They would be better off with custom Saiga-12's from here (new window).

Your Black Muslim Credit Union: In much of europe cops walk around with sub machine guns. I don't think it is a good idea.

But... but... gun control works so well that the cops in Europe shouldn't need guns!

/obvious

CoolHandLucas: I know the .45 ACP is a great stopper, but so is the .40SW. Glock and SIG make .45s the same size as issue 9mms, and many agencies issue the .40SW.

I don't know about the Sig Sauer offerings, but the Glock .45 ACP pistols (except the single-stack G36) have longer, thicker grips than the 9mm and .40 models. This creates problems for those with smaller hands.
As for stopping power, since my hands are big enough anyway, I like the 10mm Auto round. The .40 S&W was invented primarily because the FBI's 10mm pistols were considered too big, too powerful & hard to shoot.
Give me a Glock 29 and a spare mag any day... wait, never mind, I'm already carrying them.

And I own an AR to be able to defend my home in the event of another Katrina or LA Riot, or some such.

You are a pulled pork-inhaling, Skoal-dipping, Ford F150 POS-driving, Mullet-clad simpleton. I wish you all the displeasure your life of ignorance holds in store for you.

The mere assertion that an AR is the weapon of choice for domestic protection tells me you are exactly the idiot that will ruin it for the rest of us.

Thanks a million, Jed.

I use an 1861 colt .44 black powder pistol for home defense... Sure it takes 10 minutes to muzzle load it,

The Navy isn't a muzzle-loader, dude.

Molavian
You know, if the cops really wanted a man stopper, they'd issue one of the Marlin 1895 configurations with the 540 grain Garrett Hammerhead loads.

Of course, that wouldn't be tacticool enough for them.
-------------------------------------------------------------

True

1895GS with a hot load is pretty freaking intimidating on both ends. But then again they already have a tactical version in the form of a 3" rifled slug in a 870 pump.

Almost bought me a guide gun for $499 last year. Looked at the price last week and it was $620 at Wal-Mart. Should have jumped on it when I could.

danlpoon:
The mere assertion that an AR is the weapon of choice for domestic protection tells me you are exactly the idiot that will ruin it for the rest of us.

Thanks a million, Jed.

---------------------------------------

Uh...and this is worse than a hotheaded basement troll on Fark how!?!

Uh...and this is worse than a hotheaded basement troll on Fark how!?!

I'm not sure I follow.

Uh...and this is worse than a hotheaded basement troll on Fark how!?!


I mean it is what it is, I don't think I minced words one bit.

Tat'dGreaser: They should set up sniper teams and bait them with something. Oh wait, we already had this argument.

"Oh look, free crack"

BANG

You, sir, owe me a fresh beer and a new keyboard.

danlpoon: Uh...and this is worse than a hotheaded basement troll on Fark how!?!

I'm not sure I follow.

----------------------------------------------------

Just struck me as strange that the following opinion:
You are a pulled pork-inhaling, Skoal-dipping, Ford F150 POS-driving, Mullet-clad simpleton.

Is a superior mindset than that of BoobySnacks.

/You are probably correct, but fire + fire really doesn't do much than make more fire...

//Don't care much for .223 either.

Then again...boobiesnacks is a pretty lame handle.

farkING LEGALIZE THE DRUGS!!!!


Then we wouldn't have to be engaged in an arms war with our own citizens. People could kill themselves with drugs if they want to and we wouldn't have to have armed thugs (police included) on our streets. Easy.

Waiting to be deployed...

/Bonapart FTW!
//Puma sisters!
///We're mad.
////Slashies

Machine Gun:



NOT a Machine Gun:

Actually... I kinda thought that "BoobySnacks" was rather funny. I came up with it when my wife was nursing our first born. It was late at night and after having gotten up for the 3rd or 4th time to bring him in to bed so he could nurse, I said to him, "time for some more booby snacks huh?" Then again, it was about 0400 so I suspect I was rather punchy.

As for the other allegations... Hardly. I'm educated, fairly libertarian in my political views and cannot abide by the idea of a nanny-state. I'm also a nurse. I've seen the damage that firearm can be used to inflict on someone. I've seen some real tragedies - some truly heartbreaking tragedies. I've also seen that the preponderance of folks rolling into my ER with GSWs pretty much had them coming to them. Gang Bangers and other criminals are playing the odds and their lifestyles/pursuits are not conducive to dying of old age.

I believe that the Constitution and the BOR mean exactly what they say. "Shall not be infringed" means just that. Free citizens of the USA should have the unfettered right to keep and bear any kind of firearm they so choose.

I believe in personal accountability. An inanimate object of any design has no moral will or volition of its own. It takes a man or a woman to use something for good or evil ends. If you don't like the looks of the "Evil Black Rifle," fine. Don't get one. I can appreciate a well made wood-stocked precision bolt action rifle, etc. as well as the next person whose interests lie in that direction. However, I have chosen the AR platform for the reasons I explained earlier.

It really is beyond me as to how you would have a problem with keeping a rifle (one that has been designed to be light weight, easy to handle/maintain, and handle fairly crappy field conditions) for the purpose of home defense during a worst case scenario.

I'm not anywhere close to being of a mind to set up a compound in Montana and separate myself from the rest of society... stockpiling food and supplies while waiting for the world to come to a nuclear end. Sorry to disappoint you. What I am, though, is a responsible free citizen of the United States of America who has purchased a rifle that is fully in compliance with every law in the state in which I reside. I am responsible for the safety of my wife and two small children and I take that duty very seriously. Up until seven years ago, the prospect of a terrorist attack on domestic soil seemed to be a far fetched proposition. It isn't so beyond the realm of possibility now, now is it? The possibility is thankfully remote that it would occur wher e I live, but it is definitely there. The LA riots of '92 and the social meltdown of New Orleans when Katrina destroyed that city graphically illustrated that there can very definitely be a substantial period of time in which emergency services may not be able to attend to your area when you need them most - and there are those who would seek to take advantage of that. If you are not able to protect yourself, then you will fall prey to them and quite possibly die.

I'm not willing to base the safety of my family on the earnest hope that bad things don't happen to good people. It seems to me, danlpoon, that you suffer from the elitist, Zumbo mindset. Get over it. Fast. We either stand together or we will all fall separately. Because after they make my evil black rifle illegal, they'll be coming for your high powered sniper rifle - er... Hunting/sporting rifle. I most sincerely hope you snap out of this misconception under which you are operating. Supporters of the second amendment do not need to be divided in our loyalties.

And pulled pork rules!

Dancin_In_Anson: I got a chance to fire a museum piece a while back...We were having trouble with the mag seating right but once it did...


They call it the machine gun smile...

NICE!
BTW, why are you holding onto the mag?? Not kosher, y'know?

/jk, wish I was there. Love the Tommy!

If they weren't farking criminals they wouldn't have to worry about farking getting shot with one now would they? I say they should take out these criminals any way they can, and I'm sure the criminals are at least equally armed, and the world would be a better place. The cops are here to protect and serve- so let 'em farking protect us any way they can!

Hmmmm, UMP 45, sexsay. I might have to go join their police department. And special forces units have been using mp-5 submachine guns for quite awhile, and the m-16 automatic rifle is extremely common among police officers. I did a ride along with one for my government class, he had his 9mm pistol on him, a 12 guage shotgun up front with him, and in the trunk they had an m-16. I'm just glad they're going with a decent caliber on this, not the 9mm.

9mm is a much maligned caliber. Given recent advances in bullet design, it is in many respects as effective as a .45.

You do have to get the right ammo though. Your average 9mm is nothing anywhere nearly as effective as your average .45.

dagman: "Actually. An assault rifle is always fully automatic."

That's not right. The M16 is an assault rifles and it hasn't had a full-auto setting in decades. 3-round burst is the best you can do. Assault rifles are just a family tree of high-power, magazine-fed, shooters with long, skinny bullets. Automaticity has nothing to do with it.

The Tactical Guy
As I was leaving my house, I stuffed my Glock 10mm "man gun" Mexican style in my pants. My backup is a fully customized 1911 with all the IPSC add-on options in my $500.00 leather pancake holster custom made by Belgian Monks who have devoted their lives to silence and holster making. These are the ones used by SEAL Team 6, which I used to be a part of, but all records of my activities were destroyed in a fire "accident".

I put on my Royal Robbins photographer vest to match my pants while wearing a T-shirt underneath reading "From My Cold Dead Hands". That way, nobody can see what I'm packing.

I had my Centennial .38 Special in my ankle holster, just like the gun rag guys carry. Lastly, I had my "Covert Sniper" I.D. Card in my wallet with my "Concealed Weapons Permit Badge". I was ready for anything.

I drove my Bug Out Truck to the 7-11 for some beer, 'cause you never know. It is a performance styled Subaru BRAT with 4 cylinders of ground pounding fury.

I pulled up to the 7-11 store and noticed a nefarious looking Girl Scout eyeballing me from the back of her mothers' SUV. A likely cover.

The mother returned to the truck and went for the keys in her purse, but I knew from my years of combat honed instincts that she was actually making a furtive movement for an offensive weapon.

I attempted a tactical shoulder roll, but fell flat on my face, kind of flopping on the pavement to avoid any incoming rounds and to make it look like I meant to do that. The store owner called 911, which is good because I then did a roll and attempted to draw my Glock.

Unfortunately, since I did not have a holster, the gun "went off", and the bullet creased my wiener. But I was prepared for that and bit down on a 9mm casing to take my mind off the pain as I dove for the garbage barrel. That's when I noticed the Girl Scout shouting something to her mother who began to take cover. I knew they were closing on me so I drew my custom trusty 1911 Wilson Combat...I knew that they would be impressed with that.
I then duck walked to the front of her SUV, but my gut kinda got in the way and I fell on my butt, which caused me to swallow my 9mm casing.

I then tried to roll to my right, but didn't want to scuff my holster, so I just threw myself into the telephone pole, but I landed on my right side anyway. So I fired one shot towards the woman's SUV to pin them down as I recovered my wind.

And before the mother knew what was happening, I charged her and I threw my groin into her knee. I knew that as I vomited on the ground in front of her that I had interupted her OODA loop. I had the advantage now. As she ran screaming for the Girl Scout, (I knew she was going for backup) I made for my Super Charged BRAT Tactical truck. I jumped into the drivers seat forgetting that I had left my rare Israeli contract AR 15 Bayonet on the seat, honed to a razor's edge. I could handle it though. Half of my butt is an implant from war wounds.

As I attempted to start my truck, police and paramedics arrived on the scene. My truck would not start and instead backfired once and caused the police to Tase me. At which point I tactically soiled myself while in convulsions. My custom 1911 then fell out the window, but I still had my Centennial .38. I knew that I had to take out the woman with the purse.

So I aimed my revolver at her at which point the first police officer fired once striking me in the chest. Fortunately, I was wearing my level 3A body armor. I didn't want to hurt the cops--they had obviously been duped by the evil temptress who was now embracing her partner in crime and crying to the police in the background. I knew it was a ruse.

I pulled out my concealed weapons permit badge and showed it to the officer who shot me and yelled out, "I'm one of you guys!" He continued to cover me and ordered me to drop my .38 so I laid it down. I still had my bayonet after all, attached to my butt. The cop walked toward me and upon reading the badge, maced me right in the eyes. Fortunately, my Oakley shooting glasses stopped most of the spray and I was able to rip free of the Taser cords easily. It only cost me one nipple, easily replaced. I dove for the passenger side of my truck and began to run zig-zag for a ditch.
Unfortunately, the bayonet sticking out of my butt slowed me down. I knew it would have to be hand-to-hand now. I knew the cop coudn't take me when I saw he merely carried a Glock 17, not a man's gun. So I immediately threw my eye into his right hook, followed by a knee into his Mag light. As I lay thrashing on the ground, I took the heel of my Bates Enforcer boot and kicked at the cops ankle. I knew from my classified experiences in Tajikistan that once breaking the ankle, the cop would fall down and I could "stun kick" him in the head, knocking him out but not hurting him.

Apparently the cop had also been to Tajikistan because he side stepped me and struck me in the back with his ASP baton, but my trauma plate absorbed it. I then drew my Benchmade auto knife and was promptly tased again, but I was ready for it this time and only wet myself a little bit.

Next thing those cops knew, I was unconscious. That'll teach 'em.

danlpoon... You there? I'm rather interested to hear what your thoughts are on my response.

Neocowboy Great post.

/you crease that weiner with a 10mm Glock, you'll need more than a 9mm casing to bite down on...

//I carry both of my 10mm Glocks in Safepackers (new window): no risk of creasing one's weiner

///opening your Safepacker while talking about the wallet/money/iPod you keep in there truly does interrupt the OODA loop, especially when you start shooting high-power 10mm (pops) from retention (that shiat's LOUD...)

woop woop!
Don't know weather to get the fark out of Orlando or join the police force now.

BoobySnacks: danlpoon... You there? I'm rather interested to hear what your thoughts are on my response.
He is long gone...Great response by the way! Not angry, well reasoned, well thought out, and not a typical fark response. Ever in Chattanooga you deserve a beer or a trip to the range.

Personally, I think I'd get the fark outta Orlando. Why be a cop and deal with the seedy underside of a city that you know is a farkin' mess? And then send your kids to school there?

No thanks. I'd leave.

I_Like_Pie
Count on it... If you're ever in Sarasota, FL the same offer stands for you.

I love O-town cops. I got a $183 speeding ticket last night because they 'clocked' me at an intersection I never even passed. Plus I almost never speed..
Never gotten a ticket before and now I have to contest one.
It'll be great when they have submachine guns and they can use those instead of bashing some confused guys head into the sidewalk by hand as he gets arrested, aka what I witnessed downtown last weekend.

Night2o1: I had an undercover cop pull me over the other day because I wouldn't let him get into my lane on 417 -- I was already passing him and I guess he wanted to go after the guy in front of me who was doing around 85mph. After completely passing him he changed lanes and was on my ass. I figured it was a road-rager/asshat Florida driver so, being the good boy that I was (I bought the car two days before that, dammit!) I changed lanes as soon as I had the chance.

Instead of continuing forward , the bastard cut the car off behind me and was so close to my car I couldn't even see the headlamps anymore. By then I was freaking out and when I got to the Curry Ford exit I hauled ass through the toll booth to try to get away from him. Sure enough, the farktard turns on his lights and pulls me over.

He only gave me a warning (maybe he got off from me shaking from thinking my ass was going to get shot), but man, what a farking douchebag. He even made up how fast I was going - he said 50mph, I was doing 60+mph - at least it worked to my advantage. Either way, fark him. A lot of cops here are a bunch of power-hungry assholes.