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(CNN)   "Ironic" tag working overtime as ACLU announces support for Larry Craig   (cnn.com) divider line 257
    More: Ironic  
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5692 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Sep 2007 at 5:58 AM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-09-18 07:31:45 AM  
That's not ironic at all. Subby -5 ironic tag points.

-5 more for being a farking intolerant asshat.
 
2007-09-18 07:35:41 AM  
hillbillypharmacist
As much as I think the arrest itself was fishy (because really, the way to stop people having sex in public is to simply make a uniformed police presence, not some goddam sting operation)

That's what I never understood. I mean...I'm assuming there's already airport security in place. Why not just have them do routine rounds through the public restrooms? Stall lurkers generally aren't exactly the violent criminal type; I would think just the knowledge that security is making routine checks would be enough to deter them. And the security officers are kinda already being paid to watch the place.

But, why go through all the time and money to bring in undercover cops to make "sting operations"? I mean, I realize it's gross, but it's not like they're trafficking coke in through the bathrooms.
 
2007-09-18 07:36:59 AM  
I'M NOT GAY

I JUST THINK I'M SO IMPORTANT
YOU MIGHT WANNA SUCK MY COQUE
 
2007-09-18 07:44:56 AM  
BritneysSpeculum: That is not ironic. It's what the ACLU does. Protecting hypocritical asshats is sort of its mission statement.

This is exactly correct. It was the ACLU who defended the rights of students to wear confederate flag t-shirts to school (I believe those cases were in Georgia and Kentucky....don't care enough to spare the 15 sec to google....)
 
2007-09-18 07:45:05 AM  
Donald_McRonald: Not ironic. The ACLU takes a wide stance on constitutional rights.

Oh it's getting pretty gay now! They're in their wide stance, with their hammer pants, down!
 
2007-09-18 07:50:44 AM  
I think they should make exceptions for protecting people who worked to create the types of rules that got them into trouble.

If they decided to hold Alberto Gonzales in some third world country without charges, I'd be fine with that.
 
2007-09-18 07:57:20 AM  
If it wasn't for the ACLU we wouldn't have Sean Hannity:

Hannity hosted his first talk radio show in 1987 at KCSB-FM, the volunteer college station at UC Santa Barbara. After airing for 40 hours of air time, Hannity's weekly show was cancelled in 1989, when KCSB management charged him with "discriminating against gays and lesbians" after two shows featuring the book The AIDS Coverup: The Real and Alarming Facts about AIDS by Gene Antonio. The station reversed its decision to dismiss Hannity due in part to a campaign conducted by the Santa Barbara Chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union. Hannity decided against returning to KCSB

it's true.
 
2007-09-18 07:57:45 AM  
I'm just wondering why the ACLU is defending Larry Craig instead of some random schmuck that hasn't plead guilty yet. If you want to get the law overturned, don't try on a case that will probably lose because the idiot already plead guilty.

I think the ACLU is doing this for the perversity factor; they can get the publicity for defending someone who would cheerfully ship them off to a gulag if it were allowable. Maybe they want to give anyone who pleads guilty the right to change their mind. That would be a bad idea, IMO.
 
2007-09-18 07:58:44 AM  
Craig, R-Idaho, was arrested in June at Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport in Minnesota...

R-idaho? Ridaho?

You know, if he had ridden a ho, he wouldn't be in all this trouble in the first place.
 
2007-09-18 08:02:51 AM  
Oh, I love these stories. A good ACLU post on the front page. There is no better way to filter the fark fascists from the Americans than a good ACLU post on the front page.
 
2007-09-18 08:05:30 AM  
Random Reality Check: Here's the deal, if you solicit sex in a public bathroom, you may not be
breaking any specific law


Here's the deal, if you aren't breaking any specific law, you shouldn't be arrested.

There are no exceptions.

Ever.
 
2007-09-18 08:09:43 AM  
Well at least the New York Times is still a faithful member of the Evil Liberal Cabal!

/What?
//Judith who?!
 
2007-09-18 08:10:08 AM  
I_Can't_Believe_it's_not_Boutros: R-idaho? Ridaho?

You know, if he had ridden a ho, he wouldn't be in all this trouble in the first place.


Well, you can ask Jesus for forgiveness from that.

But not from loving hairy man-ass.
 
2007-09-18 08:14:24 AM  
I_Can't_Believe_it's_not_Boutros: Craig, R-Idaho, was arrested in June at Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport in Minnesota...

R-idaho? Ridaho?

You know, if he had ridden a ho, he wouldn't be in all this trouble in the first place.


Terry would like to have a quick word with you:
img517.imageshack.us
 
2007-09-18 08:19:52 AM  
if you find this ironic or even noteworthy you are a moron.
 
2007-09-18 08:23:53 AM  
I don't know why anyone would think this is ironic. The ACLU has a history of siding with and / or defending perverts. This is nothing new.
 
2007-09-18 08:26:45 AM  
If you come for silly banter and stupid Larry Craig jokes, but get intellectual lectures and anal debate on the definition and nuances of the word "Ironic", is that ironic?

/just asking
 
2007-09-18 08:29:54 AM  
This Is Bold Text: True. Their point is to fight back against the mob mentality no matter who is being victimized.


Rims.

And it's why I love those guys. They are consistent enough to cross party lines when needed.
 
2007-09-18 08:31:26 AM  
Ace Frehley's Ghost:
If we allow Larry Craig, who really should have known better, to withdraw a guilty plea on even this minor charge, then a guilty plea won't mean a damn thing from here on out.


No - it's not a "oh, gee, I plead guilty when I meant to say innocent, ha ha ha!" thing, it's a "this was an unconstitutional conviction," which is why the ACLU is stepping in.
The question is whether a guilty plea can be overturned on constitutional grounds or not, not whether any guilty plea can be overturned.

Here's a hypothetical for you:
You get arrested and brought to the station where you're tortured with waterboarding and Richard Simmons videos for the next week. Finally, they "allow" you to sign a confession pleading guilty of whatever crime they want.
Clearly that's unconstitutional - shouldn't your guilty plea be overturned on constitutional grounds?

In this case, the ACLU is saying that because Craig committed no criminal act - touching someone's foot isn't criminal, and sticking your hand under a stall isn't criminal - he has not committed a crime, even if he had the intent to commit a crime. All crimes require both an actus reus and a mens rea, and without an act, there is no crime here.

It's debatable whether Craig ultimately 'gets off' at trial, but it certainly makes sense that guilty pleas for unconstitutional convictions should be overturned.
 
2007-09-18 08:32:02 AM  
BritneysSpeculum: That is not ironic. It's what the ACLU does. Protecting hypocritical asshats the Constitution of the United States of America is sort of its mission statement.

FTFY
 
2007-09-18 08:36:55 AM  
Yes!!! Because you have a RIGHT to sodomize another man in front of young boys in a public toilet!!! Maybe a young boy, himself!!!! Take it out of the bathroom stall and onto the playground!!!! Thank the nonexistent God for the ACLU!!!! Truly, they deserve the img1.fark.com tag!!!!
 
2007-09-18 08:37:23 AM  
Dupa: If you come for silly banter and stupid Larry Craig jokes, but get intellectual lectures and anal debate on the definition and nuances of the word "Ironic", is that ironic?

I think context matters. In cases of a misused ironic tag, you'd expect to see a discussion of what is/isn't irony/ironic. It would be ironic if no such conversation took place.
 
2007-09-18 08:40:24 AM  
ComicBookGuy: Yes!!! Because you have a RIGHT to sodomize another man in front of young boys in a public toilet!!! Maybe a young boy, himself!!!! Take it out of the bathroom stall and onto the playground!!!! Thank the nonexistent God for the ACLU!!!! Truly, they deserve the tag!!!!



There aren't enough FAIL pics in all the tubes for that comment.
 
2007-09-18 08:40:52 AM  
Desterion: Sure took them long enough to decide they'd like to protect the constitution in this case. If it was a democrat, they'd have been there within 12-18 hours.

amicus curiae briefs aren't exactly a time friendly document to produce. they're no speaking up to represent him; the dude already has lawyers. the purpose of the amicus curiae brief is to voice support on behalf of the plaintiff's case. it's good to know you're very well educated on our legal system.
 
2007-09-18 08:42:37 AM  
Dramadairy: Random Reality Check: Here's the deal, if you solicit sex in a public bathroom, you may not be
breaking any specific law

Here's the deal, if you aren't breaking any specific law, you shouldn't be arrested.

There are no exceptions.

Ever.


Ah no.

There does not need to be a specific law that makes sex in a public restroom illegal. These kinds of acts can fall under anything from indecent exposure to public lewdness - depending on the circumstances.

This is what a court is there to decide - did he break any laws that were on the books and if so, what laws and penalties apply.
 
2007-09-18 08:43:40 AM  
"Yes!!! Because you have a RIGHT to sodomize another man in front of young boys in a public toilet!!!"

That did not happen in this case, but if you need that right (and it sounds like you are rather excited by the idea), take it up with your Congressman.
 
2007-09-18 08:46:16 AM  
ComicBookGuy: Yes!!! Because you have a RIGHT to sodomize another man in front of young boys in a public toilet!!!

It's not just a right, it's a civic duty.
 
2007-09-18 08:46:29 AM  
dracos31: ComicBookGuy: Yes!!! Because you have a RIGHT to sodomize another man in front of young boys in a public toilet!!! Maybe a young boy, himself!!!! Take it out of the bathroom stall and onto the playground!!!! Thank the nonexistent God for the ACLU!!!! Truly, they deserve the tag!!!!



There aren't enough FAIL pics in all the tubes for that comment.


Are you against SODOMY in public places? What are you, some sort of fascist? I guess I'm just more tolerant than you!! Why don't you get in your SUV covered w/"W'04" stickers and drive into a river, fatty?
 
2007-09-18 08:46:53 AM  
The ACLU is often right, and they are right in this case.

As much as I hate smug hypocritical asshats like Larry Craig, people have the right to "solicit sex" -- i.e., to express sexual interest in another person -- almost anywhere.
Performing sexual acts in public is illegal almost everywhere, but he is not accused of having done that.

The reason he tried to hide this, and the reason he is now under pressure to resign, is not homosexuality. He's in trouble because he, and the party to which he belongs, hate and fear homosexuality.
It's bad enough to preach hatred against others for the way (Craig's imaginary friend) God made them... it's worse to preach hatred against a group that you secretly belong to.
 
2007-09-18 08:47:25 AM  
BoobiesontheMainpage: Holy shiat, I'm drunk at 6:07 AM.


I'm jealous!
 
2007-09-18 08:48:59 AM  
ComicBookGuy:

Are you against SODOMY in public places?


Yes. Sodomy should be practiced in private, with liberal applications of lube.
 
2007-09-18 08:49:39 AM  
There seems to be a lot of people in this thread that have NO idea what the ACLU does.
 
2007-09-18 08:50:48 AM  
ComicBookGuy: Yes!!! Because you have a RIGHT to sodomize another man in front of young boys in a public toilet!!! Maybe a young boy, himself!!!! Take it out of the bathroom stall and onto the playground!!!! Thank the nonexistent God for the ACLU!!!! Truly, they deserve the [hero] tag!!!!

Lousy troll. I give it a 3.
 
2007-09-18 08:51:20 AM  
Random Reality Check: Ah no.

Ah yes.

Your attitude on the job of the police is what leads to things like that cop in Missouri shouting that he can just arrest people and make something up later.

The police are not there to enforce your personal moral standards inside or outside of public restrooms. If there is no crime, and no reasonable suspicion of a crime, there is no arrest, there are no exceptions.

Using the Larry Craig incident to refute this is pointless. I'm not taking exception with his arrest, I'm taking exception with your assertion that the police should be able to arrest people even if they can't cite any actual law you're violating to justify it.
 
2007-09-18 08:52:10 AM  
darkedgefan: The only reason the ACLU is helping Craig is because if he stays in the Senate it hurts the Republicans protecting civil liberties, even of asshats, is what they do.

FTFY.
 
2007-09-18 08:54:23 AM  
I love how upset the ACLU makes some people. Everything they do is far more American than anything the current administration has done over the past 7 years.
 
2007-09-18 08:54:41 AM  
dracos31: ComicBookGuy:

Are you against SODOMY in public places?

Yes. Sodomy should be practiced in private, with liberal applications of lube.


Personally, I really like it when some dude has diarrhea and fires his "lube" while I'm farking him in the ass. So unbelievably hot!!!
 
2007-09-18 08:57:36 AM  
Sue D. Nymme: ComicBookGuy: Yes!!! Because you have a RIGHT to sodomize another man in front of young boys in a public toilet!!! Maybe a young boy, himself!!!! Take it out of the bathroom stall and onto the playground!!!! Thank the nonexistent God for the ACLU!!!! Truly, they deserve the [hero] tag!!!!

Lousy troll. I give it a 3.


A "lousy troll" is one no one reacts to!!! ^_____^

Not that I was trolling, mind you!!!!
 
2007-09-18 09:07:25 AM  
The ACLU, helping the US Americans to exercise the right to pursue happiness any old way they want since 1920. Now specializing in defending Nazis, pornographers, religious zealots, senators who solicit sex in public bathrooms, racists, and extremists of all sorts.
 
2007-09-18 09:09:15 AM  
hillbillypharmacist: the way to stop people having (gay) sex in public is.....

to remove the stigma for homosexuality in American society so that there won't be so many closeted gay men who can't deal with their longing for a donging.

/not gonna happen in my lifetime.
 
2007-09-18 09:11:03 AM  
Politics does make strange bedfellows.
 
2007-09-18 09:11:09 AM  
firefly212: I can't see any legal basis for letting him pull his guilty plea, given that he acknowledges in the plea that he does not believe he is innocent of the charges, and he acknowledges that he is waiving his right to a trial.

This.

The court made it quite clear that it does not accept guilty pleas from defendants who believed themselves innocent. In this situation Larry should have entered an Alford plea (pops). Why is this so difficult?
 
2007-09-18 09:11:41 AM  
Bhasayate: The ACLU, helping the US Americans to exercise the right to pursue happiness any old way they want since 1920.

Yeah. Where the hell did they get that "pursuit of happiness" idea anyway? It sounds Islamofascist to me.
 
2007-09-18 09:12:11 AM  
Goddamnit.

As a card carrying member of the ACLU, I understand why they are doing this, but it's harshing my schafenfreude buzz.

/hates Illinois Nazis too.
 
2007-09-18 09:13:33 AM  
the hatred of the aclu by self-styled "patriots" is what is truly ironic here.

here's an organization whose sole purpose is to defend the constitutional rights of all americans, however unpopular their views. that's not just patriotic - it may be the single most patriotic mission evAr.

/asshats.
 
2007-09-18 09:14:19 AM  
Dramadairy:

Ah yes.

Okay, have it your way.

Your attitude on the job of the police is what leads to things like that cop in Missouri shouting that he can just arrest people and make something up later.

No, not at all.
That's not what I said or implied.

The police are not there to enforce your personal moral standards inside or outside of public restrooms. If there is no crime, and no reasonable suspicion of a crime, there is no arrest, there are no exceptions.

My personal morals or your personal morals have nothing to do with this.

I believe there was reasonable motivation to question Senator Craig but to be honest with you I am not sure if there was a reason to arrest him.

If there was no reason to arrest him then one would like to think this is what the courts are there to do - and yes, I understand that this is not really how things work.

However, if Senator Craig was innocent, he should have hired a team of lawyers and dragged this into the press. He might have actually made a difference - but instead he decided to take the coward's way out.

Fine work there Mr. Senator.

Using the Larry Craig incident to refute this is pointless. I'm not taking exception with his arrest, I'm taking exception with your assertion that the police should be able to arrest people even if they can't cite any actual law you're violating to justify it.

This is a distortion of my point.

I didn't say or imply that the police should be able to arrest people even if they can't cite any actual law you're violating I said that if the arresting officer believes a law has been broken, it is his duty to arrest you. It then becomes the District Attorney's job to decide whether to prosecute you - something that should have been the next check in the system. I don't know if this happened but had the DA decided to press charges, the next step is for the court to decide of there has been a law broken and what the possible punishment should be.

Now, I readily admit that the system does not always work that way and that something should be done to remedy that situation. It might have been nice if a powerful elected official had used this incident to drive those changes through but, instead, that didn't happen.
 
2007-09-18 09:15:44 AM  
williehorton: The ACLU is often right, and they are right in this case.

As much as I hate smug hypocritical asshats like Larry Craig, people have the right to "solicit sex" -- i.e., to express sexual interest in another person -- almost anywhere.
Performing sexual acts in public is illegal almost everywhere, but he is not accused of having done that.

The reason he tried to hide this, and the reason he is now under pressure to resign, is not homosexuality. He's in trouble because he, and the party to which he belongs, hate and fear homosexuality.
It's bad enough to preach hatred against others for the way (Craig's imaginary friend) God made them... it's worse to preach hatred against a group that you secretly belong to.

=================================================

I agree with everything except your assertion that it is not about homosexuality. It's not just that his party preaches the hate, it's that his constituents FEEL that fear and hatred. They preach the hate, not because they feel it, but because they know there are many people who do. It's apparent Larry Craig is not against homosexuality.
 
2007-09-18 09:15:59 AM  
Bhasayate: The ACLU, helping the US Americans to exercise the right to pursue happiness any old way they want since 1920. Now specializing in defending Nazis, pornographers, religious zealots, senators who solicit sex in public bathrooms, racists, and extremists of all sorts.

the pursuit of happiness refers to PUBLIC happiness. in the context of when the document was written and by whom, the PUBLIC aspect goes missed by the current generation. public happiness means to participate in government as a right of the citizen.

/lacking a life currently.
 
2007-09-18 09:16:20 AM  
Sorry, I have no sympathy for a congresscritter who doesn't even realize the limits of his understanding of the law well enough to seek counsel before pleading guilty. Doesn't matter whether he pled to solicitation or to littering; trying to backpeddle at this point means he shouldn't have been a legislator to begin with.
 
2007-09-18 09:20:00 AM  
Bhasayate: The ACLU, helping the US Americans to exercise the right to pursue happiness any old way they want since 1920. Now specializing in defending Nazis, pornographers, religious zealots, senators who solicit sex in public bathrooms, racists, and extremists of all sorts.
====================================================

One man's Nazi is another man's soldier. One man's racist is another man's idealist. We all generally accept Martin Luther King Jr.'s views today, but there was a time when people claimed he was a Communist. The ACLU does not defend anyone's spcific views. They protect the right that we all have to express them.
 
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