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(Telegraph)   Man refused surgery on ankle - because he smokes   (telegraph.co.uk) divider line 304
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16203 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Sep 2007 at 6:52 AM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-09-13 10:28:55 PM
Just a preview of things to come for America. Enjoy!
 
2007-09-13 10:42:54 PM
Uh, they offered surgery already and he refused because he read too many stories about MRSA. At that point you lose your right to biatch.
 
2007-09-13 10:55:04 PM
But, he needs that ankle to walk to the store to buy cigarettes!
 
2007-09-13 10:55:13 PM
He refused surgery when he first injured the ankle in a fall in 2005 because he was worried about catching MRSA in hospital.

All my pity just left the room.

/Had surgery on my ankle, way not fun.
 
2007-09-13 11:07:20 PM
He refused surgery when he first injured the ankle in a fall in 2005 because he was worried about catching MRSA in hospital.

What a farking idiot. Nice reporting, too:

A smoker is facing years of pain after an NHS hospital refused to set his broken ankle unless he gives up cigarettes.


No, he's facing giving up smoking. At that point, when his recovery chances may be significantly improved, he can have the surgery.
 
2007-09-13 11:59:49 PM
dragonlord10: Just a preview of things to come for America. Enjoy!

In my line of work, I have come across numerous surgeons who will not do bone graft surgery (in my experience, mainly on the spine) here in the USA unless the patient gives up smoking for 6 months. Those are the principled surgeons. It does dramatically reduce the rate of fusion, and can be worse than never having the surgery at all. Then there are the less principled surgeons who couldn't give a rat's ass as long as you or your insurance company are willing to cough up tens of thousands of dollars. Take that for what it's worth, but this isn't a USA v. rest of the world thing. If a surgeon thinks he will do more harm than good, he better do nothing at all.
 
2007-09-14 12:21:04 AM
SMOKING THREAD!!1!
 
2007-09-14 12:47:29 AM
Yeah, I can't really find fault with this. If the smoking is going to hinder the surgery, then no surgery until smoking stops.
 
2007-09-14 01:44:55 AM
dragonlord10: Just a preview of things to come for America. Enjoy!

Thank you for rushing in to show how much of a dumbass you are.
 
2007-09-14 03:27:11 AM
A spokesman for the hospital trust said: "Smoking has a very big influence on the outcome of this type of surgery and the healing process would be hindered significantly."

Smoking significantly affects how well your bones heal? I'm no doctor, but I'm a bit suspicious of that claim.
 
2007-09-14 06:55:30 AM
img.photobucket.com

That guy sure smoked...
 
2007-09-14 06:57:30 AM
I've been refused finger surgery due to smoking. The surgeon was concerned that smoking retards the healing process.
 
2007-09-14 07:02:47 AM
seems fairly reasonable to me, seeing as the NHS provides help to those who wish to quit smoking.
 
2007-09-14 07:03:13 AM
I believe it has to do with blood circulation and the sticking of tubes down your airway, the Mayo Clinic will not perform a scheduled surgery until 3 weeks after you have stopped smoking, AND they do a nicotine test to prove it.

/Have had to reschedule the day b4 because I didnt know that shiz
//My dad too, and now his op is this monday instead of 5 weeks ago
 
2007-09-14 07:03:22 AM
buckler: I've been refused finger surgery due to smoking. The surgeon was concerned that smoking retards the healing process.


FTFY

/bwahahahah
 
2007-09-14 07:03:52 AM
Epsilon: Smoking significantly affects how well your bones heal? I'm no doctor, but I'm a bit suspicious of that claim.

Yup, it's true. We got this lecture in medschool. Smoking is a risk factor for just about everything. We're not completely sure whether it's correlation or causation, but smokers heal more slowly compared to non-smokers. In lay-man's terms, you're puffing carbon monoxide, which permanently binds heme in red blood cells removing them from carrying oxygen. Healing tissue needs tons of oxygen (must make ATP... lots of ATP). Thus, it makes sense that it would impair healing.

Second, why would the doc want the liability of having a patient that's a higher risk factor for negative outcomes if the patient can reduce the chance of those negative outcomes?
 
2007-09-14 07:06:37 AM
Even if it does improve healing, I would think that the shock your body goes through from losing regular nicotine intake would somehow make your situation worse for a while.

Anyone else care to comment on this idea? Experts?
 
2007-09-14 07:07:36 AM
img1.fark.com
 
2007-09-14 07:08:30 AM
So he's on morphine, but he can't give up cigarettes? Wow!
Bah, make tobacco illegal for all I care.

/Then you'd see what it's like for those of us who prefer skunk.
//"They're all bastards out there." (Dudley Moore)
 
2007-09-14 07:10:18 AM
i smoke, but this makes sense to me. why would any ethical surgeon perform a procedure they knew would be hindered by the patient smoking? why doesn't he (the patient) just stop being a biatch and give up smoking for a while so he can get the surgery he needs? seriously. hell, maybe after a few months, he won't even want to start up again. everybody wins!
 
2007-09-14 07:10:33 AM
All you fools that missed the article about the NHS declaring that policy would be enacted to refuse service to smokers (who pay more in taxes to the system) need to wake up.

Realize that this is a start in the social engineering through bureaucracy to make sure you cannot light a fire because they will eventually ban cigarettes and declare small butane lighters as drug paraphernalia and require you to fill out a form to buy a 36 inch long official fireplace lighter. But you won't be able to buy the official butane refills due to global warming concerns.

This is the start of the end of the age of Prometheus. Mankind will go back to the caves, eating cold chunks of raw pigeon.
 
2007-09-14 07:10:35 AM
Epsilon:

Smoking significantly affects how well your bones heal? I'm no doctor, but I'm a bit suspicious of that claim.


You don't need to be a doctor to google 'smoking bones heal'.
 
2007-09-14 07:13:11 AM
dragonlord10
Just a preview of things to come for America. Enjoy!

Dude, I have a saved freetext letter I send to folk on my caseload who are candidates for surgery yet are still smokers.

It says (paraphrased and summerized): "Deny".

/It's all about the #'s and $'s.
 
2007-09-14 07:13:54 AM
If only there was some sort of system where he could assume the risk of the operation failing himself, and not force the whole government to assume the risk.
 
2007-09-14 07:13:59 AM
wildcardjack: All you fools that missed the article about the NHS declaring that policy would be enacted to refuse service to smokers (who pay more in taxes to the system) need to wake up.

Realize that this is a start in the social engineering through bureaucracy to make sure you cannot light a fire because they will eventually ban cigarettes and declare small butane lighters as drug paraphernalia and require you to fill out a form to buy a 36 inch long official fireplace lighter. But you won't be able to buy the official butane refills due to global warming concerns.

This is the start of the end of the age of Prometheus. Mankind will go back to the caves, eating cold chunks of raw pigeon.


OR it could just be a way of increasing his chances of recovery.
 
2007-09-14 07:14:25 AM
wildcardjack: Mankind will go back to the caves, eating cold chunks of raw pigeon.

It'll make dating easier though.

/Clubs prospective mate over the head, drags back to cave
 
2007-09-14 07:14:57 AM
Katolu


FTFY

/bwahahahah


teh funnay.
 
2007-09-14 07:15:13 AM
So I'm guessing that everyone saying he deserves it is ready to throw every single drug addict, alcoholic, pot smoker, or anyone that may be exposed to harmful vapors in their daily job that may need health care out on the streets?

No? What a shocker.

Yeah, yeah. You may not like smokers, but if this guy's injury is going to keep him out of work and perhaps on the dole for a large part of his life, isn't this kind of a petty reason to refuse treatment? After all, they've been doing operations of this sort on smokers for a long, long time now. To refuse it now because it might impair healing is pretty damned flimsy.

It's a question of priorities. Implementing policies meant to make refusal of treatment easier for reasons of cost cutting masked behind vague moralizing and excuses doesn't really sit well with me.
 
2007-09-14 07:16:39 AM
CodeGod: If only there was some sort of system where he could assume the risk of the operation failing himself, and not force the whole government to assume the risk.

there is, private healthcare (we have it in the UK too), lots of employers provide heath coverage as part of the benefits scheme, failing that you can shell out yourself.

its no biggie if you dont have the means, because you are taken care of anyhow, but private means hotter nurses.
 
2007-09-14 07:16:46 AM
Epsilon: Smoking significantly affects how well your bones heal? I'm no doctor, but I'm a bit suspicious of that claim.

You know, "smoking healing" in Google gets you over two million results, including scientific studies like this one that says "Smoking places the patient at risk for increased time to union and complications. Previous smoking history also appears to increase the risk of osteomyelitis and increased time to union. The results highlight the need for orthopaedic surgeons to encourage their patients to enter a smoking cessation programs."
 
2007-09-14 07:18:25 AM
Prospero424: Yeah, yeah. You may not like smokers, but if this guy's injury is going to keep him out of work and perhaps on the dole for a large part of his life, isn't this kind of a petty reason to refuse treatment?

Isn't it kind of dumbfarkidiotic to not get needed surgery because you can't muster up the willpower to keep from smoking your cancer sticks for the next few months?
 
2007-09-14 07:19:29 AM
buckler: Katolu


FTFY

/bwahahahah

teh funnay.


It's the end of my shift and I'm a little loopy. It cracked me up when I first thought of it. Nothing personal :)
 
2007-09-14 07:19:43 AM
dragonlord10:
Just a preview of things to come for America. Enjoy!

Hahaha, unlikely. With the stranglehold that large corporations have on the political process, I doubt America will have "universal healthcare" in my lifetime, even if most people want it. So you'll have to go on enjoying your own brand of privately-insured healthcare horror stories.
 
2007-09-14 07:23:59 AM
I realize that in this situation the NHS is right, but since it is an NHS thread...

"Hello, I am Nanny, and I'll be your state today"
 
2007-09-14 07:24:10 AM
ceejayoz: Isn't it kind of dumbfarkidiotic to not get needed surgery because you can't muster up the willpower to keep from smoking your cancer sticks for the next few months?

Yes, yes it is. The question is whether you're going to be consistent with this reasoning.

Are you willing to throw every single drug addict, alcoholic, pot smoker, or anyone that may be exposed to harmful vapors in their daily job who may need health care out of hospitals and clinics? After all, they can "just stop" if they want to achieve the high privilege of receiving adequate health care, as well.
 
2007-09-14 07:25:00 AM
Epsilon: Smoking significantly affects how well your bones heal? I'm no doctor, but I'm a bit suspicious of that claim.


That's just the nicotine talking. Tell your nicotine it's been researched. If it's still suspicious just give it a cigarette.
 
2007-09-14 07:25:07 AM
Epsilon: Smoking significantly affects how well your bones heal? I'm no doctor, but I'm a bit suspicious of that claim.

It's not the smoking that inhibits bone growth after a bone graft, it's the nicotine. I smoked for over 20 years and when I had to have a spinal fusion the Dr. insisted I quit smoking before the operation. I couldn't use the patch either because the nicotine was the issue. I ended up quitting using Zyban, but the operation itself was the final step. I just never felt like smoking after I came out the anesthia. Been quit for 8 years now.
 
2007-09-14 07:26:24 AM
FarkTastic229: Epsilon: Smoking significantly affects how well your bones heal? I'm no doctor, but I'm a bit suspicious of that claim.

Yup, it's true. We got this lecture in medschool. Smoking is a risk factor for just about everything. We're not completely sure whether it's correlation or causation, but smokers heal more slowly compared to non-smokers. In lay-man's terms, you're puffing carbon monoxide, which permanently binds heme in red blood cells removing them from carrying oxygen. Healing tissue needs tons of oxygen (must make ATP... lots of ATP). Thus, it makes sense that it would impair healing.


Well strictly speaking, being inactive also slows recovery of most injuries as well. So really the NHS should ban smoking and require most patients to exercise afterwards....

My mother is a prime example. She hurt her arm (tripped while on a smoke break no less...) and that was in March. Her arm is still messed up. Guess how much of the exercise/stretches/etc she does ... yup zilch. Whenever I visit and she biatches about it I just ask her "been doing your exercises?" and I always get a look. It's really simple, if you don't build the muscle, and stretch things out, it'll never fully heal. Chances are at this rate she'll never fully heal.

/smokers are stupid...
 
2007-09-14 07:28:07 AM
My problem is with the double standard; that those who are addicted to alcohol and drugs are somehow victims and/or deserving of sympathy while cig smokers are just scum who deserve what they get.
 
2007-09-14 07:28:54 AM
Jujubunnie: Even if it does improve healing, I would think that the shock your body goes through from losing regular nicotine intake would somehow make your situation worse for a while.

Anyone else care to comment on this idea? Experts?


First: an "ex" is a has-been, and a "spurt" is that last little drop that won't come off no matter how hard you shake it.

That being said: in addition to cigarette usage hindering the healing process, smokers also have a much higher risk of contracting pneumonia after having surgery.

Dude needs to get on the patch, and quick. Of course, if he does this and gets his ankle fixed, he'll be expected to once again become a productive member of society.
 
2007-09-14 07:29:46 AM
wildcardjack: This is the start of the end of the age of Prometheus.

When man first stole fire from the gods, somehow I don't think the first thing he did with it was stick it in a pipe and smoke it.
 
2007-09-14 07:30:30 AM
Royal Cornwall Hospital? He's lucky to be alive

/worst hospital evah
 
2007-09-14 07:30:32 AM
I love smoking more then anyone, I'd even have sex with it if I could, but if the doc said it would be a problem with my surgery then I'll quit for a little bit. It would suck something awful and I'd be a horrible person to be around, but it's just not worth it.
 
2007-09-14 07:32:34 AM
I mean honestly.

He's not asking to be moved up on the liver transplant list. It's farking ankle surgery. Just fix his farking ankle.
 
2007-09-14 07:33:36 AM
Prospero424: So I'm guessing that everyone saying he deserves it is ready to throw every single drug addict, alcoholic, pot smoker, or anyone that may be exposed to harmful vapors in their daily job that may need health care out on the streets?

the comparison is not valid. he's not being turfed out onto the streets, just being asked to change his lifestyle to ensure the best possible result for this procedure.

No? What a shocker.

Yeah, yeah. You may not like smokers, but if this guy's injury is going to keep him out of work and perhaps on the dole for a large part of his life, isn't this kind of a petty reason to refuse treatment?

- Nope. he's retired.

After all, they've been doing operations of this sort on smokers for a long, long time now. To refuse it now because it might impair healing is pretty damned flimsy.

- Nope. the patient is continuing with behaviour which significantly reduces the possibility of a successful outcome of the surgery.


It's a question of priorities. Implementing policies meant to make refusal of treatment easier for reasons of cost cutting masked behind vague moralizing and excuses doesn't really sit well with me.


Again, It's not about cost cutting, but rather trying to ensure the best possible result of the procedure.

Finally, I dont buy this "I've tried to stop smoking but I just can't." Bullshiat. Here's how you do it in two easy stages.

1 - Don't buy cigarettes.
2- If someone offers you a cigarette you say "No thanks, I've quit".

How hard is that? Man up and get some self-discipline.
 
2007-09-14 07:34:49 AM
tomstdenis: smokers are stupid...

Not necessarily - nicotine is just a very focused master. People I know who have quit stopped saying the ridiculous things nicotine makes smokers say to rationalize smoking.
 
2007-09-14 07:35:14 AM
This isn't an issue of "smokers suck", it's probably the same logic that says you should fast before certain things, or that you probably shouldn't drink alchohol before you run a marathon, or eat a tub of crisco before you do anything.

PROTIP: do what your doctor says, then you get better, then go back do smoking. It works. I swear.

//Tobacco is awesome.
 
2007-09-14 07:36:34 AM
Prospero424: My problem is with the double standard; that those who are addicted to alcohol and drugs are somehow victims and/or deserving of sympathy while cig smokers are just scum who deserve what they get.

Winner.


/smoker
 
2007-09-14 07:39:41 AM
www.axzq41.dsl.pipex.com
 
2007-09-14 07:41:19 AM
Jonny17: Finally, I dont buy this "I've tried to stop smoking but I just can't." Bullshiat. Here's how you do it in two easy stages.

1 - Don't buy cigarettes.
2- If someone offers you a cigarette you say "No thanks, I've quit".

How hard is that? Man up and get some self-discipline.


You've never heard of addiction have you?
 
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