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(Some Gender Guy/Gal)   Coed locker rooms given green light in Maryland. In a related development, Maryland braces for massive population influx   (wnd.com) divider line 139
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12491 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Nov 2007 at 4:52 AM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-11-14 10:18:02 PM
Great, Montgomery county. Weren't you the ones that also banned Santa Claus a few years back before you had to backtrack?

Since no one else wants to get this started, I will: I do not want my daughter, even if she is with my wife at the local pool, changing next to a naked grown man just because he identifies as a woman, even if you can pile up 100 miles of studies that show he thinks he's a woman. That's not a conversation I feel I should have to have when she's 8 or 9 because someone has a condition that affects a minuscule amount of the population.

Post op? Sure, go for the women's room. Dangling junk? No. In between? Sorry, this is one of the prices one has to pay. The potential for abuse is simply too farking great.
 
2007-11-14 10:32:38 PM
Everybody Gay Panic!
 
2007-11-14 10:34:21 PM
Here's an opposing viewpoint from someone who champions transgendered causes, although I'm not really satisfied with the argument she quotes:

http://transworkplace.blogspot.com/2007/11/opposition-to-trans-inclusive.html (pops)

My main concern is this quote:

"My answer is that, after a decade of work in this field, I have never heard of a situation where a person used a false claim of gender identity for that purpose. I have certainly heard of a few cases where a man dressed as a woman in order to commit a crime and escape detection (though of course, having heard of the cases, the attempts were obviously not successful). I have also heard about men committing crimes in women's bathrooms. But these cases all involved an attempt to escape notice, not to call attention to false claims about gender identity. More significantly, those cases were not spurred by the passage of a gender identity non-discrimination law. Now what if, you think, what if some crafty male, spurred by this new law, were to come up with a lascivious plan to lurk in the women's restroom and then, when confronted by the police about his harassing behavior, claim that he was entitled to commit harassment because of his gender identity? The answer is that harassing behavior is not permitted regardless of one's gender. If I am standing in the women's restroom and the woman next to me puts her hand on my thigh, that's harassment, and it doesn't matter if she claims gender identity issues or not."

There's nothing in there about non-harassing behavior. So as long as the other person claims gender identity problems, your problems are moot.

Since this hasn't reached the mainstream press yet, perhaps other farkers could add to the discussion.

And I'm not submitter. I would have been far less graceful with my headline.
 
2007-11-14 10:50:01 PM
Link (new window)

Here's more about the bill from an actual news source. The language of the bill was clarified before the voting to rule out the whole restroom thing and answer the WMAL wingnuts who are all over this. Your concern about your daughter is not valid.

/MC born and raised
 
2007-11-14 10:51:05 PM
Oh, and subby fails.
 
2007-11-14 11:17:06 PM
quietbs: Here's more about the bill from an actual news source.

No kidding. I looked on the Post but apparently I was searching the wrong dates or the wrong term. I didn't want to post an opposing viewpoint from another blogger, but there's only so much time.

But even with the best intentions, Trachtenberg was not thinking things through. The bill was well written in parts, and extremely poorly written in other parts. She should focus on those parts that can hurt other people when she's pushing bills. It seems she dropped her conditions when people raised complaints.

For that reason alone, I agree my concern about my daughter is not valid now. (bold so people will read it) Had Duchy Trachtenberg's original bill gone through, then it would have been a concern.

I'm not worried about transgendered people, I'm worried about stupid politicians. She isn't winning points.
 
2007-11-14 11:20:29 PM
The gay-dar scan is detecting unusually high levels of activity, Captain...

i16.tinypic.com
 
2007-11-14 11:37:24 PM
FTA: "The definition for 'gender identity' is so vague that no individual of ordinary intelligence can possibly know when they are violating Chapter 27"

Neocons: You're too f*cking stupid to know how to be moral, so we just want to legislate everything our way, just for your good.
 
2007-11-15 04:56:01 AM
Where do us furries change -- we hate having to change around smooth humanoids without enormous eyes and ears! Yuck!
 
2007-11-15 04:58:46 AM
Damn prudish Americans.....are we not?

I have been in many 'coed' restroom/locker rooms here in Germany.

Nothing wrong with it.
 
2007-11-15 05:08:31 AM
As a life-long Marylander, I was all set to heartily approve of this initiative. Until I actually read TFA, that is.

Way to get my, erm, hopes up, subby.
 
2007-11-15 05:13:32 AM
Damn hypocritical Europeans!

Centuries of 'fundy-dumping' in the New World, shirking their moral responsibility of exiling them to the next world, then affecting surprise at the result!
 
2007-11-15 05:23:55 AM
Damn black people! All this talk of "separate but equal is not equal." Well, it's finally gotten around to what I surmised.

Wait.

Thanks, black people!
 
2007-11-15 05:27:48 AM
I like this cause everytime I stop at a rest stop it's this hole in the stalls wall that say stick it in for pleasure, so I do and I always get the women with the big rough hands and grunts alot

// I can swear one of them had a mustache
 
2007-11-15 05:31:51 AM
Well, let's see.....today I feel my "feminine side" strongly, so I'll use the Ladies room. Tomorrow, after stacking firewood I'm sure I'll feel very masculine....so I'll use the Mens room.

Let's see how THAT argument stands up when the police officer sees my bearded self coming out of the ladies room!
 
2007-11-15 05:35:25 AM
Americans make such a fuss about segregating the sexes for toilet, bathing, and changing facilities. It's so completely stupid and unnecessary.
 
2007-11-15 05:38:07 AM
Am I seriously going to be the first one the mention the shower scene in Starship Troopers?! For Fark's sake, shame on you all!
 
2007-11-15 05:40:17 AM
FTA: In other words, a male teacher or student will be able to use the female restrooms and locker rooms if he thinks he is a female.

Restrooms and locker rooms aside, I cannot for the life of me understand how someone can just decide to be the opposite gender. There are biological and physiological characteristics that unequivocally demonstrate your gender.

Now, I believe the responses to what I've said are probably two-fold: (1) that nobody "decides" his gender identity, and (2) that "gender identity is entirely separate from your biological sex." I'll grant you the first. No one wakes up one day and makes a conscious decision to start seeing himself as a woman. However, the second is a problem. I know that over the last few years people have tried to dissociate biological sex and "gender." That's what I don't understand and where I disagree.

If you're born with an XY pair of chromosomes, you're a male. If you perceive otherwise, why don't people treat it as a problem with perception? How does someone become a "woman" if not by their genetics? Unless you are religious or otherwise believe there is some "spiritual force" that determines your make-up, there are not many other places to look. At the heart of every person is his/her genes. If they don't explain your "femininity," what does?

Yet people seem to argue that gender is wholely distinct from the biology that creates it. If a man perceives himself as a woman, it must be because he was somehow born with the wrong genitals. It couldn't possibly be a problem with his perception - a mental illness.

Mental illness doesn't deserve any more stigma than physically illness. And maybe the easiest treatment is simply to change the body to match the (incorrect) perception. It doesn't hurt anything and, at least, the person's views become internally consistent, even if not biologically supported. But this whole idea of "gender identity" as a concept that is severable from biological sex strikes me as a charade. It appears to be a fiction intended to make the treatment easier to swallow.
 
2007-11-15 05:42:16 AM
 
2007-11-15 05:43:07 AM
rabidferret: Am I seriously going to be the first one the mention the shower scene in Starship Troopers?! For Fark's sake, shame on you all!

And what a grand scene that was in the movie, point well taken
 
2007-11-15 05:43:58 AM
FTFA:"The definition for 'gender identity' is so vague that no individual of ordinary intelligence can possibly know when they are violating Chapter 27,"

Here's a hint: Boys have a penis. Girls have a vagina.

/not interested in the psuedo social pyscho babble. I don't care what's "trapped" inside you. If you're so convinced you're something you're not, cough up the cash and get yourself "fixed".
 
2007-11-15 05:46:11 AM
rabidferret: Am I seriously going to be the first one the mention the shower scene in Starship Troopers?! For Fark's sake, shame on you all!

Don't forget Robocop.
 
2007-11-15 05:46:43 AM
Afternoon_Delight: The gay-dar scan is detecting unusually high levels of activity, Captain...

What in the flying f*ck does homosexuality have to do with ANY of this? Being a homosexual != being a transsexual. And transsexuals, in a very real sense, are not homosexuals.

/Please take you stupid cliched images with you when you leave. Thanks.
//Did I just feed the troll?
///And say that this story did relate to homosexuality in some strong way, would your dumb little images be funny even then? I doubt it. Even a child can point out when there is a homosexual afoot. Why is that funny?
 
2007-11-15 05:46:49 AM
Macular Degenerate
Americans make such a fuss about segregating the sexes for toilet, bathing, and changing facilities. It's so completely stupid and unnecessary.


As a confirmed heterosexual male, I gotta say: segregating the bathrooms ain't all bad. At least in that situation, the average female doesn't have to worry about whether the previous patron raised the seat.

/Seriously. Men's bathrooms are vile compared to womens.
//In most cases.
///More germane to the article: get over it. TG folks ain't gonna be hitting on the, er, opposite sex.
////Otherwise, they wouldn't be TG, would they?
 
2007-11-15 05:53:08 AM
Seriously. Men's bathrooms are vile compared to womens.

I've cleaned bars for a living (after they closed) and I can tell you the Womans bathroom was ALWAYS more trashed than the Mens room! The worst is when the used tampon receptacles are full...you can figure out the rest on THAT one.
 
2007-11-15 06:02:38 AM

Please, do not influx our population. We're already filled to the brim with illegal aliens.

"Don't go back to Rockville". I mean that literally.

I've cleaned bars for a living (after they closed) and I can tell you the Womans bathroom was ALWAYS more trashed than the Mens room! The worst is when the used tampon receptacles are full...you can figure out the rest on THAT one.


Seriously, where are we supposed to put those things? Can't flush them down the toilet, or else they'll plug up the plumbing.

/besides, we actually wash our hands afterward, unlike the men who usually don't
//that means lots more paper towels in the trash too
///and people at bars are drunk and/or cruising, thus distracted from paying sufficient attention to personal or public hygiene
 
2007-11-15 06:08:22 AM
Seriously, where are we supposed to put those things? Can't flush them down the toilet, or else they'll plug up the plumbing.

Ummmmm...say something to the on-duty manager about them being full.
 
2007-11-15 06:10:56 AM
Johnny the Man:

Mental illness doesn't deserve any more stigma than physically illness. And maybe the easiest treatment is simply to change the body to match the (incorrect) perception. It doesn't hurt anything and, at least, the person's views become internally consistent, even if not biologically supported. But this whole idea of "gender identity" as a concept that is severable from biological sex strikes me as a charade. It appears to be a fiction intended to make the treatment easier to swallow.


Yeah I would agree with you on that. I've worked closely with transgenders and although I may sound unsympathetic- I'm not but there are certain things you just have to admit. Say for example, I was certain from birth I was Abraham Lincoln and by adulthood, I decided to act on that impulse. I start dressing like Lincoln, start telling everyone my birthday is February 12, and start prattling on about 4 score and 7 years ago people would probably think I was crazy. Not to mention the fact that doing all that doesn't make me Lincoln- I was never the 16th president, never born in a log cabin. But for whatever reason we are supposed to accept the fact that a man (or woman) starts pretending to be the opposite sex and we are supposed not only accept the behavior but also applaud them for their "bravery".
 
2007-11-15 06:11:01 AM
Transgenders are seriously screwed up in the head. I don't really want them in either bathroom, but certainly not the girl's bathroom. Even more so with guys claiming that they feel like girls, just so they have a chance to see naked girls.
 
2007-11-15 06:13:20 AM
www.rol.ru

Approves.
 
2007-11-15 06:18:12 AM
j0ndas: Even more so with guys claiming that they feel like girls, just so they have a chance to see naked girls.

That's what I was getting at with my "feeling my feminine side today" comment.
 
2007-11-15 06:18:38 AM
As a graduate of MC's Wootton High School, I'll be the first to say that we've had coed locker rooms for years. Teachers just don't know about it.

/I like the gender born with boobies
 
2007-11-15 06:47:32 AM
Don't forget Robocop.

I'll see your Robocop and raise you a Robot Jox.
 
2007-11-15 06:50:30 AM
jujupie: What in the flying f*ck does homosexuality have to do with ANY of this? Being a homosexual != being a transsexual. And transsexuals, in a very real sense, are not homosexuals.

Really?

I always thought of male homos as someone born with a penis who wants to have sex with another person who has a penis.
 
2007-11-15 06:55:15 AM
"Late last week, in response to the outcry and concerns from some fellow council colleagues, Trachtenberg agreed to pull an amendment to the bill that would have specified restrooms and locker rooms as public accommodations in which an individual could choose a room based on the gender identity that the person "publicly and exclusively expressed." "

To my knowledge there is no strict legal definition for transgendered. So with this legislation, unless I a missing something, there is nothing keeping a pervery hetero dude from going into a womens locker or bathroom to check out women as long as he claims some sort of gender identity issue.

A couple of the "experts" claim this has never happened, but system is in place to prevent it from happening? Shouldn't we have legislation that plans for completely possible scenarios? I mean if I was a lawyer and my client was caught in the wrong bathroom, I would be all over this law as an excuse.
 
2007-11-15 07:05:45 AM
WND?

Seriously--- how many transgendered people are in YOUR locker room? Like this is a widespread problem.

Is there even a law against being in the "wrong" locker room? Back in the day, we had a female cleaning the men's locker room at a rather nice health club. And no, you wouldn't hit her.
 
2007-11-15 07:06:36 AM
Result: There will be perverted straight-males traveling around nights and weekends to various swim clubs and gyms, where they are not known, using womens locker rooms and getting their thrill on. It would be naive to think otherwise.
I can also see a 2 or 3 young teen boys going to a place they have never been and daring each other to go into the womens locker rooms to have a peek.
Never underestimate the drive/curisosity of the healthy straight-male. That is mostly a good, natural thing.
Seriously. What percentage of the population fits into this bizzare sub-group? Cant be more than a fraction of a percentage. Yet, all women have to compromise their privacy?
 
2007-11-15 07:07:10 AM
Johnny the Man: .

Mental illness doesn't deserve any more stigma than physically illness. And maybe the easiest treatment is simply to change the body to match the (incorrect) perception. It doesn't hurt anything and, at least, the person's views become internally consistent, even if not biologically supported. But this whole idea of "gender identity" as a concept that is severable from biological sex strikes me as a charade. It appears to be a fiction intended to make the treatment easier to swallow.



Actually gender identity disorder is listed in DSM and there's a 90%+ cure rate if it's identified and treated at an early age.

With treatment most boys that identify as girls end up as healthy gay adult males. They no longer hate their body image so badly that they want to mangle their genitals. Check out the Village Voice article "See Tom be Jane" for more on that.
 
2007-11-15 07:08:15 AM
rabidferret: Shower scene. NSFW - Boobies (new window)

The perfect breakfast video- sausage and fried eggs

"Pursuant to the definition of 'gender identity,' an individual can choose a gender without limitation whatsoever," he said.
Essentially, the plan opens the doors of all public accommodations, including facilities such as locker rooms, to those who "perceive" they are of that gender


The abiity to change into a girl at will would come in quite handy. NSFW
 
2007-11-15 07:10:21 AM
Huggermugger:

Seriously, where are we supposed to put those things? Can't flush them down the toilet, or else they'll plug up the plumbing.



Farking A they do. Don't even get me started on that.
 
2007-11-15 07:13:13 AM
filter: Seriously--- how many transgendered people are in YOUR locker room? Like this is a widespread problem.

I don't think I would be worried about people who have real "transgender". They aren't there to check out girls and they probably want as little as attention as possible.

My problem with this bill is that there is no clear definition of "transgendered" given so there is nothing to keep some perv from taking advantage of it.
 
2007-11-15 07:14:18 AM
More appropriate shower scene. Porkies! (NSFW) (new window)

Except now, no need to hide.
 
2007-11-15 07:34:15 AM
From what I hear of Maryland, would different sexes together in the same changing room even be able to tell each other apart?

/from Michigan
//Michigan would have the same problem
///recently heart of something called "Michigan Fat"
 
2007-11-15 07:34:42 AM
Let's just flip this around:

So, if I'm in a bathroom all by myself late at night, and a man woman walks in, I am supposed to be okay with this? If I'm at a pool, in a women's man's locker room, and a man woman walks in - I'm supposed to be okay with this?

Hellz ya!
 
2007-11-15 07:42:54 AM
"The female residents of Montgomery County clearly have a right of privacy that prohibits all persons of the opposite sex 'from using a restroom, locker room, or other similar facility designated for females'. It is ridiculous to place the desires of persons suffering from gender identity disorder in front of the constitutional rights and safety of 99 percent of the residents in Montgomery County," he said.


I didn't know that Montgomery County was 99 percent female.

//thinking about moving
 
2007-11-15 07:48:47 AM
Eight year old girls can be really mean. I mean just imagine you're a guy in the ladies locker room, stripped down to your bra, panties, and hose. Then this incorrigible little brat, starts pointing and giggling at what a little pee pee you have. Very embarrassing, at the least.

/or so i was told.
 
2007-11-15 08:02:09 AM
As a lifelong Montgomery County resident, I'm so proud of the Politburo (aka county council) as they must've solved all other problems in the county to waste time and pass stuff like this. We're becoming more and more like San Francisco. Course, as long as the majority of residents continue to blindly vote liberal Democrat, stuff like this will continue to be passed.
 
2007-11-15 08:10:07 AM
upthedownstair, I have to take issue with your take on this wonderful development. This is a landmark decision in gender/ sexual equality. Long have the homosexuals/ lesbians been unfairly granted access to eye candy that the heterosexuals have been traditionally denied.

Thanks, libs! And for once, I really mean it!
 
2007-11-15 08:12:27 AM
upthedownstair: We're becoming more and more like San Francisco.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

/MC lifer too
 
2007-11-15 08:12:32 AM
I wonder if this is meant to keep people who are attracted to one another in separate locker rooms or if it is to keep like gender minded people in the same locker room.

Straight male - Guys
Straight Female - Girls
Gay male - Girls
Gay Female - Guys
transgender male - Guys
transgender female - girls
gay transgender male - girls
gay transgender female - guys
Bisexual - both
 
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