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(BBC)   England to begin HPV vaccinations in all school girls starting at age 12. Of course, we in the U.S. know that this will result in a generation of sluts   (news.bbc.co.uk) divider line 380
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3319 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Oct 2007 at 10:08 AM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-10-26 11:10:37 AM
mmm... pancake: We could greatly reduce AIDS infections by banning gay sex and unprotected, non-monogamous straight sex.

Gay sex is already illegal in your home state. Your law enforcement officers are really doing a bad job of rounding up those criminals, aren't they?
 
2007-10-26 11:10:52 AM
Shaggy_C: If you have had sex with 7 people between the age of 16 and 25 (condom or not) you have a 100% chance of having HPV. Sucks.

You fail at statistics.
 
2007-10-26 11:11:30 AM
Flab: mmm... pancake: Medical care should be between the parents, the child and the doctor. I don't see where the Government should have any control or influence there.

In the UK, the Gubmint pays for health care. They are therefore entitled to decide what manadatory vaccinations people should get to limit costly treatments later on in life.

In the US, that's a different story.


The government doesn't pay, the people pay through taxes. Anyway, parents will get the final say in this, it's never going to be mandatory.
 
2007-10-26 11:11:43 AM
chimp_ninja: Ever since I got my tetanus vaccine, I've been stomping on rusty nails willy-nilly.

Willy. Nilly.


wins
 
2007-10-26 11:13:09 AM
mmm... pancake: We could greatly reduce AIDS infections by banning gay sex and unprotected, non-monogamous straight sex. Who's with me? This is a legitimate Government action since they are acting in the interest of the public health. If you're against it, you want children to die from AIDS. You bastards.

That's a pretty poor analogy since that would be a massive restriction on people's freedom. Being required to get a vaccine, on the other hand, is NOT a massive restriction on your freedom. In fact, it's not really taking away your freedom much at all. Oh no, the government isn't going to allow me to be more susceptible to HPV! I'm practically a slave.
 
2007-10-26 11:15:02 AM
Theaetetus: mmm... pancake: Are you so emotionally involved in this issue that you can't open your eyes and see that some people object to having the Government involved in health care decisions of their children regardless of what the vaccine is for?

So the government offers a vaccine that could prevent deadly illness, but you say no because you "object to having the Government involved in health care decisions of your children regardless of what the vaccine is for"?

That's some good parenting there, Lou.

/on a related note, the Government made it mandatory to not jump off bridges. Go show them who's boss!


Sorry. I am against the mandatory vaccination for non-communicable diseases. First, lots of the fear associated is propaganda from the company that makes the only version of this vaccine. And I hate becoming a corporate shill. Second, I don't think there has been enough testing/trials on it. Thalidamide anyone? Maybe in ten years if the kids haven't lost their eyesight or something from it, I'll be behind it a bit more. Third, there are only a few types of HPV that cause cancer so the whole OMG, OH NOES! is a little out of proportion to the actual cost. And hell, the current vaccine doesn't even protect against all cancer-causing strains. I think I'd want to wait til they got it right before getting it.

Nothing to do with sex or keeping kids from having sex or it will cause kids to have sex--I just don't like how they are going about making a new drug mandatory when, if I were a parent, I'd want to see much much more data on the trials and testing and possible side effects before my kid gets needled.
 
2007-10-26 11:15:27 AM
Thats Right Youre Not From Texas: soze: BTW, I'm sure that if it was a vaccine that eradicated 98% of all dick cancer we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

Jesus. Is there any story that you can't turn into a feminist cause celebre?


It's hardly a 'feminist' thing. You don't really understand because guys just plain don't have a very intimate idea of what it's like to have a cervix. It's just like I don't have a good idea of what it's like to have a peen; to me it seems like it's just kind of a lump of flesh on the outside of your body that gets in the way a lot.

For example, I had to explain to a few of my guy friends that ovarian cancer isn't just like a bad tummy-ache; I compared it to testicular cancer. After they uncrossed their legs they had a much better idea about what it entailed.

It's a similar reason to why boob cancer gets a lot more play among both sexes than ovarian or cervical. You can see boobs and relate to them a lot more than something internal.
 
2007-10-26 11:16:05 AM
I came to count how many pictures of Hermione were posted, and found Pocket Ninja's post instead.

Dayum...
 
2007-10-26 11:17:27 AM
mmm... pancake

Just to cut down on your excessive posting in this thread, you should re-read this line from the article:

But parents would have the final say as to whether their child received the injection.


Here it is again:

But parents would have the final say as to whether their child received the injection.

Once more for luck:

But parents would have the final say as to whether their child received the injection.

Now, give it a rest, champ. This was not the "government force-feeding chemicals to the population" story that you thought it was.
 
2007-10-26 11:17:57 AM
CitizenjaQ: You fail at statistics.

Relax. Look at the numbers - I believe more than half of all 18-25 year olds have HPV. It's like flipping a coin - tails is farking an HPV-infected person. In seven flips, what is the probability that you won't get a single tail? I'll tell you, using binomial theory. It's .007% That means that you're 99.993% likely to have HPV. Was saying 100% really that far off that I 'fail'?
 
2007-10-26 11:18:01 AM
soze: For example, I had to explain to a few of my guy friends that ovarian cancer isn't just like a bad tummy-ache; I compared it to testicular cancer. After they uncrossed their legs they had a much better idea about what it entailed.

If the friends you have don't know that ovaries are the testes of the female gender, you need smarter friends.
 
2007-10-26 11:18:50 AM
mmm... pancake: They can recommend all they want but the final decision will rest with us and our doctor.

What if studies showed that parents often would make bad decisions from the standpoint of both public health and their children's best interests if the choice was left up to them? Because that's basically the situation. Lots of parents are refusing vaccines (not just this one) because either they don't understand them, or they are just acting selfishly and hoping to benefit from everyone else's herd immunity without having to take any risk themselves. Vaccines against STD's are even worse, because many parents refuse to even consider the possibility that their 12 year old child might start having sex soon.

Parents often aren't good medical decision-makers. Period. And the government has a right to intervene in this case because the parents' bad decision-making helps to contribute to a public health hazard.
 
2007-10-26 11:18:52 AM
soze: It's a similar reason to why boob cancer gets a lot more play among both sexes than ovarian or cervical. You can see boobs and relate to them a lot more than something internal.

I relate to the cervix frequently, more so in certain positions.
 
2007-10-26 11:19:19 AM
Shaggy_C: half of all 18-25 year olds

*sexually active 18-25 year olds.
 
2007-10-26 11:20:06 AM
Mnemia: That's a pretty poor analogy since that would be a massive restriction on people's freedom. Being required to get a vaccine, on the other hand, is NOT a massive restriction on your freedom. In fact, it's not really taking away your freedom much at all. Oh no, the government isn't going to allow me to be more susceptible to HPV! I'm practically a slave.

You can't possibly claim to know the value of people's individual freedoms. I don't personally value the right to gay sex at all but I do value my right to health privacy. It doesn't mean I don't respect it. I respect your right to get an HPV vaccine if you want, why can't you do the same for me?
 
2007-10-26 11:20:35 AM
Thats Right Youre Not From Texas -- Is there any story that you can't turn into a feminist cause celebre?

No. No, there is not.

Similarly, every story or link on FARK, including sports and geeknews, will elicit detectable levels of right-wing outrage.

When you are a fanatic, things like reason, logic, and evidence don't matter, and everything relates back to the object of your monomaniacal obsession. I'm sure there are people out there who can explain how HPV vaccinations in Britain are another problem which inevitably results from A) lax U.S. enforcement of the border with Mexico, B) global warming, C) rampant belief in evolution, and/or D) persistent racism within the Boston Police Department.

Part of the joy of FARK is reveling in the astonishingly bizarre permutations of these fanatics who, unfiltered by any kind of social graces or the embarrassment of having to actually say these things out loud to somebody's face, will pop off with all sorts of wild shiat and render themselves vulnerable to persistent proofs of their failure. The downside is that this tends to make the subject of such self-invited derision more adamant in their defense of their idiotic statement, but meanwhile, the rest of us can enjoy ourselves immensely.

Remember, chances are good that we're not laughing with you. Unless you're Pocket Ninja, who earns a hearty WIN.
 
2007-10-26 11:21:13 AM
Shaggy_C: Relax. Look at the numbers - I believe more than half of all 18-25 year olds have HPV. It's like flipping a coin - tails is farking an HPV-infected person. In seven flips, what is the probability that you won't get a single tail? I'll tell you, using binomial theory. It's .007% That means that you're 99.993% likely to have HPV. Was saying 100% really that far off that I 'fail'?

That assumes that you are choosing to have sex with a random sample of the population as a whole. I would assume that that is NOT true for the most part.
 
2007-10-26 11:21:19 AM
It's hardly a 'feminist' thing. You don't really understand because guys just plain don't have a very intimate idea of what it's like to have a cervix. It's just like I don't have a good idea of what it's like to have a peen; to me it seems like it's just kind of a lump of flesh on the outside of your body that gets in the way a lot.

I have two daughters. Both will get the vaccine when they're old enough and if reports at the time say it's safe.

For example, I had to explain to a few of my guy friends that ovarian cancer isn't just like a bad tummy-ache; I compared it to testicular cancer. After they uncrossed their legs they had a much better idea about what it entailed.

Sounds like you have really stupid friends. Get some new ones.

It's a similar reason to why boob cancer gets a lot more play among both sexes than ovarian or cervical. You can see boobs and relate to them a lot more than something internal.

Or maybe the breast cancer research folks have a better PR machine? I like boobs and all, but I like vaginas better. Admittedly I don't see either as often as I'd like, but frequency has nothing to do with it.

Men are concerned with cervical cancer as much as women are concerned with testicular cancer. Nobody should be required to take a drug that received minimal testing and where the long term effects are unknown.
 
2007-10-26 11:21:58 AM
Shatner's Bassoon: Now, give it a rest, champ. This was not the "government force-feeding chemicals to the population" story that you thought it was.

Oh, I know. It's just much more fun this way. After all, look at how many people WANT it to be totally mandatory.
 
2007-10-26 11:22:06 AM
mmm... pancake

I respect your right to get an HPV vaccine if you want, why can't you do the same for me?


No-one is making you have one, so why are you whining so farking much??!!
 
2007-10-26 11:22:59 AM
Ah, ok, troll. Nevermind then.
 
2007-10-26 11:23:27 AM
PC LOAD LETTER: soze: For example, I had to explain to a few of my guy friends that ovarian cancer isn't just like a bad tummy-ache; I compared it to testicular cancer. After they uncrossed their legs they had a much better idea about what it entailed.

If the friends you have don't know that ovaries are the testes of the female gender, you need smarter friends.


Dude, they're engineers. There's a disconnect between the "general knowledge of anatomy" and the "gut understanding".
 
2007-10-26 11:24:43 AM
mmm... pancake:

I'm glad you find my ignorance amusing.

Hopefully your delicious joie de vivre will be passed down to your daughter, so she can howl with delight twenty years from now as doctors pluck fibroid tumors from her lumpy cervix.
 
2007-10-26 11:25:22 AM
Mnemia: What if studies showed that parents often would make bad decisions from the standpoint of both public health and their children's best interests if the choice was left up to them?

This is not the norm. It is not worth sacrificing the rights of the many for the idiocy of a few.
 
2007-10-26 11:26:29 AM
brap: Hopefully your delicious joie de vivre will be passed down to your daughter, so she can howl with delight twenty years from now as doctors pluck fibroid tumors from her lumpy cervix.

Great. Now I'm hungry.
 
2007-10-26 11:26:31 AM
brap: Hopefully your delicious joie de vivre will be passed down to your daughter, so she can howl with delight twenty years from now as doctors pluck fibroid tumors from her lumpy cervix.

You must be one of those compassionate liberals I keep hearing about that wish cancer upon little girls.

If our doctor and we decide that it's safe and effective our daughter will have the vaccine.
 
2007-10-26 11:27:23 AM
The "pill" created a generation of sluts. This will just keep them from getting cancer for being one.
 
2007-10-26 11:27:29 AM
Pocket Ninja
Delicious Copypasta is delicious
 
2007-10-26 11:27:33 AM
Shatner's Bassoon: No-one is making you have one, so why are you whining so farking much??!!

I'm arguing with those who *want* to force me to have one. You might want to read the thread a little more.
 
2007-10-26 11:28:07 AM
"una papilloma blanca.....ahaaahhhhhaa"

www.countrymusicclassics.com
 
2007-10-26 11:28:18 AM
mmm... pancake:
What about Government forced medication setting a bad precedent do you not understand?


What do you not understand about 200 years of that kind of "bad precedent" policy resulting in the greatest increase in human lifespan, quality of life, productivity, and happiness ever seen in the history of the world for any species? For that matter, how fine are you going to have to draw your definition to continue to cling to your belief that this would even be any sort of precedent? Do you have the vaguest grasp of historical medical campaigns against STDs, even in the US?

Your irrational "personal liberty" religion is clouding your judgment and making you look as stupid as those dumbfarks in Africa keeping Polio alive for the last 5 years as a way to stand up to the white man. You can argue the vaccine isn't well enough proven, is too expensive, may carry unacceptable side effects, fine. But taking aim at one of the features of society that has been well proven to move people beyond nasty, brutish, and short lives makes you look like an idiot.
 
2007-10-26 11:28:35 AM
mmm... pancake: You can't possibly claim to know the value of people's individual freedoms. I don't personally value the right to gay sex at all but I do value my right to health privacy. It doesn't mean I don't respect it. I respect your right to get an HPV vaccine if you want, why can't you do the same for me?

Do you understand that by giving people that freedom that we are guaranteeing that we cannot protect many people from the disease? Even those who CHOSE to get the vaccine? Vaccines are not 100% effective; they also depend on "herd immunity". In other words, if you're one of the people for whom the vaccine didn't "take", you are still somewhat protected because the chances of you catching the disease from someone else are reduced since everyone is vaccinated. Herd immunity is the best argument for why vaccines should be mandatory.

You seem to be arguing just on principle. In actuality, would you actually refuse this vaccine for yourself or your daughter? If so, why? Is your whole motivation for this argument your principled opposition to government intervention rather than a belief that there is some reason you should not get the vaccine? If it's just opposition to the government mandate, why do you think this vaccine is different from other vaccines? Should it be optional to get a smallpox or diphtheria vaccine?
 
2007-10-26 11:28:56 AM
ReverendJasen 2007-10-26 11:10:23 AM
Merely in revolt of government mandates?

Well, that should be the first reaction everybody has. Those that don't truly are sheep.

But a mandate that makes the vaccination available in a society that's already completely socialized their health care.... sure.
 
2007-10-26 11:30:50 AM
Mnemia: That assumes that you are choosing to have sex with a random sample of the population as a whole. I would assume that that is NOT true for the most part.

Well, I would venture to say that in certain segments, you'd find a higher probability (more in college towns than in amish villages). I doubt anyone here is amish, so I'll stick by my point that if you've slept with 7 people, you're almost guaranteed to be a carrier.
 
2007-10-26 11:31:10 AM
mmm... pancake: The health of my children is none of your business or the Government's business.

preventing the spread of disease is everyone's business.

keep your diseased crotch goblins away from the rest of society.
 
2007-10-26 11:31:48 AM
Thats Right Youre Not From Texas: Nobody should be required to take a drug that received minimal testing and where the long term effects are unknown.

Do you even know what a vaccine is? And you're aware that this vaccine's approval was NOT based on "minimal testing"?
 
2007-10-26 11:32:51 AM
soze: Dude, they're engineers. There's a disconnect between the "general knowledge of anatomy" and the "gut understanding".

Yep. And too much internet porn too.

Most people have no idea how the human body works and what the parts do. I remember in HS health class, our teacher asked "If a girl goes to the bathroom after sex, will she get pregnant" and the GIRLS said "no". I had to explain to them that the urethra and the vagina were different openings.
 
2007-10-26 11:35:03 AM
spleef420: preventing the spread of disease is everyone's business.

keep your diseased crotch goblins away from the rest of society.

You're farking idiot. Go read the rest of the thread before running your biatch mouth.
 
2007-10-26 11:35:10 AM
Pocket Ninja:

Sir, your post is full of win.

/Salute
 
2007-10-26 11:35:14 AM
PC LOAD LETTER:

Most people have no idea how the human body works and what the parts do. I remember in HS health class, our teacher asked "If a girl goes to the bathroom after sex, will she get pregnant" and the GIRLS said "no". I had to explain to them that the urethra and the vagina were different openings.

Maybe they all had cloacae.
 
2007-10-26 11:35:15 AM
mmm... pancake: Mnemia: What if studies showed that parents often would make bad decisions from the standpoint of both public health and their children's best interests if the choice was left up to them?

This is not the norm. It is not worth sacrificing the rights of the many for the idiocy of a few.


YES, it was the norm. Do you know why federal subsidized school lunches were introduced? Because so many WWII draftees were found to be physically unfit due to easily prevented childhood nutritional deficiencies. It was a military readiness measure (as were most past STD campaigns). Can you identify what government imposed health measure has resulted in the elimination of the village idiot (cretinism) in the first world (this is an easy one since India's fight against it has been in the news recently)? Do you realize how hard some pockets of parents fought to protect smallpox in Africa?
 
2007-10-26 11:36:08 AM
mmm... pancake:

You must be one of those compassionate liberals I keep hearing about that wish cancer upon little girls.

Yes. By vaccinating them against it.

Insidious, I know, a subtle anti-strategy, which borders on the non-sensical. But God willing, it's just crazy enough to not work.
 
2007-10-26 11:36:13 AM
Burt Likko: D) persistent racism within the Boston Police Department.
Was I right?

soze: Dude, they're engineers.
Don't be mean to engineers, we really are good people.

mmm... pancake: It is not worth sacrificing the rights of the many for the idiocy of a few.
Umm, current executive and judicial branches of the US administration are doing that right now.

Mnemia: If it's just opposition to the government mandate, why do you think this vaccine is different from other vaccines? Should it be optional to get a smallpox or diphtheria vaccine?
Also been trying to point this out since post 40 or so.

Mnemia: Parents often aren't good medical decision-makers. Period. And the government has a right to intervene in this case because the parents' bad decision-making helps to contribute to a public health hazard.

I don't disagree with you, and you read my posts to see where I am with this whole thing, but....as long as the governement in question is thinking on behalf of the people and taking actions as such and not following some story about some dude in flowing white robe and beard.
 
2007-10-26 11:36:18 AM
Mnemia: Do you even know what a vaccine is? And you're aware that this vaccine's approval was NOT based on "minimal testing"?

You're kidding me, right?

That's the primary reason people really have a problem with it.

People like you and soze keep acting like we don't want it because it'll turn girls into sluts, but that's like Republicans arguing b-b-b-but Clinton. It's a non-sequitur based on your own inane bias and attempt to ridicule the opposition.

I don't want my kids vaccinated until it has been thoroughly tested and the long term effects are known. If you don't think that drugs can get through with minimal testing, read up on the expedited FDA procedures that pharm companies are using nowadays. Read up on Vioxx, and what a wonder-drug that turned out to be.
 
2007-10-26 11:36:59 AM
mmm... pancake: This is not the norm. It is not worth sacrificing the rights of the many for the idiocy of a few.

Prove that it's not the "norm". Because from what I've read, lately an ever-growing percentage of parents are refusing vaccines of all kinds (many by abusing the "religious exemption" clause in most state laws). The anti-vax movement is getting so big that many public health experts are warning that we're going to see a big return of many serious diseases (and outbreaks are already way up). Would you seriously advocate a return to a world where people are dying of completely preventable diseases just to let parents have autonomy to follow their ignorant biases and fads? Why should children suffer and die because their parents are dumbfarks?
 
2007-10-26 11:38:55 AM
Mnemia: Do you understand that by giving people that freedom that we are guaranteeing that we cannot protect many people from the disease? Even those who CHOSE to get the vaccine? Vaccines are not 100% effective; they also depend on "herd immunity". In other words, if you're one of the people for whom the vaccine didn't "take", you are still somewhat protected because the chances of you catching the disease from someone else are reduced since everyone is vaccinated. Herd immunity is the best argument for why vaccines should be mandatory.

Then there is no reason to get the vaccine now if it's not mandatory, right? The threat of HPV is not extreme enough to warrant violating our rights. This isn't smallpox or polio. The risk of contracting HPV through non-sexual contact is especially rare.
 
2007-10-26 11:38:59 AM
The Envoy: he government doesn't pay, the people pay through taxes.

I think I might have alluded to that fact.
 
2007-10-26 11:41:45 AM
Mnemia: Prove that it's not the "norm".

Before we have our freedoms we have to prove we'll be responsible for them? Stupid people get to be free too.
 
2007-10-26 11:41:47 AM
Thats Right Youre Not From Texas: and the long term effects are known.

Just to snark....

I am waiting on the long term effects of an iPhone, 60" 1080p flat panels and Wiis, but I am still willing to get all of them ;)

/actually won't get a 1080p tv until they start broadcasting 1080p
 
2007-10-26 11:42:24 AM
mmm... pancake:
The health of my children is none of your business or the Government's business.


Ah, I went back a bit and see the root of it. You really are completely ignorant of the fundamentals of society (a field the founding fathers, those overeducated liberal elite bastards, greatly respected). I'll stop wasting my time replying to you, and sincerely hope you find a nice remote cabin in Idaho to live in since you seem not to want to be a part of modern society, where your children are everyone's business. That's why modern folks get grumpy if you decide to break your kids' arms to teach them manners or burn their tongues with a cigarette if they swear - they're your children after all, right? What business of ours is it if you want to beat them to death?
 
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