Irony of all irony, for this woman's claims to be true then Bill Frist was right: you can diagnose someone by video alone.

I suppose I should enter the usual "suck it, Libs" at this point.

The Catholic Church considers refusing a feeding tube "euthanasia"?

Really?

Churchill2004
More or less, yes. Failure to accept/allow anything less than ALL avenues of treatment etc falls somewhere in the neihborhood of euthenasia/suicide/murder, depending. At least, that's my understanding ... I could be wrong. I haven't been wrong yet today, heh.

If he had been aborted it would have been better.

I prefer the version where his long lost evil twin takes his place and... or was that a Ludlum

subby: Break out the tinfoil mitres...Pope John Paul II was euthanized

This brings "I want to believe" to new levels of irony.

euthanasia ? euthanasia ? why are we worried about the them when we have our own trouble with kids ? huh ? what ? oh never mind that's different

/

One Catholic down, many, many to go .........

Ha!

Can't wait to see religious nuts get their panties in a wedge over this one.

Life_is_a_carnivore:

One Catholic down, many, many to go .........

They cut off the head, but another one grew back in its place.

So by treatment, they mean feed? lol

incapacity to swallow

Suffered from the very same malady during my own forced encampment in the catlic school system.

Got the fukc out as soon as I was old enough.

First thing I noticed about the whole scam/sham/charade/fraud?

The folk, shoveling the sh*t down our little, 5-year old throats, weren't practicing a whole lot of it themselves.

I was right. They haven't changed a bit.

Maybe I'd care if he was a cool pope.

Mugato: So does that mean he's in hell now?

lol this

I'm not sure how to snark this so here's a puppy.

A fat, sad, tired puppy. What the hell happened to that poor thing?

Failure to accept/allow anything less than ALL avenues of treatment etc falls somewhere in the neihborhood of euthenasia/suicide/murder, depending.

What crap. Sometimes the treatment is just as bad as (or worse) than the disease. If you tell a physician that you'd rather let the cancer run its course instead of subjecting yourself to months of chemotherapy (and all the happy fun time pleasures that shiat brings to the party), that is *not* the same as deciding to eat an entire bottle of sleeping pills.

Too little, too late.

What happens when radical life-extension becomes a reality?

Will we have a 1,000 year pope, enforcing the Catholic dogma even as society evolves beyond all recognition?

What happens when machine intelligence becomes a reality?

Can an intelligent artifact become the final, immortal pope, constructed by the hand of man through intellectual effort rather than by the throbbing imperative of our raw, animalistic drives?

slackist: If he had been aborted it would have been better.

loser.

nashBridges: Irony of all irony, for this woman's claims to be true then Bill Frist was right: you can diagnose someone by video alone.

I suppose I should enter the usual "suck it, Libs" at this point.

This is what I came in to say. Except I was going to say "Suck it Fundies!!!1! Har har RolFLmAo.

Nothing new here. Popes do not fare much better than Spinal Tap's drummers.

John VIII (872-882) - Allegedly poisoned and then clubbed to death
Adrian III (884-885)- Allegedly poisoned
Stephen VI (896-897) - Strangled
Leo V (903) - Allegedly strangled
John X (914-928) - Allegedly smothered with pillow
Stephen VII/(VIII) (928-931) - Allegedly murdered
Stephen VIII/(IX) (939-942) - Mutilated
John XII (955-964) - Murdered by cuckolded husband
Benedict VI (973-974) - Strangled
John XIV (983-984) - Either by starvation, ill-treatment or direct murder
Gregory V (996-999) - Poisoned
Sergius IV (1009-1012) - Allegedly murdered
Clement II (1046-1047) - Allegedly poisoned
Damasus II (1048) - Allegedly murdered
Boniface VIII (1294-1303) - Death possibly (though unlikely) from the effects of ill-treatment one month before
Benedict XI (1304-1305) - Allegedly poisoned; no evidence provided
John Paul I (1978) - Allegedly poisoned; no evidence provided

John "Stumpy" Pepys -- died in 1969 in a bizarre gardening accident.
Eric Childs -- died 1974, choking to death on someone else's vomit.
Peter "James" Bond -- spontaneously combusted on stage in 1977.
Mick Shrimpton, who replaced Bond, disappeared and is presumed dead, as his brother Ric replaced him in 1992 and interviews with Ric make reference to other Tap members saying "We're not sure we want to put your mum through this again." (Rip, June 1992). I can't find a cause of death stated anywhere, though.
In an interview on the Arsenio Hall Show in December 1992, David St. Hubbins referred to a drummer he did not name who had been accidentally packed with the band's equipment and never seen again. St. Hubbins also claimed then that the band had had 12 drummers.

/coincedence?

biglot: The folk, shoveling the sh*t down our little, 5-year old throats, weren't practicing a whole lot of it themselves.

A priest once said, "Give me the boy for the first seven years, and I will give you the man".

Pedophile jokes aside, that gives you a pretty profound insight into the manner by which religion propagates itself. Religion is dependent on gullible children whose minds are still developing. If you first suggested religious ideas to an adult who had never been exposed to them before, he'd fall on the floor laughing.

FriarReb98: This is the same poor man who reportedly got sepsis before he died. One of the most powerful men on earth, and they allowed him to get sepsis?? Just ridiculous....

In the US, sepsis is the leading cause of death in ICU patients and can be next to impossible to control.

Wasn't the catholic church all snarky about refusing to give Terri Schiavo a feeding tube?

euthanasianot so Italian doctor lady -1 to you.

EVEN IF feeding was refused (A la Schiavo) that still doesn't make it Euthanasia

BravadoGT

**LEGALLY SPEAKING** yes she did

Ota Benga
What happens when radical life-extension becomes a reality?

Will we have a 1,000 year pope, enforcing the Catholic dogma even as society evolves beyond all recognition?

What happens when machine intelligence becomes a reality?

Can an intelligent artifact become the final, immortal pope, constructed by the hand of man through intellectual effort rather than by the throbbing imperative of our raw, animalistic drives?

Well lets just hope like hell that never happens.

stevefly: slackist: If he had been aborted it would have been better.

loser. Looser.

Sorry. Pet peeve.

thisispete: Not entirely. Here's what the Vatican's Declaration on Euthanasia (pops), May 5 1980 says:"When inevitable death is imminent in spite of the means used, it is permitted in conscience to take the decision to refuse forms of treatment that would only secure a precarious and burdensome prolongation of life, so long as the normal care due to the sick person in similar cases is not interrupted. In such circumstances the doctor has no reason to reproach himself with failing to help the person in danger."

However, thy declared in a more recent statement that

When stating that the administration of food and water is morally obligatory in principle, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith does not exclude the possibility that, in very remote places or in situations of extreme poverty, the artificial provision of food and water may be physically impossible, and then ad impossibilia nemo tenetur. However, the obligation to offer the minimal treatments that are available remains in place, as well as that of obtaining, if possible, the means necessary for an adequate support of life. Nor is the possibility excluded that, due to emerging complications, a patient may be unable to assimilate food and liquids, so that their provision becomes altogether useless. Finally, the possibility is not absolutely excluded that, in some rare cases, artificial nourishment and hydration may be excessively burdensome for the patient or may cause significant physical discomfort, for example resulting from complications in the use of the means employed.

These exceptional cases, however, take nothing away from the general ethical criterion, according to which the provision of water and food, even by artificial means, always represents a natural means for preserving life, and is not a therapeutic treatment. Its use should therefore be considered ordinary and proportionate, even when the "vegetative state" is prolonged. (from here, emphasis mine).

So, you can withdraw tube feeding / hydration, but only in exceptional circumstances, and certainly not to prevent the prolonging of a coma / PVS with little or no hope of recovery.

As Will Saletan has pointed out, if passing food through a tube is "natural" feeding, why is passing air through a tube not "natural" breathing? Indeed, all medical treatment is designed to preserve the natural function of the body.

Go Fast Turn Left: Life_is_a_carnivore: One Catholic down, many, many to go .........

Yeah...and hopefully before we're all gone, you won't be wasting the perfectly good air everyone else would like.


Aren't you supposed to love all mankind, even those who oppose your faith??

Best wishes to you, lamb.

Catholics are hypocrites? You mean the same people who preach love at the same time as ass-raping children may not practice what they preach? Shocking.

Why would the Catholic Church - one of the biggest proponents of that great resort in the sky - want people to postpone their visit by any means necessary? If life is supposed to have sanctity, shouldn't it have some integrity? If all the Terry Schiavos of the world's "lives" are sacred, then so are other vegetables' lives - carrots, zucchini, etc.

Saying brain-dead-feeding-tube-no-consciousness-ever-again type life is sacred, is like saying those stupid little doggie weddings people perform are sacred.

Thank you.

The article is all hype but doesn't deliver what the title indicates. The title "Was John Paul II Euthanized?" causes you to think that the "extreme measures" weren't taken. But looking in the article you see they did add the feeding tube a few days before his death. That sounds more like a judgement call by a doctor than euthanasia.

BravadoGT

no it isn't

when you choose some one to have medical power of attorney over you (and when you get married ya kinda make this choice) you say "this person would do what I'd do if I could not make choices for myself"

not specious at all.

Sammy Jenkins: Catholics are hypocrites? You mean the same people who preach love at the same time as ass-raping children may not practice what they preach? Shocking.

Hey, I'm no fan of religion, but that's not exactly fair. Catholics don't ass-rape children, their leaders do. That's like the same mistake that people from outside the US make in thinking people from America all support and want to emulate George Bush. It's equally wrong in either case.

Of course, many Catholics (my parents included) still make financial contributions to the Catholic Church, which gives aid and comfort to the child-rapists, so part of me wonders if that's much better...

BravadoGT: Someone who has the legal authority to speak on your behalf is not anywhere close to actually speaking on your own behalf.

So granting someone power of attorney over you and telling them to pull the plug is "more bad" than if you leaned over and said, "put me out of my misery?"