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(NBC 10)   Federal judge suddenly realizes that drug laws are designed to punish black men   (nbc10.com ) divider line
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18082 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Oct 2007 at 8:57 AM (9 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-10-02 10:52:27 AM  
HotWingConspiracy:
Ugh. It's still coke, it's just a different delivery method. The effects really aren't all that different from the powder form. Again, massive studies have been done about this. Most people choose to believe the drug czar's take on it for some reason that I'll never understand.



Then why did murder rates double in places where its use was wide spread? Even if it physically was no different than cocaine it did have a measurably different effect on the neighborhoods it was used in. I think not having stronger sentences for it would be racist because without those long jail terms you would have more people dealing/using it.
http://www.chicagogsb.edu/capideas/apr06/5.aspx
 
2007-10-02 10:56:15 AM  
Can/has anyone shown that white crack dealers get less time?
 
2007-10-02 10:57:16 AM  
Faux News brief 2 weeks ago:
"It looks like the new tough Arizona dui laws are working;
more and more illegal aliens now flocking back to Mexico.."
 
2007-10-02 10:57:27 AM  
I don't feel superior to Faison. I also don't feel so superior to blacks that I feel that I need to solve their problems for them, or make excuses for them, as hand-wringing liberals do. Maybe you could pat them on the head and feed them a cookie?

What I admire about Faison is his honesty about his life and why he did the things he did. No excuse making. He knows what he did was wrong, but he also did a lot of good with the money he made, like throwing huge parties where he bought presents for kids in the neighborhood--he also rented buses and took kids to Water World and State Fairs.
 
2007-10-02 10:57:39 AM  
hey, here is an idea....don't get caught.
 
2007-10-02 10:58:20 AM  
BobC: As long as people use drugs, and there is a ton of money to made off selling them, the phony "war on drugs" will never be won. In fact whole economies in certain port cities in Florida would probably collapse if the drug flow were cut off. I recall reading a book in the 80's by an ex DEA office who basically said that most of Miami runs off cocaine money. I believe him

It's base, animal nature to get high. Hell, the reindeer in Siberia eat Aminitas and drink each other's urine to keep it going. For as long as people exist there will be an urge to get high and unfortunately there will always be people in power that will use the arm of the law to crack down on that behavior.

I wish we as a society recognized if you're going to even entertain the thought of property rights that it starts with what someone does with their own body.

/rant off
 
2007-10-02 11:00:00 AM  
Tyee: Can/has anyone shown that white crack dealers get less time?

Hear that WHOOSH sound?

Yeah. That was the point flying over your head.

The more relevent question is how do crack laws compare with meth laws.
 
2007-10-02 11:00:07 AM  
I agree, Beer. Just the fact that our prisons are filled with people booked on marijuana charges is criminal, in my opinion.
 
2007-10-02 11:00:47 AM  
walnuts55: It would be cheaper to give them the drugs very pure and let them OD use right or die

Drugs of unknown purity cause overdoses. If you gave them drugs of a known purity, they'd know exactly how much they need to take every time instead of guessing like they do now. That would reduce overdoses, not increase them.
 
2007-10-02 11:02:43 AM  
oldcub: Federal judge suddenly realizes that drug laws are designed to punish black men Golf War veterans

ftfy

The GOLFwar....Didn't Tiger Woods win that?


 
2007-10-02 11:03:09 AM  
This war on drugs is great. We need lots of people in prisons so we can get lots of funding for prisons and police so we can keep the criminals we created by pursuing the war on drugs off the streets which are safer because of the more police and prisons.
 
2007-10-02 11:04:14 AM  
liam76: HotWingConspiracy:
Ugh. It's still coke, it's just a different delivery method. The effects really aren't all that different from the powder form. Again, massive studies have been done about this. Most people choose to believe the drug czar's take on it for some reason that I'll never understand.


Then why did murder rates double in places where its use was wide spread? Even if it physically was no different than cocaine it did have a measurably different effect on the neighborhoods it was used in. I think not having stronger sentences for it would be racist because without those long jail terms you would have more people dealing/using it.
http://www.chicagogsb.edu/capideas/apr06/5.aspx


Because of how addictive it is and in poor areas the money to feed a habit is hard to come up with.
Powder was more for the (us) people that can pay to play.
The war on drugs caused this there was a time when weed was the drug of choice in the enter city but with spraing in Mexico and crack down on weed Crack became cheaper and more plentiful and took over as the main drug.
If you stop one thing people will find something new. Have sence the start of time .
People will get off someway bottomline .
So do-gooder get out of the way and lets tax it and get out of peoples lives.
 
2007-10-02 11:05:36 AM  
belome: Wow, I was too lazy to read the article... but this has to be the most racist headline ever on fark.

wow an ignorant farker...who'da thunk it?
 
2007-10-02 11:06:00 AM  
walnuts55: lets tax it and get out of peoples lives.

If I was a cliche driven poster, I would say THIS right now.
 
2007-10-02 11:06:24 AM  
I was trying to bring attention to the fact that the black caucus saw that crack was becoming a problem in inner cities and were trying to keep it out by making the sentences for crack more severe that just cocaine.

NOW everyone is screaming racism. I think the word racism is being destroyed by using it constantly as a cop-out. When real racism is seen, it is complete muted by all this nonsense!
 
2007-10-02 11:07:09 AM  
Wake up call to the Mainstream Media:

All drug prohibition laws are rooted in anti-immigrant, anti-minority activism in the early 1900's, and the perceived dangers of drugs, not the realistic dangers.

Opium was associated with Chinese, Marijuana with Mexicans, and Cocaine with African Americans, and the Christian Reformers who had finally usurped power, set out to continue the race war by focusing on the lifestyle of the minority non-Chrsitian male, rather than his skin color. All euphoric drugs were associated with hedonistic lifestyles, and the criminalization of drugs simply catalysed that assumption, and the reality of it.
 
2007-10-02 11:07:37 AM  
FTA:companion case from Iowa also involves a judge's discretion to impose a more lenient sentence in a drug case, although Brian Gall pleaded guilty to conspiracy to distribute ecstasy.

What are they going to charge him with next? Giving away happy smiles and soaring rainbows?
 
2007-10-02 11:07:46 AM  
I enjoy the advantage of disproportionate sentencing...

So I'm really getting a kick out of these replies.
 
2007-10-02 11:08:22 AM  
PerpetualMotion: I was trying to bring attention to the fact that the black caucus saw that crack was becoming a problem in inner cities and were trying to keep it out by making the sentences for crack more severe that just cocaine.

NOW everyone is screaming racism.


Perhaps because the situation you just described is, in fact, racist.
 
2007-10-02 11:08:49 AM  
All of the instances of murder so far in "Game Over" revolve around disputes over drug territory, snitching about drug dealing, and people getting shot over jealousy over material possessions. It has nothing to do with being poor or anything else.
 
2007-10-02 11:08:59 AM  
Petulant Dwarf: anti-immigrant

Wrong:
Not anti-immigrant just anti- nonwhite
 
2007-10-02 11:09:45 AM  
DROxINxTHExWIND: The more relevent question is how do crack laws compare with meth laws.

Apples and oranges.

I'm a white guy who has in the distant past done consumed both powder and crack. My experience tells me crack is the more dangerous of the two life wasters.
I also have limited experience w/ meth, didn't like it. That having been said and apple and oranges aside meth dealers should be treated to harsh and long time also, regardless of what color they are.
Like I said before, if you are aware of the jail times associated with the drugs you deal, and you know they are, then you are making the choice on how much time you will serve.
 
2007-10-02 11:09:48 AM  
for good or for awesome: 100 to 1 difference in jail time.

That's not what the article said.
 
2007-10-02 11:10:16 AM  
Petulant Dwarf: Wake up call to the Mainstream Media:

All drug prohibition laws are rooted in anti-immigrant, anti-minority activism in the early 1900's, and the perceived dangers of drugs, not the realistic dangers.

Opium was associated with Chinese, Marijuana with Mexicans, and Cocaine with African Americans, and the Christian Reformers who had finally usurped power, set out to continue the race war by focusing on the lifestyle of the minority non-Chrsitian male, rather than his skin color. All euphoric drugs were associated with hedonistic lifestyles, and the criminalization of drugs simply catalysed that assumption, and the reality of it.


Stop bringing history and fact into this. How are we supposed to keep flinging poo at each other with this information available for all to see?
 
2007-10-02 11:11:08 AM  
PerpetualMotion: NOW everyone is screaming racism. I think the word racism is being destroyed by using it constantly as a cop-out. When real racism is seen, it is complete muted by all this nonsense!

No, this is real racism. And what do you mean by 'NOW'? It's been pretty well accepted in most political circles that crack sentencing has been an awful blight on the black community for over a decade now -- and that drug laws are disproportionately enforced against black communities in general for over 50 years.

Where've you been?
 
2007-10-02 11:11:22 AM  
mellomo: TrainingWheelsNeeded: I don't think anyone is saying there shouldn't be consequences but that those consequences should be equal.

Huh? They are equal... Whites don't get a lighter sentence for crack than blacks do. The article is saying that crack is black drug and cocaine is a white drug and crack has a harsher sentence than cocaine and is therefore that law is somehow racist. The consequences are equal no matter if its Whitney or Whitey smoking the shiat or selling it. Crack is harder drug than cocaine since it is more potent.


Cocaine is just as harmful as crack - the punishment isn't that's what I was saying is unequal. Either raise the sentencing guidelines of cocaine or reduce the federal guidelines of crack. I don't understand how the same amount of the same drug can get one person 1 year in jail and another 10 years.
 
2007-10-02 11:12:08 AM  
BobC: Ahhhh I see the cliches are already flying!

If you want to know all about black cocaine dealing--I would strongly recommend ignoring the hand-wringing white liberal cliches and instead go down to your local bookstore and purchase "Game Over" by Azie Faison. Faison is an infamous Harlem drug kingpin from the 80's and 90's, and this book is all about the drug culture that has exploded in the "inner cities."

Faison is quite clear--cocaine and heroin money absolutely supports large segments of the black community. Getting an education and getting a real job is for chumps. He talks about one guy who was so good at basketball that he beat one of the Lakers one on one and he was offered a contract with the Lakers--but he turned it down because he could make fives times that amount selling heroin. It is that simple.

There are good men in the ghetto who work hard for a living and Faison talks about them. He talks about an old man who owned a restaurant on his block in Harlem. This old guy kept shooing drug dealers away from in front of his business but they kept coming back so eventually he called the police. The dealers took off--but came back a few nights later and shot the old man dead.

You guys want to know about drugs and black males, well read about it from somebody who lived that life. The CIA brings in cocaine? HAH! Read this book--not one white face to be seen! ALL the drug suppliers are black. I realize that white people like to feel like they control everything and everybody, but this is a parallel culture that has ZERO to do with whites. In fact, the only whites ever mentioned are from movies--"Scarface" and "The Godfather" are mentioned as being THE inspiration for early drug runners getting into "the game." Azie and his boys idolized these movies and wanted the easy big money.


of becasue we all know one man's personal account speaks for a whole culture or race. you sir are a dumbass. haha.
 
2007-10-02 11:12:49 AM  
Perpetual--there are lots of blacks wanting this crack problem the hell out of their neighborhoods but the epidemic is so huge that there is no stopping it. I have to say that if I could make $40k a month dealing drugs, I'd be tempted. And if I came from a culture where dealing drugs had become accepted, maybe I'd have done it. But I don't!
 
2007-10-02 11:12:57 AM  
It isn't that drug laws are racist, the system, stem to stern, is racist. The white kids get pre-trial intervention and reduced charges more often because their parents can afford "the" lawyer who can deliver. The poor family is left with a PD who has 1/4 the budget of the prosecutors and twice the cases.

Sure you could argue that this is an economic disparity but I say that's really a chicken-egg argument. I think the criminal justice system is part of the machine to keep blacks, Mexicans (and some whites) poor.

But this isn't entirely a racial problem. This country is founded on class seperation and racial seperation. It can be hard to distinguish the two.
 
2007-10-02 11:13:16 AM  
MWeather: Perhaps because the situation you just described is, in fact, racist.
It is astounding that this realization escapes people.

Here, let me simplify it:

Whites and rich people do a drug called cocaine. While it is illegal, it is often not enforced, and when it is the penalties are light.

P.O.C. do a drug called crack. They are arrested constantly for doing and dealing this drug, and the penalties are much stiffer than cocaine. They are sent to prison and have their lives destroyed for touching even a small amount. Why? Well, its right there in black and white...
 
2007-10-02 11:13:43 AM  
Could it possibly be that this is a cultural phenomenon, and not a result of a racially biased legal system?

Oh, of course not. Can't make political capital out of that.
 
2007-10-02 11:15:28 AM  
if crack laws are racist why don't black people just use cocaine then?
 
2007-10-02 11:15:40 AM  
newmatic: The overwhelming majority of cocaine users in general are white. The overwhelming majority of crack cocaine users are black. The mandatory minimums are racist.

Is there a reason why black folks haven't wised up and switched to powder? Is the cost differential THAT great?

/not trolling, really don't know coke prices
 
2007-10-02 11:15:42 AM  
BobC: And if I came from a culture where dealing drugs had become accepted, maybe I'd have done it. But I don't!

Perhaps if you had come from a culture where the color of your skin dictates that you receive a substandard education and limited your employment opportunities, you might have another point of view.
 
2007-10-02 11:17:18 AM  
OK So I was mainly being snarky because I am sick of lurking and having to be subjected to Whoopty Whoo The Precious Bongo Boy's idiocy (racism), however:

Watch any sitcom or TV commercial and tell me who the stupid one who cant figure out the simplest of things is.

Hint: Its not a black person or a woman.

The white man is somehow the only person it is acceptable to poke fun at anymore.

Also I resent the term "white". I mean what a crock of shiat. Whoopty Woo would have me paying reparations. My great great grandfather came over on a boat and married an American Indian and started a farm.

You can't lump "white people" in America all together. There are privileged people and unprivileged people. The unprivileged people have to suck at the corporate teat and acknowledge they can't put their do rag on and get platinum grills if they want to be taken seriously. I had to cut my long hippie hair from my younger years to get a job. I wasn't going to starve me and my family to make a fashion statement. Also speaking English is a desirable trait in an employee. Capitalism runs this country not racism.

I don't deny the existence of racism. But people like Whoopty perpetuate racism by crying wolf so many times that when the wolf is really there I couldn't give a shiat less.

If you are saddened by the state of the black community, confront Jay-Z and the newest ghetto Hero Michael Vick. Confront Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton for picking BAD PEOPLE to hold up as role models. Acknowledge when one of your own does something reprehensible and hold them accountable. Because until the black community does this I can't take any cries of racism seriously enough to be motivated to care.

Every person has their own set of personal obstacles they must overcome. Being a victim your whole life is a choice you have obviously made.

It seems to me that any Black person that comes along that is actually worthy of being held up as a role model in the black community they are instantly dubbed "too white".

Colin Powell, Barack Obama, Condolezza Rice...

PS Lick my balls
 
2007-10-02 11:17:34 AM  
Manc--why not take a reading comprehension course? I never said he spoke for any race or culture, other than the underground black drug culture. I know your little liberal mind is awhirl because I am pointing out the realities of that culture from someone who would know. I'm sure you're just having a hand-wringing nervous breakdown, which is why you have to lash out and name call.
 
2007-10-02 11:18:27 AM  
walnuts55:
Because of how addictive it is and in poor areas the money to feed a habit is hard to come up with.
Powder was more for the (us) people that can pay to play.
The war on drugs caused this there was a time when weed was the drug of choice in the enter city but with spraing in Mexico and crack down on weed Crack became cheaper and more plentiful and took over as the main drug.
If you stop one thing people will find something new. Have sence the start of time .
People will get off someway bottomline .
So do-gooder get out of the way and lets tax it and get out of peoples lives.


If it is more addictive and cheaper doesn't that make it more dangerous? Doen't that mean that higher sentences make sense? If we were to tax it, wouldn't people be complaining that we are poisoning black people with crack since they are more likely to do it?
 
2007-10-02 11:19:36 AM  
feeble: The white man is somehow the only person it is acceptable to poke fun at anymore.

LOL! Sorry, Soapbox Charley, but as a white man I can say the benefits I get just from being white are well worth some humor at my expense on a tv commercial.

Tell you what, you get to pick: Have a commercial make you look silly...OR get dragged behind a truck in chains until your head pops off and rolls into a ditch.

You pick...I bet I know which one you prefer...
 
2007-10-02 11:21:04 AM  
PerpetualMotion: I was trying to bring attention to the fact that the black caucus saw that crack was becoming a problem in inner cities and were trying to keep it out by making the sentences for crack more severe that just cocaine.

NOW everyone is screaming racism. I think the word racism is being destroyed by using it constantly as a cop-out. When real racism is seen, it is complete muted by all this nonsense!

======================================================


??? Do you understand the the Black Caucus is not "black people"? Why the fark can't seemingly intelligent people understand that there is no specific group that speaks for ME. Applying your idiotic logic to another case, since the GOP supports the "War on Drugs" then all white people who ingest them are hypocrites. Who the fark is the white spokesperson?

A policy is not automatically inclusive because a group black people supports it.

Some black people DO support policies and organizations that do not work in the best interest of ALL black people.

/See: Clarence Thomas, Condaleeza Rice, Colin Powell
 
2007-10-02 11:21:47 AM  
Tyee: I'm a white guy who has in the distant past done consumed both powder and crack. My experience tells me crack is the more dangerous of the two life wasters.

So you never shot up? Crack is NOTHING compared to powder.
 
2007-10-02 11:22:17 AM  
feeble: Watch any sitcom or TV commercial and tell me who the stupid one who cant figure out the simplest of things is.

If you are saddened by the state of the black community, confront Jay-Z and the newest ghetto Hero Michael Vick. Confront Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton for picking BAD PEOPLE to hold up as role models.


Feeble -- C'mon, dude. Sitcoms? Commercials? Michael Vick? These things have nothing to do with the real state of racial injustice in this country. These are Things On Your TV, and you're letting your opinion be created based on what the talking heads tell you.

There are plenty of shocking numbers about how we patrol minority neighborhoods and the difference between poor and rich people in the justice system. People need to stop thinking that 'black culture', as seen on TV, has anything to do with the realities of life in America.
 
2007-10-02 11:22:49 AM  
They're not receiving harsher sentences because they're black, they're receiving harsher sentences because they're poor and stupid. At the other end of the spectrum you have wealthy suburban moms popping Zoloft and Prozac like they're M&M's, and chasing them down with a white wine spritzer - and it's all perfectly legal.

Looking for coherence in the government's drug policy is like looking for a nice country girl at a Rob Zombie concert - it ain't happening...
 
2007-10-02 11:22:53 AM  
Whoopty Whoo The Precious Bongo Boy: Perhaps if you had come from a culture where the color of your skin dictates that you receive a substandard education and limited your employment opportunities, you might have another point of view.

I knew it, you're Italian. Try being Irish, ass.
 
2007-10-02 11:22:53 AM  
Whoopty--thanks for the phony liberal cliche. How very thought-provoking and original.


Now here's reality for your pampered white libbie mind, try not to cry or have a nervous breakdown:The author of "Game Over" dropped out of school, voluntarily, because he saw that people with educations didn't make much more money than people without educations. He says that almost verbatim. He also says that the mentality in the ghetto is that education is for chumps.

White liberals. Living in make-believe.
 
2007-10-02 11:23:15 AM  
fireclown: newmatic: The overwhelming majority of cocaine users in general are white. The overwhelming majority of crack cocaine users are black. The mandatory minimums are racist.

Is there a reason why black folks haven't wised up and switched to powder? Is the cost differential THAT great?

/not trolling, really don't know coke prices


Don't know how much rock is but I have heard that powder is around $100.00 a Gram and if you don't live by the coast it will be step on so much it has nike prints on it.
 
2007-10-02 11:23:32 AM  
Assgasket: Could it possibly be that this is a cultural phenomenon, and not a result of a racially biased legal system?

Oh, of course not. Can't make political capital out of that.


It is just as much of a problem if a law has a disproportionate effect. That is where the problem lies with this. Myriad studies have shown that the 100:1 ratio causes minorities to get harsher sentences because crack is a "poor-man's" drug.

In fact, the United States Sentencing Commission, who issues the Sentencing Guidelines, have repeatedly asked Congress to lower the ratio to 20:1 and Congress has balked because they are afraid to seem light on crime.
 
2007-10-02 11:23:38 AM  
Mandatory minimums are a creature of the legislature. Fact is, the "tough on crime" voters still outnumber us quite a bit.
 
2007-10-02 11:24:27 AM  
Whoopty Whoo The Precious Bongo Boy: MWeather: Perhaps because the situation you just described is, in fact, racist.
It is astounding that this realization escapes people.

Here, let me simplify it:

Whites and rich people do a drug called cocaine. While it is illegal, it is often not enforced, and when it is the penalties are light.

P.O.C. do a drug called crack. They are arrested constantly for doing and dealing this drug, and the penalties are much stiffer than cocaine. They are sent to prison and have their lives destroyed for touching even a small amount. Why? Well, its right there in black and white...


Please don't take my comments a racist, but the average recreational user of cocaine that gets a slap on the wrist isn't likely to go "steal outta he own momma crib" to get the money to buy it. It's probably not based on race, but economic situation. Crack is more potentially destructive to society. Removing the freedom of someone who contributes nothing to society makes more sense from a logical point of view than someone who pays taxes and isn't leeching cradle to grave entitlements from the system. The same standards are applied to habitual Meth users who are more often "white".
 
2007-10-02 11:25:08 AM  
Are these laws "de facto" discriminatory in their application? The evidence seems to suggest it.

Are they "designed" that way? Probably not so much.
 
2007-10-02 11:25:40 AM  
Whoopty Whoo The Precious Bongo Boy: Tell you what, you get to pick: Have a commercial make you look silly...OR get dragged behind a truck in chains until your head pops off and rolls into a ditch.

How many black folks does that happen to, exactly? And least you think that whitey approves of these shenanigans, they put the man guilty of this to death. In Texas, the despised red state hotbed of racism.

From the wikki: **snip**John King - accused of beating Byrd with a bat and then dragging him behind a truck until he died. The testimony phase of his trial started in Jasper, Texas on February 16, 1999. He was found guilty of kidnapping and murder on February 23 and was sentenced to death on February 25.**snip**
 
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