Sir Charles: It really is scary how many of you want to dictate the lifestyle of others.

Freedom ftw.

Freedom carries responsibility.

What does it matter? The Miyan calendar says the world will end on December 21 2012.

Thank god they're going to spare my Lincoln.

vernonFL: Is ethanol really an answer? Doesn't it take more energy in to get less energy out, ie, negative net energy?

The idea that ethanol takes more energy to make than you get out of it is pure FUD. Possibly from oil companies, though I can't prove it as such.
It IS true that corn is a lousy source of sugar, and relatively energy intensive to grow and process. The problem with corn in the US is that we now try to use it for just about everything, even though there are some things it's just not well suited for. Like ethanol production. Other sugar producing crops give a far better return (better than petroleum, even, as far as production/use energy balance). But we can't grow sugarcane like Brazil does, so we're looking for ways to break down cellulose (all the tough woody stuff in any plant).
They're working on it - it's not hard to do, just not competitive as far as price is concerned. They're making great strides with engineered organisms and enzymes, though. Once that problem is solved, corn (and pretty much everything else) should be fine and dandy for ethanol production.

/I might be wrong; if so someone please correct me. But from what I've heard, that's pretty much the gist of things

accujimmy: They want us out of their hemisphere? Ok, what will your nations be like when the US isn't exporting 1/3 of its wealth into your theocracies? Enjoy the sectarian violence Saudi Arabia!

Yeah, thank god for America making life the wonderland it is in the southern hemisphere

/you are so dumb it scares me.

Sir Charles
Not to say that I agree with the original poster, but you only have freedom as far as it doesn't harm someone else: driving has the potential to do that, through global warming, air pollution, instability through oil imports etc.

Kumana Wanalaia: My car runs on the misuse of apostrophe's, so I'm getting a kick out of these replies.

Apostrophe's motherfarker's! Do you use them's?

Crewmannumber6: Welcome to 1974

Wow, didn't realize gas cost over three bucks a gallon then.

And hell yes, welcome to 1974. When the greedmongers used up all our our available oil resources so they could export it and make obscene amounts of money instead of keeping it here at home.

Welcome to being Saudi Arabia's b*tch. THAT's 1974.

Anyone who bothers to do any reading would know that oil exploration peaked way back in the 70's, and oil production peaked early last year.

In less than 20 years, your children and mine will only be able to fly on an airplane if they're stinking rich because of the incredible increase we'll see in air travel (LOTS of fuel to fly). There won't be SUVs and there is NO good alternate fuel sources at this time ("Ethanol will save us!" is a total myth)

The salad days have come and gone.

my car runs on smug

whidbey: Crewmannumber6: Welcome to 1974

Wow, didn't realize gas cost over three bucks a gallon then.

And hell yes, welcome to 1974. When the greedmongers used up all our our available oil resources so they could export it and make obscene amounts of money instead of keeping it here at home.

Welcome to being Saudi Arabia's b*tch. THAT's 1974.

Adjusted for inflation, I believe that oil was more in in the 70s/80s than it is now. Can someone check me on this?

/lazy

KentuckyBob: I will subby, I will enjoy this sweet ass truck to the farking hilt.

That truck is looks gooder than hell!

I work for an engineering company designing new refineries so I am really getting a kick out of your replies.

/at least 7 new refineries and 3 expanded refineries in next 4 years in the US alone.
//No the sky is NOT falling.

theweatheruphereisfine: people that live within 3 miles of their work should be forbidden to own cars

Yes because people just use vehicular transport to get to and from work.

/You sir win the stupidest post of the month sir
//Have fun moving that new couch on public transit.

HA! I heard this back in 1973 too.

Repeak.

Yellowbeard: I've said it before and will say it again: Algae Biodiesel (new window)

That said, while I am worried that I will see peak oil in my lifetime (unless or until we make a switch to something renewable), today is not the day. Hell, there is a ton of oil (or, rather, millions or billions of tons, I suppose) in the oil sands of Canada alone that has yet to be tapped. As barrel prices rise, however, I promise you it will be.

do you work with Briggs or UNH Yellowbeard? too gunny you mention this - when I saw your link about algae, I said "hmm, just like they want to do at UNH" and lo and behold, that was your link.

I work for a large Northeast energy whole seller (so getting a kick, etc.) and we have been on NPR with Briggs and have met with him and his people a lot.

He has a very good idea, but the problem is practicality. The type of algae he suggests has to be grown in a controlled environment, can't just dredge Portsmouth harbor for it.

to make his model feasible, you'd need tank farms that stretched up the whole Maine coast.

good idea - just tough to produce the quantities needed to justify using all of that land for the tan farms he'd need.

spamdog: Farkin A Bubba: I remember 1977, when I was told in 7th grade that we'd be out of gasoline by 2000.Really have to question these rubbishy statements.

Your seventh grade teacher was a hippy so scientists are all wrong. That sounds reasonable.

BTW, you know who else thinks we've hit peak oil (no, not him)? The former heads of a few oil companies. They all say that oil companies lie about their reserves. A few years ago, didn't one of them get a 2 billion dollar fine for this?

Anyway, Saudi Arabia is one suspected of running out sooner than we'd like to think. Which would leave Iraq and Iran more strategically important... Hmmm...

I am getting this baby converted to run off of cow methane

acronym: my car runs on smug

Interesting. Because apparently KentuckyBob's produces it.

/smug, a renewable energy supply?

randomizetimer: I will just run my trucks and suvs on vegetarians. But I am not sure the smell of petchoulli exhaust will be worth the energy derived from hippies.

That's a horrible idea!
Hippies just don't contain that much energy, especially as far as your lipids are concerned. You'd need to render 3 or 4 hippies to get the same amount of transesterifiable fats that you can get from a single Wal-Mart customer. They're the real fuel of the future. Much easier to chase down and catch, and the resulting exhaust will smell like french fries instead of patchouli.

Shenanigans. There's still five centuries of world wide usage of coal in this country alone. Then again, we're known as the "Saudi Arabia" of coal. China is sitting on an ass load of it as well. I haven't heard a thing about uranium, but we have plenty of spent noocuular fuel sitting around that hasn't been touched. If it were all reprocessed, we'd have enough fuel for the reactors for a long time. Blame Carter for putting the boogeyman specter over reprocessing the spent rods (among other things). Blame the succeeding idiots for not reversing this. Hell, even the damned French reprocess their spent fuel!

That, and we're not yet at peak oil. That's coming, but not today. Getting rid of the mommy vans - and the people who drive them, might be a worthy goal that I'd get behind.

/mommy vans in the left lane should be hit with an RPG

We already saw this on Tuesday. Way to repost subby!

theweatheruphereisfine: people that live within 3 miles of their work should be forbidden to own cars

While I am among the tiny percentage of Americans who lives just three miles from work ... those three miles are dangerously unsafe to walk (or bicycle) in at night. So I'll drive, thanks.

/only fills up the car once per month (if that), anyhow

Sticky Hands
I think you missed the point during your nitpicking.

vernonFL, FarkingUpTheWrongTree: A 2005 paper says that ethanol is energy negative, taking more energy to produce than the final product will produce; but a 2006 report by the Department of Agriculture claims it's energy positive.

The energy provided in an engine that burns ethanol is about 34% lower than if it had been burning gasoline. If an engine were to use 100% ethanol, which would require an engine that wouldn't work with gasoline, you'd get 34% less MPG than the equivalent gasoline-burning engine.

GM, Chrysler, and some other car companies do make "flex fuel" engines that run on up to 85% ethanol. I don't know anything about the costs.

In the US, some cities (Portland, namely) require all gasoline sold to have 10% ethanol in the blend. In Brazil, it's 23%. Brazil is now self-sufficient in oil because of this.

Brazil and the US produce 90% of the world's ethanol.

Source, and much more information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel

//Don't go and modify the data to make me wrong, now

Herr Konditioner: The bottleneck isn't on the supply side (oil sources), it's at the production side (refineries). The last refinery built in the US was in 1976. The production companies (Exxon, BP, et al) agree to limit refinery output, thereby driving prices up and creating huge profits for themselves. They have created an oligopoly. They use environmental groups and the government to stop new refineries from being opened, thus keeping out competitors that would drive the price of oil down. Peak oil is just artificial scarcity to give them greater profits. Oil is plentiful.


Wrong.

Do a little research. Oil companies have steadily increased the size and output of the current refineries. In your little theory they wouldn't want to increase output. The only reason there aren't new refineries is because groups like greenpeace, environental regs, and nobody wants it in their backyard.

My comment is on the source of this story - CNN - rather than the content.

Has anyone else noticed the "Earth In Peril" graphic that CNN is running 24/7 lately? I know it's to hype some "special" they're promoting, but Geez Louise! Most people form conclusions by osmosis, and with the continuing coverage of the CA wildfires and that permanent graphic on the screen, people are going to think the fires are caused by global warming.

They aren't. This has happened to one degree or another in SoCal since I was a kid.

In fact, I remember my parents used to get all the news mags, and in 1974 (I think) one had "The Coming Ice Age" on the cover (Time?). That scared the hell out of me.

But even with that looming ice age, we still had the damn fires and Santa Ana's.

Now of course it's global warming, and that ice age predicted by the best scientific minds back in 1974 never materialized. I happen to believe the Earth is warming. My problem is with those "experts" who think the main cause is human activity.

The Earth warms up, the Earth cools down. It has done so long before humans were around.

Hey CNN... The Earth may in fact be "in peril" (for a variety of reasons - not just warming!), but that's NOT the cause of the SoCal fires...

for good or for awesome: KentuckyBob: I will subby, I will enjoy this sweet ass truck to the farking hilt.

That truck is looks gooder than hell!

Dang - You beat me to it!

Peak oil isn't something to be worried about, for now. Peak oil means that there is more petroleum energy available now than ever before, hence the low prices.

I filled my truck up yesterday for 90 cents per liter ($3.40 a gallon), a price I haven't paid since the nineties.

In twenty years, though, I bet it's going to be a very different situation.

liam76: The only reason there aren't new refineries is because groups like greenpeace, environental regs, and nobody wants it in their backyard.

Derp! Way to read, guy.

SVX: That, and we're not yet at peak oil. That's coming, but not today.

Based on what? Your years of market research? A decade spent studying it at an institute of higher learning?

I haven't heard a thing about uranium, but we have plenty of spent noocuular fuel sitting around that hasn't been touched. If it were all reprocessed, we'd have enough fuel for the reactors for a long time.

So I guess you've also done studies and experiments as to how to reprocess spentnooclear fuel and its' viability as a fuel source? Did you order a kit on the Internet on how to do it?

I call boolsheet on you, and your entire presentation of facts that you have pulled from your rectum.

Now I want some Doritos for some reason.

Nostradamus predicted peak oil.

who are we to argue with Nostradamus

BrianJLG: Has anyone else noticed the "Earth In Peril" graphic that CNN is running 24/7 lately?

same idea as the War of Terror that Fox News keeps pushing

/no snark, both channels have their causes that speak to their customer bases the best - and repetition helps sink that message in

Not my problem, it's my kid's problem in 20 years. Ask me if I care.

swankywanky: Yellowbeard: I've said it before and will say it again: Algae Biodiesel (new window)

That said, while I am worried that I will see peak oil in my lifetime (unless or until we make a switch to something renewable), today is not the day. Hell, there is a ton of oil (or, rather, millions or billions of tons, I suppose) in the oil sands of Canada alone that has yet to be tapped. As barrel prices rise, however, I promise you it will be.

do you work with Briggs or UNH Yellowbeard? too gunny you mention this - when I saw your link about algae, I said "hmm, just like they want to do at UNH" and lo and behold, that was your link.

I work for a large Northeast energy whole seller (so getting a kick, etc.) and we have been on NPR with Briggs and have met with him and his people a lot.

He has a very good idea, but the problem is practicality. The type of algae he suggests has to be grown in a controlled environment, can't just dredge Portsmouth harbor for it.

to make his model feasible, you'd need tank farms that stretched up the whole Maine coast.

good idea - just tough to produce the quantities needed to justify using all of that land for the tan farms he'd need.

I don't work for, nor am I in any way associated with UNH or anyone associated with them.

I /did/ work for a federally funded rural transportation research center for several years. It was during my tenure there that I heard about UNH's project and read the white paper I posted here.

I understand that production would be difficult, but compare it to drilling in the ocean, and I think it seems a lot more feasible.

Tank farms, also, have the very attractive advantage of being able to be located on non-arable land, the best place to locate them being the desert, because of all the available sunlight.

Is it expensive? Yes. However, so is oil exploration/extraction.

Also, algae biodiesel has a major advantage over petroleum based products in that the means of production can be spread across a larger spectrum of producers, strengthening the economy by diversifying the means of wealth creation.

BrianJLG: In fact, I remember my parents used to get all the news mags, and in 1974 (I think) one had "The Coming Ice Age" on the cover (Time?). That scared the hell out of me.



Jesus Christ.

randomjsa:

Oil companies make 9 cents a gallon, the government charges multiple times that amount in gas taxes and doesn't have to spend a dime.

You are aware that with that gas tax money, the gub'mint builds and repairs hundreds of thousands of miles of very, very expensive roads. This is attached to the gas tax to make it somewhat more fair (people who drive more pay more). Gas taxes in the US don't even come close to paying the entire cost of roads and streets (additional money comes out of general revenue). Gasoline is, as regards schools, wars, and other things, an *untaxed* good.

burndtdan: Quantum Apostrophe: DistendedPendulusFrenulum: My opinion is that capacitors will improve to the point we'll be using untapped nighttime electrical grid capacity to charge our cars while we sleep.

Je suis optimiste--I think cars and truck will be better as we wean ourselves off of oil.

.

Sure, and having something around with the energy density of an explosive with the capacity to discharge it all in milliseconds will be just great. Liquid gasoline needs to be atomized to burn quickly, the liquid stuff just burns. A shorted capacitor will simply explode with all the energy it had.

Time to buy more energy funds folks. Unless you think that cardboard box that needs a fossil fuel infrastructure to keep going, aka a house, is some kind of investment.

because the current shortcomings of a system detail the shortcomings of that system throughout the rest of time despite advances in thought and technology. obviously.

might i remind you of clarke's first law.

When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.

Well, that, and I don't think future vehicles should be held to the standard "couldn't possibly kill anyone regardless." Maybe if they're better than what we have, that's good enough.

I'm gonna buy me a Mercury and cruise it up and down the road

sseye: spamdog: Farkin A Bubba: I remember 1977, when I was told in 7th grade that we'd be out of gasoline by 2000.Really have to question these rubbishy statements.

Your seventh grade teacher was a hippy so scientists are all wrong. That sounds reasonable.

BTW, you know who else thinks we've hit peak oil (no, not him)? The former heads of a few oil companies. They all say that oil companies lie about their reserves. A few years ago, didn't one of them get a 2 billion dollar fine for this?

Anyway, Saudi Arabia is one suspected of running out sooner than we'd like to think. Which would leave Iraq and Iran more strategically important... Hmmm...

Technology and ingenuity will find a way to stretch the supply at an ever increasing price, while electric car and alternative fuel technologies mature.

As for the turbo diesels in my boat- well, I hope someone is working on 250hp reactor technology...

I like the idea of every Chinese family having two cars, one SUV + one Hummer. Then, just to make sure oil companies can keep pumps running, in India the same thing.

Thats few more cars to fill up...

Yellowbeard: swankywanky: Yellowbeard: I've said it before and will say it again: Algae Biodiesel (new window)

That said, while I am worried that I will see peak oil in my lifetime (unless or until we make a switch to something renewable), today is not the day. Hell, there is a ton of oil (or, rather, millions or billions of tons, I suppose) in the oil sands of Canada alone that has yet to be tapped. As barrel prices rise, however, I promise you it will be.

do you work with Briggs or UNH Yellowbeard? too gunny you mention this - when I saw your link about algae, I said "hmm, just like they want to do at UNH" and lo and behold, that was your link.

I work for a large Northeast energy whole seller (so getting a kick, etc.) and we have been on NPR with Briggs and have met with him and his people a lot.

He has a very good idea, but the problem is practicality. The type of algae he suggests has to be grown in a controlled environment, can't just dredge Portsmouth harbor for it.

to make his model feasible, you'd need tank farms that stretched up the whole Maine coast.

good idea - just tough to produce the quantities needed to justify using all of that land for the tan farms he'd need.

I don't work for, nor am I in any way associated with UNH or anyone associated with them.

I /did/ work for a federally funded rural transportation research center for several years. It was during my tenure there that I heard about UNH's project and read the white paper I posted here.

I understand that production would be difficult, but compare it to drilling in the ocean, and I think it seems a lot more feasible.

Tank farms, also, have the very attractive advantage of being able to be located on non-arable land, the best place to locate them being the desert, because of all the available sunlight.

Is it expensive? Yes. However, so is oil exploration/extraction.

Also, algae biodiesel has a major advantage over petroleum based products in that the means of production can be spread across a larger spectrum of producers, strengthening the economy by diversifying the means of wealth creation.

all good points - we have a bit of an issue with Briggs since he has basically submarined us a few times for currently marketing a soy-based Biodiesel (and Bioheat oil as well)

he is saying that we are wasting our time and effort

our answer is and will continue to be - you may have a great idea, but at least we're doing something about it right now, today, and not waiting until the infrastructure may or may not be in place to use your idea.