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(Wired)   How "Halo 3" makes you realize suicide bombing is a legitimate tactic. Cue the outrage in 3... 2... 1... BOOM   (wired.com) divider line 181
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22339 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Nov 2007 at 2:40 PM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-11-05 12:40:40 PM
That's actually an interesting little editorial.
 
2007-11-05 12:44:50 PM
Well... it would be if you just spawned somewhere else on the map. Apparently that doesn't really work in life.
 
2007-11-05 12:47:28 PM
YOU SUICIDE BOMBING BIATCH!

ITS A LEGITIMATE STRATEGY!
 
2007-11-05 12:47:50 PM
CtrlAltDelete: Well... it would be if you just spawned somewhere else on the map. Apparently that doesn't really work in life.

It does if you're a Buddhist or Hindu. You might spawn as an insect or a lower mammal though.
 
2007-11-05 12:49:11 PM
Jeez... welcome to 2fort.
 
2007-11-05 12:52:28 PM
So this dude gets frustrated with repetitive, reactive data entry and then goes all Hezbollah? Remember that, folks, when you're peeved at the supermarket checker because they're not as fast as you think they should be.
 
2007-11-05 12:58:04 PM
Didn't we learn this from Battlestar Galactica?
 
2007-11-05 01:04:32 PM
OlafTheBent: Jeez... welcome to 2fort.

I'm sorry if you suck at playing 2fort.
 
2007-11-05 01:04:44 PM
robotwithglasses: Didn't we learn this from Battlestar Galactica?

By the Gods, man, the survival of the human race is on the line there.
 
2007-11-05 01:05:50 PM
So say we all.
 
2007-11-05 01:15:54 PM
What can you learn from playing EverCrack?
 
2007-11-05 01:19:14 PM
He's missing one very, very important thing. Real-life suicide bombers don't get extra lives to come back under the same account.

The mindset of a terrorist knows they're going to die- forever- and still does a suicide bombing.

Plus, this guy gets to keep his "points".

The analogy of a suicde bomber in a video game would only work if your account was destroyed when you die... and you so badly wanted to kill one person, that you'd be willing to give up your account for that person's death.
 
2007-11-05 01:23:19 PM
downstairs: The mindset of a terrorist knows they're going to die- forever- and still does a suicide bombing.

He mentions that, because of his status on the HALO ranking system, he no longer dreads death as the top-tier players do. Also,

just as in the real world, some of the disgruntled have-nots are all too willing to toss their lives away -- just for the satisfaction of momentarily halting the progress of the haves.

Temporary death or not, I think it's a pretty potent analogy.
 
2007-11-05 01:29:58 PM
I have to agree. When I am really sucking on a map in BF1942 I am all too willing to adopt suicidal tactics to take out enemies. In the mindset of the game, I have "nothing to loose".
 
2007-11-05 01:30:21 PM
The kamikaze comparison is more apt.

Suicide bomber would be if he somehow took his character from Halo3 and walked into a cafe in second life or something and killed a bunch of unsuspecting noncombatants.

Of course in this case the suicide bomber would probably be killing mostly flying penises.

/at least that's what I've heard
//never played second life
 
2007-11-05 01:36:31 PM
downstairs: He's missing one very, very important thing. Real-life suicide bombers don't get extra lives to come back under the same account.

The mindset of a terrorist knows they're going to die- forever- and still does a suicide bombing.

Plus, this guy gets to keep his "points".

The analogy of a suicde bomber in a video game would only work if your account was destroyed when you die... and you so badly wanted to kill one person, that you'd be willing to give up your account for that person's death.


Not really.

The reward has to be as good as the potential loss. If by sacrificing my game to get back at someone, I would be rewarded with 72 new XBox 720's when they came out, then you'd have an appropriate comparison.

Also, the player whom I'm bombing must also be working toward a similar goal, as in if his hard work and climb up the ranking ladder would also reward him with a XBox 720.

The comparison is spot on, in terms of risk vs reward. Little to be gained, little to be lost.

Also, he so elegantly and correctly illustrates as to why many of my friends and I in the "real world" with "real lives" don't play Halo 3 MP. But the 11- to 18-year-old demographic is obviously one with enough purchasing power that the powers that be don't really care.

And neither do I. I'll take my single-player Half-Life 2 and emulated single-player Chrono Trigger over your XBox Live any day. At least then I don't have some prepubescent 12-year-old screaming obscenities at me and questioning my sexuality because I used the wrong attack button on the creature I was fighting.
 
2007-11-05 01:44:15 PM
I thought the article was going to be about rushing someone in kamikaze-style into a crowd in capture the flag, so someone else can come in behind you and steal the flag without getting shot at.

The real article was far more subtle and insightful.
 
2007-11-05 01:47:50 PM
Boy, you got a sticky-bomb on your head...

i22.tinypic.com">
 
2007-11-05 02:17:55 PM
absoluteparanoia: I'm sorry if you suck at playing 2fort.

Anytime pal. I'll be on Dirty Harry's bot server.
 
2007-11-05 02:18:10 PM
downstairs: He's missing one very, very important thing. Real-life suicide bombers don't get extra lives to come back under the same account.

The mindset of a terrorist knows they're going to die- forever- and still does a suicide bombing.


Actually, suicide bombers don't think they're going to die, at least not in the way most rational people do. They don't think they're going to stop existing. They think they are transporting themselves to a much better place.

One of many reasons religion is dangerous. People who don't believe in magic are less likely to think of reasons to throw their life away.
 
2007-11-05 02:28:50 PM
chimp_ninja: People who don't believe in magic are less likely to think of reasons to throw their life away.

Tell it to these guys:

img.verycd.com
 
2007-11-05 02:33:00 PM
hertz2much: What can you learn from playing EverCrack?

Ninja-looting works well if you get a small group in a big raid.

Or did they fix that?
 
2007-11-05 02:38:31 PM
stjohn: CtrlAltDelete: Well... it would be if you just spawned somewhere else on the map. Apparently that doesn't really work in life.

It does if you're a Buddhist or Hindu. You might spawn as an insect or a lower mammal though.


that would be a fun game to play.
 
2007-11-05 02:40:12 PM
downstairs: The analogy of a suicde bomber in a video game would only work if your account was destroyed when you die... and you so badly wanted to kill one person, that you'd be willing to give up your account for that person's death.

If by "that person's death" you mean he would also lose his account then we would have a some what even handed analogy.
 
2007-11-05 02:41:30 PM
The only thing the writer learned from Halo is the standard excuse for sucking at multiplayer. Always remember: you don't have time to sit around and get better, therefore anyone better than you is a loser who sits in his basement playing Halo all the time.
 
2007-11-05 02:42:13 PM
> Submit player review
> avoid this player
> player skill
> lacking skill
 
2007-11-05 02:42:49 PM
tallguywithglasseson: Suicide bomber would be if he somehow took his character from Halo3 and walked into a cafe in second life or something and killed a bunch of unsuspecting noncombatants.

Yea it'll be like if MasterChief left Halo, walked in to a NHL 08/NFL 08/NBA 08 match up and blew up the stadium in a middle of a ranked match between two unsuspecting players.
 
2007-11-05 02:43:56 PM
It is not a legitimate tactic agains civilians.

/ Sbarro
 
Ral
2007-11-05 02:45:45 PM
Of course it's a legitimate tactic, in the logical sense. It's still immoral and counterproductive in the long-term because it destroys the breeding population.
 
2007-11-05 02:47:51 PM
Halo suicide bombing? Gimme a break. Play Battlefield 2142 on a map with battle walkers (or any vehicles) and see if you aren't saying "Derka Derka" by the end.
 
2007-11-05 02:48:28 PM
This tactic only works when the person you've turned and started to run towards to doesn't have a shotgun or other powerful close range weapon. Sure, AR vs AR this is a tactic that will usually lend itself to a kill.

I challenge you to try this shiat on someone running around with a shotty sniper combo that knows what they are doing.
 
2007-11-05 02:48:37 PM
Haven't played Halo 3, but from Battlefield 2 experience, I can see it as a good tactic to get the enemy to change their tactics.

In playing BF2, I used to fill a jeep up with tons of plastic explosives, get in it, and then drive to an enemy base where players would be sitting waiting for stuff to re-spawn.

Drive that sumbiatch right there, hop out (if possible) and then detonate. Would get like 5-10 dumbasses at a time. Eventually they would catch on and mine the surrounding area, but by that time they are defensive and it's a matter of attrition at that point.
 
2007-11-05 02:51:42 PM
Ral: Of course it's a legitimate tactic, in the logical sense. It's still immoral and counterproductive in the long-term because it destroys the breeding population.

Not really. A militaristic cult would allow men to have more than one wife to compensate for gender imbalance due to aggressive warmongering.
 
2007-11-05 02:53:08 PM
Pffft. Halo 3 cribbed that from Battlefield 2 Modern Combat.

We've been using car bombs (throw C4 on a vehicle) and suicide bombers (throw C4 on a teammate) since the beginning.
 
2007-11-05 02:53:55 PM
It took until Halo 3? Seriously, I remember this from Quake 1 Team Fortress. The whole "Hold a grenade for too long," thing was a real good way to stop scouts from getting by you on certain maps. Pretty much SOP for me as an entry guard on 2fort5 was to hold a grenade when a scout was coming out. I'd shoot rockets at him, of course, but in the event he could dodge those I usually had the grenade well timed so that it'd detonate right about when he was running by me. That'd do the trick. If it took me out (didn't always in that game, different classes had different amounts of health) oh well. So long as he didn't get the flag out, I'd succeeded.

Blowing yourself up to take out an enemy has always been something in various shooters, I thought. Sometimes it is just worth it, since in a game all you do is wait a few seconds, then get to play again. Bit more serious in the real world and all.
 
2007-11-05 02:56:02 PM
That is the dumbest, shallowest article I've read in Wired, which is well known for it's dumb, shallow articles.

Uhh... Golf clap, I guess.

The state of game journalism has been set back years by that.

Author experiences catharsis with suicide bombers by playing Halo 3. Will also try to come to understanding of modern office life by being a chicken in an industrial hen house, and the tragedy of breast cancer by sawing the tits off a mannequin. Good on you, mate.

You might get some vague, casual insight, but not so much as if you spent some time... I dunno... THINKING?
 
2007-11-05 02:59:38 PM
Buy the keyboard/mouse adapter. Play an FPS the way it's meant to be played. With a keyboard/mouse you'll walk all over the dweebs with console controllers.

/What's Halo?
/Plays Crysis (Well, when it comes out...)
 
2007-11-05 03:00:26 PM
my outrage is at parents who allow their teenage kids to play 'dozens' of hours of halo a week.
 
2007-11-05 03:00:54 PM
So...xbox live has a system to pit n00bz against n00bz and the l33t d00dz are taking advantage of it to pwn said n00bz?
 
2007-11-05 03:01:04 PM
Battlefield 2 was the best for suicide bombings. Especially as USMC with the really fast buggy. Sometimes you'll hit a group of enemy tanks and IFVs/APCs and take out a dozen people.
 
2007-11-05 03:01:36 PM
I use that tactic when someone is hording a powerful melee weapon, like the sword or hammer. Being dead isn't a strong deterrent, as long as you get that kill.

In the real world, I think his point is valid. If one side has overwhelming superiority with approved or conventional tactics, the other side will find something outside the box. The only way to stop the terrorists is to drain the supply of disaffected teenaged boys. Probably through getting them started downloading porn.
 
2007-11-05 03:04:18 PM
Halo 3 has the worst online set up I've ever seen in my life. I can't even fathom why people talk about this game like it's the holy grail of online play.

Just felt like throwing that out there.
 
2007-11-05 03:05:02 PM
Red_October
Ah, good old jihad jeeps. Its so damned effective that people have to make up reasons to hate it that don't make them sound like whining pussys.

/still a dick move
//but it works
 
2007-11-05 03:05:05 PM
What definites a "legitimate" tactic? Terrorists are not soldiers in the strict sense of the word. They do not belong to a single, well regulated army which would engage in combat with set rules and behaviour.

If I (being somebody not in a regular military force) want to inflict damage on you, take action which is intended to cause you to take damage, then my tactics are legitimate.

Depending on what actions I take, they could be called immoral, or innefectual, but the legitimacy of the tactic is only definable by whether or or not it is part of my overall strategy, rather than by any outside ruleset.

I think we need to concentrate less on the specific tactics (and the status of their legitimacy), and more on why said tactics are seen as worth employing.
 
2007-11-05 03:09:40 PM
OlafTheBent: Anytime pal. I'll be on Dirty Harry's bot server.

You play under this SN? I use this one.
 
2007-11-05 03:10:19 PM
absoluteparanoia: OlafTheBent: Anytime pal. I'll be on Dirty Harry's bot server.

You play under this SN? I use this one.


By which I mean TF2, I don't know if you're still using classic.
 
2007-11-05 03:12:18 PM
Fellows: The reward has to be as good as the potential loss. If by sacrificing my game to get back at someone, I would be rewarded with 72 new XBox 720's when they came out, then you'd have an appropriate comparison.

72 is incidently enough the number of X-Box 720s you'd need to have a chance of getting one that works for more than a week.
 
2007-11-05 03:13:54 PM
absoluteparanoia: OlafTheBent: Jeez... welcome to 2fort.

I'm sorry if you suck at playing 2fort.


Try lazytown with instarespawn.
 
2007-11-05 03:13:55 PM
Ral "in the long-term because it destroys the breeding population."

Just send your genetically inferior on the suicide missions. Everyone wins.
 
2007-11-05 03:14:25 PM
thats pretty good...i've done that as well...but with ROCKETS...triple kill X3, 9 kills three deaths...

when i saw the headline i thought he was talking about the suicide bomber grunts...
 
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