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(The Sun)   The wussification of the UK continues, as a man who tackled drunken teen for attempting to break into his house and then turned the teen over to police is arrested for assulting the teen   (thesun.co.uk) divider line 414
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10792 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Nov 2007 at 10:59 AM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-11-04 11:40:42 AM
Lenny_da_Hog: We'd like to go back to the one that SAVED YOUR ASSES IN WWII.
You remember us saving your asses in WWII, right?


Yes, and we Aussies have been paying for it by tagging along on every half-baked fight America has got itself into since ;) The Brits have just tagged along on most of them, sensibly declining the invitation to Vietnam.
 
2007-11-04 11:40:42 AM
mikaloyd: meekychuppet:

He assaulted him a good distance away from his house. If it happened in the house then that's one thing but running him down when he's fleeing is premeditated assault.



More like justice in this case. The man says he didnt hit the yob. The theiving yob says the man hit him. You naturally side with the drunken theiving coont while I naturally side with the guy who did not start any of this.


And this.
 
2007-11-04 11:41:01 AM
mikaloyd: More like justice in this case. The man says he didnt hit the yob. The theiving yob says the man hit him. You naturally side with the drunken theiving coont while I naturally side with the guy who did not start any of this.

I'm glad to see that we treat the use of deadly force just like a regular schoolyard brawl where "the one who started it" is always at fault, and the one who didn't start it has unlimited license to use whatever degree of force they choose. Unless we're talking about the Jena 6.
 
2007-11-04 11:41:22 AM
SlothB77

that is one reason not to live in the UK

Here's the problem: people who have the skills that would allow them to leave the UK live in the areas of town where this is rarely a problem.

Talk to left-wing "these troubled youths are victims of society" people and I guarantee that they live in a good part of town.

My solution is simple: every elected MP has to spend 1/3rd of their weekends with their families living in the most crime-ridden estate in their constituency. That would soon sort things out.
 
2007-11-04 11:41:36 AM
mdcrews: How is tackling someone use of deadly force? In America, that's called Monday Night Football!

In Britain they play fuuuuutball. If your opponent flails his arms and collapses to the ground in a heap, it is your fault.

/yellow card and all that
//except for rugby. It's cool.
 
2007-11-04 11:42:18 AM
hipsellipsis: hipsellipsis: I just came here to make an ad hominem attack on MeekyChuppet.

I'm an ex-pat Brit and so, so glad not to be living around people with your mentality any more.

You violate my family's space, you pay dearly. No, I'm not an internet tough guy. And don't accuse me of not valuing life. I do value life to the highest degree; that is why I consider a invasion of one's home sanctuary akin to a rape.

Kill 100 intruders, you'll soon find out that burglary drops off to negligible levels. I don't know anyone in the US who has been burglarized.

This


'This'-ing yourself? How very modest you are about your opinions!
 
2007-11-04 11:42:25 AM
buckler

Wow. So in the UK, anyone can do whatever they like to you, and suffer no penalties as long as they run away afterwards? Sounds like I may need a new career in the British Isles.

Maybe you should start over at few of these apologists houses?
 
2007-11-04 11:43:46 AM
If someone is breaking into your house, you should be able to shoot them.

I have no desire to harm any other human being- but if someone is breaking into my home, I'm not going to just wait to try and figure out why they're doing that. If I knew for a fact they were just there for my TV, sure, I'd just hide and call the cops; my TV is not worth a life. ....problem is, I don't know if they're just there for my TV, or if they're going to hurt me in the process.

The shoot first laws put the power into the victim's hands; I like that.
 
2007-11-04 11:44:02 AM
tarquinrainbowtrout: cerberus9: tarquinrainbowtrout: cerberus9: tarquinrainbowtrout: cerberus9: They all drink American Budweiser in the UK now.

i'm going to burn one of your precious yank flags for that comment

So you're denying that American Budweiser is not the most popular beer in the UK?

yup, i looked it up yesterday - it's carling by miles, then stella, carlsberg and kronenbourg i don't know why you think we drink 'bud'

Really? This would be a pleasant surprise.

I was in the UK a few years ago (London, Scotland), and the only thing that the locals drank was "Bud". Maybe there's hope for you yet...

what bars/pubs did you go to? the scottish drink Tennent's mostly, and you've got bitter and ale (warm beer) which are still very popular, budweiser is pretty rare


I dunno. It seemed like it was the same in all of the pubs. (I myself drank Tennet's in Scotland). At the places I went to (near the Marble Arch in London, Orkey Islands), Budweiser was definitely not rare. Was this perhaps a short-lived fad?
 
2007-11-04 11:44:05 AM
I can't believe people are actually defending the little shat.. I hope he tries to break into your home next, and then I hope you AREN'T there to stop him.
 
2007-11-04 11:44:29 AM
PapermonkeyExpress: Lenny_da_Hog
...but the reality is, is that if you didn't know them you wouldn't be able to tell one walking down the street.


Oh, I know that, especially where I'm from. Alaskan law says *everyone* gets concealed carry by default (it can be taken away), and that cities laws can't supersede that law.

Of course, we have lots of very large animals that can eat you....

/"That .45 ain't gonna stop no brown bear!"
//"I don't have to outrun the bear. I just have to outrun *you*"
 
2007-11-04 11:45:48 AM
jackbooty: I can't believe people are actually defending the little shat.. I hope he tries to break into your home next, and then I hope you AREN'T there to stop him.

I've had my house broken into twice, once while out and once while home asleep. While it is an unpleasant experience, I never once thought that the person wanted to do anything more than steal things to pawn. 'Wouldn't it be great if I could shoot them!' never crossed my mind.
 
2007-11-04 11:47:24 AM
LocalCynic: mikaloyd: More like justice in this case. The man says he didnt hit the yob. The theiving yob says the man hit him. You naturally side with the drunken theiving coont while I naturally side with the guy who did not start any of this.

I'm glad to see that we treat the use of deadly force just like a regular schoolyard brawl where "the one who started it" is always at fault, and the one who didn't start it has unlimited license to use whatever degree of force they choose. Unless we're talking about the Jena 6.


I'm interested to know where in the hell you think deadly force was injected into all of this?
 
2007-11-04 11:48:20 AM
cerberus9: tarquinrainbowtrout: cerberus9: tarquinrainbowtrout: cerberus9: tarquinrainbowtrout: cerberus9: They all drink American Budweiser in the UK now.

i'm going to burn one of your precious yank flags for that comment

So you're denying that American Budweiser is not the most popular beer in the UK?

yup, i looked it up yesterday - it's carling by miles, then stella, carlsberg and kronenbourg i don't know why you think we drink 'bud'

Really? This would be a pleasant surprise.

I was in the UK a few years ago (London, Scotland), and the only thing that the locals drank was "Bud". Maybe there's hope for you yet...

what bars/pubs did you go to? the scottish drink Tennent's mostly, and you've got bitter and ale (warm beer) which are still very popular, budweiser is pretty rare

I dunno. It seemed like it was the same in all of the pubs. (I myself drank Tennet's in Scotland). At the places I went to (near the Marble Arch in London, Orkey Islands), Budweiser was definitely not rare. Was this perhaps a short-lived fad?


maybe, depends on the year i guess, there were those frogs in the 90s i think, and there were neon signs that said budweiser everywhere so i expect it was more common, doubt it was ever the top beer tho, and everybody soon realised it sucked - maybe it was trendy, corona is trendy beer now
 
2007-11-04 11:48:28 AM
Harriet Vane: 'This'-ing yourself? How very modest you are about your opinions!

Hahahahahhaha! pwned
 
2007-11-04 11:48:37 AM
Regarding the Popularity of Bud in England...


Well, I don't really have anything to add...

but when I lived in Dublin in the '90s, the beer of choice for yuppies seemd to be bottled Bud, which struck this yank as a bit funny.

/prefered Bulmer's on tap when out and about and 2 liter bottles of Linden Village when hanging in for the evening.
 
2007-11-04 11:49:13 AM
Harriet Vane


I've had my house broken into twice, once while out and once while home asleep. While it is an unpleasant experience, I never once thought that the person wanted to do anything more than steal things to pawn.

Wow. Just Wow.

I pray your luck continues to hold out.
 
2007-11-04 11:49:22 AM
Harriet Vane: 'Wouldn't it be great if I could shoot them!' never crossed my mind.

The vast majority of gun owners don't think this way, no matter how much you with it to be true.
 
2007-11-04 11:49:48 AM
Harriet Vane: I've had my house broken into twice, once while out and once while home asleep. While it is an unpleasant experience, I never once thought that the person wanted to do anything more than steal things to pawn. 'Wouldn't it be great if I could shoot them!' never crossed my mind.


"Wouldn't it be great if I could shoot them!" never came out of my mouth, I said STOP him. God forbid the guy chased him and gave him to the police, it just isn't right that he wanted the punk to have to be responsible for his actions.
 
2007-11-04 11:49:55 AM
I'll bet the pigs in the U.K. wouldn't be so pushy if they didn't have gun control. Respect for the average citizen flies out of the window when the citizen can't defend themselves.
 
2007-11-04 11:49:57 AM
meekychuppet: you clearly haven't read the article. The guy chased him and dragged him back to the police. If memory serves a citizen's arrest can only be made when the crime carries a sentence of 5 years (might be 10). I doubt that "hanging from a window ledge" is a serious threat to anyone's home.

If he had reasonable suspicion that a burglary was in progress, then he was within his rights to arrest the man until police arrived. See the Police and Criminal Evidence Act, Part III, Section 24. The relevant question here is did the guy have reasonable grounds to suspect a burglary or other indictable offense. If so, he had the right to make an arrest. If not, then he did not.
 
2007-11-04 11:50:31 AM
LocalCynic: I'm glad to see that we treat the use of deadly force just like a regular schoolyard brawl where "the one who started it" is always at fault, and the one who didn't start it has unlimited license to use whatever degree of force they choose. Unless we're talking about the Jena 6.

i231.photobucket.com


ummm, nobody claims use of "deadly force." This was not a deadly force issue. I am sure if this guy had attempted deadly force, the intruder would be in the hospital. He apprehended the kid.

/Used to be that if a kid didn't get proper parenting at home, it was acceptable if some other adult metered it out.
//guy won't serve a day for this.
///nothing to see here, move along
 
2007-11-04 11:52:02 AM
PapermonkeyExpress: Wow. Just Wow.

I pray your luck continues to hold out.


Well, we don't have home invasions, murders or gun crime to anywhere near the level of the USA. The offenders are generally kids in their early to mid teens who are after things to sell, usually to pay for drugs. The chances of someone who breaks into your house having a firearm are pretty damn slim in Australia simply because they are hard to get. Unless you offend someone in the drug underworld of Sydney or Melbourne, you're right.
 
2007-11-04 11:52:19 AM
Guess in america he would just have been sued.
 
2007-11-04 11:52:24 AM
keylock71: Regarding the Popularity of Bud in England...


Well, I don't really have anything to add...

but when I lived in Dublin in the '90s, the beer of choice for yuppies seemd to be bottled Bud, which struck this yank as a bit funny.

/prefered Bulmer's on tap when out and about and 2 liter bottles of Linden Village when hanging in for the evening.


to be a pedant i'll just point out dublin is ireland, not far away, but wrong country and i found this (on wiki admittedly): In Ireland, Budweiser is one of the leading lager brands; it is brewed, marketed, and sold by Guinness. - makes sense
 
2007-11-04 11:54:50 AM
FeBolas: The vast majority of gun owners don't think this way, no matter how much you with it to be true.

I've read more than one Fark thread where you could see a not insignificant number of posters salivating over what they would do in the situation. While I appreciate not all gun owners have that mentality, it's hardly only one or two that do.

jackbooty: "Wouldn't it be great if I could shoot them!" never came out of my mouth, I said STOP him. God forbid the guy chased him and gave him to the police, it just isn't right that he wanted the punk to have to be responsible for his actions.

Well, it seems there was some beating involved between the chasing and the handing to the police. If you're not doing it in self-defence, that's assault. If the guy was putting up a fight, the correct thing to do is to let the police deal with it given that they are statutorily empowered to do things the average citizen is not.
 
2007-11-04 11:55:24 AM
I own several guns, and every time I look at them, I pray to non-existant gods that I am never forced to use one against another human being. I don't ever want blood on my hands, even if I am 100% justified in taking that life.
 
2007-11-04 11:56:20 AM
He was breaking the law. Every citizen should have the right to chase and detain until the police arrive regardless of the infraction.
 
2007-11-04 11:56:46 AM
Harriet Vane: jackbooty: I can't believe people are actually defending the little shat.. I hope he tries to break into your home next, and then I hope you AREN'T there to stop him.

I've had my house broken into twice, once while out and once while home asleep. While it is an unpleasant experience, I never once thought that the person wanted to do anything more than steal things to pawn. 'Wouldn't it be great if I could shoot them!' never crossed my mind.


What did, pray tell? "Oh, hello old chap! Here to burgle the place, are you? Damned bad luck for me tonight, eh? Well, since you're well on about it, then, the wallet's in my trousers over there...sorry about the take, damned taxes you know. Haven't gotten around to the plasma TV yet, but the old one's over there in the corner; ought to fetch a few quid in any event. There's a few bottles of Watney's in the kitchen if you're thirsty - can't have been easy work on the window. Say, I think there's a few settings of my great-grandmother's Sterling service lying about; let me see if I can't get them out for you..."
 
2007-11-04 11:57:55 AM
tarquinrainbowtrout

to be a pedant i'll just point out dublin is ireland, not far away, but wrong country and i found this (on wiki admittedly): In Ireland, Budweiser is one of the leading lager brands; it is brewed, marketed, and sold by Guinness. - makes sense

..and that would be why I stated I didn't have anything to add to the discussion about the popularity of Bud in England. : )


Truthfully, the Budweiser in Ireland did taste better than it's american coutnerpart, but it was still piss-water compared to some of the other choices available.
 
2007-11-04 11:58:20 AM
mmm... pancake: He was breaking the law. Every citizen should have the right to chase and detain until the police arrive regardless of the infraction.

It's not the role of citizens to determine who is and isn't breaking the law. And how serious does the infraction have to be? Can I attempt to detain you for jaywalking until I can hand you over to the police? If you run away and put up a struggle, can I attempt to subdue you? There's a reason that the job of meting out justice is not in the hands of the masses.
 
2007-11-04 11:58:37 AM
Harriet Vane

Whether or not the burglar has a gun or not is irrelevant. He is in your house, while YOU SLEEP, and you don't have a problem with this?? You don't see the danger in ANY OF THIS?

You are absolutely LOST.

God Bless you, and I really hope your luck holds out. You are not only a victim, but a willing one at that.

What will you do if the next time, the kid is not just interested in taking just your stuff?

Wow.
 
2007-11-04 11:59:03 AM
The Brits began disarming their public of firearms well before WWII. In the dark days of 1940, they had sweet fark all to defend the island from the Germans as the British Army had left almost all of their weapons behind at Dunkirk. I've seen reproductions of posters from the time posted in the US begging American civilians to donate their privately owned firearms to the British for self defense. Luckily, the RAF held together with duct tape and prayer, otherwise...

Compare to the Swiss, land of expert civilian riflemen, only European country to avoid attack in either world war.

Guns, pft, who needs em'. Let's just ignore history and hope for the best.
 
2007-11-04 11:59:47 AM
Harriet Vane: I've read more than one Fark thread where you could see a not insignificant number of posters salivating over what they would do in the situation. While I appreciate not all gun owners have that mentality, it's hardly only one or two that do.

I try to make it into as many gun threads as possible, to show that there are in fact some sane gun owners, but I don't think I've ever seen more than 3 of the "internet tough guy" gun owners in the same thread.... it's just that the post a lot. I think that the actual scary gun owners are much less common in real life than the internet would make it seem. In fact, I'm not worried about those guys- I'm worried about stupid gun owners: the ones that leave their guns loaded in their drawer with kids in the house, the ones that wave a gun at someone who offended them in traffic, and so on.
 
2007-11-04 12:00:01 PM
Harriet Vane: If the guy was putting up a fight, the correct thing to do is to let the police deal with it given that they are statutorily empowered to do things the average citizen is not.

Empowered by whom? Where exactly do they get their powers? From the people, no? How do the people delegate a power that they do not possess themselves?
 
2007-11-04 12:00:24 PM
buckler: What did, pray tell? "Oh, hello old chap! Here to burgle the place, are you? Damned bad luck for me tonight, eh? Well, since you're well on about it, then, the wallet's in my trousers over there...sorry about the take, damned taxes you know. Haven't gotten around to the plasma TV yet, but the old one's over there in the corner; ought to fetch a few quid in any event. There's a few bottles of Watney's in the kitchen if you're thirsty - can't have been easy work on the window. Say, I think there's a few settings of my great-grandmother's Sterling service lying about; let me see if I can't get them out for you..."

No "stuff" is worth hurting or killing someone over. It's just STUFF, people. If thieves broke into my place and all they wanted was my TV, I would consider myself LUCKY and hold the door for him while he walked out.

Save the Rambo tactics for when someone breaks in intent on hurting your family.

Internet tough guys. All of you.
 
2007-11-04 12:00:32 PM
choice and consequence: Compare to the Swiss, land of expert civilian riflemen, only European country to avoid attack in either world war.

I have a Swiss K31- it's an amazing rifle.
 
2007-11-04 12:00:35 PM
buckler: What did, pray tell? "Oh, hello old chap! Here to burgle the place, are you? Damned bad luck for me tonight, eh? Well, since you're well on about it, then, the wallet's in my trousers over there...sorry about the take, damned taxes you know. Haven't gotten around to the plasma TV yet, but the old one's over there in the corner; ought to fetch a few quid in any event. There's a few bottles of Watney's in the kitchen if you're thirsty - can't have been easy work on the window. Say, I think there's a few settings of my great-grandmother's Sterling service lying about; let me see if I can't get them out for you..."

I was asleep at the time for the one where I was home. The first thing that crossed my mind on both occasions was 'call the police'. If it had happened while I was awake, it would have been 'call the police and lock myself in the bathroom until they arrive'. Everything is insured and there's no point escalating the situation by trying to be a hero.
 
2007-11-04 12:01:50 PM
Harriet Vane: mmm... pancake: He was breaking the law. Every citizen should have the right to chase and detain until the police arrive regardless of the infraction.

It's not the role of citizens to determine who is and isn't breaking the law. And how serious does the infraction have to be? Can I attempt to detain you for jaywalking until I can hand you over to the police? If you run away and put up a struggle, can I attempt to subdue you? There's a reason that the job of meting out justice is not in the hands of the masses.


While I agree with your point that citizens shouldn't be allowed to detain others for minor offenses like jaywalking (or smoking a joint), it is NOT the job of police to mete out justice.

That's why we have a court system.
 
2007-11-04 12:02:33 PM
choice and consequence:

Compare to the Swiss, land of expert civilian riflemen, only European country to avoid attack in either world war.


that is possibly the most 'unique' view on the swiss i've ever seen and uh, spain and sweden aren't in europe?
 
2007-11-04 12:03:23 PM
cerberus9

I dunno. It seemed like it was the same in all of the pubs. (I myself drank Tennet's in Scotland). At the places I went to (near the Marble Arch in London, Orkey Islands), Budweiser was definitely not rare. Was this perhaps a short-lived fad?

You wouldn't commonly get Bud on tap in a pub - Scotland is typically Carling/Tennents/Stella with the obligatory Guiness and one or two Heavies. Folk do drink bottles of Bud at home/parties - but generally wouldn't in a pub (£2.50 min for a bottle in a pub, compared to £2.60 for a pint of draught - well I sure as fark wouldn't, pubs are for draught not bottles IMO).

The reason for drinking bottles of bud is just 'cos it's clean tasting - it's your bog standard bottled beer, that even folk/women who don't like beer would drink.

The "trend" at teh moment (Glasgow anyway) is for Belgian/German/Polish beers.

Anyhoo.. that asides - assault is assualt. There must be more to the story. Also, the kid hadn't actually committed a crime - so there can be no defence to say that in the act of apprahending the "criminal" I had to punch/kick/banjo the offender to stop him escaping. And the law is pretty much black and white in that respect.

It'd be highly unlikely that you'd be arrested for assaulting someone who broke into your property. In this case, the kid broke no laws (as far as we know), but the blundering baffoon chasing him down the street did.
 
2007-11-04 12:03:43 PM
Harriet Vane: It's not the role of citizens to determine who is and isn't breaking the law. And how serious does the infraction have to be? Can I attempt to detain you for jaywalking until I can hand you over to the police? If you run away and put up a struggle, can I attempt to subdue you? There's a reason that the job of meting out justice is not in the hands of the masses.

If the infraction is an attempt to deprive someone of their right to life, liberty, or property it's serious enough to involve citizen action. Government police forces are not efficient enough to be able to catch every criminal.
 
2007-11-04 12:03:46 PM
PapermonkeyExpress: Harriet Vane

Whether or not the burglar has a gun or not is irrelevant. He is in your house, while YOU SLEEP, and you don't have a problem with this?? You don't see the danger in ANY OF THIS?

You are absolutely LOST.

God Bless you, and I really hope your luck holds out. You are not only a victim, but a willing one at that.

What will you do if the next time, the kid is not just interested in taking just your stuff?

Wow.


No, because burglars in Australia are there for your things. I would be hard pressed to recall the last time I read about a sexual assault or other violence during a break-in. I used to work filing police reports onto a mainframe database. They are kids who want your PS2, TV and DVDs. It's more dangerous to attempt to confront them and start something than to just let them take your shiat. It's just stuff. It is replaceable. Individual people are not.
 
2007-11-04 12:05:20 PM
stiletto_the_wise: buckler: What did, pray tell? "Oh, hello old chap! Here to burgle the place, are you? Damned bad luck for me tonight, eh? Well, since you're well on about it, then, the wallet's in my trousers over there...sorry about the take, damned taxes you know. Haven't gotten around to the plasma TV yet, but the old one's over there in the corner; ought to fetch a few quid in any event. There's a few bottles of Watney's in the kitchen if you're thirsty - can't have been easy work on the window. Say, I think there's a few settings of my great-grandmother's Sterling service lying about; let me see if I can't get them out for you..."

No "stuff" is worth hurting or killing someone over. It's just STUFF, people. If thieves broke into my place and all they wanted was my TV, I would consider myself LUCKY and hold the door for him while he walked out.

Save the Rambo tactics for when someone breaks in intent on hurting your family.

Internet tough guys. All of you.


It's not about the stuff. It's about the right to be peacefully left alone in one's own home. I'm far from being an internet tough guy, but I do believe my rights are inviolable, and if at all possible, they're not going to be interrupted by some young punk with a crank habit who feels they can waltz into my place and help themselves to my space and my possesions.
 
2007-11-04 12:06:46 PM
mud_shark: While I agree with your point that citizens shouldn't be allowed to detain others for minor offenses like jaywalking (or smoking a joint), it is NOT the job of police to mete out justice.

That's why we have a court system.


I didn't say it was the role of the police to mete out justice. It is their role to prefer charges or to assist prosecutors in preferring charges after investigating an offence and arresting an offender.

And who draws the line about what is and is not an acceptable law to break? What happens to someone who collars the wrong person even in one of the more serious offence categories and assaults them in the course of attempting to detain them? Joe Bloggs is not trained in it. That is why we as a society train people to do this job especially and pay them for it.
 
2007-11-04 12:07:35 PM
stiletto_the_wise:
No "stuff" is worth hurting or killing someone over. It's just STUFF, people. If thieves broke into my place and all they wanted was my TV, I would consider myself LUCKY and hold the door for him while he walked out.

Save the Rambo tactics for when someone breaks in intent on hurting your family.

Internet tough guys. All of you.


1. Stuff is worth hurting someone over. I would rather be punched in the face than go to work for a week.

2. If someone breaks in you can't ask them if they're there to burgle or murder. Assume the worst.
 
2007-11-04 12:08:56 PM
hipsellipsis:
Kill 100 intruders, you'll soon find out that burglary drops off to negligible levels. I don't know anyone in the US who has been burglarized.

The US has about 7 reported burglaries per 1000 people a year. That's about half compared to the UK, but still more than France, The Netherlands and many other countries, and far from negligible.
source
 
2007-11-04 12:09:32 PM
meekychuppet: Assulting? Thanks for highlighting your intelligence level their dumbassmitter.

By the way, it's The Sun. Despite the penchant Farkers have for racial stereotyping I can assure you that it didn't happen the way it was reported in The Sun, but don't let silly old rality dsampen your stupidity


Rally? Are you rally sure you want to take someone to task for their stupidity? I hate to dsampen your spirits, but 'their' != 'there'. Also, you stink. That is all.

Thanks,
The Management
 
2007-11-04 12:09:43 PM
stiletto_the_wise: If thieves broke into my place and all they wanted was my TV, I would consider myself LUCKY and hold the door for him while he walked out.

Communist.
 
2007-11-04 12:10:40 PM
Harriet Vane: They are kids who want your PS2, TV and DVDs.

I don't know about Australia, but here in the States we work very hard to afford the things we want to buy. When some punk tries to take somebody's new HD tv I don't see it as just as television. See, that television was bought with money that may have taken that person months to earn in a deadend job. When the punks take that TV they are taking a piece of that person's life.
 
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