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(Herald Tribune (SW Florida))   Man arrested for cursing under "Offenses Against Public Morals" municipal code. Guess which state   (heraldtribune.com) divider line 115
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5433 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Oct 2007 at 11:27 AM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-10-09 10:32:49 AM  
So I guess that whole "Freedom of speech" thing you guys constantly tout is total f*cking bullsh*t.
 
2007-10-09 10:56:01 AM  
OlafTheBent: So I guess that whole "Freedom of speech" thing you guys constantly tout is total f*cking bullsh*t.

You're free to speak what you want until it offends some whiner. Then you're a terrorist. We outsourced the vast middle ground to China.

This code has slipperly slope written all over it. Check out the vague language.

The city's public morals rules include prohibitions against gambling boats, visiting a "house of ill fame" and "being in a public place in a state of nudity or in a dress not belonging to such person's sex."

Sounds like circa 1920s language.
 
2007-10-09 11:00:11 AM  
Children, blah, freedom, blah, responsibility, blah ...

I'm getting sick of this crap. I'm also getting sick of defending the rights of jackasses who make the rest of look like morans for trying to defend our freedoms by their actions.

Come on, sitting in a park drinking alcohol while yelling obscenities near minors? I may not like what you have to say, but I'll defend your right to say it - except I'm getting sick of always having to defend people like this against the neo-cons and nanny-staters.

All I'll say here is yes he was wrong, yes he should have thought about his actions beforehand but no, you can't start legislating morality like this. Given the choice between taking my children to a park where adults might be screaming obscenities or a park where people's speech is monitored and governed by morality police, I'd rather deal with the cussing.

I can explain four-letter words to my children far easier than I can explain why other people's morality controls what they have the freedom to say or not.
 
2007-10-09 11:11:16 AM  
Fellows: Couldn't agree more. It's always the wackos who push the envelope. Plus, doesn't this all fall under existing laws of indecency and creating a public nuisance? Why the need for a "morals" category?
 
2007-10-09 11:16:53 AM  
Diogenes: This code has slipperly slope written all over it. Check out the vague language.

... it was a joke... with the cursing at the end... awww, forget it.
 
2007-10-09 11:27:37 AM  
www.toolsformentoring.com
 
2007-10-09 11:29:02 AM  
OlafTheBent: Diogenes: This code has slipperly slope written all over it. Check out the vague language.

... it was a joke... with the cursing at the end... awww, forget it.


I'm rather daft and humorless today. My comment wasn't about the text of your post (though I totally glossed over your joke). ;-)
 
2007-10-09 11:29:42 AM  
The whole "guess which state" thing would work a lot better if there wasn't a Florida tag mere inches from the question.
 
2007-10-09 11:29:44 AM  
The politicians that passed this law should have to foot the entire bill to have it over turned. It will be found unconstitutional, everyone knew that when it was passed in the first place. It will cost millions to get it overturned and found unconstitutional, those politicians should have to pay for that out of their own pocket.
 
2007-10-09 11:30:58 AM  
Aaaw, PISS out my AAASS!
 
2007-10-09 11:31:15 AM  
OlafTheBent: So I guess that whole "Freedom of speech" thing you guys constantly tout is total f*cking bullsh*t.

You obviously don't have any kids.

/Earmuffs
 
2007-10-09 11:31:53 AM  
Dogbeast: The whole "guess which state" thing would work a lot better if there wasn't a Florida tag mere inches from the question.

Mother-farking THIS. Exactly what I came in here to say.

/Because I have nothing of substance to contribute.
 
2007-10-09 11:32:25 AM  
Cursing in front of children like a psychopath is a RIGHT I HAVE!!!

I'm gonna stand out front of your childs preschool too, yelling "biatch fAG NIGEER coont ASSHOLE farkHEAD".
 
2007-10-09 11:32:48 AM  
Maybe he couldn't work with the Three Seashells.
 
2007-10-09 11:33:38 AM  
Fellows: Come on, sitting in a park drinking alcohol while yelling obscenities near minors? I may not like what you have to say, but I'll defend your right to say it - except I'm getting sick of always having to defend people like this against the neo-cons and nanny-staters.


Be sure to give me your address. I'll be there at 3:00am, on the public sidewalk, yelling obscenities at the top of my lungs.

Just exercising my free speech.
 
2007-10-09 11:33:47 AM  
Laws like this one have been repeatedly struck down by courts as unconstitutional. It's just a matter of needing a test case to get this one struck down too.
 
2007-10-09 11:34:19 AM  
IT'S THE LAW

Sec. 21-86. Profanity, obscenity, etc., addressed to child; taking or inviting child to ride in vehicle.

No person shall use vile, indecent, profane, vulgar, obscene or improper language in the presence of or addressed to a child under the age of eighteen (18) years, or make any indecent, repulsive or improper advances or proposals to such child, or, without lawful authority, frighten, intimidate, torment or lay hands upon such child for a ride in a vehicle with intent to make any indecent, repulsive, or improper advances or proposals to such child.


Who do I speak with to obtain said lawful authority?
 
2007-10-09 11:35:17 AM  
Anyone who thinks this guy didn't deserve to get arrested should be tasered repeatedly.
 
2007-10-09 11:36:08 AM  
me thinks not only should the bum be charged i also hope he received a little smackdown on the side. you stupid farkers can't always be asshats.
 
2007-10-09 11:37:09 AM  
There was a similar case in Michigan. A man fell out of his canoe during a camping trip, and swore up a blue streak. The tender eared people in the area called the police and the man was arrested under some arcane 18th century law.

1st Amendment, anyone. You do not have the right not to be offended.
 
2007-10-09 11:38:24 AM  

Had a ex-roommate who's 11 year old son used all kinds of swears. Even said c*nt one time. Of course this wouldn't be a surprise if you ever met the kid's father.


I remember when I was a kid, I had to censor myself at home. I caught myself a couple of times almost swearing in front of my parents.

 
2007-10-09 11:38:32 AM  
guppyjones: me thinks not only should the bum be charged i also hope he received a little smackdown on the side. you stupid farkers can't always be asshats.

Yes actually we can.
 
2007-10-09 11:39:25 AM  
Well, that's a mightily unnecessary 'Zoom' button under the article mugshot.
 
2007-10-09 11:40:36 AM  
MugzyBrown: Be sure to give me your address. I'll be there at 3:00am, on the public sidewalk, yelling obscenities at the top of my lungs.

Just exercising my free speech.


Public park in the middle of the day vs outside a private residence at 3 a.m. - bit of a difference, wouldn't you say?

And if you can't see the fundamental difference here, there's no help for you.
 
2007-10-09 11:40:39 AM  
Spider Rico: There was a similar case in Michigan. A man fell out of his canoe during a camping trip, and swore up a blue streak. The tender eared people in the area called the police and the man was arrested under some arcane 18th century law.

1st Amendment, anyone. You do not have the right not to be offended.


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

/8th grade civics
 
2007-10-09 11:42:30 AM  
guppyjones: me thinks not only should the bum be charged i also hope he received a little smackdown on the side. you stupid farkers can't always be asshats.

Is that a challenge? ;-)

Yes, he should have been arrested, or at least fined and reprimanded and asked to leave the area. It's this 'moral code' thing that's the problem. His behavior is already covered by existing law. There's no need for this vague and easily abused 'moral code'.
 
2007-10-09 11:43:20 AM  
Fellows: Public park in the middle of the day vs outside a private residence at 3 a.m. - bit of a difference, wouldn't you say?

And if you can't see the fundamental difference here, there's no help for you.


Ahh so now you have a gray area in your strict-constitutional argument? So where does yourgray area begin and end?

I guess given this choice, you'd rather have people's speech monitored and governed?
 
2007-10-09 11:47:38 AM  
So, it is illegal to cross-dress in that town? What if it is for a costume party? What if it isn't? How can that be illegal, assuming one isn't using it to peep in locker rooms, rest rooms, etc...?

I'm full of questions today.
 
2007-10-09 11:47:41 AM  
MugzyBrown: Ahh so now you have a gray area in your strict-constitutional argument? So where does yourgray area begin and end?

I guess given this choice, you'd rather have people's speech monitored and governed?


Now you're stretching. I was simply pointing out distinct differences between the two situations you tried to pass off as the same.

You'd be hard pressed to find a convincing argument as to why screaming obscenities at the top of your lungs at 3 a.m. in a residential area should fall under protected speech.

I can think of a myriad of reasons as to how obscenities in a public area is protected speech, however.
 
2007-10-09 11:48:17 AM  
... Michigan?

I still remember that every time I'm yelling "f--k!" to my coworker as we stop sprinting for the bus we just missed, right outside the Farmer's Market.

As it's my neighborhood, and I don't give a damn about visiting suburbanites, I yell it anyhow. I spend my entire work day dealing with the public, I get to swear when I'm not.

If only to spin how they manage "offending to women and children" when I, myself, am I woman who was not offended. Obviously. If I was saying the profanities myself.

It'll be fun.
 
2007-10-09 11:50:06 AM  
i just came here to tell subby that the "Guess which state" thing is far too easy if the state is identified by the tag.
 
2007-10-09 11:50:11 AM  
cal surfer: You obviously don't have any kids.

Actually I do. I remember when my daughter was two. She was jumping on the bed saying "f*ck, f*ck, f*ck..." while my wife was turning beet red.

It seems that the wife had dropped something heavy on her foot... and little kids are mimics.

/My kids know they're in real trouble if they hear my wife or I say "What the f*ck are you doing?"
 
2007-10-09 11:50:16 AM  
cal surfer: OlafTheBent: So I guess that whole "Freedom of speech" thing you guys constantly tout is total f*cking bullsh*t.

You obviously don't have any kids.

/Earmuffs


I do have a kid, a 10 year old in fact, and this weekend I was camping with him at an event, during which two guys with megaphones wandered around telling dirty jokes. I didn't like him hearing some of them so I moved him away when I could, but otherwise I chalked it up to the prickly glories of free speech.
 
2007-10-09 11:50:24 AM  
"being in a public place in a state of nudity or in a dress not belonging to such person's sex."

That means all you Farkettes better put on a dress of skirt before you go outside.

And fix me a sammich before you go.
 
2007-10-09 11:52:17 AM  
HAL_9000: i just came here to tell subby that the "Guess which state" thing is far too easy if the state is identified by the tag.

Blame the Modmins.

/submitter
 
2007-10-09 11:52:45 AM  
Fellows: Children, blah, freedom, blah, responsibility, blah ...

I'm getting sick of this crap. I'm also getting sick of defending the rights of jackasses who make the rest of look like morans for trying to defend our freedoms by their actions.

Come on, sitting in a park drinking alcohol while yelling obscenities near minors? I may not like what you have to say, but I'll defend your right to say it - except I'm getting sick of always having to defend people like this against the neo-cons and nanny-staters.

All I'll say here is yes he was wrong, yes he should have thought about his actions beforehand but no, you can't start legislating morality like this. Given the choice between taking my children to a park where adults might be screaming obscenities or a park where people's speech is monitored and governed by morality police, I'd rather deal with the cussing.

I can explain four-letter words to my children far easier than I can explain why other people's morality controls what they have the freedom to say or not.


Agree totally.
 
2007-10-09 11:52:48 AM  
Fellows: I can think of a myriad of reasons as to how obscenities in a public area is protected speech, however.

Please, I'd like to see your "myriad" of reasons why screaming obscenities at a park is protected speech.

And what is the fundamental difference between screaming at a public park and screaming on a public street? Just because you think your sleep is more important than those people's enjoyment of the public park?

I'm sorry, your argument is just a simple narrowing of the same gray area. While this specific law may be questionable, legislating public decency, even when it comes to speech, is necessary to have an enjoyable quality of life.
 
2007-10-09 11:55:36 AM  
SARASOTA CAN GO F*CK ITSELF.

It's only a matter of time before this is struck down by a federal court.
 
2007-10-09 11:56:07 AM  
Its not what you say, but how you say it.

i203.photobucket.com
 
2007-10-09 11:56:44 AM  
Spider Rico There was a similar case in Michigan. A man fell out of his canoe during a camping trip, and swore up a blue streak. The tender eared people in the area called the police and the man was arrested under some arcane 18th century law.

I remember seeing this on one of those news shows. The guy was nearly in tears because he thought he was going to serve time. I never found out what happened to the guy.

I also remember the "re-enactment" of what he said. I think he dropped the f-bomb about 20 times. He probably deserved a beat down for it, but not all that other crap.
 
2007-10-09 11:58:35 AM  
eh, my city has a 50 dollar fine for cussing, that the police only enforce when a public place calls them for help removing an annoying customer who is being obnoxious.
 
2007-10-09 11:59:33 AM  
In my state, it's illegal to curse in public, too. It's a subsection of the law that makes it illegal to incite a riot.

The only reason I know this, is because down at the DMV they felt the need to post a huge warning sign about it. LOL

/doesn't live in FL
 
2007-10-09 12:02:20 PM  
I'd say no one here has kids....actually, most here sound like kids.
 
2007-10-09 12:03:03 PM  
Dear Lord, I cannot wait until I have to move there.

/Fark needs a sarcasm code
 
2007-10-09 12:03:09 PM  
MugzyBrown: Please, I'd like to see your "myriad" of reasons why screaming obscenities at a park is protected speech.

And what is the fundamental difference between screaming at a public park and screaming on a public street? Just because you think your sleep is more important than those people's enjoyment of the public park?

I'm sorry, your argument is just a simple narrowing of the same gray area. While this specific law may be questionable, legislating public decency, even when it comes to speech, is necessary to have an enjoyable quality of life.


Whose quality of life? Why does your definition of enjoyment trump mine? What if I like shouting obscenities in a public park?

Just because you get your little knickers in a bind every time you hear a four-letter word doesn't mean that I have to cater to your wanton desires and definition of what's considered decent.

Freedom of speech isn't all strawberries and puppies - you take the bad with the good.

And make the argument that certain four-letter words can always be considered indecent. A society's need to legislate public decency has far more to do with issues such as a public donkey show outside a daycare more than it does curtailing ambiguous four-letter words.

Your desire to think you're immune to obscenities offends me and interferes with my ability to have an enjoyable quality of life.
 
2007-10-09 12:03:11 PM  
lajimi: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The article is about local municipal codes; it has nothing to do with Congress making laws prohibiting freedom of speech, etc.
 
2007-10-09 12:10:12 PM  
Fellows: Your desire to think you're immune to obscenities offends me and interferes with my ability to have an enjoyable quality of life.

Once again, I ask you for your address for my 3am wakeup call.

You have to take the good with the bad, ya know.

I enjoy taking a walk and screaming obscenities at 3am, it's not my problem your sensitive sleep cycle can't handle it.
 
2007-10-09 12:12:01 PM  
Fellows: MugzyBrown: Be sure to give me your address. I'll be there at 3:00am, on the public sidewalk, yelling obscenities at the top of my lungs.

Just exercising my free speech.

Public park in the middle of the day vs outside a private residence at 3 a.m. - bit of a difference, wouldn't you say?

And if you can't see the fundamental difference here, there's no help for you.


So you are going to qualify the free speech? Public road at 3:00 am versus a public park. Okay then.

I think that the issue here is public drunkenness which caused him to swear, which was, of course inappropriate in front of anyone especially children. He was charged with that, and since the old law was still in effect and he violated it, why not charge him with that too.

/I think morality laws are silly.
 
2007-10-09 12:13:47 PM  
Mr. Tyrone Biggums

The cussing canoeist appealed his conviction and the statute was ruled unconstitutional because it was impermissibly vague.

The statute at issue: "Any person who shall use any indecent, immoral, obscene, vulgar or insulting language in the presence or hearing of any woman or child shall be guilty of a misdemeanor."

Perhaps you can see how that language could be used against, oh, I don't know, anybody and everybody? The rationale really is to keep laws off of the books that (1) fail to provide reasonable warning as to what language is off limits, (2) allow for arbitrary or discriminatory enforcement, and (3) are overbroad and limit First Amendmet freedom. The Michigan law managed to accomplish all of that. Hurrah!!!
 
2007-10-09 12:15:06 PM  
SH*T FAG
 
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