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(Guardian)   Jesuslanders and Libtardians holding second secessionist convention. The loser gets Florida   ( guardian.co.uk) divider line
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10892 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Oct 2007 at 2:26 PM (9 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-10-03 11:26:52 AM  
Does this mean that, if Florida secedes, I no longer have to support that war in Iraq?

I'm feeling oddly confused about this.
 
2007-10-03 11:32:33 AM  
`It doesn't matter if our next president is Condoleeza (Rice) or Hillary (Clinton), it is going to be grim,'' said Naylor,

Sexist.

/Flame on
 
2007-10-03 11:33:57 AM  
It's so nice to see political rivals united by a common hatred of the federal government.

/no, really
 
2007-10-03 11:48:18 AM  
This will end well...
 
2007-10-03 12:19:58 PM  
So, which is "inevitable:"

A) The North American Union where Canada, the U.S. and Mexico are all one "supergroup," except without that flamer from Styx on vocals?

B) The Balkanized America with the sovereign nations of New England, Pennsyltuckinia, NASCARovia, Northern California, Southern California, The People's Republic of Corn, Humidia and Rocky Mountain Way?
 
2007-10-03 12:47:01 PM  
I may not be the world's biggest history buff, but if I can remember all the way back to my fifth-grade American history class correctly, I think we fought a pretty big war over whether states can secede. Turns out, the answer is no.
 
2007-10-03 12:55:12 PM  
I have two things to say:
1) Someone better check the supply stock pile at Fort Sumter.
2) You boys in the south like the skyline of Atlanta don't you? It'd be a shame if there was a fire.
 
2007-10-03 12:56:44 PM  
FTFA
But Naylor, a retired Duke University professor, said the League of the South shares his group's opposition to the federal government and the need to pursue secession.

I knew there was a reason this idea sucked.
 
2007-10-03 01:02:07 PM  
Oh yeah:

Jesuslanders and Libtardians holding second secessionist convention. The loser looser gets Florida

/rtfy
//sorry, pet peeve
///obligatory
 
2007-10-03 01:13:22 PM  
Free California!

What does the federal government do for us? I mean other than take all our money, terrorize our cancer patients, and violate California's laws? If you're a Blue Californian, wouldn't you like to see more social services that Californians want? An end to the War on Drugs? A rejection of federal sentencing guidelines? If you're a Red Californian, wouldn't you like to see lower taxes and less government interference in your daily life? Wouldn't you like to see Californians have more direct power over the future of California? An independent armed service with one objective and one objective only - defending California?

No matter what your political persuasion, there's no denying - a California free of the Washington, DC tyranny would be a California of, by, and for Californians. Let us chart our own destiny.
 
2007-10-03 01:14:50 PM  
bitteroldman
I don't think most modern Southerners would oppose the burning of Atlanta at this point.
 
2007-10-03 01:45:42 PM  
MasterThief: I may not be the world's biggest history buff, but if I can remember all the way back to my fifth-grade American history class correctly, I think we fought a pretty big war over whether states can secede. Turns out, the answer is no.

I think they somehow expect that the Feds won't put up a fuss over another secession.

I would love to show them otherwise.
 
2007-10-03 01:58:51 PM  
czarangelus: If you're a Blue Californian, wouldn't you like to see more social services that Californians want?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH!

Yea, like those "blue" Berkley'ers trying to shut down this guy, a captain of a non-profit, ex-con and reformed druggie employing computer recycling business that gives out refurbished computers to the needy? They save tons of usable computer components from the landfil. Why are they getting shut down? Because he's dealing with "toxic" materials (acid in the batteries) and the city all of a sudden doesn't want him around. It might prove a fire hazard, and all those computers are toxic. You know, totally not like the 40 or more server farms in the city that AREN'T filled with computers. The city decided dumping the toxic materials in the landfill was a better idea, and ordered him to destroy his inventory.

Oh, or your brilliant bottle-return scheme that even Michigan-landers can get right? You know, the one where you pay a deposit you don't actually get back?

Sacramento is more tyrannical than DC, and just about as "blue" and "green" on any given day. Get the fark out of our country and take your ballot-farking electoral votes with you.
 
2007-10-03 02:01:24 PM  
palladiate: Yea, like those "blue" Berkley'ers trying to shut down this guy, a captain of a non-profit, ex-con and reformed druggie employing computer recycling business that gives out refurbished computers to the needy?

Can you find a link that isn't to Bill O'Reilly? That man creams his pants over any excuse to demonize California, California culture, and idiosynchratic California communities.

Get the fark out of our country and take your ballot-farking electoral votes with you.

Well, that's what I'm hoping for, yes?

absoluteparanoia: I think they somehow expect that the Feds won't put up a fuss over another secession.

I would love to show them otherwise.


We've all seen in Iraq how good the Federal Government is at occupying territories that don't wish to be occupied.
 
2007-10-03 02:07:37 PM  
Wouldn't florida collapse financially if they left the union? I mean isn't florida a retirement community anyway?

wink wink nudge nudge
 
2007-10-03 02:09:00 PM  
absoluteparanoia: I think they somehow expect that the Feds won't put up a fuss over another secession.

I would love to show them otherwise.


I can envision it now:

Jesulibtards: "We're seceding!"
U.S. Gov't: "Sorry, no. We're not going to let you."
Jesulibtards: "Oh yeah? You and what army?"
U.S. Gov't: "This one."

But I don't think it will ever come to that. One of the most unsung changes that the Civil War brought is in the way Americans perceive ourselves and our relationship to the nation as a whole. In Ken Burns' documentary, one of the historians pointed out that before the Civil War, Americans generally said "The United States ARE," but afterwards we said "The United States IS." Before the Civil War, most Americans felt higher loyalty to their state. (For example, the only reason that Robert E. Lee resigned to lead the Confederate Army is because he felt more loyalty to Virginia than to the United States. Had he stayed, he was considered such a capable general that Lincoln would have probably offered him command of the Union Army, and the Civil War would have been over in a matter of months, not years.) But afterwards their higher loyalty was to the nation. The Civil War was the final step that truly transformed the U.S. from a group of states into a unified nation in the hearts and minds of its people. The price which had been paid to preserve the union was too high to not hold Union in high value.

We largely continue to see ourselves as Americans first, and Virginians or New Yorkers or Californians or residents of any other states a distant second. And that's true even in the South, in the states which seceded and which suffered the worst because of the Civil War. I've always found it interesting that even after the Civil War, southerners continue to make up a disproportionate share of the U.S. military.

No doubt the U.S. Army (and Marines and Navy and Air Force) could prevent any future attempt at secession, and there's no doubt that any president facing attempted secession would use the military to put it down. But the U.S. will never have to, because we Americans no longer feel the kind of loyalty to states which made secession possible in 1861. We no longer think of states in those kinds of terms.
 
2007-10-03 02:28:45 PM  
This might not be a bad thing.
 
2007-10-03 02:29:36 PM  
i41.photobucket.com
 
2007-10-03 02:29:46 PM  
Mr. Coffee Nerves: B) The Balkanized America with the sovereign nations of New England, Pennsyltuckinia, NASCARovia, Northern California, Southern California, The People's Republic of Corn, Humidia and Rocky Mountain Way?

I like that. Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho and Montana. The rest of you can go fark yourselves.
 
2007-10-03 02:30:47 PM  
submitter: convention. The loser looser gets Florida

FTFY,

Sorry, Pit peeve
 
2007-10-03 02:30:56 PM  
My headline was better:

Vermont wants to secede from the US. Don't let Maine hit you in the ass on the way out.
 
2007-10-03 02:31:56 PM  
We call the heartland
Not very smart land
IQ's are very low but threat levels are high

They got a mandate
They don't want man-dates
They got so many hates and people to despise

In the dust bowl
Cerebral black hole
The average weight is well over 200 pounds

I hate to generalize
But have you seen the thighs
Most haven't seen their genitalia in a while

/NOFX- "Leaving Jesusland"
 
2007-10-03 02:32:24 PM  
I know Lee and Grant are rolling in their graves about right now.
Does this mean we can get our slaves back?

/oh no I di'int
//oh yes I did
 
2007-10-03 02:32:38 PM  
Mr. Coffee Nerves: A) The North American Union where Canada, the U.S. and Mexico are all one "supergroup," except without that flamer from Styx on vocals?

This will come first. Then the war will separate them at some point after we are dead.
 
2007-10-03 02:32:41 PM  
Meh. Just return to the Articles of Confederation days.
 
2007-10-03 02:33:08 PM  
bitteroldman: I have two things to say:

2) You boys in the south like the skyline of Atlanta don't you? It'd be a shame if there was a fire.


At least we could fix the transportation system then.
 
2007-10-03 02:33:23 PM  
carrion_luggage: My headline was better:

Vermont wants to secede from the US. Don't let Maine hit you in the ass on the way out.


No it wasn't.
 
2007-10-03 02:33:48 PM  
No doubt the U.S. Army (and Marines and Navy and Air Force) could prevent any future attempt at secession, and there's no doubt that any president facing attempted secession would use the military to put it down.

DC should secede since they can't vote. Now THAT would be awesome.
 
2007-10-03 02:34:48 PM  
I wonder if the newly seceded Southern states would still expect the big subsidies from the USA?
 
2007-10-03 02:36:09 PM  
MasterThief: I may not be the world's biggest history buff, but if I can remember all the way back to my fifth-grade American history class correctly, I think we fought a pretty big war over whether states can secede. Turns out, the answer is no.

As human beings, we have a right to self-determination. So, the answer is yes.
 
2007-10-03 02:36:28 PM  
czarangelus 2007-10-03 01:13:22 PM
Free California!

What does the federal government do for us? I mean other than take all our money, terrorize our cancer patients, and violate California's laws? If you're a Blue Californian, wouldn't you like to see more social services that Californians want? An end to the War on Drugs? A rejection of federal sentencing guidelines? If you're a Red Californian, wouldn't you like to see lower taxes and less government interference in your daily life? Wouldn't you like to see Californians have more direct power over the future of California? An independent armed service with one objective and one objective only - defending California?

No matter what your political persuasion, there's no denying - a California free of the Washington, DC tyranny would be a California of, by, and for Californians. Let us chart our own destiny.


I kinda like this idea, but it will never happen. As much as the right wing likes to use us as whipping boys in the culture wars, we're the 5th biggest economy in the world, and we help pay for the trailer-park welfare addicts in the flyover states, so there's no way they're letting us go.

Plus, I like the idea of annoying retarded hillbillies like palladiate.
 
2007-10-03 02:37:08 PM  
I suppost Texas leaving the union only if Austin can leave Texas.

Seriously, this city is nothing like the rest of the state. It's almost bizare that its the capitol.
 
2007-10-03 02:37:10 PM  
Free Cascadia!
 
2007-10-03 02:37:11 PM  
Mr. Coffee Nerves: The People's Republic of Corn,

That doesn't sound so bad...But I agree the Civil War pretty much settled this issue.
 
2007-10-03 02:37:25 PM  
The U.S. Constitution does not explicitly prohibit secession, but few people think it is politically viable.

Ah, no. The constitution:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union

The "Union" is defined under the Articles of Confederation -- which was supplanted.

Signatories knew damn well what they were getting into. There is no right to secede.

Article XIII And the Articles of this Confederation shall be inviolably observed by every State, and the Union shall be perpetual.

And that the Articles thereof shall be inviolably observed by the States we respectively represent, and that the Union shall be perpetual.

Perpetual Union (new window) is all over that document.
 
2007-10-03 02:37:38 PM  
I'd vote for the Cascadia bio-region

(I think its was Washington, Oregon, a bit of NoCal and maybe a sliver of Idaho)
 
2007-10-03 02:37:42 PM  
Asshats unite!
 
2007-10-03 02:37:44 PM  
Mr. Coffee Nerves: So, which is "inevitable:"

A) The North American Union where Canada, the U.S. and Mexico are all one "supergroup," except without that flamer from Styx on vocals?

B) The Balkanized America with the sovereign nations of New England, Pennsyltuckinia, NASCARovia, Northern California, Southern California, The People's Republic of Corn, Humidia and Rocky Mountain Way?


i'd prefer B, especially because you named one the people's republic of corn.

this type of thing seems like a good idea to dissenters because our federal government has gotten too large. there are some things that it is just not feasible to legislate on that large of a scale, because the support for it will not be as universal as its application.

scale down the federal government, let people legislate on local and state levels, and you won't hear about things like this.
 
2007-10-03 02:37:47 PM  
MasterThief: I may not be the world's biggest history buff, but if I can remember all the way back to my fifth-grade American history class correctly, I think we fought a pretty big war over whether states can secede. Turns out, the answer is no.

Actually the answer is yes they can secede; however, there are consequences for doing so.

czarangelus: Free California!

No matter what your political persuasion, there's no denying - a California free of the Washington, DC tyranny would be a California of, by, and for Californians. Let us chart our own destiny.


I see someone's been watching The Mask of Zorro again.
 
2007-10-03 02:37:54 PM  
mmm... pancake: As human beings, we have a right to self-determination. So, the answer is yes.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
 
2007-10-03 02:38:17 PM  
TFA: Harry Watson, director of the Center For the Study of the American South and a history professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, said it was a surprise to see The Middlebury Institute conferring with the League of the South, ``an organization that's associated with a cause that many of us associate with the preservation of slavery.''

Which highlights exactly why she should not be a history professor at any certified institution. She "associates" things because it's either politically convenient, or because somebody told her to, not because of historical fact. The idea that she's in a position to pass that line of thinking on to people who pay to be taught in an objective and truthful manner is reprehensible.
 
2007-10-03 02:38:54 PM  
Mr. Coffee Nerves: So, which is "inevitable:"

The Balkanized America with the sovereign nations of New England, Pennsyltuckinia, NASCARovia, Northern California, Southern California, The People's Republic of Corn, Humidia and Rocky Mountain Way?


I unfortunetly think that Maryland would be crushed by the evil forces of Pennsyltuckinia.
 
2007-10-03 02:39:29 PM  
Heh. Blue states could never secede because they don't like guns enough. Red states might be able to do it because their people embrace the gun culture more strongly.

/The Southern soldiers were better than the Northern ones. They were just way too outnumbered to make it work.
 
2007-10-03 02:39:31 PM  
bitteroldman: I have two things to say:
1) Someone better check the supply stock pile at Fort Sumter.
2) You boys in the south like the skyline of Atlanta don't you? It'd be a shame if there was a fire.


Atlanta is all Yankees and Messicans that got lost and couldn't find their way back home. I'm sure someone down here has a lighter you could borrow.
 
2007-10-03 02:39:33 PM  
DarnoKonrad: The U.S. Constitution does not explicitly prohibit secession, but few people think it is politically viable.

Ah, no. The constitution:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union

The "Union" is defined under the Articles of Confederation -- which was supplanted.

Signatories knew damn well what they were getting into. There is no right to secede.

Article XIII And the Articles of this Confederation shall be inviolably observed by every State, and the Union shall be perpetual.

And that the Articles thereof shall be inviolably observed by the States we respectively represent, and that the Union shall be perpetual.

Perpetual Union (new window) is all over that document.


That's all well and good, but when one party (the federal government) breaches said contract (the Constitution), the whole document kind of ceases to carry much weight.
 
2007-10-03 02:40:00 PM  
The other Libtardians also want to secede : Libertarian group chooses NH
 
2007-10-03 02:40:10 PM  
czarangelus: We've all seen in Iraq how good the Federal Government is at occupying territories that don't wish to be occupied.

Dude, this is the weakest troll I've ever seen. Iraqi civil war and American civil war are completely different animals form the perspective of the U.S.
 
2007-10-03 02:40:38 PM  
siromega: Mr. Coffee Nerves: B) The Balkanized America with the sovereign nations of New England, Pennsyltuckinia, NASCARovia, Northern California, Southern California, The People's Republic of Corn, Humidia and Rocky Mountain Way?

I like that. Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho and Montana. The rest of you can go fark yourselves.


throw Oregon and Washington in the mix and you got yourself a pretty bad assed nation state right there....
 
2007-10-03 02:40:56 PM  
They tried this once and the outcome was not favorable to them.

Secession conventions are a yearly event in Texas.
 
2007-10-03 02:41:40 PM  
czarangelus
I agree with you, but as a Coloradan, We control a little hitch for you guys, water. The Colorado River provides it to you guys. You'll either need to take us with you, or dry up like a saharan whores vagoo.
 
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