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(Guardian)   How the world learned to love Apple and its Macs   ( guardian.co.uk) divider line
    More: Interesting  
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2869 clicks; posted to Geek » on 25 Oct 2007 at 1:09 AM (9 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-10-24 10:55:36 PM  
I loved the ][/e as a little kid, but I never had any love for a Mac. Maybe Euros did? Most Americans I know are PC people.

/DRTFA
 
2007-10-24 10:57:56 PM  
OK I read TFA.

Of course, selling 2m Macs is impressive because it's almost twice Apple's historic rate, but it's still only a fraction of the 67m PCs sold in the same quarter.

Exactly... Macs were, are, and always will be: A fringe market.
 
2007-10-24 11:08:27 PM  
i can't wait for that member of the borg collective to tell us all about how macs suck
 
2007-10-24 11:09:18 PM  
Exactly... Macs were, are, and always will be: A fringe market.

The second they cease to be on the fringe their core audience will leave them. No tool wants to buy something that everyone else has. They'll be moving on to Haiku OS running on an Amiga.
 
2007-10-24 11:47:45 PM  
I must admit apple has grabbed a big share of the notebook market. This years' incoming freshman class was just under 30% macs, with XP being the same and vista being almost 40%.

For the last 3 years or so, macs were less than 8% of the incoming machines.

I think the increase is partly because of the popularity of ipods on college campuses, but also because all of spyware problems students have on windows boxes.

/and the spyware problems aren't windows fault, it's stupid users downloading all the 'free' crap off the web
//and not bothering with windows update
///or antivirus
 
2007-10-24 11:55:29 PM  
bibble.org
 
2007-10-25 12:12:19 AM  
Bucky Katt: i can't wait for that member of the borg collective to tell us all about how macs suck

7of7: The second they cease to be on the fringe their core audience will leave them. No tool wants to buy something that everyone else has. They'll be moving on to Haiku OS running on an Amiga.

And so Locutus has spoken.
 
2007-10-25 01:22:00 AM  
Apple trifecta now in play.
 
2007-10-25 01:45:05 AM  
Any man who poses with a pipe in his photo is a man I know I can trust.
 
2007-10-25 01:45:40 AM  
It's spectacular that this article is above the last one.

\Drew?
\\Really?
 
2007-10-25 01:51:00 AM  
labman: I must admit apple has grabbed a big share of the notebook market. This years' incoming freshman class was just under 30% macs, with XP being the same and vista being almost 40%.

For the last 3 years or so, macs were less than 8% of the incoming machines.

I think the increase is partly because of the popularity of ipods on college campuses, but also because all of spyware problems students have on windows boxes.

/and the spyware problems aren't windows fault, it's stupid users downloading all the 'free' crap off the web
//and not bothering with windows update
///or antivirus


Well said, farker. I started graduate school this year and I don't know anyone who uses a desktop computer. So many classes (and jobs, I assume) require frequent access to email and the internet, that's it's almost impractical to choose a desktop. As notebooks become more common, Apple computers will gain a larger share of the market.
 
2007-10-25 01:58:41 AM  
7of7: The second they cease to be on the fringe their core audience will leave them. No tool wants to buy something that everyone else has. They'll be moving on to Haiku OS running on an Amiga.

Except almost everyone I know who has a Mac switched because, well, they liked it better than Windows. Unless Windows passes OS X in usability, nobody's going anywhere.
 
2007-10-25 02:50:44 AM  
He he.
WRONG.
 
2007-10-25 03:01:41 AM  
It's true-- I love my Mac Classic.
Everything after that, not so much.
 
2007-10-25 03:58:49 AM  
I'm impressed by the ability of the MS zombies to read this article and not really understand it. Either that or they're getting paid to spread misinformation. Stupid or crooked, either one is possible.
 
2007-10-25 04:00:49 AM  
One day in our lifetimes Apple will be the dominant platform. I predict another 2 releases of windows before that happens. (I'd give a figure in years...but hell we all know that predicted Microsoft Development times are almost as bad as the copy estimation times on Windows...)

/Seriously what sort of coding can make file copy estimation flicker between 26 minutes and 9 minutes on a second by second basis?
 
2007-10-25 04:20:51 AM  
bingethinker: Stupid or crooked, either one is possible.

Threatened. Many people identify themselves on their purchases and feel threatened by people who don't follow the same pattern they do. So they lasgh out at people who are different than them. Conformity is a very strong component of American society. Even the non-conformists conform to established memes. It's quite funny.
 
2007-10-25 05:57:31 AM  
7of7: The second they cease to be on the fringe their core audience will leave them.

wow talk about not understanding the Mac market at all
 
2007-10-25 06:16:03 AM  
Douchebag modmins fanning the flames for an un-entertaining flamewar between 7of7 and his imaginary foes trifecta complete?

I'll guess I go and snark in the SoCal fire #42 then. Assholes.
 
2007-10-25 07:21:55 AM  
Kar98: Douchebag modmins fanning the flames for an un-entertaining flamewar between 7of7 and his imaginary foes trifecta complete?

Posted as a Mac user, sport. Every now and then I do. Don't get your knickers in a wad, there isn't gonna be any flameware in Geek. I find that particluar brand of delusion to be somewhat entertaining.
 
2007-10-25 08:18:00 AM  
Nobody's going to "win" this "war". The model of a discreet, stand-alone PC with it's O/S and apps physically loaded on it is likely to be pretty much going away in the next generation or so. Mac will continue to extend it's modest market share, and will probably make more portable devices of various kinds and do well. Microsoft will either turn into a successful net provider and support entity or it will end up in the hardware business. The X-box could esily morph into some kind of all-purpose device. Meanwhile, the 3/4 of the human race that hasn't joined the digital revolution yet will continue to join in droves - and there will be plenty of business for anybody who has two brain cells to rub together. I predict that Sun, Google, Apple and Microsoft will continue to prosper unless they shoot themselves in the foot.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
 
2007-10-25 08:33:18 AM  
moel: One day in our lifetimes Apple will be the dominant platform.

I certainly hope not. Apple strong-arms consumers into buying their hardware just to use an operating system.

Think about how much that sucks. If Apple were the dominant platform, the hardware vendors that win Apple contracts would gain the entire consumer market share. I cant think of anything that would stifle hardware innovation in a bigger way.

Competition is good. Open standards are good. System Lock-in sucks.

Apple would be the scariest monopoly ever.
 
2007-10-25 08:39:19 AM  
"In 2001, Apple introduced both the iPod and the long-awaited Mac OS X, finally giving Macs a stable operating system."

That's an interesting view. In reality, Apple couldn't get OS9 right so they plagurized an OS that had gotten it right and claimed all the credit for it.
 
2007-10-25 09:08:19 AM  
Uchiha_Cycliste: It's spectacular that this article is above the last one.

\Drew?
\\Really?


I, too, found this completely awesome:
How the world learned to love Apple and its Macs

Apple shills in the media begin to work for that fat check they get from Apple
 
2007-10-25 09:29:06 AM  
Apple is selling a lot of overpriced notebooks, but I credit that to several universities reccomending that all incoming students buy Macs. Their main reasoning is that there are less people writing spyware and viruses for Macs.

Of course, if you run good antivirus software a PC is just as safe, but they are betting that all incoming students are idiots who won't.
 
2007-10-25 09:37:09 AM  
Macs don't protect you from the AIDS virus
 
2007-10-25 10:06:51 AM  
I love how the Apple fanboys come in threads just looking for:

1) a fight/flame war

2) a way to state how freaking awesome they are because of their Apple stuff.


/wishes the Amiga would return with a Windows compatible system so I could use all my software on it.
 
2007-10-25 10:17:50 AM  
bubbaprog: Except almost everyone I know who has a Mac switched because, well, they liked it better than Windows. Unless Windows passes OS X in usability, nobody's going anywhere.

Funny, I know of about 2 people that went "MAC"... but I know of about several Apple users that returned to "PC".

I also deal with a few printers, and they all switched to PCs after being with Apple.

So depending your entourage, it goes both ways.

The difference that I see/have seen;

1) the PC users, including the switchers, talk about getting stuff done, or the stuff they are working on, not even mentioning their systems

2) the Apple users, also including the switchers, don't talk about ANYTHING BUT that they are using Apple devices, and how they are so much better (them or their machines? I never know, the lines get blury).

It's like once you go MAC, you don't do jack shiat, you just have a MAC... (or does IT have YOU!)

Normal people don't care about it. I know some normal people that have either system, and I love to talk shop with them, and compare, in a progressive fashion... but those that only believes that "THEY" have it all figured out, are so much better because of their machines... I've only seen this from Apple users... sorry.

/bum bum... (cue heavy piano scary music)
 
2007-10-25 10:26:11 AM  
imfallen_angel: I love how the Apple fanboys come in threads just looking for:

1) a fight/flame war


of course you love it. you _live_ for those flamewars.
 
2007-10-25 10:29:05 AM  
MoldyLoaf:
Apple would be the scariest monopoly ever.


Yes, but it would be the trendiest and coolest evil monopoly!

/has a PC and a Mobile Windows phone and loves them both
//ipod broke after a year
///still bitter
 
2007-10-25 10:29:41 AM  
Well, how about this:

I use an XP lap top at work, and have XP and Ubuntu installed on a desktop at home. (Ubuntu annoys the hell out of me due to its lack of drivers.)

I bought an Asus lap top. It had Vista on it. Vista annoyed me so much that I gave it away and I bought a Mac PowerBook (I had been considering getting a Mac since I use it a lot for video editing.)

That Mac now runs OSX, XP, and Ubuntu. I actually really like OSX (I didn't think I would), but when I need XP (on occasion) or Ubuntu (so far, never) on the Mac, I run them in a virtual machine window.
 
2007-10-25 10:39:15 AM  
Anyway, my point is that given the Intel chip and things like Boot Camp and Parallels, there's no meaningful difference between the Macs and any other computer - you can just run OSX on a Mac, and you can't on others. So I think the fanboys and the haters are both just wasting time.
 
2007-10-25 11:22:26 AM  
farkin enough already about macs! I use a mac at work and a PC at home and, well, I don't really give a shiat.
 
2007-10-25 11:24:27 AM  
MoldyLoaf: I certainly hope not. Apple strong-arms consumers into buying their hardware just to use an operating system.

I too, hope not. As an Mac owner, I know that monoculture is bad. Thank god for Linux, I guess. But your logic is wrong.

For the last time: Apple does not sell an operating system. Apple sells hardware, and bundles software with it as part of a value-added campaign. OSX isn't an operating system except in the most technical sense- it's a value-added goodie to make the hardware more desirable. OSX competes against companies like Dell and HP, not against Microsoft or Linux vendors.

People in general, and in specific the media, don't understand Apple's business model and that leads to a lot of confusing and pointless flamewars. The center of Apple's business is hardware. Any software they produce exists to move hardware. They'll never sell OSX as a standalone product because there's no margin in software- not like there is in hardware.
 
2007-10-25 11:33:03 AM  
golo606: farkin enough already about macs! I use a mac at work and a PC at home and, well, I don't really give a shiat.

Nobody held a sword to your throat and forced you to read that article or post here. Stop biatching, and get off the net for a couple of weeks. Leopard comes out tomorrow, and the Cupertino Hype Machine is going to get cranked up to 11.

/getting my copy of Leopard tomorrow
//it shipped today.
///yeah, I'm excited.
 
2007-10-25 11:42:35 AM  
Go Go Chinchilla!: /getting my copy of Leopard tomorrow
//it shipped today.
///yeah, I'm excited.


I'm just planning to walk into the local Apple store on Friday and pick one up there. Do you think I'll have a hard time getting one? I was a little put off when I discovered they had signs advertising that people should start lining up at 4. That ain't happening.
 
2007-10-25 11:49:02 AM  
t3knomanser: Do you think I'll have a hard time getting one?

It depends on how many Mac users are in your area. The nearest Apple store is about 45 minutes from where I live, so I never bothered to go there; I just buy everything online.
 
2007-10-25 11:57:11 AM  
Go Go Chinchilla!: The nearest Apple store is about 45 minutes from where I live

It's a trendy upscale urban neighborhood- so probably a lot. Let me put it this way- there's enough Mac users to justify two Apple stores within less than a half our drive of each other. My local one is a few blocks away. I pop in to fondle the iPhones from time to time.
 
2007-10-25 12:14:07 PM  
"How a tiny minority learned to love Apple and its Macs."
 
2007-10-25 12:58:59 PM  
7of7: The second they cease to be on the fringe their core audience will leave them.

WhyteRaven74: wow talk about not understanding the Mac market at all


Yeah for some people this is more like a religion and they ignore facts and reality -- 7of7 is a perfect example.
 
2007-10-25 01:15:34 PM  
210Khamen: Yeah for some people this is more like a religion and they ignore facts and reality -- 7of7 is a perfect example.

Not to take 7of7's defence, but seriously...

He's what? 1 person that's a bit fanatical about Microsoft.

There's how many rabid Apple fanboys/zealots that rant in just about ANY electronic thread? I've lost count.

Anyone non-Apple gets attacked, regardless what they use, heck, even some people that uses Apple stuff, that aren't "believers" in the Church of Apple gets rolled in here.

And no matter how many times they are told... it's not Apple or their products that's the problem... it's YOUR attitude.

(But regardless, I always get flamed as an Apple hater...even though, that is NOT it...(see previous sentence))

It's funny as hell, or is that sad as hell?... I get those two confused when it comes to Apple fanboys/zealots.

/if I'd be using a goat to access the internet, I'd still get flamed by the Apple crowd. Yes, you heard me right ... a goat.
 
2007-10-25 01:16:18 PM  
www.ctrlaltdel-online.com

i can't find a link to "My Name is Raven and I'm and Elitist Asshole"

Suck it, 6% of the global marketshare
 
2007-10-25 02:06:16 PM  
imfallen_angel: Anyone non-Apple gets attacked, regardless what they use, heck, even some people that uses Apple stuff, that aren't "believers" in the Church of Apple gets rolled in here.

What the hell are you talking about? I see nothing but crap directed at Mac users. And you know who's responsible? Those Ubuntu assholes. Yeah, I went there. You know who you are, you elitist Linux-using, BMW driving snobs.

//Wait... what?

apeiron242: Suck it, 6% of the global marketshare

Actually, it'd be awesome if more people had 6% marketshare. You know why? Because that would mean more vendors. More vendors means more competition, which means more innovation and better pricing.

Thanks to standardization, which OS used is less important. Everybody has OpenGL (As a developer, might I gently suggest that DIRECTX SHOULD DIE IN A FIRE(to be fair, it's been a few versions since I've used it- maybe it got better. Quartz still kicks its ass.)). Everybody is at least somewhat POSIX compliant. And everybody implements a usable subset of the W3C standards for web applications. With the growth of interpreted languages like Python and Ruby, coupled with the platform bridging tools like Cider and Rosetta- hardware and OS are becoming less important when evaluating software availability.

And that's how it should be. I should be able to walk up to any computer on earth, with any install disc, drop it in the drive and run the software- for at least a fair portion of functions.

//Oh, look. Heroes of Might and Magic V was cross-compiled for both platforms off the same code-base with no porting required. Maybe I should boot Windows in an emulator and play HOMM5 on my Mac and my Windows VM at the same time.
//Wait, I'll launch a linux VM too, and run it under WINE.
 
2007-10-25 02:13:08 PM  
"Anyone non-Apple gets attacked, regardless what they use, heck, even some people that uses Apple stuff, that aren't "believers" in the Church of Apple gets rolled in here."

I rarely find this to be the case. I'd say your overexaggerating this whole aspect because it gives you some perverse satisfaction to have a group of "people" to hate on.


For example, I have friends who I have told to "buy a PC instead of a Mac", because I felt it fit their needs better. But I'm a huge fan of Apple's products in general. But they've had their boneheaded mistakes, and I think they've learned a lot on the way. That's what a lot of "PC-guys" can't wrap their brains around. Apple has changed A LOT along the way, and as it stands, they are kicking serious ass.
 
2007-10-25 03:22:33 PM  
210Khamen: I rarely find this to be the case. I'd say your overexaggerating this whole aspect because it gives you some perverse satisfaction to have a group of "people" to hate on.

For example, I have friends who I have told to "buy a PC instead of a Mac", because I felt it fit their needs better. But I'm a huge fan of Apple's products in general. But they've had their boneheaded mistakes, and I think they've learned a lot on the way. That's what a lot of "PC-guys" can't wrap their brains around. Apple has changed A LOT along the way, and as it stands, they are kicking serious ass.


Like I mentioned, there is a difference between a "fan" and a "fanboy".

From thread to thread, I've seem many colors of the rainbow when it comes to Apple users. My statement is directed toward those that pretty much believe that only Apple should exist and anyone not user Apple is a sinner that needs to be burned alive.

I have not one problem or issue with a "fan", regardless if it's about Apple, oranges, goats. But those that go over the line, really go over the line.

All systems have their pro and cons.

The Apple "haters" are idiots (sorry for name calling, but) as they lack the vision of seeing that without Apple, or many other companies, the competition would be too low for those companies that produces that items that they like. The push to do better wouldn't be there.

But the "PC" haters are even bigger idiots, simply due to the fact
that they are missing the above point (in reversal of companies) and that, simply put, that it appears that regardless of what Apple does, they don't recognize that Apple isn't their "friend" doing them a favor, they are a company, out to make money. And whenever Apple pulls something, somehow, the fanboys/zealots will always justify it.

What gets me, is that if Apple does something, the zealots rant on and on about how great, how innovative Apple is.

But if ANY other company does something new, something similar, then this company is bad/wrong/etc. And their product, will be less than Apple's or less IF Apple made it.

With the Apple people, it's not a "Hey look at this, isn't this neat?" attitude, it's a "Hey, look how better my stuff is than yours, and how much better I am than you for using Apple stuff!" attitude that comes out.

And look at this comment... "overexaggerating this whole aspect because it gives you some perverse satisfaction to have a group of "people" to hate on"

This is part of the regular crap I see and get in these threads.

Apple fans (and such) seem to believe that if someone doesn't see it "YOUR" way, or it's about something that they haven't lived/seen, etc. then, this person is wrong, over the top,etc.

I am NOT exaggerating, this happens in just about every electronic thread... but being biaised (a fan), even just a bit, you might find yourself to 1)not see it, 2)agreeing with the ranting without realizing it.

"Perverse satisfaction"... another example... I couldn't care less, I actually find it funny... other times sad how much energy emanates from some people's posts.

"hate on" group of people. Why would I?

We are talking that IF I ask a question about something Apple.

I get flamed about my "stupidity" and lack of knowledge of all things Apple. Last time, I asked something, I got some good replies, others that were a bit borderline, and full blown flames.

I believe that you were there... so ask yourself again... do "I" have a hate on? nah... I'm just human, and get pissed off from being flamed for no other reason that some idiots have some deranged idea about life and self worth, having their lives revolved around a line of products.

/next therapy session will be next week, same location.
 
2007-10-25 03:35:02 PM  
I think that in these threads, the very nature of them is a flame. It's so easy to make assumptions, take offense when no offense was intended, and to be a pessimist in general. We all have our glasses on.
 
2007-10-25 03:37:02 PM  
moel Quote 2007-10-25 04:00:49 AM
One day in our lifetimes Apple will be the dominant platform. I predict another 2 releases of windows before that happens. (I'd give a figure in years...but hell we all know that predicted Microsoft Development times are almost as bad as the copy estimation times on Windows...)

Missed that by a couple of decades, sport. Apple WAS the dominant platform back in the Apple 2E days. Giving away a ton to schools and have a metric buttload of educational software helped as well. The GS was a worthy contender and IMHO, if Aurelio didn't kill off the Mark Twain 2 weeks before introduction, Apple could have kept their world lead. Methinks they piddled away their world lead with the Mac and ignoring what they had.
 
2007-10-25 03:43:33 PM  
Nightmaretony: Apple could have kept their world lead. Methinks they piddled away their world lead with the Mac and ignoring what they had.

They didn't really... most businesses were already using PC for their needs, which the first Apple machines couldn't do.

Plus, the moment other companies started to make PC compatibles, which could use the same software as the IBM machines,but for cheaper, Apple didn't have a chance.

But, what you are saying did work... for Microsoft. That's how they got so many people using Word (and other MS software). Getting it in schools, where, once someone is used to something, they fear using something else.

That's how they almost killed WordPerfect.

/can't stand MS Word
 
2007-10-25 03:46:43 PM  
imfallen_angel: With the Apple people, it's not a "Hey look at this, isn't this neat?" attitude, it's a "Hey, look how better my stuff is than yours, and how much better I am than you for using Apple stuff!" attitude that comes out.

Phuking nonsense. Any and every time the modmins greenlight a thread that has remotely something to do with Apple, there's a deluge of "OMG queue teh Apple fanbois."

Hence my post at 2007-10-25 06:16:03 AM in this thread.

/yes, it was early.
//dog wanted out
 
2007-10-25 03:49:54 PM  
210Khamen: I think that in these threads, the very nature of them is a flame. It's so easy to make assumptions, take offense when no offense was intended, and to be a pessimist in general. We all have our glasses on.

It depends on many factors.

I've found that if I ask a question about anything but Apple, I'll get decent answers, and lots of support. But any Apple question, leads to a flame somehow.

Just the attitude that radiates from some posts is just weird.

But I agree, I've had people believed that I was being negative, when I was just asking a question to see if I had anything that might help/assist them. But it's like you said... it's become second nature for some in here to just expect it.

Is it wrong? I think it's just human nature, I know that after thread after thread of getting flames by the Apple fanboys, I seriously got sick of it. I don't come here to flame... I come here to share/jest/have fun... and dear lord, some people are just nasty and take things way to seriously.
 
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