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(SFGate)   Dock workers plant fart machine under conference table at strike talks. Hilarity ensues   ( divider line
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13217 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Oct 2002 at 10:55 PM (15 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

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2002-10-03 12:33:17 AM  
[image from too old to be available]
Here you go Dingo
Welcome to the house of useless information
2002-10-03 12:33:19 AM  
Odlid I don't even make half that. I'd be willing to do their job, and hell, I'll take 1/2 the salary to start.
2002-10-03 12:34:16 AM  
Sweater Girl
You said;

Why Unions are worse than Churches.
by Sweater Girl

1)You are forced to join
2)You are forced to pay to be a member, or you are fired
3)You are not allowed to publicly campaign for anyone not 'approved' by the Union
4)Any dissent in the ranks could result in being fired, as you agreed to act in the best interests of the Union when you joined, and they can send a 'terminate this person' letter at any time.

Um, nope, that isn't true at ALL.
1. You cannot be forced at ALL to join a Union.
2. You likewise, as a non-union employee under the BECK decision, Section 8(a)(3) of the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA) permits an employer and a union to require all employees to pay union dues as a condition of continued employment, whether or not the employees become union members. Harry Beck, a member of the Communications Workers of America (CWA) union, protested the union's expenditure of dues--which he and his coworkers were forced to pay by contract--in order to promote political candidates and causes that he opposed. If you want 0% of your dues to go to political or non-union fee purposes, you get this refunded permanently.

3. Also NOT TRUE. The Union gives most of their 'slush fund' to pro-Union politicians, mostly Democrats (Despite the common recent term "Bi-Partisan Friends"). I campained for Dole, even put DOLE stickers on my toolbox, so did the shop foreman. I just hated Clinton, noone did anything.
4. Oh, how I WISH this were true! People with 35+ years here are the biggest whiners and complainers and both the Union and the company HATE them. Some are even close to the 'forced retirement age' but are too damned greedy.

In other news...

[image from too old to be available]

[image from too old to be available]

2002-10-03 12:35:08 AM  
Cheers, threeve.

Back to work for me.

I think I might go on strike.
2002-10-03 12:35:49 AM  
A lot of people seem to know zero about this union. Of course...they may have had some experience with a union, and believe that every union is exactly the same. FAR from the truth. This union is a true union. ALL workers are united. They are together on pretty much every issue. You won't see half of the employees complaining about union dues here.

These guys work their asses off, doing many types of jobs at frantic paces (that they shouldn't be doing...but they have to in order to get the ships out as fast as they can), but anyone who makes more money than you is automatically "lazy" or "stupid". Considering these guys have one of the most important jobs in the nation (are you going to deny that? They could go on strike and send the nation down the toilet. However, they are NOT on strike, as many people, that don't know how to read, think), they are truely unionized, and often work in some of the most hellish conditions, at the most hellish hours, they deserve the money they get. Remember that most of them were in poverty for MANY years before actually making it into the union. They are called "casuals".

This isn't a strike, folks. It is a lockout. As much as you would like to blame the union for this, working at a slower pace wasn't a type of "strike". It was a safety issue, as they are often forced to work at rates that can get someone hurt.

Nobody is biatching about money. Money isn't the issue. Of course, reading the articles would be useless...

Why shouldn't they bring in a little fun? Yesterday, PMA brought ARMED GUARDS to the negotiation table...but you would never get mad at them for that, now would you?
2002-10-03 12:40:39 AM  
---------FARK THEM ALL-----------

here in hawaii we are running out of toilet paper!!!!

ps im farkin serious
2002-10-03 12:40:52 AM  
Actually yes, I should point out that the very old longshoreman do tend to whine...they want to keep working as well. Not ALL, but some.
I know of one man who didn't retire because his ex-wife would have received half of his retirement he kept working (very rarely getting a job...he would have actually made more money if he retired. So his case might not be considered greed...but he was whiney).

No...they want jobs using the computers, or replacement jobs. They don't want to get rid of the new technology.
2002-10-03 12:41:50 AM  
Puffy999 So they normally feel that they can work in an unsafe way, but suddenly they feel they can't because they have no contract, and refuse to continue the contract they had before? Bullshiat. They are intentionally slowing work down as a form of striking.
2002-10-03 12:42:49 AM  
Hawaii is full of bushes and trees...wipe your butt on some of those. Or for that oh-so-clean feeling, use a coconut tree. ;)
2002-10-03 12:44:03 AM  
I wholeheartedly agree with Sos.

I mean, if you were a negotiator on the other side of this table, how could you even keep a straight face when these clownshoes made and of their "demands"?
2002-10-03 12:44:15 AM  
..but they're not snugguly soft...
2002-10-03 12:44:43 AM  

Oh well, whatever, nevermind.
2002-10-03 12:46:02 AM  
um how much do those guys make?
2002-10-03 12:46:30 AM  
There are age-old alternatives to toilet paper, including corn cobs and the Sears and Roebuck catalog (pre glossy paper days). I hear on the island, there's plenty of water and pineapples. Perhaps one of those will do?
2002-10-03 12:48:44 AM  
They are working within safety regulations at all times. But by slowing down work, your chance of an accident decreases quite a bit. If negotiations are going nowhere, and you feel something bad may happen (a lockout), why the fark would you work at a rate which has a higher chance of getting someone hurt?

Let's just get right into it. IF PMA had let this go, nobody would be talking about it. Things would be moving slower, but there would be less worry about accidents. Everything would be making it out of the ship, and we'd all have Christmas™.
But now, because of a lockout, the union is entirely at fault. They've only been working without a contract for three months...
2002-10-03 12:52:48 AM  
Back from work.

I suggest all you anti-unionists read up on the MUA - Patrick Stevedors industrial action that took place in Australia a couple of years back. Might open your eyes a little as to how big business (and govt.) treat workers.
2002-10-03 12:55:19 AM  

1. You cannot be forced at ALL to join a Union.

Yes, absolutely you can. Especially if you work in a specialized field. Ever hear of an actor onscreen who isn't a member of SAG?
if you have, it's probably because he was sued.

Are you still in school or something? It strikes me that you have NO idea what it's like to deal with a union.
2002-10-03 01:00:38 AM  
Perhaps if Enron's employees had formed a union they might have been able to negotiate themselves a better retirement package... But unions are evil, I forgot.
2002-10-03 01:02:17 AM  
This article mentions the two armed bodyguards.

And here's how Hawaii is handling it
"Hawaii depends on ocean transport more than any other state, importing about 90 percent of its goods through container ships from ports in California and Washington state"
2002-10-03 01:04:16 AM  
You can be a dockworker and not be part of the union. You won't work very often...but you CAN work. Called a casual...of course, you are expected to join the union at some point in time. You need to be certified to become one (I don't know how they go about this).
2002-10-03 01:06:16 AM  
Sweater Girl -

I don't know how it works in the States, but over here union membership is not compulsory. However, there is a proposal to enforce a "user pays" system when unions are arguing for enterprise bargaining agreements - ie. if you want the benefits that the union has negotiated for, you pay them a fee that is moderately higher than that of the annual union fee. I support this wholeheartedly - why should people get a free ride out of the hard work of union advocates when other union-member employees still have to pay their fees?
2002-10-03 01:06:29 AM  
Make Hawaii a territory and be done with it. Then we can break California into a couple states, and send a third piece back to Mexico. :)
2002-10-03 01:08:28 AM  
If Hawaiians run out of Spam, there could be riots.
2002-10-03 01:09:18 AM  

The ILWU is my union. You all speak with absolutely no knowledge on the history of this union. The workers of the West Coast Longshore shut down the entire coast in 1934, despite resistance from the bosses' thugs and the National Guard. As a result of holding out against establishment violence, the union signed a strong coast-wide contract that guarantees employee hiring of dockworkers and better safety in a damn dangerous industry.

I do not say that all unions are saintly, but do not heap your generalizations on mine.

I suggest all of you visit and have a look at the guiding principles of this union you are reviling, including local autonomy and, to quote, "A new type of unionism is called for which does not confine its ambitions and demands only to wages. Conditions of work, security of employment and adequate provisions for the workers and their families in times of need are of equal, if not greater importance, than the hourly wage."

2 more points and I will leave you alone.

Getting into Longshore work in the ILWU is not a matter of "sign a union card, make $80K." Starting-level longshore work, while paid well, is available only on a "casual" basis, e.g., you show up at the hiring hall every day and maybe they have work for you. I have friend who has been building up time in ILWU shops from San Fran to Seattle, barely subsisting b/c of a drop in business, but doggedly persisting, wishing to become one of those few "A-Men," the rich, lazy slobs to whom many of you have alluded. Please, stop by the ILWU Local 8 hall in Portland, Oregon to find out for yourself about the work ethic of ILWU longshoremen. Or better yet, come to the picket line.

And my last point: So the top longshoremen make a lot of money. This has shown itself to be a sustainable economic relationship, and even though we have to fight it out with the PMA every contract, thw work will get done. The alternative to paying Longshoremen well for hard, dangerous work is to allow the bosses to keep more money. Who will that benefit? Why do you care? Hell, this money is being spent by the workers on their family and consumer goods, not fattening Lord HuffingBottom's trust fund! What is wrong with Longshoremen wanting to preserve their money and benefits?
2002-10-03 01:12:56 AM  
Savinis, do you know my dad? Leslie Richards...he is from the Local 12, but always works in Portland or Vancouver.
2002-10-03 01:16:16 AM  
"Yes, absolutely you can."

Sweater Girl is right on that one. It's the closed shop. If you come to work at a company whose employees are represented by a union, and the company is a closed shop, then you have to join the union to take the job. Some companies are (and some states are legislated as) "open shop," where membership is optional and the union is ineffectual.

If you do not want to be represented by a union (and I can't imagine why one wouldn't want to be), don't go to work at a union shop. I may pay dues, but I'll still be making more. And taking a role in the direction of the company.

People are so bloody receptive to being exploited by capitalism. It's a shame.
2002-10-03 01:16:55 AM  
And BTW, dad is an "A-Man," but he is by no means lazy and we are not rich (we've made the $80,000/yr that has been mentioned only a few times, and he has been in the union for nearly 30 years!).

For anyone else...when an A-man has to travel for work (our area has only a ship or two a much for formerly being the "Largest lumber shipping port in the world"), he gets bumped down the ladder. He has to wait for the local union members to get jobs, before he has an opportunity to do so.
2002-10-03 01:19:18 AM  
Puffy999: I'm in the warehouse division here, Local 5. I've met most of the local dockworkers at one time or another, though.
2002-10-03 01:19:19 AM  
Correction...he has been a longshoreman for nearly 30 years. He was a casual for six or seven years I believe...

And he is up in the Portland area on the picket lines. I sent a picture of a scab crane operator with him...
2002-10-03 01:20:47 AM  
They haven't invited us out to the picket line yet, but I'm sure I will be seeing them soon enough.
2002-10-03 01:22:44 AM  
Are you down by the terminals south of St. John's bridge, on the west bank? I forget what that is called down there... I've been with dad when he worked for the Gear Locker down here, and he's driven supplies up there a few times.
2002-10-03 01:23:21 AM  
Why don't we just have the goods shipped to a port in Tijuana, and then truck it in over the Mexican border? Vancouver could work, too.
2002-10-03 01:24:15 AM  
I was I could be completely off in my knowledge of the warehouses...
2002-10-03 01:28:46 AM  
"Perhaps if Enron's employees had formed a union ..."

perhaps if enron's employees hadn't been stupid enough to invest every penny into ONE SINGLE SOLITAIRE stock... of course those same enron employees weren't biatching when the stock was at 60 bucks/share...

oh, and unions still suck.
2002-10-03 01:39:06 AM  
"The package includes annual wages for full-time workers ranging from $114,500 to $137,500, depending on classification; employer-paid health insurance; substantial pension increases; and job guarantees for registered marine clerks."

$144.5k - $137.5k???? job guarantees??? i hope these union members someday wake up in the real world.
2002-10-03 01:42:25 AM  
Read Savinis's Boobies...
2002-10-03 01:43:55 AM  
If I start hating the place I work and the way I'm treated the last thing I'm thinking is "We really need to unionize". I am too busy moving on to a better place to work. Nothing speaks to managment like a resignation.
2002-10-03 01:48:58 AM  
Boobies=Boobies. ;)
So read his Boobies about how much these guys get paid.
2002-10-03 01:51:39 AM  
Ay caramba. I didn't know first and 1st would be the same to the filter. ;)
2002-10-03 01:52:00 AM  
when did this thread turn dull?

2002-10-03 01:52:49 AM  

No, the warehouse unit is Powell's Books.


You really don't place any value on job security? You don't mind the way that companies these days have completely subverted the "company-man" employed-till-retirement ethic of not too long ago? You don't mind the prospect of frequent unemployment, never knowing when the next downsizing is going to cut your living out from under your feet, your boss having the ability to fire you at the slightest whim? How can hopping from job to crappy job be more satisfying than finding a job you love and making it better for you?
2002-10-03 01:54:07 AM  
Oh yes, and please do not read my boobies, there is nothing written on them...
2002-10-03 02:02:37 AM  
why do you keep saying Boobies?
2002-10-03 02:03:06 AM  
First thing, all.


this is a lockout.

Shift the person at fault. Both side's reps are waving their dicks at each other over the conference table, but it's the owners that are declaring a work stoppage.

Evidently, it seems that nobody else has noticed this little detail.
2002-10-03 02:07:14 AM  
Ishidan, I've tried to point this out...actually on a few message boards. People just don't listen. ;)
2002-10-03 02:09:52 AM  
I tried to say "Boobies", but the Fark filter edits that into "Boobies". Check out the FArQ for more interesting things the filter can do...

I noticed that the people who tried to do it said first time post, not...well, you know. :)
2002-10-03 02:17:12 AM even edits partial 1337?! Just read the FArQ. ;)
2002-10-03 02:20:34 AM  

The details tend to get washed away in the flood of corporate-sponsored misinformation.
2002-10-03 02:34:44 AM  

Call it a lockout if you want, buy why did mgmt lock out the union. Could it be due to an illegal work slowdown??? Why didn't the union just have the balls to strike? Instead they take the chicken shiat way out and replaced the experienced crane workers with the newbies. Then they cry about how they're locked farking hoo.

That would be alot like candy stripers taking over for the surgeons in a hospital...both are trained to take care of people. It's just that one's alot more efficient and effective. But then again, surgeons don't need to rely on collective bargaining to bring in the best pay for the greatest amount of laziness.
2002-10-03 02:38:02 AM  
While everyone here argues about the union, I'm going to try to dupe the filter.
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