GurneyHalleck: Does the tread count as Godwined when the subject of the article is the one to invoke visions of Nazis?

To me it invoked visions of Saddam's regime - the last group known to gas the Kurds.

Forgot to add: though the article made no mention of gassing anyone.

You know who else liked to gas people?

Speaking after meeting with both Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Foreign Minister Ali Babacan, Rice said she had emphasized that the United States is "committed to redoubling its efforts" to help Turkey in its struggle against the rebel fighters.

"We consider this a common threat, not just to the interests of Turkey but to the interests of the United States as well,"


I imagine that this is a very similar conversation to the one that Don Rumsfeld had with Saddam in the 1980s, only subbing in "Iraq" for "Turkey".

Did I miss where the article mentioned "gassing"? Or is subby just trying to inflame something?

binnster: GurneyHalleck: Does the tread count as Godwined when the subject of the article is the one to invoke visions of Nazis?

To me it invoked visions of Saddam's regime - the last group known to gas the Kurds.

To me it invoked visions of the Reagan Administration being A-OK with the Hussein regime gassing the Kurds, but members of the same Administration (once they'd moved on to the Bush II Administration) using the gassing as justification for invading Iraq.

Hence the Ironic tag, I'm assuming (I'm not the submitter)...

subby took a left turn and is out in the weeds...

What is she, little Miss Muffet?

(She has Kurds in her way...)

MMMMMMMMMM..Turkey and rice.

Jonny Wilkinson: Did I miss where the article mentioned "gassing"? Or is subby just trying to inflame something?

I didn't see any mention of gassing either..

Wasn't Saddam using gas the United States gave him when he killed his batch of Kurds?

all of this talk of rice, turkey, and kurds is getting in the whey of the fact that no gassing was mentioned in the article. Godwin is only funny when it is a bit of a stretch BTW.

Awesome troll, subby! Got the neos screeching like baboons!

Rice is talking... Is hot air not a gas?

The more idiocy I see from these Arab people, the more upset I am that we removed Saddam. These people are all shiat, they deserved everything he put them through.

This Thanksgiving we'er having Turkish rebels, Turkey, Kurdish rebels Kurds and Whey and, of course, rice.

"We consider this a common threat treat, not just to the interests of Turkey but to the interests of the United States those in Hungary as well,"

*facepalm*

Condi, you worthless slag, the Kurds are the closest thing to "allies" that you guys currently have in Iraq. It figures you'd find a way to screw it up.

How bout gassing them with nitrous oxide? Then they
would be happy kurds, not angry kurds.

The Greatest American Frampton: Wasn't Saddam using gas the United States gave him when he killed his batch of Kurds?

"people fall into favor, people fall out of favor..."
"you know how it is..."

ChicagoJohn: The more idiocy I see from these Arab people, the more upset I am that we removed Saddam. These people are all shiat, they deserved everything he put them through.

That's some nice trollin' there

They could send over my wifes chili. I gassed up the conference room at the office yesterday with it.

News Flash

Republicans, democrats, liberals, right wing christian groups, all know Rice has been a disaster for foreign policy from the day she took the position.

ChicagoJohn: The more idiocy I see from these Arab people, the more upset I am that we removed Saddam. These people are all shiat, they deserved everything he put them through.

I'm just pissed about how much it cost us.

As much as I like the pipedream of a free, democratic USA loving nation smack dab in the heart of the Middle East, it is too expensive even if we do accomplish this mission.

ChicagoJohn: The more idiocy I see from these Arab people, the more upset I am that we removed Saddam. These people are all shiat, they deserved everything he put them through.

Hindsight 20/20 and all that.....

Ya know if somebody had just been Un-Pc enough and believable enough who told us that someone like Saddam was the only way to keep Iraq from just going ape-shiite crazy we probably wouldnt be in this mess. Now its common sense though, to keep Iraqi's in line and to prevent them from just slaughtering each other you have to torture and kill them on a scale even larger than we are doing now.

/now i'm wondering what it will be like when we knock out the rulers of Iran and Saudi Arabia. Now that should be a epic sized clusterfark.

In fact , Turkey doesn't want to admit having commited genocide against the Armenians in 1915 so as not to have to say "We won't do it again". Because they want to keep this option open to solve their "Kurd Problem".

The Greatest American Frampton: Wasn't Saddam using gas the United States gave him when he killed his batch of Kurds?

Short answer: No, but American companies unwittingly helped

Long answer, blatantly stolen from the wiki entry:

According Iraq's report to the UN, the know-how and material for developing chemical weapons were obtained from firms in such countries as: the United States, West Germany, the United Kingdom, France and China.[1] By far, the largest suppliers of precursors for chemical weapons production were in Singapore (4,515 tons), the Netherlands (4,261 tons), Egypt (2,400 tons), India (2,343 tons), and West Germany (1,027 tons). One Indian company, Exomet Plastics (now part of EPC Industrie) sent 2,292 tons of precursor chemicals to Iraq. The Kim Al-Khaleej firm, located in Singapore and affiliated to United Arab Emirates, supplied more than 4,500 tons of VX, sarin, and mustard gas precursors and production equipment to Iraq.[2] While some U.S. companies provided chemical precursors to the Iraqi chemical weapons program, United States companies did not play the primary role in developing Iraq's chemical weapons program. [3] [4] German companies were the primary source of chemicals for Iraq's weapon program.[5][3] The provision of chemical precursors from US companies to Iraq was enabled by a Reagan administration policy that removed Iraq from the State Department's list State Sponsors of Terrorism. Leaked portions of Iraq's "Full, Final and Complete" disclosure of the sources for its weapons programs shows that thiodiglycol, a substance needed to manufacture deadly mustard gas, was among the chemical precursors provided to Iraq from U.S.companies such as Alcolac International, Inc and Phillips. Both companies have since undergone reorganization and Phillips, once a subsidiary of Phillips Petroleum and now part of ConocoPhillips, an American oil and energy company while Alcolac Intl. has since dissolved and reformed as Alcolac Inc., . [6]

"Condoleezza Rice is nice but I prefer a-roni."

/THE MOB GOES WILD, WILD, WILD!
//got nuthin'

This wasn't a Godwin.
I got right away that Subby was referencing the fact that we used Saddam's unjustified abuse of the Kurdish Freedom Fighters (tm) in the north as one of the main justifications for the overthrow of his regime and occupation of his country.

It's ironic that we would then realize that he was just trying to defend his country from this group of Terrorist Kurdish Rebels (also tm) and now realize that even though we're not going to gas them, we're going to subjugate them with military force.

Being a layman, I have a hard time comprehending how it was possible for so many people in our upper government to fail during the process of realizing that military force is the only way to keep a culture like that one from erupting into violence constantly.
Yeah, that IS a bit of a pickle isn't it? That they're so violent you can only keep them from killing everyone around them by use of violence.
So just do the world a favor and either kill them all, or just contain them and let them kill each other.

Jeesh, the Kurds just can't catch a break can they.

Condi just hit em with the GAS FACE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CAUzdoFEao

Dubb-ya Tea Eff?

Kurds get all the love it seems, first Americans have Saddam gas them, and now, since they killed Saddam for gassing him, they are doing it themselves? Who will be the scapegoat? My mind is trying to divide by zero. Impossibility arg ouch help.

I loved the headline subby. All those who dont get it need to do history research and understand what sarcasim is, or just crawl back into your hole.

orclover: ChicagoJohn: The more idiocy I see from these Arab people, the more upset I am that we removed Saddam. These people are all shiat, they deserved everything he put them through.

Hindsight 20/20 and all that.....

Ya know if somebody had just been Un-Pc enough and believable enough who told us that someone like Saddam was the only way to keep Iraq from just going ape-shiite crazy we probably wouldnt be in this mess. Now its common sense though, to keep Iraqi's in line and to prevent them from just slaughtering each other you have to torture and kill them on a scale even larger than we are doing now.
/now i'm wondering what it will be like when we knock out the rulers of Iran and Saudi Arabia. Now that should be a epic sized clusterfark.

I've been saying that about Iraq for years. That is why I reasoned that we did not oust Saddam in the 1st gulf war.
Britain knew what they were doing back in the day.

Aevum Quote 2007-11-02 01:18:05 PM
This wasn't a Godwin.
I got right away that Subby was referencing the fact that we used Saddam's unjustified abuse of the Kurdish Freedom Fighters (tm) in the north as one of the main justifications for the overthrow of his regime and occupation of his country.

It's ironic that we would then realize that he was just trying to defend his country from this group of Terrorist Kurdish Rebels (also tm) and now realize that even though we're not going to gas them, we're going to subjugate them with military force.

Being a layman, I have a hard time comprehending how it was possible for so many people in our upper government to fail during the process of realizing that military force is the only way to keep a culture like that one from erupting into violence constantly.
Yeah, that IS a bit of a pickle isn't it? That they're so violent you can only keep them from killing everyone around them by use of violence.
So just do the world a favor and either kill them all, or just contain them and let them kill each other.

You think these people are a violent lot, check out USA statistics on gun deaths and violence in the U.S.. Makes these people look like peace loving virgins.

But, of course, we sold weapons to Iraq (nowhere near as much as the Soviets, China, France and Egypt) and provided anthrax bacillus (supposedly for agricultural research, but...well...you know).

Clearly we were pulling for Iraq in the Iran-Iraq war -- we sent them billions in aid and "dual-use" technology (helicopters, chemicals and computers).

Aren't these the same Kurds, who after Desert Storm, we were "protecting"? No wonder nobody likes us....same thing after the former Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan, and we pulled our support for the "freedom fighters" there....created another group that hates the U.S.

The Glass Dragon: "Condoleezza Rice is nice but I prefer a-roni."

/THE MOB GOES WILD, WILD, WILD!
//got nuthin'

"Please allow me to adjust my pants, so that I may dance the good time dance."

/Blast Tyrant will always be somethin'

Did someone mention Condoleeza Rice?

On page 375 of the St. Martin's Press paperback edition of the "9/11 Report" by the "National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States" is a security briefing paper presented to Bush and Condi Rice on August 6, 2001, that was entitled "Bin Laden Determined to Strike In U.S."

The report indicated that "FBI information ...indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks."

You know the saying "couldn't pour water out of a boot if the instructions were printed on the bottom of it"? That's Condi in a nutshell. dumb.as.dirt.

angryatgwb
You think these people are a violent lot, check out USA statistics on gun deaths and violence in the U.S.. Makes these people look like peace loving virgins.

Where's that opera guy to sing "Mistaaaaake" at you when you need it?

In 1996 (the most recent year for which data are available)there were approximately 14,000 homicides in a nation of 300,000,000 people. That's the USA.
Before we invaded Iraq, their own (suspected to be low) estimates of homicide were... wait for it... 140,000 per year in a nation of about 30,000,000 people.

To recap (with my rounded off numbers): Iraq deaths (pre invasion) were 10 times higher than the US, with 1/10th the population. Which means 100x more homicide per capita (or about there).

So you're not just wrong. You're so wrong it's like you said 100 is less than 1.

I'm just waiting for us to go back to our original story (new window) about who was responsible for gassing the Kurds:

Analysis of thousands of captured Iraqi secret police documents and declassified U.S. government documents, as well as interviews with scores of Kurdish survivors, senior Iraqi defectors and retired U.S. intelligence officers, show (1) that Iraq carried out the attack on Halabja, and (2) that the United States, fully aware it was Iraq, accused Iran, Iraq's enemy in a fierce war, of being partly responsible for the attack. The State Department instructed its diplomats to say that Iran was partly to blame.

Once we get back to blaming Iran, I'll know that we're back on track.

I'm surprised how many people have already forgotten that other than WMDs one of the biggest reasons to take out Saddam was because of his atrocities against the Kurds. Apparently it won't be so difficult for our government to convince us that we have always been at war with Eurasia.

flynn80: I loved the headline subby. All those who dont get it need to do history research and understand what sarcasim is, or just crawl back into your hole.

Yes, I do understand sarcasm and know my history; however, the headline still sucks. These are two completely different situations. Saddam oppressed a whole race (sub-race?) of people. We are just trying to quell the PKK, a small terrorist organization.

GurneyHalleck: Does the tread count as Godwined when the subject of the article is the one to invoke visions of Nazis?


No, because gassing of Kurdish rebels in Iraq precedes the Nazis by more than a decade and was in fact first done by the defenders of liberty and democracy, our noble friends the Brits.

Aevum Quote 2007-11-02 01:33:23 PM
angryatgwb
You think these people are a violent lot, check out USA statistics on gun deaths and violence in the U.S.. Makes these people look like peace loving virgins.

Where's that opera guy to sing "Mistaaaaake" at you when you need it?

In 1996 (the most recent year for which data are available)there were approximately 14,000 homicides in a nation of 300,000,000 people. That's the USA.
Before we invaded Iraq, their own (suspected to be low) estimates of homicide were... wait for it... 140,000 per year in a nation of about 30,000,000 people.

To recap (with my rounded off numbers): Iraq deaths (pre invasion) were 10 times higher than the US, with 1/10th the population. Which means 100x more homicide per capita (or about there).

So you're not just wrong. You're so wrong it's like you said 100 is less than 1.


# According to the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) in 2005, 477,040 victims of violent crimes stated that they faced an offender with a firearm.

# Incidents involving a firearm represented 9% of the 4.7 million violent crimes of rape and sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated and simple assault in 2005.

# The FBI's Crime in the United States estimated that 66% of the 16,137 murders in 2004 were committed with firearms.

just to name a few.