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(Expatica)   Saying that Muslims shouldn't beat women? That's a fatwah and a death sentence. (Hero tag is for the hittable Ms. Ali)   ( expatica.com) divider line
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52547 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Oct 2007 at 2:29 PM (9 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-10-16 05:45:05 PM  
Doggie McNugget: Arthur Jumbles:
Deuteronomy 22:20-21: But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel. Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.


Holy crap, you're right. I'd better tell my Rabbi right away, we've been doing it wrong!


I hope you have. I don't understand why anyone would align themselves with a religion that advocates such treatment.
 
2007-10-16 05:46:50 PM  
A far more appropriate tag for the world-class troll that is Ayaan Hirsi Ali would be this:
i67.photobucket.com

For more details:
Ayaan Hirsi Ali proves that even stupidity is dangerous
 
2007-10-16 05:49:33 PM  
Sammy Jenkins: kramers_hair:

After all, who am *I* to say that God's rules are stupid/meaningless/a waste of time/whatever?

If God does exist, I would hope that he would reward those who actually thought about things and made their own decisions and ended up doing the right thing rather than those who just read a bunch of rules out of a book and only did the right thing because they were afraid of punishment.


Sammy, you are on track, read on: Matt 25:31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

His command? Love.
 
2007-10-16 05:49:41 PM  
He_Hate_Me: A far more appropriate tag for the world-class troll that is Ayaan Hirsi Ali would be this:


For more details:
Ayaan Hirsi Ali proves that even stupidity is dangerous


I'm convinced, let's kill her for what she says, it's the american way...
Then perhaps we can do the same to all the trolls...

/you might want to invest in a flak jacket bud...
 
2007-10-16 05:49:49 PM  
Sofa King Smart

GOD 'says' that... or some human 'says' that GOD said that to him?

THIS.

For some reason, God only talks to people who want to control me.
 
2007-10-16 05:50:15 PM  
As usual, a lot of Islamophobia most of it probably coming from Americans.

I swear, Americans aren't happy unless they constantly have some society to turn into the boogeyman.

1. The Native Americans
2. The Germans
3. The Japanese
4. The Soviets
5. The Muslims

So, who are we going to simultaneously hate and shiat our pants in fear of next?
 
2007-10-16 05:53:37 PM  
Arthur Jumbles: I hope you have. I don't understand why anyone would align themselves with a religion that advocates such treatment.

Well, to put it another way, take the United States (or, for that matter, any country in the world, whichever one you believe in the most).

There is no country that hasn't committed some terrible atrocities, whether they're genocidal, related to slavery, or just the bad stereotypes that they hold. There can still be beautiful things about those countries. The people can still believe in what those countries stand for while rejecting the bad and learning from mistakes and the mindset that creates them.

I love America, but I disagree with some of the core principles the country was founded on, some of which are still in the law. I will vote and work to change those things, but I won't reject the country. That's just not as helpful.
 
2007-10-16 05:55:26 PM  
Tyee
She writes a good and enlightening book too, especially if you are unfamiliar w/ Islam.

I strongly recommend most anything by Karen Armstrong. She has a book specifically about Islam. Very well researched... and given the topic, fairly easy to read.
 
2007-10-16 05:55:56 PM  
What happened? I go down the street to the mechanic's to pick up my car and the thread quickly digresses from a discussion of wife beating and cute North African chicks into a discussion about the history and evolution of religious thought!?! I'm getting a cold beer and watching this for a while.

But I would like to get back to good looking African women who don't look like they have been beaten.
 
2007-10-16 05:57:18 PM  
Infinite Entropy: Somacandra: Probably the best commentary on Ali has come from Eboo Patel, who pointed out that "the only reason we pay attention to Ayaan Hirsi Ali is because of the maniacal Muslims who want to murder her. Her superficial insights are made infinitely more interesting by the fact that there are nut jobs out there who would do her in for making them. (new window)." Having read an digested her thin screeds, I'm convinced that Ms. Ali is nothing more than Ann Coulter in blackface, as are her "observations" about worldwide Islam. Fine, give her all the taxpayer-paid protection she wants, as we would anyone threatened. But buying her books? That's a smack with the stupid bat.

Honeslty, do you have any idea how effing conceited you sound? This woman GREW UP in a very repressive form of Islam! How can you so casually dismiss her insights? It effing happend to her! Her vag is freaking mutilated! Is this how you respond to everything you disagree with, conceited dismissiveness? WOuld you talk this way about Holocaust survivors?


Well, we don't really know what part of her made up history is true. She made up a back story and a false name to get into holland. Her family has often said she made up a whole bunch of stuff.

/her real name is Ayaan Magan for example....
 
2007-10-16 06:01:02 PM  
Tatsuma: Not even Jewish mothers are THAT good.

Didn't Asimov say that all mothers are Jewish mothers?

/This post has no real point, just trying to cool the debate a bit with non-issues.
 
2007-10-16 06:01:31 PM  
Sammy Jenkins

Does it reallly matter what Tatsuma believes, as long as he isn't beheading anyone because of it?
 
2007-10-16 06:02:48 PM  
"hittable Ms. Ali"? She looks like a monkey.
 
2007-10-16 06:06:35 PM  
stiletto_the_wise: As usual, a lot of Islamophobia most of it probably coming from Americans. So, who are we going to simultaneously hate and shiat our pants in fear of next?


i23.tinypic.com
 
2007-10-16 06:07:53 PM  
Sofa King Smart: I strongly recommend most anything by Karen Armstrong. She has a book specifically about Islam. Very well researched... and given the topic, fairly easy to read.

I second the recommendation for Karen Armstrong books. Not too difficult reads for us who aren't Harold Bloom. But be forwarned. I once tried to discuss Armstrong's A History of God with my sister-in-law and she wouldn't speak with me for almost a year. Don't discuss the books with people who hold tightly to simple faith. They may get offended by the academic viewpoint.

Not that there's anything wrong with simple faith.
 
2007-10-16 06:11:05 PM  
Arthur Jumbles: Tatsuma: Arthur Jumbles: I know enough about Judaism, Christianity, and Islam to know that their religious documents state that women are not equal to men and that force can be used to punish them if they disobey

You know jackshiat about Judaism because our religious texts say that woman are more complete than men and it's STRICTLY forbidden to hit a woman.

But stoning them is fine....

Deuteronomy 22:20-21: But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel. Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

/Jackass


And thanking God you're not one is also A-OK

"Blessed art Thou, Lord our God, King of the universe, who hast not made me a woman."

If a woman cheats on her husband, he must divorce her. If he cheats on her, eh.
If a woman is barren, her husband can divorce her. If he's shooting blanks, eh.
Only the husband can initiate the divorce. The woman can go to the rabinical court who may or may not OK the divorce.

But no, women aren't treated as second class citizens.
 
2007-10-16 06:12:05 PM  
Tatsuma: /Yeah, Buddhists used their religion as a reason to wage war and kill people.

Recently??
I know historically it's another story, but in recent conflicts involving Buddhists, are they killing on behalf of their religion?
 
2007-10-16 06:12:25 PM  
I use to plant my face in the palm of my hand, so I'm getting a real kick out of all these replies...

/have no clue where this train wreck has gone either
//really am getting a kick out of all the facepalm pics
 
2007-10-16 06:17:32 PM  
Tatsuma: Arthur Jumbles: I know enough about Judaism, Christianity, and Islam to know that their religious documents state that women are not equal to men and that force can be used to punish them if they disobey

You know jackshiat about Judaism because our religious texts say that woman are more complete than men and it's STRICTLY forbidden to hit a woman.


I agree with you that Judaism (and as I've said, any religion) isn't inherently sexist (far from it), but just so you're aware in the future, referring to women as "more complete" than men is very sexist.

Implying that women are up on a pedestal is one of the ways that sexists enforce their viewpoints.
 
2007-10-16 06:21:09 PM  
FarkingUpTheWrongTree: I know historically it's another story, but in recent conflicts involving Buddhists, are they killing on behalf of their religion?

Yeah, I'm sure they are, somewhere. Possibly in Indonesia. You hear less about it because there are less Buddhists, because they're one of the few religions that don't actively recruit--there's a lot less Buddhists than there used to be. Even less when they're fighting wars.

But again, religions aren't fighting wars, men are using religions as a justification to fight wars.
 
2007-10-16 06:22:19 PM  
stiletto_the_wise:

So, who are we going to simultaneously hate and shiat our pants in fear of next?

We're going to be invaded by extraterrestrials.
 
2007-10-16 06:23:50 PM  
svenbertil: "hittable Ms. Ali"? She looks like a monkey.

DIAF. You are wasting precious oxygen.
 
2007-10-16 06:24:35 PM  
Kinda fast and loose with that "hittable " comment isn't he? The submitter that is.
 
2007-10-16 06:25:21 PM  
stiletto_the_wise: As usual, a lot of Islamophobia most of it probably coming from Americans.

I swear, Americans aren't happy unless they constantly have some society to turn into the boogeyman.

1. The Native Americans
2. The Germans
3. The Japanese
4. The Soviets
5. The Muslims

So, who are we going to simultaneously hate and shiat our pants in fear of next?


Dependstm...
 
2007-10-16 06:25:56 PM  
CatJumpJohn: Arthur Jumbles: I hope you have. I don't understand why anyone would align themselves with a religion that advocates such treatment.

Well, to put it another way, take the United States (or, for that matter, any country in the world, whichever one you believe in the most).

There is no country that hasn't committed some terrible atrocities, whether they're genocidal, related to slavery, or just the bad stereotypes that they hold. There can still be beautiful things about those countries. The people can still believe in what those countries stand for while rejecting the bad and learning from mistakes and the mindset that creates them.

I love America, but I disagree with some of the core principles the country was founded on, some of which are still in the law. I will vote and work to change those things, but I won't reject the country. That's just not as helpful.


Oh..... I agree with you. That's also one of the reasons I like the Thomas Jefferson Bible. I just wish more people would edit out and delete the hateful parts of their religions while also working to make real the positive aspects.
 
2007-10-16 06:26:28 PM  
kramers_hair: Manic_Repressive

Tatsuma: The first example of someone or something going against G-d's will in the Torah were the trees.

Hard core. Even Islam makes more sense in this category: According to Muslims inanimate objects, animals, trees and children are incapable of "sin".

Say what you will, at least that makes (some) sense, unlike the idea that a tree could sin.


Was my post obscure? On Fark? No effin' way...

stiletto_the_wise: So, who are we going to simultaneously hate and shiat our pants in fear of next?

Eskimos. Those shifty-eyed little bastards!
 
2007-10-16 06:26:35 PM  
UnkleKrakker: So, who are we going to simultaneously hate and shiat our pants in fear of next?

The Canadians!
 
2007-10-16 06:27:35 PM  
Tatsuma, when will I be able to meet an orthodox female rabbi?
 
2007-10-16 06:28:59 PM  
www.fotothing.com
 
2007-10-16 06:33:18 PM  
Ravie: Sammy Jenkins

Does it reallly matter what Tatsuma believes, as long as he isn't beheading anyone because of it?


Yes, He is actively helping spread the virus. Even to completely defenceless children. All religious people are in some way responsible for the terrorists, they provide the foundation for their delusions by joining the same "clubs"...
 
2007-10-16 06:33:39 PM  
Manic_Repressive:

Was my post obscure? On Fark? No effin' way...



No, Rush just sucks.
 
2007-10-16 06:35:05 PM  
fireclown: But you, sir, are not taking into account the liberal advances in swimware. May I present . . . . . The BURKINI (not a joke. Google it.)

I say burkini's all around
 
2007-10-16 06:36:40 PM  
wmoonfox: kramers_hair: No, can you clarify the reference?

Tree rape. Yes, rape... by a tree.


The Evil Dead?
 
2007-10-16 06:39:01 PM  
Prohest: Ravie: Sammy Jenkins

Does it reallly matter what Tatsuma believes, as long as he isn't beheading anyone because of it?

Yes, He is actively helping spread the virus. Even to completely defenceless children. All religious people are in some way responsible for the terrorists, they provide the foundation for their delusions by joining the same "clubs"...


Those bastard Buddhists!! I guess we should be rooting for the military government in Burma then?
 
2007-10-16 06:41:11 PM  
I like my women a little less angry. Sue me.
 
2007-10-16 06:41:47 PM  
T-Boy
I second the recommendation for Karen Armstrong books. Not too difficult reads for us who aren't Harold Bloom. But be forwarned. I once tried to discuss Armstrong's A History of God with my sister-in-law and she wouldn't speak with me for almost a year.

I read 'A History of God' first... then 'The Battle for God'... that one got a little long on the mythos vs logos stuff... but I like the way she ties together mythology, psychology, sociology, pretty much all of those -ologies... into a kind of unified theory of religion.
 
2007-10-16 06:42:17 PM  
Ravie: Sammy Jenkins

Does it reallly matter what Tatsuma believes, as long as he isn't beheading anyone because of it?


I don't know what Tatsuma has done or will do because of his religion. Behead someone? Probably not. Drop cluster bombs on women and children? It's entirely possible.
 
2007-10-16 06:43:34 PM  
Sammy Jenkins: Ravie: Sammy Jenkins

Does it reallly matter what Tatsuma believes, as long as he isn't beheading anyone because of it?

I don't know what Tatsuma has done or will do because of his religion. Behead someone? Probably not. Drop cluster bombs on women and children? It's entirely possible.


Tats has his own air force?
 
2007-10-16 06:43:54 PM  
yalibnan.com
 
2007-10-16 06:46:27 PM  
tasteslikegreen
Kinda fast and loose with that "hittable " comment isn't he? The submitter that is.

...ummm re read the headline... article about 'beating' muslim women... subby says she'shiattable'... get it?
 
2007-10-16 06:48:27 PM  
Phil Moskowitz: albo: Phil Moskowitz: So many blind people here.

the woman tells you in her own words that she is nobody's tool and under no obligation to advance AEI's evil necon agenda, and yet you persist?

You didn't even read my own post saying that she wasn't coerced, did you? You're hung up on this word tool aren't you? That's a shocker. That doesn't mean she's coerced, it means she's an asset to them because they already know her ethos. Get it? Tool? A device? A useful addition to ones intellectual tool chest?

Christ.. just.. shove off already.



Why should he? You've been trying to discredit this woman by association - a clear logical fallacy.

If you're now going to try and claim that you called this woman a "tool" of the AEI - who have apparently treated her with admirable academic freedom that they should be given credit for - just you know to MENTION it or something, and not trying to discredit her with it, then it's going to be apparent to all who read this exactly how disengenuous you are willing to be.

If she is an example of an AEI "tool" then I'd submit we should be paying a lot more attention to their toolbox, as they seem to have some pretty sharp ones in there.

But no, they have conservatives among their fellows so I suppose we should listen to the disengenuous internet nerd instead... No one even remotely connected to one of those heathen conservatives could ever say something worthwhile. We must protect the groupthink at all costs... Political diverisity will not be tolerated!


gilgigamesh: I am surprised to see, and I think its admirable, that farkers universally have stopped responding to Afternoon_Delight's pathetic attention whoring.

Time for a new alt, friend. The magic is gone.



I like him. You don't speak for everyone. I don't feel the need to respond to him... His pictures already say a thousand words - and I'm verbose enough on my own.
 
2007-10-16 06:49:06 PM  
Sammy Jenkins

I don't know what Tatsuma has done or will do because of his religion. Behead someone? Probably not. Drop cluster bombs on women and children? It's entirely possible.

He moved to the West Bank.
 
2007-10-16 06:54:18 PM  
Hit her? Sure, I'm really into excision scars!
 
2007-10-16 06:58:40 PM  
mongbiohazard: His pictures already say a thousand words -

I see just one:

Dumb.
 
2007-10-16 06:58:57 PM  
Just felt like posting this:

img.photobucket.com

t was meant for Sammy Jenkins, but I guess he's already long gone.
 
2007-10-16 07:04:18 PM  
Sammy Jenkins:

I don't know what Tatsuma has done or will do because of his religion. Behead someone? Probably not. Drop cluster bombs on women and children? It's entirely possible.


The above poster.....I'm sorry - you FAIL
 
2007-10-16 07:05:42 PM  
wyltoknow: I'm sure that this thread will be full of reasonable discourse and logical arguments.

I want to kill all theists. Reasonable enough?
 
2007-10-16 07:11:42 PM  
Very_Powerful_Man: I want to kill all theists. Reasonable enough?

Violence is not the answer. No matter what your respective holy books say.
 
2007-10-16 07:14:46 PM  
Very_Powerful_Man: wyltoknow: I'm sure that this thread will be full of reasonable discourse and logical arguments.

I want to kill all theists. Reasonable enough?


Ooooh, oh oh, atheism is a religion, I knew it!
 
2007-10-16 07:15:32 PM  
devioustrevor: I'd like to see some of those strong, virile Muslim men that advocate beating women step into a ring with a certain Muslim woman, that being Laila Ali. I'd pay to see that. You listening HBO?


WIN
 
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