FARK.com: (3187671) High school shooting in Finland. One dead, multiple shot, standoff in progress

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		High school shooting in Finland. One dead, multiple shot, standoff in progress (news.bbc.co.uk)		532
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8903 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Nov 2007 at 7:35 AM | Favorite | share:

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Whoopty Whoo The Precious Bongo Boy		2007-11-07 09:14:59 AM

NikkiPoooo: While it may be true that black people commit a larger portion of violent crimes it seems to me that most of those crimes are of a more personal nature, committed against people they know or at least have some association with. The calculated mass murders (not including jihad which is a cultural thing for sure) seem to be more typical of people of European descent. Does anyone know if there are any studies or statistics on this topic?

The reason behind this is because of the societal structure driving the different races. Society has placed African Americans in a position of financial weakness, so most of the crimes they commit are financial in nature. Even the gang related shootings are drug related, which is tied back to a financial need.

Serial killings and mass shootings are tied to the warped desire for power which is instilled in Caucasians. It becomes an overwhelming influence in those with a sick mind, and a mass murder becomes the outlet for this drive for power.

MayoBoy		2007-11-07 09:16:55 AM

nesler: vincentpriceisdead: Why are people so quick to "blame" something? It's never that simple. People just want to be placated, I guess.

People don't want to believe that there are people that are fundamentally, to the very core, complete psychopaths. People look at evil as being a process of corruption (with the exception of extreme monsters like Hitler--everybody forgets that people like him were children once). If a person can be dangerous from birth, how does that relate to the concept of a benevolent god, who endows all children with complete innocence at birth? Contemplating the idea of children being evil can fark up a person's belief system.

Not at all. Spend some time with a group of kids. You'll learn that some are mean, some are good, and some don't seem to have a conscience.

WhatTheFoobies		2007-11-07 09:17:25 AM

Question - how frequently do the police capture school shooters alive in the US?

Rufus_T_Firefly		2007-11-07 09:17:25 AM

Everybody sing!

========================================
FINLAND
========================================

Chorus:
Finland, Finland, Finland,
The country where I want to be,
Pony trekking or camping,
Or just watching TV,
Finland, Finland, Finland,
It's the country for me.

Verse:
You're so near to Russia,
So far from Japan,
Quite a long way from Cairo,
Lots of miles from Vietnam.

Chorus:
Finland, Finland, Finland,
The country where I want to be,
Eating breakfast or dinner,
Or snack lunch in the hall,
Finland, Finland, Finland,
Finland has it all.

Verse:
You're so sadly neglected,
And often ignored,
A poor second to Belgium,
When going abroad.

Chorus:
Finland, Finland, Finland,
The country where I quite want to be,
Your mountains so lofty,
Your treetops so tall,
Finland, Finland, Finland,
Finland has it all.

Repeat:
Finland, Finland, Finland,
The country where I quite want to be,
Your mountains so lofty,
Your treetops so tall,
Finland, Finland, Finland,
Finland has it all.

Fade...
Finland has it all ...

villoks		2007-11-07 09:17:55 AM

IL: "The suspect is in bad condition. The police did not shoot him."

Savian		2007-11-07 09:19:07 AM

I don't know if it's been said already but I bet $10 that a death metal band was somehow involved.

God Is My Co-Pirate		2007-11-07 09:19:54 AM

So how long before they're blaming it on Lordi?

onelouder		2007-11-07 09:20:12 AM

What are Finland's gun control laws so we can quickly, yet obviously correctly, jump to the conclusion that either they're proof gun control doesn't work, or they need gun control laws because this doesn't happen where they have gun control laws.

My Liver Hurts		2007-11-07 09:20:18 AM

WhatTheFoobies: Question - how frequently do the police capture school shooters alive in the US?

Answer - Not all that often.

Judging by his little "manifesto," I'd say he plans to end it today.

crunchyfist		2007-11-07 09:21:02 AM

I'm going to hell for this but...

i39.photobucket.com

vincentpriceisdead		2007-11-07 09:21:03 AM

WhatTheFoobies: Question - how frequently do the police capture school shooters alive in the US?

Not often. The only one I can think of off hand was the Jonesboro shooting in '98. Usually these kids manage to off themselves, but the Jonesboro guys tried to make a break for it.

Whoopty Whoo The Precious Bongo Boy		2007-11-07 09:21:08 AM

Savian: I don't know if it's been said already but I bet $10 that a death metal band was somehow involved.

This is almost certainly correct. Or a violent video game. Influences like that act as a catalyst for the violence. The influence of American culture on this particular youth will be shown as the facts come out.

wepsi		2007-11-07 09:21:36 AM

villoks: IL: "The suspect is in bad condition. The police did not shoot him."

IS reports the shooter is probably dead or injured, the police doesn't know which.

nesler		2007-11-07 09:21:38 AM

MayoBoy: and some don't seem to have a conscience.

But we usually look at it as being an issue of corruption. Daddy beat them or so and so molested them, and it warped their character.

Being a psychopath is a totally different ballgame. Essentially, they're warped right down to the DNA. And they are very, very rare creatures.

My Liver Hurts		2007-11-07 09:22:35 AM

nesler		2007-11-07 09:22:38 AM

vincentpriceisdead: Not often.

in '99, who was it that shot who? Did Harris kill Klebold, or vice versa?

This		2007-11-07 09:23:23 AM

Golf clap. Funny headline, smitty.

culturemock		2007-11-07 09:23:43 AM

Brisken - while the point of your image is taken I can't say that I disagree with the sentiment of his t-shirt. Humans do some pretty piss poor things to each other.

perhicano		2007-11-07 09:24:21 AM

MayoBoy: Not at all. Spend some time with a group of kids. You'll learn that some are mean, some are good, and some don't seem to have a conscience.

The nature vs. nurture debate seems to have progressed to the point where the question is more if it's more a 60/40 or 40/60 distribution, not if all chilluns are born little angels or not. Which is good.

griffer		2007-11-07 09:24:59 AM

Rufus_T_Firefly: Everybody sing!

Sadly, I came here for this.

My Liver Hurts		2007-11-07 09:25:53 AM

Whoopty Whoo The Precious Bongo Boy: Savian: I don't know if it's been said already but I bet $10 that a death metal band was somehow involved.

This is almost certainly correct. Or a violent video game. Influences like that act as a catalyst for the violence. The influence of American culture on this particular youth will be shown as the facts come out.

Know who else played violent video games and listened to death-metal?

vincentpriceisdead		2007-11-07 09:26:12 AM

nesler: Being a psychopath is a totally different ballgame. Essentially, they're warped right down to the DNA. And they are very, very rare creatures.

I like the cut of your jib.

They are different creatures.. pure psycopathic actions are totally emotionless, whereas so often the products of "corruption", as you put it, act out with tons of emotion, or their seeming lack of emotion is a mask of years of pain that can be hard to differentiate. God, people are interesting.

And I forgot to mention earlier, I don't think fascination with this stuff is a "testosterone-fueled" thing. I mean, I'm a girl, not even gothy in the slightest, I just think people's wiring is neat.

bargled		2007-11-07 09:26:27 AM

GO FINLAND WOO!

/finland fark party?
//please? kiitos.

Smellvin		2007-11-07 09:26:35 AM

nesler: Being a psychopath is a totally different ballgame. Essentially, they're warped right down to the DNA. And they are very, very rare creatures.

Not in the least. Something like 1% of people are psychopaths (too lazy to look this up, but I remember reading it somewhere) and they tend to make great used car salesmen and politicians. It's only a small percentage of these psychos that actually shoot up people.

griffer		2007-11-07 09:26:53 AM

wepsi: villoks: IL: "The suspect is in bad condition. The police did not shoot him."

IS reports the shooter is probably dead or injured, the police doesn't know which.

Or he tried to kill himself with a .22 and FAILED MISERABLY!

nesler		2007-11-07 09:27:01 AM

My Liver Hurts: Know who else played violent video games and listened to death-metal?

A purple suit? Dear Jesus, put a feather in his hat and he's a pimp. I smell photoshoppin'...

NikkiPoooo		2007-11-07 09:27:14 AM

Whoopty Whoo The Precious Bongo Boy:
The reason behind this is because of the societal structure driving the different races. Society has placed African Americans in a position of financial weakness, so most of the crimes they commit are financial in nature. Even the gang related shootings are drug related, which is tied back to a financial need.

Serial killings and mass shootings are tied to the warped desire for power which is instilled in Caucasians. It becomes an overwhelming influence in those with a sick mind, and a mass murder becomes the outlet for this drive for power.

Anyone have a wand to stuff up its nose?

/could've swore I already said this

DaShredda		2007-11-07 09:27:20 AM

crunchyfist: I'm going to hell for this but...

WIN

DammitIForgotMyLogin		2007-11-07 09:27:23 AM

Apparently several Cybernations players knew him. Discussion here

juhis		2007-11-07 09:28:10 AM

i live in Finland so this is relevant to my interests

it's nice to see the american-way of life has followed me here after all

wepsi		2007-11-07 09:29:22 AM

bargled: GO FINLAND WOO!

/finland fark party?
//please? kiitos.

If farkers gather in a city I'm in at the time, I have no objections.

perhicano		2007-11-07 09:29:29 AM

My Liver Hurts: Know who else played violent video games and listened to death-metal?

Know who else likes rollin' down the street, smoking endo and sipping on gin & juice (with his mind on his money and his money on his mind)?

nopokerface		2007-11-07 09:29:36 AM

WhatTheFoobies: Question - how frequently do the police capture school shooters alive in the US?

As often as the shooter wants to be taken alive.

vincentpriceisdead		2007-11-07 09:29:41 AM

nesler: in '99, who was it that shot who? Did Harris kill Klebold, or vice versa?

IIRC, I think they both shot themselves, actually, in the library as the cops were coming in.

dittybopper		2007-11-07 09:29:54 AM

SBA_JKred: dittybopper: nopokerface: Molavian:

Ignoring the problem because it's politically incorrect doesn't make it better.

Political correctness has made it impossible to even discuss many real problems.

Absolutely true. I've argued until I'm blue in the fingers that violence, and particularly gun violence, in the US is pretty much restricted in large part to young urban black males (Black males between the ages of 16 and 30 have a rate of 91.94 per 100,000!).

Another little chestnut: Women in general, and especially white women, have little to fear. White women have a homicide rate of 1.83 per 100,000, whereas white males have a rate of 3.64 per 100,000. As a whole, the rate for women (including blacks and hispanics) is only 2.53 per 100,000. So, despite what you might see on Lifetime, women in this country are generally safer than men, at least when it comes to homicides.

What about rape? Are you still safe if you get raped?

Funny thing about rape: The rate of forcible rape in the US follows just about the exact curve of expected fertility in a woman.

Forcible rape rates peak in the late teens and early twenties, then settle down into slowly falling plateau right up to about the average time for menopause, then fall precipitously.

Rape or Sexual Assault (Female)
Rates per 1,000 females
Victims' age Rates
12 to 14 6.7
15 to 17 12
18 to 21 13.8
22 to 24 11.8
25 to 29 3.7
30 to 34 5.4
35 to 39 4.0
40 to 49 2.6
50 to 64 0.6
65 or older 0.3

Source: Age Patterns of Victims of Serious Crime (PDF) US Department of Justice.

Robbery, murder, and assault rates don't follow that pattern: If you check at the link I provided, you will see that they peak about the same place for victim age as rape, then taper off in a linear fashion. They don't have the plateau that rape has.

That suggests that rape is at least in part related to the expected fertility of the victim. I know that it goes against the received wisdom of 'experts' that there is a sexual attraction component to rape, but I can't think of any other explanation for that plateau, that drops right at menopause.

I think that there is a political correctness at work there also: Admitting that there might be a sexual attractiveness component to rape might imply in some people's mind that the victim was partially responsible for the crime committed against her. I am not implying that.

Besides which, I specifically was talking about homicide, not rape.

crunchyfist		2007-11-07 09:30:15 AM

DammitIForgotMyLogin: Apparently several Cybernations players knew him. Discussion here

so can we Tech Farm him now?

Mart Laar's beard shaver		2007-11-07 09:30:25 AM

mortalmorsel: Slothie: Oh no. And I thought Finland was one of the last places in Europe that has remained sane.
*sigh*

As a current resident of Finland, I can tell you that this is most definitely not the case

farm1.static.flickr.com

netcentric		2007-11-07 09:30:31 AM

juhis: i live in Finland so this is relevant to my interests

it's nice to see the american-way of life has followed me here after all

Funnel cakes and diet Snapple followed you to Finland?

Tat'dGreaser		2007-11-07 09:31:03 AM

juhis: i live in Finland so this is relevant to my interests

it's nice to see the american-way of life has followed me here after all

Well next you can hope that personal hygiene follows you there also.

Asshole.

FrankGecko		2007-11-07 09:31:18 AM

onelouder: What are Finland's gun control laws so we can quickly, yet obviously correctly, jump to the conclusion that either they're proof gun control doesn't work, or they need gun control laws because this doesn't happen where they have gun control laws.

They are pretty sensible, actually. If you have a hunting license (you need an exam for it), you can get rifles and shotguns (semi-auto). Pistols are a bit harder to get - basically if you are a member of a shooting club, it's pretty easy to get a .22, but for anything bigger you need some proof that you actually shoot as a hobby. It might depend on the city, but sometimes they make you keep a training diary or some such.

Getting a gun is not easy, but neither is it overly hard.

dittybopper		2007-11-07 09:31:22 AM

DaShredda: crunchyfist: I'm going to hell for this but...

WIN

Is is butt especially evil?

philwz		2007-11-07 09:31:42 AM

"I am a cynical existentialist, antihuman humanist, antisocial socialdarwinist, realistic idealist and godlike atheist."

I'm shocked, let me tell ya.

Whoopty Whoo The Precious Bongo Boy		2007-11-07 09:32:08 AM

vincentpriceisdead: IIRC, I think they both shot themselves, actually, in the library as the cops were coming in.

It is more likely that this is a story fabricated by the police, and that the cops actually took the opportunity to put bullets in them after they put down their guns. Suicide did not fit their personalities.

nesler		2007-11-07 09:32:39 AM

Smellvin: Not in the least. Something like 1% of people are psychopaths (too lazy to look this up, but I remember reading it somewhere) and they tend to make great used car salesmen and politicians. It's only a small percentage of these psychos that actually shoot up people.

They have psychopathic characteristics, but they aren't psychopaths. Ego-mania, god complexes, whatever...but a HUGE difference in the severity of the issues.

A full-blown psychopath essentially believes he is the only thing with a conscience. A being among automatons that he can do whatever he likes with. That's a gross simplification, but that's the long and short of it. They're good actors, faking emotions and whatnot in order to blend in, and take a great deal of pleasure in doing so. There's a serious god complex wrapped up in it all.

vincentpriceisdead: I like the cut of your jib.

Thank you very much. If you happen to see anything interesting along the lines of this discussion and care to discuss it, let me know. E-mail is in profile.

/BIE? sorry...
//But seriously, I have a deep-seated fascination with this stuff.

Whoopty Whoo the Preciuos Bongo Boy		2007-11-07 09:33:00 AM

As always, the arguments made by my twin are rational.

Whoopty Whoo The Precious Bongo Boy: NikkiPoooo: While it may be true that black people commit a larger portion of violent crimes it seems to me that most of those crimes are of a more personal nature, committed against people they know or at least have some association with. The calculated mass murders (not including jihad which is a cultural thing for sure) seem to be more typical of people of European descent. Does anyone know if there are any studies or statistics on this topic?

The reason behind this is because of the societal structure driving the different races. Society has placed African Americans in a position of financial weakness, so most of the crimes they commit are financial in nature. Even the gang related shootings are drug related, which is tied back to a financial need.

Serial killings and mass shootings are tied to the warped desire for power which is instilled in Caucasians. It becomes an overwhelming influence in those with a sick mind, and a mass murder becomes the outlet for this drive for power.

nopokerface		2007-11-07 09:33:47 AM

I blame Juha Helppi

My Liver Hurts		2007-11-07 09:34:40 AM

philwz: "I am a cynical existentialist, antihuman humanist, antisocial socialdarwinist, realistic idealist and godlike atheist."

I'm shocked, let me tell ya.

Yes, I'm sure a little Jesus-juice would have fixed this guy's mental issues right up in no time.

wrek		2007-11-07 09:34:42 AM

Japan had the highest female rate (10.4 per 100,000 in 2004).

What a waste :(

hudsucker proxy		2007-11-07 09:35:29 AM

Whoopty Whoo The Precious Bongo Boy: vincentpriceisdead: IIRC, I think they both shot themselves, actually, in the library as the cops were coming in.

It is more likely that this is a story fabricated by the police, and that the cops actually took the opportunity to put bullets in them after they put down their guns. Suicide did not fit their personalities.

Was their black captain ylling at them afterwards?

nesler		2007-11-07 09:35:46 AM

vincentpriceisdead: IIRC, I think they both shot themselves, actually, in the library as the cops were coming in.

I looked it up. There's a belief that Harris may have shot Klebold, then killed himself. Something to do with the trajectory of the bullet and where Klebold's gun was found (opposite side of where the bullet entered his head). Makes sense. It was Harris's show.

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