe you are so ignorant.
Tivo is not illegal.
Neither is the old fashioned setting of the VCR.
With either mode it is perfectly legal and expected to fast forward through the adverts.
 
2007-11-16 12:55:52 AM  
GeorgeCostanza: "NBC streams 'The Office' online with ads and avoids paying writers by calling it a promotion. Yet when a 15-year-old posts an episode online without compensating writers, the studios call it piracy."

Why is it, that if a man kills another man in battle it's called heroic; yet if he kills a man in the heat of passion, it's called murder?


Actually if a man kills another man in the heat of passion it is usually classed as voluntary manslaughter. MURDER is saved for malice aforethought ... not passion.
 
2007-11-16 12:59:50 AM  
CzarCaustic:

Actually if a man kills another man in the heat of passion it is usually classed as voluntary manslaughter. MURDER is saved for malice aforethought ... not passion.

Missed the joke reference there?
 
2007-11-16 01:00:45 AM  
It appears so ... but law school is all I think about these days.


/sad sad person
//forgive me
 
2007-11-16 01:04:05 AM  
I'm no expert at all in this matter, but I find it hard to believe the writers of Leno/Colbert Report/The Office are underpaid.

Can anyone dig up figures on this?


Not saying all writers are rich, but when rich people biatch about not making enough money, it makes me farking sick.

/A-rods needs to die.
//Hopes House isn't affected by this.
 
2007-11-16 01:05:07 AM  
Oops, I meant A-rod's Agent!
I swear.
 
2007-11-16 01:06:17 AM  
CzarCaustic:

That makes sense, your Weeners was spoken like a lawyer. :)

The line in question is from Wayne's World, the manager of the donut shop they hang out at temporarily distracts the cameraman with a strange rant ending with that line.
 
2007-11-16 01:07:13 AM  
Here's a novel idea, by default give the writers 25% of revenues, all revenues, on TV shows. When you consider how many writers there can be on a show, doesn't work out to much per person really. And yes, writers should be making as much as anyone else, after all, no good writers, no good show to make a gravy train out of. Also the studios/networks should look into this idea, let the people making the shows, writers, directors et al, do their thing and stay the fark out of it.

/also Lorne Michaels is a jag off, that is all
 
2007-11-16 01:08:52 AM  
Vash The Stampede:

The line in question is from Wayne's World, the manager of the donut shop they hang out at temporarily distracts the cameraman with a strange rant ending with that line.


Ahhh yes ... it sounds familiar now!

Thank you for the context, and I will attempt to get 'law' of the brain next time I visit FARK! :)
 
2007-11-16 01:10:14 AM  
Nature Spirals: Not saying all writers are rich, but when rich people biatch about not making enough money, it makes me farking sick.

keep in mind most TV writers live in LA or NYC or in the area. Seen the cost of living in these areas? Also there is the matter that without good writing, you ain't got jack. And writers have always gotten screwed, going back to when Warner brothers meant actual brothers and not just a studio name.
 
2007-11-16 01:11:54 AM  
This is the BEST thing that could happen to our society.
With any luck, neither side will give in and the strike will carry on indefinitely.
Parents may even spend time with their children instead of planting them if front of Family Guy and The Simpson's.
Couples will rekindle, having secks with each other instead of watching the latest high school drama unfold on Desperate Housewives, The L Word, etc.

The quality of our entertainment has been lacking for a very long time. Society as a whole should be striking. Striking the writers. Write something worthy. Striking the Studios. Produce something worthy.


The Writer's are striking in an effort to show their value to the Studios. The viewing public isn't going to notice them missing and will not only carry on just fine without them, but will probably fair better.
 
2007-11-16 01:14:49 AM  
CzarCaustic

Thank you for the context, and I will attempt to get 'law' of the brain next time I visit FARK! :)


You're the guy in my classes who makes me want to pull my hair out from stress and set myself on fire.

Seriously though, good luck on exams. :)
 
2007-11-16 01:16:30 AM  
Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: CzarCaustic

Thank you for the context, and I will attempt to get 'law' of the brain next time I visit FARK! :)

You're the guy in my classes who makes me want to pull my hair out from stress and set myself on fire.

Seriously though, good luck on exams. :)


I can't help being 'that guy' ... I am sorry for myself and my brethren. We mean well, we really do!

And thanks for the luck, you to!
 
2007-11-16 01:17:17 AM  
add o's where necessary
 
2007-11-16 01:18:08 AM  
I don't think Tatsuma is reading so focus the hate on something else.....But that's just a guess.WhyteRaven74: Nature Spirals: Not saying all writers are rich, but when rich people biatch about not making enough money, it makes me farking sick.

keep in mind most TV writers live in LA or NYC or in the area. Seen the cost of living in these areas? Also there is the matter that without good writing, you ain't got jack. And writers have always gotten screwed, going back to when Warner brothers meant actual brothers and not just a studio name.


Uhh which neighborhood? Neither is cheap, but there are huge differences in the 'burbs.
 
2007-11-16 01:24:44 AM  
WhyteRaven74: Nature Spirals: Not saying all writers are rich, but when rich people biatch about not making enough money, it makes me farking sick.

keep in mind most TV writers live in LA or NYC or in the area. Seen the cost of living in these areas? Also there is the matter that without good writing, you ain't got jack. And writers have always gotten screwed, going back to when Warner brothers meant actual brothers and not just a studio name.


I live in LA and drive through a very nice neighborhood to take my kids to school. The kind of neighborhood to drive to for Trick or Treating, cause you know they got the good stuff. The kind of neighborhood where there is filming going on more often than not, using one of mansions/estates as background or set for some film or tv show. In recent days, homemade signs have begun to pop up on the front lawns proclaiming support for the writer's strike, with statements such as, "Pay Me Fairly".

I do not live in this affluent neighborhood, yet in my own neighborhood my neighbor was yelling on the phone to his accountant a couple of months ago that too much was being taken out for taxes from his writing paychecks. He was taking home just over half at $26,000. twice a month.
 
2007-11-16 01:24:44 AM  
WhyteRaven74

keep in mind most TV writers live in LA or NYC or in the area. Seen the cost of living in these areas? Also there is the matter that without good writing, you ain't got jack. And writers have always gotten screwed, going back to when Warner brothers meant actual brothers and not just a studio name.

Cost of living is high in those areas because there are extraordinary advantages to living there. I live in Boston and get raped on rent, but anything I could possibly need is less than a 10-minute car or train ride away. Plus a lot of the best jobs and connections are right here, in the city. Still no sympathy from me.
 
2007-11-16 01:25:54 AM  
Gregory F. Stuart: rekoil: I didn't scan every post, but I hope I'm not the first to point out that there was no such thing as online video 20 years ago...

Nor DVDs, were they? 1987? I can't remember.

Anyway, I think you are, sadly.


NO but the point really is about "alternative to TV" which was vhs which then became DVD.
Velenti said that VHS would never take off so just discuss the TV/Movie side and we will give you a bone.
They went with it because at the time to buy a vhs movie for the home would run you around $100

Now with the studios saying there is no money in "digital distribution" yet there should be nothing about a %.
The writers come back with the yet does not mean forever, and we let you have your way with the home video market, but not again
 
2007-11-16 01:30:42 AM  
WhyteRaven74: Nature Spirals: Not saying all writers are rich, but when rich people biatch about not making enough money, it makes me farking sick.

keep in mind most TV writers live in LA or NYC or in the area. Seen the cost of living in these areas? Also there is the matter that without good writing, you ain't got jack. And writers have always gotten screwed, going back to when Warner brothers meant actual brothers and not just a studio name.


I understand your position, but if you can't come up with good enough matertial to pay your bills, maybe you should seek another profession. I get screwed at the phone company I work at, but I manage.


Almost everyone gets screwed...some people daily. They deal with it in their own way, some good, some bad. The only reason this is a big deal as far as news goes is that now fat-ass America has nothing to do 7 nights a week.

God forbid they read a book or play ball with their kids.
 
2007-11-16 01:47:09 AM  
I support the writers.

If there were ever a group of greeedy, worthless assclowns deserving of being the poster children for greedy worthless assclowns... then that would be the folks who run studios associated with folks like the RIAA, the MPAA, and television as well.

Good God, these assholes will sue single moms for 100,000+ THOUSAND dollars per each single song that they have in their shared folder on their computer.... supposedly for the immense lost profits from "piracy"... when they themselves basically made their fortunes out of farking every creative person involved in the music, movie, and TV industries.

The writers, who MAKE POSSIBLE the very shows that the studios claim are worth billions of dollars in revenue from... asked that the folks who write the damn story get a measely 8 cents for each DVD sold... and a measely 4 cents for digital downloaded copies.

8 cents. 8 cents out of DVDs that sell for anywhere from $10 to $29 at the store... and the studios say that's too much money for the guys who make their entire industry possible.

And 4 cents for downloaded copies? Good God. A digital copy costs the studio ZERO, and they get 70% of the $1.99 TV show price from iTunes, and close to 90% of the $9.99 movie price on iTunes... but giving up a lousy 4 cents to the freaking creator of a show is too much money?

What the fark, the writers don't deserve 4 cents?... Why? Because that would prevent random talentless suit-wearing assclown #451624 over at the studio from buying a new BMW every six months, by leaching off of the creative talent of others?

fark the studios.
 
2007-11-16 02:24:36 AM  
Tatsuma

I'm against them leaving the negotiation table and going on strike, not against them negotiating...

I'm curious... They've been in negotiations for months (parts of it since spring, I think?), and the main sticking points were a modest increase in DVD residuals (at the old, 1988, "growing the market" VHS/BETA rate of 0.3-0.36%), and an actual agreed-upon rate for new media. The industry told them to go scratch on ANY DVD increase. The WGA agrees to drop the DVD residual hike if if they get in "new media" at their existing broadcast television rates, and the industry tells them to go scratch again. I believe the industry was willing to pay them the crazy-low DVD residual rate (that was agreed upon to grow the market, that they've still had for ages even though the home video market increased their sales crazy-large and are now on a format that has crazy-less manufacturing) on "new media" that now has almost NO manufacturing costs and an almost limitless number of sales possibilities (including ones where they make money and want to pay NO residuals)... and not a penny more.

So what, pray tell, did they have left to bargain with at said table? "Give us better rates or we'll ask you for better rates again!" "Ok, we'll take the absolute shiat residuals..." ? Just where do you think they could still go?
 
2007-11-16 02:40:28 AM  
i love battlestar galactica.

the writers really should get more money, and the rich ass clowns who own everything should get less.

gbtw losers.
 
2007-11-16 03:39:15 AM  
this headline was probably posted by a striking writer.


/stfu and write more heroes, plz
//after you get ur money
 
zz9
2007-11-16 06:47:29 AM  
Granted, Battlestar Galactica isn't the best example for that reason, but it's still an instance of writers just taking a concept, characters, and plotline from an old show rather than coming up with a new, creative concept.

When will people get the fact that writers do not decide to remake old shows!? The studios own the rights, they are the ones who decide to do this! Not the writers. The studios! They decide to redo and old show and then hire writers.
 
2007-11-16 07:50:25 AM  
Writers are always treated like shiat!
Hasn't anybody learned from the Coen Brother's movie 'Barton Fink'?
 
2007-11-16 07:51:36 AM  
Farkin' Found It!: Writers are always treated like shiat!
Hasn't anybody learned from the Coen Brother's movie 'Barton Fink'?


Only about 4 people actually saw 'Barton Fink'.
 
2007-11-16 08:18:17 AM  
Just a point of order here:

ALL T.V. SHOWS ARE SCRIPTED!

Sorry for the caps, but I have to make this point. All shows: sitcoms, dramas, cooking, "reality", are scripted to some extent. Even Curb Your Enthusiasm is scripted (Larry David writes an outline of each show, while the actors ad-lib their lines).

This strike will eventually affect all programming.

One final point, the t.v./movie industry is no better than the recording industry. They both tend to rape the folks who do the actual work.

/steps off soap box
 
2007-11-16 08:54:19 AM  
Gregory F. Stuart:What, so you're saying that the writers should not strike, and instead should be forced to continue working on the show in order to make sure everyone keeps their job? That sounds, well, socialist.

Isn't that pretty much the same argument the writers are using? The claim that they need increased residuals for those lean years where they can't find work.

Not sure who to support on this one- Movie studios who want even more money or writers who want to be paid forever for anything they do. Until the special effects team and wardrobe department get a cut, personally I think they are all greedy bastards.
 
2007-11-16 09:00:27 AM  
Nestea Plunge: Farkin' Found It!: Writers are always treated like shiat!
Hasn't anybody learned from the Coen Brother's movie 'Barton Fink'?

Only about 4 people actually saw 'Barton Fink'.


STFU before John Goodman comes and burns down your hotel.

/;)
 
2007-11-16 09:58:26 AM  
That's ok, let them strike. We still have reality TV, and we ALL know that ISN'T written!

:|

/late to the party
 
2007-11-16 10:36:26 AM  
These writers sound like they have never worked in a corporation before. Then comes the awwwwwww poor writers. Fark em. Plenty of other entertainment out there. I hate to admit it but I actually agree with Tatsuma on this one. I for one would be all about a Canell only A-Team, Magnum PI, Airwolf channel. Oh if only Spike could have a baby out of wedlock with TVLand. Maybe some Miami Vice at night to soothe me to sleep. Again, fark the WGA. WTF has you Union done to prevent this??? Ever tried to work in Hollyweird without a Union card of some sort??? Now THAT is discrimination WITHIN the workpool, which is a whole 'nother arguement. Sound guy here.
 
2007-11-16 10:40:05 AM  
stixx: Gregory F. Stuart:What, so you're saying that the writers should not strike, and instead should be forced to continue working on the show in order to make sure everyone keeps their job? That sounds, well, socialist.

Isn't that pretty much the same argument the writers are using? The claim that they need increased residuals for those lean years where they can't find work.

Not sure who to support on this one- Movie studios who want even more money or writers who want to be paid forever for anything they do. Until the special effects team and wardrobe department get a cut, personally I think they are all greedy bastards.


Uh, what the fark are you saying? The writers are demanding fair pay for their work, not asking for charity. Get it straight.

hipster_slayer: These writers sound like they have never worked in a corporation before. Then comes the awwwwwww poor writers. Fark em. Plenty of other entertainment out there. I hate to admit it but I actually agree with Tatsuma on this one. I for one would be all about a Canell only A-Team, Magnum PI, Airwolf channel. Oh if only Spike could have a baby out of wedlock with TVLand. Maybe some Miami Vice at night to soothe me to sleep. Again, fark the WGA. WTF has you Union done to prevent this??? Ever tried to work in Hollyweird without a Union card of some sort??? Now THAT is discrimination WITHIN the workpool, which is a whole 'nother arguement. Sound guy here.

You think those TV shows magically apppeared out of thin air? They had writers too, dipshiat.

I don't know why I bother. After all, anyone who openly agrees with Tatsuma is guaranteed to also be a Grade A moron.
 
2007-11-16 11:16:07 AM  
Setinotathome: Michael Colton is a no talent ass clown

i see what you did there.
 
2007-11-16 11:18:31 AM  
My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir! The bums will always lose! Do you hear me, Lebowski?
 
zz9
2007-11-16 11:35:04 AM  
Again, fark the WGA. WTF has you Union done to prevent this???

They negeotiated. And after getting word through the grapevine that it was the DVD rate that was the stumbling block and that if they dropped that the studios would do a deal on the new media they dropped the DVD rate demand. The studios then said "Still no deal. Screw you! We're leaving! By the way, can we keep all this private? Don't want the media all over this"
WGA kept it private.
Studios went straight to the medai and told them the WGA had walked.

Ever tried to work in Hollyweird without a Union card of some sort??? Now THAT is discrimination WITHIN the workpool, which is a whole 'nother arguement.

Write a movie yourself. If you can get a studio to buy it the WGA will congratulate you and welcome you with open arms. They are the most open union around.
 
apv
2007-11-16 12:00:05 PM  
It's got drama, it's got comedy, it's got tears, and fears, and queers...and its all unintentional

Public Access FTW!

"Take over feeble public access TV Show, and exploit it. Man I feel sorry for whoever that is!"
 
2007-11-16 01:34:50 PM  
While it doesn't seem quite right that writers don't have the same contractual elements that other industry professionals, I have to say that I have several friends who are successful writers who are filthy wealthy (not quite filthy rich).

Sure there are less wealthy writers, but guess what, whinypants? There are lower paid actors and producers, too. If you don't like the contract, switch industries or titles - one of my writer friends began producing too, and now makes triple-bank (this was after going to school to be a director but being unable to get a gig).

Actually, I don't really care anyway. I haven't had 'crapvision' since 1988 and rent the DVD of the two shows worth watching.
 
2007-11-16 02:37:44 PM  
Meh they don't show Babylon 5 or MST3k on TV anymore, so I just buy them on DVD...pretty much any TV show that I like I get on DVD....Watching TV all too often just winds being a flip-through-the-channels fest for stuff I don't like and instead watch the Prevue channel for stuff that comes on the channels I don't get...

So I don't watch TV.
 
2007-11-16 02:41:58 PM  
I agree with the headline's point, but is anyone else tired of the calls to emotion the writers are using?

"Residuals help writers survive lean years."


So what? How is that relevant. Choose a business with a steady income.
 
2007-11-16 03:39:02 PM  
I think it's funny that there's this whole argument going on about how cameramen can or can't get work on reality shows, as though "reality" shows don't have writers.

Maybe not as reliant on writers as sitcoms, but "reality" shows still have their fair share.
 
zz9
2007-11-16 05:25:52 PM  
If you don't like the contract, switch industries

It's the studios trying to get out of the contract, not the writers.
It's the studios who are showing episodes on the net instead of on the networks and saying "No, we're not going to pay you for these as we agreed, they aren't broadcasts, they're 'promotion' so even though we earn money from them we're going to ignore our contract and not pay you"
 
2007-11-16 07:43:53 PM  
To all the people complaining about the lack of good shows:

Ever since the birth of cable, people have complained that there's nothing good on TV. Not true. The good shows are just more spread out because there's hundreds more stations. You actually have to search for good shows now, instead of having all of them handed to you on three or four major networks.

It's like Major League Baseball or the NFL. There's tons of great talent, but when you keep adding more teams to the league, the talent gets spread out. Then you have people saying "There aren't any great powerhouse teams like there used to be." Well of course not. The talent's just as good, but it's spread out. TV is the same way.
 
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