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(MSNBC)   It looks like Carnivore is going to be used after all...   ( divider line
    More: Scary  
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3451 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Jul 2001 at 8:13 AM (16 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

30 Comments     (+0 »)
2001-07-29 09:36:27 AM  
Surprise, surprise, surprise.
2001-07-29 10:13:51 AM  
Is it me, or does it seem every FARKING day, we are closer to becoming like Orwell's "1984"? Hell, we'll probably surpass it next week at this rate!

2001-07-29 10:18:28 AM  
Eep. Fark.
Bloody fark.
2001-07-29 11:29:35 AM  
If you guys think that the FBI isn't ALREADY using this thing, you're sadly mistaken...
2001-07-29 01:20:56 PM  
But... but.... they are required to tell Congress how they use it, right? They would never leave anything out or be dishonest, would they?

I mean, they were honest and forthcoming with the McVeigh evidence, and no one in the FBI has ever done anything unscrupulous (*cough, cough* Hanssen! *cough!* *cough!*) or dishonest!

We should trust our government to do what's best for us! They know so much better than we do!
2001-07-29 01:21:33 PM  

Egads. I forgot to close my sarcasm tag on that last post. Please forgive me.
2001-07-29 01:38:41 PM  
Anyone notice how MSNBC always manages to report something long after it has been reported by other news sources. Kind of like the way Popular Science writes articles about "Great New Discoveries". Then when you read the article you find out it's all about vacuum tubes.
2001-07-29 03:04:57 PM  
Its all for your protection, and if we can't contain you, we will be forced to re-train you. It would behoove you to be very careful what you say about carnivore, or the FBI for that matter, because we are listening. We have the power here. We are running the show, if you defy us, there will punishment. Don't you understand that? Or do you have to learn the hard way?

We are here to PROTECT you from the most dangerous enemy, YOURSELVES. You don't even thank us for this service. You will. I promise you, you will be very grateful for my services to you.

This message has been brought to you by the FBI, CIA, FCC, NSA, the DEA, the FDA, the Police Chief's Union, Helmet law fanatics, The V-chip, The GOP, the Democrats, and everyone hell-bent on dictating to you what is best for you.
2001-07-29 03:49:48 PM  
Sad thing about it is all it's good for is spying on the general public. Anyone really up to no good probably knows enough to encrypt their email. Carnivore can't do a darn thing against that.
2001-07-29 04:02:19 PM  
I don't think people use the exclamation "Egads" nearly enough these days.
2001-07-29 04:10:26 PM  
Exactly, Neko-Yasha. :) Carnivore is sort of like SDI - a huge, massive system designed in such a way as to not be able to defeat an existant threat, but to be able to defeat a non-existant threat :) Carnivore is only capable of catching dumb criminals, yet the criminals need to have done something major enough to be under FBI jurisdiction. Not exactly a large cross-section ;)

-= rei =-
2001-07-29 04:22:13 PM  
Hey Farking Bunch of Idiots! Get out of my house, get off my property, and quit reading my mail! And don't give me that "we're just here to protect you" bullshiat. Anyone who believes there won't be serious violations of peoples' Constitutional rights needs an immediate reality check.
2001-07-29 04:28:25 PM  
I can send what ever I want. The second one of my e-mail from me to someone else in Canada gets read and some contacts me about it from the FBI, or any of my friends in the US; It is payola time!

I will ask for $1 trillion dollars! I am not an american and they should not be monitoring me, and if they intercept a transmission that is mine that happens to pass through a server in the US - I am going to get paid!

I will regularly (and have been already), jokingly trying to plan a raid of the white house! Now if i get arrested for it, and they think they have stopped a crime - I will get paid. Everyone should have one person they joke about like this, and the FBI would be running around all over the place and eventually have to shut down Carnavoire, because it is just to pro-active and they don't have enough agents!
2001-07-29 04:59:46 PM  
Bycustin1 - "Carnavoire" - heh. That's priceless, especially considering that 80% of what they're monitoring will be associated with messages on how to make them even bigger dicks (I hope it was intentional).

Um, yeah, Carnavoire (heh), so what's new, anyway? Echolon, anyone? Or the disclaimer "an email is as safe as a postcard", from way back in the beginnings of the 'net?
And on a political level - "We shall overcome ourselves - we shall learn to love Big Brother" - please note: We already do. Coca-Cola(R) anyone? A pair of Levis(R)? A Dell(R) computer perhaps? Watch a Sony(R) movie in the evening on a Sony(R) DVD player, lie back in your Laz-E-Boy(R), sip a Bud(R)? (bla bla bla). Who does the government belong to? That's your Big Brother. Ain't 'e nice?
(Yah - I'm overstating a point)
2001-07-29 05:38:50 PM  
I alway thought Carnivore Was being used........
It has always been used, now its just coming out and asking permission to the effect of it doisent care what the answer is.

Any encryption on email will be cracked...... dosent matter.... any smart criminal wouldnt use Email.......
Any dumb criminal deserves to get caught usualy, and its only a matter of time.
2001-07-29 05:45:46 PM  
In response to this, someone needs to make an "I'm going to kill the president" virus, in the style of the I love You bug. It'd kill two birds with one stone: Make the FBI so busy they can't read your e-mail and get all those idiots who open executable attachments thrown in prison.

Sometimes my brilliance amazes even myself.
2001-07-29 05:49:36 PM  
Carnivore itself is pretty harmless if the FBI uses it w/o getting a warrant first. Basically, Carnivore is only uses to monitor the addresses contained on the To: and From: lines on a tapped account. To be able to actually used to read the Subject or content of the message, the feds have to get a court order from a federal judge (they can usually get an ok from any judge just to trace the recipients and sender). Therefore, Carnivore IS NOT able to sniff an average joe's email for keywords like 'bomb'. This pretty much renders it useless if average joe gets a nice anonymous email account (considering of course, he remembers to mask his IP address, but thats another can of worms).

And.... they cut down the search parameters on Carnivore 2.0 because it was picking up too much information: i.e., searching for Joe Brown on 2.0 only turns up Joe Brown, not close matches or various mutations of Joe Brown. Not quite sure WHY they did that, most likely out of public concerns for privacy.

There's a good article that expands on Carnivore in the Summer issue of 2600.
2001-07-29 05:54:50 PM  

You underestimate encryption. Sure, if you use RSA 512, you're going to be cracked (the private cracking record for RSA 512 is, what, 24 hours? FBI centralized systems are probably about equal to our massively distributed systems that did that) if the FBI is really concerned about your email, though it'll stop you from coming up in random keyword searches. If you use a better encryption technique, say, 2048 bit RSA, it'd take them past when the sun goes nova to crack it (or, half a millenia if you take into account Moore's law ;) ).

-= rei =-
2001-07-29 06:17:24 PM  
Who in their right mind would use email to send private, personal information in the first place.....?
2001-07-29 07:10:41 PM  
first, this is another misleading farkticle title. they've already been using it, and congress is just now saying that they should be accountable for how they use it.

second, who names this crap? if i was the guy naming stuff like this, i would have called it "fluffy happy bunny" or something like that. picture these two scenarios.

"well, i'll just click send and soon, my cohorts will know the exact details about my plan to blow up the white house next month. we will be fully coordinated and we will be successfull. oh, wait. what about carnivore. i better send them letters instead."


"well, i'll just click send and soon, my cohorts will know the exact details about my plan to blow up the white house next month. we will be fully coordinated and we will be successfull. oh, wait. what about fluffy happy bunny. aw, screw it." *clicks send*
2001-07-29 07:12:14 PM  
"Who in their right mind would use email to send private, personal information in the first place.....?"

2001-07-29 07:13:27 PM  
Long live Carnivore! It is the bane of AOLers everywhere. "Whats .exe mean?" hehe, have to love those suckers.
2001-07-29 09:38:46 PM  
This makes me think that pot should be legalized!!!
2001-07-29 09:54:06 PM  
i'm starting to suspect niteshade smokes a bit more crack than pot.
2001-07-29 10:43:08 PM  
Yep, Dubya's doing wonders for that "great" nation of yours.
2001-07-29 11:42:09 PM  
honestly, i think he has very little to do with this. we've been sacrificing freedom for "safety" for years. we were creeping towards a police state long before the dub. shiat. the other bush was the director of the cia before he was president.

the more freedoms we give to our government, the less we have to fear from anybody other than the government. and the only people with anything to fear from the government are people who are doing something wrong.

(wrong, adj.- anything the government doesn't like. includes demonstrating, writing, or speaking against the government.)
2001-07-30 10:14:24 AM  
At least carnivore was exposed during Clinton's presidency - it was stealth until then. But, yeah, this is an issue that the president has little to do with unless they care one way or another. Its congress we have to blame, for their vote to keep it in use.

-= rei =-
2001-07-30 01:46:17 PM  
So when the government taxes us and removes options from everyone's lives, and interferes in our lives financially in the name of "equality" and "levelling the playing field" it's "the good of the whole is more important than the rights of individuals".

But when the government employs the same tactics regarding our communications and electronic privacy it is somehow unacceptable to you, Rei?

2001-07-30 01:52:38 PM  
You do realize we are talking about the same entity performing both functions, don't you? You do of course understand that when we Socialize in one direction, we Socialize in directions that you may not want, as well, right?

This is an appropriate time to use one of my favorite quotes of all time:

"The great delusion of political activity is the belief that you can have the government do exactly what you want -- that, somehow, you can get it to perform some function for some good purpose, with nothing bad thrown into the bargain -- and that the program you envision will be carried out dutifully by thousands of bureaucrats in just the way you think it should be handled."
2001-07-30 08:19:19 PM  
Um, demo... you need to cool down for a minute.
There are things I disagree that the government does - and I work to change them. There are things that I disagree that the company that I work for does, but I have no power to change them. But, at least in the former case, I do have an affect :)

You go play in your "when everything is deregulated and there is no government, we'll all just get along!" fantasy world now.

-= rei =-
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