Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Arizona Star)   HOA to homeowners: Give us $8.5 million for a new rec center. Judge to HOA: Swallow it. HOA trifecta complete   (azstarnet.com) divider line 389
    More: Spiffy  
•       •       •

19078 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Sep 2007 at 1:44 PM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



389 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | » | Last | Show all
 
2007-09-13 02:44:19 PM  
andrew131: threetoehoek: I like the idea that most of you idiots don't like HOA's so you won't move in next to me!

-Thank you HOA

Funny, some of the shiattiest neighborhoods I've seen all have those HOA signs posted everywhere.

Tell me, what happens when your neighborhood goes to shiat and you get thugs or mafia type people running your HOA? Bet you didn't think your cunning plan all the way through.



A management company runs the HOA.. where is your cute little "thought your cunning plan through" picture for me??
 
2007-09-13 02:44:39 PM  
SchlingFo: MadAsshatter: Therefore, they don't care/don't understand. HOA's are just another "fascist" thing to whine about. "Hey man, what do you care what someone does with their own property??" I care when it makes my house unsellable b/c nobody wants to live next to the guy with the 2 foot tall grass. HOA's sometimes overstep their boundaries, like in this case but generally they are useful.

I grew up in a very nice neighborhood, with generally cool neighbors, and it's stayed a nice neighborhood in the 20 years it's been since I lived there.

There was no HOA.

Your dichotomy of "HOA" or "shiathole of a neighborhood" is exceedingly false.


I never said all neighborhoods w/o an HOA are shiatholes, I just said when the ass next door doesn't feel like keeping up their home, there's little to nothing that you can do about it except in extreme cases. Again, I don't support nonsense like what the HOA in the article did, but they can serve a purpose.
 
2007-09-13 02:45:21 PM  
I blame the no job havin' soccer moms. These harpies wanted us to pay for the "required" pool club membership which they did not mention when we looked into the HOA before buying the house. We have a pool (minus the precious little snowflakes running around it and the no glass rule) and so far I haven't paid them a farking dime, and they don't send me anything anymore.

/biatched about me tearing out the Bradford pears
//I planted two bigass Maples
///Threatened legal action until they realized the pears were well into my yard, not on the right of way
 
2007-09-13 02:45:42 PM  
threetoehoek: andrew131: threetoehoek: I like the idea that most of you idiots don't like HOA's so you won't move in next to me!

-Thank you HOA

Funny, some of the shiattiest neighborhoods I've seen all have those HOA signs posted everywhere.

Tell me, what happens when your neighborhood goes to shiat and you get thugs or mafia type people running your HOA? Bet you didn't think your cunning plan all the way through.


A management company runs the HOA.. where is your cute little "thought your cunning plan through" picture for me??


Are people elected at all?
 
2007-09-13 02:46:11 PM  
MadAsshatter: I never said all neighborhoods w/o an HOA are shiatholes, I just said when the ass next door doesn't feel like keeping up their home, there's little to nothing that you can do about it except in extreme cases.

Check up on your local ordinances. Pretty much anything a neighbor does in terms of property upkeep that will put a hurt on your property values is against local ordinances and can be solved by a 5-minute phone call to the county/city.

They'll come out, inspect, and fine until the problem is corrected.

An HOA is not necessary for that.
 
2007-09-13 02:46:40 PM  
Most people don't have a choice whether to live in an HOA neighborhood. This article is from Mesa. I am originally from Phoenix, and I was a homeowner in Chandler. I lived in a HOA neighborhood because the only non-HOA houses were either (1) in crime-infested slums or (2) horse properties. I don't want to live in a slum and I have no need for an acre or more horse property (and even if I did, I couldn't afford it). Thus, my only option was HOA.

For people in Phoenix, the middle, horseless class, the only option is HOA. I am sure many people don't want CC&R's and would like to be able to make changes to their home or yard without the paperwork and bureaucracy, but in growing states like Arizona, Utah, Nevada, and Idaho, new homeowners simply don't have a choice.

It is easy for people to be critical of buyers in HOA neighborhoods when they come from the Midwest or East coast and have plentiful non-HOA housing available to middle class buyers. In the new west, we don't have a choice. They suck. But what are you going to do?
 
2007-09-13 02:47:09 PM  
Kellner21: You don't want people farking with your property value?? Then don't build near people. Stop trying to make everyone do what you want them to do just for financial gain, you greedy motherfarker. Besides, your house is nowhere near worth what you think it is.

Or maybe you could find a group of other homeowners who feel the same way you do about community standards and enter into some kind of agreement amongst homeowners.
 
2007-09-13 02:47:21 PM  
Xanatos451

I know, wasted bytes. I forgot step 5 anyhow...

Step 5: Film the whole thing and PROFIT
 
2007-09-13 02:47:22 PM  
SpeedRacerX: The HOA prevented the latter and helped pay to clean up the exterior of the former.

Awesome, so instead of letting a private individual buy the property for cheap and improving it your HOA wasted money and you ended up paying for a portion of a home you'll never get to use. BRILLIANT!

threetoehoek: A management company runs the HOA.. where is your cute little "thought your cunning plan through" picture for me??

You're the one signing your property rights away to a company that is seeking profit. BRILLIANT!
 
2007-09-13 02:48:13 PM  
I have to jump on the band wagon...

Investment-level property is not your primary residence. An investment level property is one that generates cash flow. Your primary residence does not generate cash flow. (in most cases)

/not that my opinion matters.
 
2007-09-13 02:48:42 PM  
Fellows: And you see nothing fundamentally wrong with attempting to hold onto some form of property right long after you've signed your name off the deed?

Attempting to control others long after your hands have been washed of any form of control is the ultimate in power grabs.


No, I see nothing wrong with it, and neither have scholars on property law for literally centuries. Your characterization of this is totally false. Full land ownership (in fee simple) gives you the right to only give away portions of your property rights, and to reserve the rest. For instance, you could sell your land to someone, but only until that person dies. Once he dies, it goes back to your estate. That's not a "power grab," that's just the traditional understanding of property law.

It baffles me that people think that "it's my land and I can do anything with it that I want," but who also think that once someone is on the property that the rights of the other are terminated.
 
2007-09-13 02:49:29 PM  
So freedom for some, but not all.

Your freedom seems a little less free than mine. I'm free to form the society I choose. You're burdened with tolerance of everything allowable under natural law. Freedom means our freedonm from people like you. Disassociation. If you think about it, without the right of disassociation the rights under natural law don't mean very much. But don't let me confuse you with 9th grade philosophy.

You're not a plantation owner, are you?

Why?
 
2007-09-13 02:50:10 PM  
LocalCynic: For instance, you could sell your land to someone, but only until that person dies.

That's called leasing.

That's how it's done in Communist China. The government "sells" you the land, and it reverts back to their control when you die.

Why do you support Communism?
 
2007-09-13 02:51:03 PM  
Glad my current (first) house doesn't have an HOA. I'm definitely not the type of person that likes to have people tell me what to do or telling others what to do. I was fortunate enough to take advantage of the market falling. Also, the house I bought was the one on the block that all the HOA people are biatching about. Structurally sound but needed major cosmetic improvements - most of which I have taken care of.


I can't imagine wanting or needing an over-valued McMansion and worrying about my property value dropping off. The people in/buying into my neighborhood are not going to prioritize what kind of trees are in your front lawn. If/When I upgrade I just want more land!
 
2007-09-13 02:51:08 PM  
In communism, no individual owns anything, "the community", i.e. a scattered few who have power, collectively owns everything. That sounds like life under a HOA to me, comrade. DO NOT WANT!
 
2007-09-13 02:51:09 PM  
Fellows: If I have the money and I legally buy the lot, why shouldn't I be able to plot a double-wide down there? It's my land, not yours.

Absolutely true and the classic Land-of-the-Free argument against HOA's.

Except, all this land was previously owned by someone else. That person decided to pay substantial monies to develop it into a neighborhood with certain lot sizes and homes targetted at a certain price range with hopes of making a large profit. Knowing that homes in that range require value protection, this person only sold lots to homeowners and builders who agreed to abide by the rules of the development spelled out in the HOA agreement.

As you say, it was his land and therefore his right to development in that way.
 
2007-09-13 02:51:11 PM  
danlpoon: Your freedom seems a little less free than mine. I'm free to form the society I choose. You're burdened with tolerance of everything allowable under natural law. Freedom means our freedonm from people like you. Disassociation. If you think about it, without the right of disassociation the rights under natural law don't mean very much. But don't let me confuse you with 9th grade philosophy.

Looks like you failed your 9th grade course then.

danlpoon: Why?

Because I asked, I need some good lemons and grapefruit.
 
2007-09-13 02:51:29 PM  
Your primary residence does not generate cash flow.

I take equity out every now and then. Plus I charge people to bury dead hookers in my back yard.
 
2007-09-13 02:52:07 PM  
I understand the reason HOAs exist, it is to create sterile little suburbs with cookie cutter overpriced homes. They also take away the need to have personal responsibility and allow more ways of having someone telling us what to do, when to do it and how to do it.


The existance if HOAs are part of what is wrong with this country. No one wants to get to know their neigbors, and they want to live happy little lives protected from anything that threatens them from the outside and are perfectlly willing to hand freedom over just to live in a more sterile world. We want big brother of all forms to tell us how to live and what to do.
 
2007-09-13 02:52:10 PM  
SchlingFo: LocalCynic: For instance, you could sell your land to someone, but only until that person dies.

That's called leasing.

That's how it's done in Communist China. The government "sells" you the land, and it reverts back to their control when you die.

Why do you support Communism?


Because they're morons and don't know what the hell they're talking about.
 
2007-09-13 02:53:10 PM  
danlpoon: I take equity out every now and then. Plus I charge people to bury dead hookers in my back yard.

I bought my home on my credit card, am I doing it right?
 
2007-09-13 02:53:47 PM  
threetoehoek:

I hope I'm not attacked for this, but I expect it.

In your arguments, you seem to try and imply all those against HOAs are somehow teenagers with angst, or have that mentality. In the process you sorta make yourself sound young - at least a bit immature - with your name calling.

You've had great experiences with HOAs (I am assuming since you are very pro-HOA)

I've had HORRIBLE experiences - to the tune of $10K+ dollars to sue for money I'd never see. Hence I oppose them.

For those opposed, at least me, it comes down to not having control in the future. Sure you know the rules now, but wait until someone/some RULE is made that directly affects YOU. Like when in your HOA, enough RV owners pass a rule that you CAN park them on the street.
 
2007-09-13 02:53:53 PM  
YES! I finally get to post these apropos lyrics:
L: would of course be Larry
GC: should be self explanatory.

Narrator: There once was a boy
who lived in a house
and the house sat under a tree.

By the tree ran a fence
that stretched far and wide
'Round the Gated Community.

L: Can I have my ball?
Can you get my ball?
I kicked it into the tree.

L: And my ball bounced up
And my ball dropped in
To the Gated Community.

GC Chorus: Ohhh, the Gated Community is where we like to be
Everything's so lovely, Ohhh our hearts are filled with glee
And when you come to visit, you can stand outside and see
What a lovely bunch we are in our gated unity!

L: Umm, can I have my ball?
Can you get my ball?
I kicked it into the tree.

L: And my ball bounced up
And my ball dropped in
To the Gated Community.

GC Chorus: Ohhh, the Gated Community is where we like to be
Our clothes are never dirty, and the lawns are always green.
And when you come to visit, you can stand outside and see
What a tidy bunch we are in our gated unity!

The Gated Community we think you will agree
Is pleasantly devoid of unsightly stray debris.

Old Man: Free, free of debris.

GC Chorus: The Gated Community is where we love to be
Our smiles are wide when we're inside, in comfy custody
And when you come to visit, you can stand outside and see
What a smily bunch we are in our gated unity!

L: Can I have my ball?
Can you get my ball?
I kicked it into the tree.

L: And my ball bounced up
And my ball dropped in...


GC Chorus: The Gated Community is where we like to be
Our lives have been made perfect by a hefty entrance fee.
And when you come to visit, you can stand outside and see

L: To the Gated Commu...

GC Chorus: What a lovely bunch we are!

L: To the Gated Commu...

GC Chorus: What a happy bunch we are!

L: To the Gated Community!
GC Chorus: In our Gated Unity!
 
2007-09-13 02:54:01 PM  
andrew131: danlpoon: I take equity out every now and then. Plus I charge people to bury dead hookers in my back yard.

I bought my home on my credit card, am I doing it right?


It probably wont be any worse than the HOA loving sub prime borrowers.
 
2007-09-13 02:54:25 PM  
Fellows: Furthermore, sellers can agree to not sale a parcel of land to a buyer unless they abide by certain rules the seller arbitrarily decided, but - technically speaking - there's very little the seller can do if the buyer choses not to abide by the 'agreement' once his name is on the deed.

I missed this little tidbit, but I'll just point out that your statement is patently false. "Technically speaking," the law recognizes that the person who attaches conditions to a will has reserved his property rights in the form of a future interest. The land owner may reserve a right of re-entry, which allows him to go back on his property and reclaim title. Or, he may have the option to go back on the land, which he may or not enforce. This is basic first year law school stuff, and if you somehow think that it's "fascist" or "unconstitutional," then maybe you should do some research on the development of real property and future interests.
 
2007-09-13 02:54:30 PM  
andrew131: SpeedRacerX: The HOA prevented the latter and helped pay to clean up the exterior of the former.

Awesome, so instead of letting a private individual buy the property for cheap and improving it your HOA wasted money and you ended up paying for a portion of a home you'll never get to use. BRILLIANT!

threetoehoek: A management company runs the HOA.. where is your cute little "thought your cunning plan through" picture for me??

You're the one signing your property rights away to a company that is seeking profit. BRILLIANT!


Signing my "property rights" away.. hardly. You people really are so hung up on freedom, righteousness and your own smarmy sense of "whats right" that you can't make an educated decision on anything. Stop being 20 and thinking you're above everything for 10 mins please.
 
2007-09-13 02:55:13 PM  
boobsrgood: If HOA's are such a bad idea, how do you suggest handling the idiot who turns his house into a craphole that knocks $50k off the asking price for ten of his neighbors?

Seriously, how?


They're called Public Ordinances.

/they already exist
 
2007-09-13 02:55:37 PM  
tweekster: It probably wont be any worse than the HOA loving sub prime borrowers.

Woo hoo! I get to spend 120% of my income!
 
2007-09-13 02:55:44 PM  
From TFA - Apache Wells is a retirement community where some of the original manufactured homes sit next to large custom stucco houses.

All you need to know.
 
2007-09-13 02:55:48 PM  
I bought my home on my credit card, am I doing it right?

So long as you transfer the balances to lower interest introductory rates you'll be fine. Enjoy the good life Mr. Homeowner. The money falls off trees from here on out!

Looks like you failed your 9th grade course then.

Good one, Hemingway.
 
2007-09-13 02:56:19 PM  
LocalCynic: No, I see nothing wrong with it, and neither have scholars on property law for literally centuries. Your characterization of this is totally false. Full land ownership (in fee simple) gives you the right to only give away portions of your property rights, and to reserve the rest. For instance, you could sell your land to someone, but only until that person dies. Once he dies, it goes back to your estate. That's not a "power grab," that's just the traditional understanding of property law.

It baffles me that people think that "it's my land and I can do anything with it that I want," but who also think that once someone is on the property that the rights of the other are terminated.


My legal forté is not the history of property rights, I admit. But only a fool would purchase a parcel of land with the full understanding that the land transfers back to the seller upon death and not to the benefactors of his choosing.
 
2007-09-13 02:56:49 PM  
threetoehoek: You people really are so hung up on freedom,

Yup, the whole Constitution and idea of "rights" are SOOOO overrated.

You're a smart one.
 
2007-09-13 02:57:23 PM  
danlpoon: Your primary residence does not generate cash flow.

I take equity out every now and then. Plus I charge people to bury dead hookers in my back yard.


Equity is not free money.

The hooker thing probably does generate cash flow.
 
2007-09-13 02:57:35 PM  
Had a friend with a beachfront (seafront, I guess would be a better term) condo that was part of a large HOA which included several neighboring condo developments. Most of the developments were built very close to the cliff while my friend's was (quite smartly) built about 100 feet back from the cliff. While the communities to the north and south built right up to the cliff (within 10'), my friend's community built way back and put a garden between the condos and the cliff. No big deal of they lose a few plants every year. Said cliff was creeping back at about 6-9 inches per year so they were good for at least a century.

A neighboring development decided it was time to build a seawall because some of their units were in danger of falling into the sea. I believe the bill was going to be around $20,000 per unit. Even the units in the community that was built back from the cliff and wouldn't need a seawall for another hundred years would have to pay. Friend sold fast.

The new owner wasn't too worried about an extra $20,000. I wonder if he'll be as unconcerned when the next seawall goes up in a few years and he has to pay $25,000. Then $30,000 a few years after that. All the while, never paying for (or needing) a seawall to protect his own community.
 
2007-09-13 02:58:46 PM  
boobsrgood

GODDAMMIT that's not how it works. Have any of you actually seen appraisals?
 
2007-09-13 02:59:03 PM  
That's called leasing.

Or a Life Estate if your not a raging, spittle-wiping moron like Andrew131.

It's the basis for reverse mortgages, sort of.
 
2007-09-13 02:59:38 PM  
danlpoon:

Looks like you failed your 9th grade course then.

Good one, Hemingway.


Thanks, I appreciate the applause.
 
2007-09-13 02:59:48 PM  
Recently married, looking to buy a home on the west coast (cali,oregon,washington)


IMPOSSIBLE to find a tolerable house out here, in a populated area that isn't HOA owned, and doesnt require an EXTRA 1500 a month in HOA fees. So.... not buying a house in Cali.


Theres no way in hell, im paying 2k a month for a mortgage, plus electricity,water, garbage pickup, property tax, AND 1500 HOA rape fee... just not gonna happen.
 
2007-09-13 02:59:51 PM  
andrew131: Yup, the whole Constitution and idea of "rights" are SOOOO overrated.

I love America's Frog Soup Mentality™...

The attitude about HOAs in these threads speaks volumes about what kind of state/national government folks prefer these days...
 
2007-09-13 03:00:00 PM  
SchlingFo: LocalCynic: For instance, you could sell your land to someone, but only until that person dies.

That's called leasing.


No, it's called a "life estate," as opposed to a sale in fee simple.

A lease is generally understood as the right to land for a set term of years. The use of land for life is not in a set term of years, so it's not a lease.

That's how it's done in Communist China. The government "sells" you the land, and it reverts back to their control when you die.

If the state owns the land, they have the right to sell the land to you outright, or to sell you the right to live there until you die. If you die and your children or spouse won't leave, then they're trespassing. Whether you're talking about the state or a person, the right to property includes the right to alienate or devise it.
 
2007-09-13 03:00:12 PM  
Fellows: SpeedRacerX: Don't fark with _my_ home value and we will get along just fine. :-)

You have no right to a fixed home value, whereas your neighbors have plenty of property rights.


I never claimed to have a right. I just said don't fark with it if you want to get along. :-)

A for my neighbors, they signed the same agreement as a part of their business deal. If you don't want be a part of that business agreement then buy a lot from someone else.
 
2007-09-13 03:00:26 PM  
danlpoon: Or a Life Estate if your not a raging, spittle-wiping moron like Andrew131.

Yes, property rights are SOOO moronic. You're very good at name calling, have you considered a political career?
 
2007-09-13 03:00:48 PM  
If HOA's are such a bed idea, how do you suggest handling the idiot who turns his house into a craphole that knocks $50k off the asking price for ten of his neighbors?

That's why we have by-laws to make sure people don't turn their house into craphole.
Guess that doesn't exist in the States.
 
2007-09-13 03:01:24 PM  
Equity is not free money.,

If I set it free and it comes back is it free?

The hooker thing probably does generate cash flow.

I have franchise opportunities. E-mail me.
 
2007-09-13 03:02:16 PM  
woodstock827: If HOA's are such a bed idea, how do you suggest handling the idiot who turns his house into a craphole that knocks $50k off the asking price for ten of his neighbors?

That's why we have by-laws to make sure people don't turn their house into craphole.
Guess that doesn't exist in the States.


We do, its just that people are such pussies that dont want to have any confrontation in their lives and generally like to avoid being adults and dealing with problems themselves.

In fact I think that is the mission statement of most HOAs
 
2007-09-13 03:02:34 PM  
woodstock827: Guess that doesn't exist in the States.

They do, but if a neighbor is violating them, it requires a 2-minute phone call to the county to let them know about it.

We're lazy here in the U.S., so we'd rather pay a couple of hundred bucks a month to ensure we'll never have to make that 2-minute phone call.
 
2007-09-13 03:03:50 PM  
sell sell sell
 
2007-09-13 03:04:13 PM  
danlpoon: Equity is not free money.,

If I set it free and it comes back is it free?

The hooker thing probably does generate cash flow.

I have franchise opportunities. E-mail me.


No it loves you if it come back. Or something like that.

/Have been looking at Franchises.
//As a business owner I would have to say that buying a franchise is much like buying a home with an HOA
 
2007-09-13 03:04:27 PM  
Yes, property rights are SOOO moronic.

You wouldn't know a Life Estate from a Qualified Personal Residence Trust from a Future Springing Executory Interest if it slithered up your too-tight, low-rise, girl's Levi's and stung you on your lonely cock.

Go.
 
2007-09-13 03:04:33 PM  
johne3819: threetoehoek:

I hope I'm not attacked for this, but I expect it.

In your arguments, you seem to try and imply all those against HOAs are somehow teenagers with angst, or have that mentality. In the process you sorta make yourself sound young - at least a bit immature - with your name calling.

You've had great experiences with HOAs (I am assuming since you are very pro-HOA)

I've had HORRIBLE experiences - to the tune of $10K+ dollars to sue for money I'd never see. Hence I oppose them.

For those opposed, at least me, it comes down to not having control in the future. Sure you know the rules now, but wait until someone/some RULE is made that directly affects YOU. Like when in your HOA, enough RV owners pass a rule that you CAN park them on the street.


No doubt I sound like an idiot but there is something to be said for lowering yourself to the company you keep.. You have every right to dislike HOA's for the bad situation they put you in just like I have every right to support them for the postive experiences I've had. What I dislike about these "HOA" threads is the little 20 kids who have NO experience with HOA's come in, get on their high horse and represent the argument that this has something to do with "Freedom, liberty and the American way!". And that HOA's are akin to Hitler! Which is simply not the case at all. Thats what I get pissy and argumentative about.
 
Displayed 50 of 389 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | » | Last | Show all



This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report